Not sure if it was mentioned or not but to save my self from 5 pages of comments lol.
Say the target is already under the effects of booming blade. So its already has the damaging energy on it. the creature decides to move thus instantly setting off booming blade damage. If I have war caster right after it takes the damage because it decided to move and i use my attack of op to use booming blade again. Shouldn't it take another set of movement damage since its still moving?
Correct.
They start moving - the old Booming Blade booms.
They leave your reach - provoking an opportunity attack - you apply Booming Blade.
They're still moving - they go boom again.
The main discussion in this thread is around point 3: Whether the enemy can choose to stop running because they know the effect will hurt if they continue to move. It's especially an issue in this instance because they've already been hurt by it once and know what to expect.
I would have to disagree. Opportunity attacks specifically occur before their trigger. The trigger is moving/using movement. The trigger for booming blade is (mostly) the same. So the order should be:
They choose/start to move out of reach
Provoke opportunity attack (sub spell or not)
They move and go boom once.
As you say, some debate on point 3 as to whether they can choose to not move after taking the attack.
except you get your attack of op while they're moving away so movement already has to be occurring. And booming blades trigger is any movement. I'd think they'd have to drop their guard and take a step before your attack of op otherwise its saying hey i'm gonna drop my guard and move please hit me before i move anywhere thanks. That's not how a real battle would go lol
Not sure if it was mentioned or not but to save my self from 5 pages of comments lol.
Say the target is already under the effects of booming blade. So its already has the damaging energy on it. the creature decides to move thus instantly setting off booming blade damage. If I have war caster right after it takes the damage because it decided to move and i use my attack of op to use booming blade again. Shouldn't it take another set of movement damage since its still moving?
Correct.
They start moving - the old Booming Blade booms.
They leave your reach - provoking an opportunity attack - you apply Booming Blade.
They're still moving - they go boom again.
The main discussion in this thread is around point 3: Whether the enemy can choose to stop running because they know the effect will hurt if they continue to move. It's especially an issue in this instance because they've already been hurt by it once and know what to expect.
I would have to disagree. Opportunity attacks specifically occur before their trigger. The trigger is moving/using movement. The trigger for booming blade is (mostly) the same. So the order should be:
They choose/start to move out of reach
Provoke opportunity attack (sub spell or not)
They move and go boom once.
As you say, some debate on point 3 as to whether they can choose to not move after taking the attack.
except you get your attack of op while they're moving away so movement already has to be occurring. And booming blades trigger is any movement. I'd think they'd have to drop their guard and take a step before your attack of op otherwise its saying hey i'm gonna drop my guard and move please hit me before i move anywhere thanks. That's not how a real battle would go lol
The trigger is not "any movement." It's expenditure of the movement statistic. Characters have to move to make an attack (swinging a sword involves movement). That doesn't trigger Booming Blade, because what triggers Booming Blade is spending your movement. If you're not spending movement, you're not willingly moving (I leave open the possibility of some specific feature that creates an exception, but in general...). Attacks of Opportunity explicitly occur before that movement has been spent (as an exception to how reactions normally work), and there is no rule that compels anyone to still move after having been hit by an AoO.
Not sure if it was mentioned or not but to save my self from 5 pages of comments lol.
Say the target is already under the effects of booming blade. So its already has the damaging energy on it. the creature decides to move thus instantly setting off booming blade damage. If I have war caster right after it takes the damage because it decided to move and i use my attack of op to use booming blade again. Shouldn't it take another set of movement damage since its still moving?
Correct.
They start moving - the old Booming Blade booms.
They leave your reach - provoking an opportunity attack - you apply Booming Blade.
They're still moving - they go boom again.
The main discussion in this thread is around point 3: Whether the enemy can choose to stop running because they know the effect will hurt if they continue to move. It's especially an issue in this instance because they've already been hurt by it once and know what to expect.
I would have to disagree. Opportunity attacks specifically occur before their trigger. The trigger is moving/using movement. The trigger for booming blade is (mostly) the same. So the order should be:
They choose/start to move out of reach
Provoke opportunity attack (sub spell or not)
They move and go boom once.
As you say, some debate on point 3 as to whether they can choose to not move after taking the attack.
except you get your attack of op while they're moving away so movement already has to be occurring. And booming blades trigger is any movement. I'd think they'd have to drop their guard and take a step before your attack of op otherwise its saying hey i'm gonna drop my guard and move please hit me before i move anywhere thanks. That's not how a real battle would go lol
The trigger is not "any movement." It's expenditure of the movement statistic. Characters have to move to make an attack (swinging a sword involves movement). That doesn't trigger Booming Blade, because what triggers Booming Blade is spending your movement. If you're not spending movement, you're not willingly moving (I leave open the possibility of some specific feature that creates an exception, but in general...). Attacks of Opportunity explicitly occur before that movement has been spent (as an exception to how reactions normally work), and there is no rule that compels anyone to still move after having been hit by an AoO.
well normally you grab the token saying he/she is going to...move... thus creating an attack of op so go ahead and make it. Who has them make attack of op before the enemy does anything? what sense does that make? If that's the case you should be able to use your reaction whenever to just make an attack since nothing is causing the attack of op. With attack of op they have to be attempting to leave your area thus requires movement kinda gets around attacks like this if you just say hes gonna move so make an attack without the enemy doing anything.
So they have booming blade on they move perhaps 1foot of movement so they're not open to an attack of op then they get war casted and another booming blade is placed on them since they're still moving it goes off immediately. You could argue if the enemy was somewhat smart they would notice that the movement caused the thunder damage to tick and after receiving the attack of op they chose to stop however those who aren't smart or trained in arcana would have no idea whats going on.
well normally you grab the token saying he/she is going to...move... thus creating an attack of op so go ahead and make it. Who has them make attack of op before the enemy does anything? what sense does that make? If that's the case you should be able to use your reaction whenever to just make an attack since nothing is causing the attack of op. With attack of op they have to be attempting to leave your area thus requires movement kinda gets around attacks like this if you just say hes gonna move so make an attack without the enemy doing anything.
So they have booming blade on they move perhaps 1foot of movement so they're not open to an attack of op then they get war casted and another booming blade is placed on them since they're still moving it goes off immediately. You could argue if the enemy was somewhat smart they would notice that the movement caused the thunder damage to tick and after receiving the attack of op they chose to stop however those who aren't smart or trained in arcana would have no idea whats going on.
It is just the rules. The OA occurs before the triggering movement. In theatre of the mind, this may be after they moved 1 foot and before they move 5. On a grid, it is before they moved 1 space.
And either grid or no, there is no rule requiring them to commit to movement after the AO.
This is just how the rules are. No one here has the power to change that.
well normally you grab the token saying he/she is going to...move... thus creating an attack of op so go ahead and make it. Who has them make attack of op before the enemy does anything? what sense does that make? If that's the case you should be able to use your reaction whenever to just make an attack since nothing is causing the attack of op. With attack of op they have to be attempting to leave your area thus requires movement kinda gets around attacks like this if you just say hes gonna move so make an attack without the enemy doing anything.
So they have booming blade on they move perhaps 1foot of movement so they're not open to an attack of op then they get war casted and another booming blade is placed on them since they're still moving it goes off immediately. You could argue if the enemy was somewhat smart they would notice that the movement caused the thunder damage to tick and after receiving the attack of op they chose to stop however those who aren't smart or trained in arcana would have no idea whats going on.
It is just the rules. The OA occurs before the triggering movement. In theatre of the mind, this may be after they moved 1 foot and before they move 5. On a grid, it is before they moved 1 space.
And either grid or no, there is no rule requiring them to commit to movement after the AO.
This is just how the rules are. No one here has the power to change that.
Opportunity Attacks
In a fight, everyone is constantly watching for a chance to strike an enemy who is fleeing or passing by. Such a strike is called an opportunity attack.
You can make an opportunity attack when a hostile creature that you can see moves out of your reach. To make the opportunity attack, you use your reaction to make one melee attack against the provoking creature. The attack occurs right before the creature leaves your reach.
The direct definition from dnd beyond website. attacks of op require movement since it costs at least 5 feet of movement to leave your space the effects of booming blade will trigger and they continue moving it will trigger again. However, it can be argued you're hitting them while they're currently moving they don't stop to take a hit from you so they already have forward momentum willingly caused by them which would set off the war cast booming blade as well.
well normally you grab the token saying he/she is going to...move... thus creating an attack of op so go ahead and make it. Who has them make attack of op before the enemy does anything? what sense does that make? If that's the case you should be able to use your reaction whenever to just make an attack since nothing is causing the attack of op. With attack of op they have to be attempting to leave your area thus requires movement kinda gets around attacks like this if you just say hes gonna move so make an attack without the enemy doing anything.
So they have booming blade on they move perhaps 1foot of movement so they're not open to an attack of op then they get war casted and another booming blade is placed on them since they're still moving it goes off immediately. You could argue if the enemy was somewhat smart they would notice that the movement caused the thunder damage to tick and after receiving the attack of op they chose to stop however those who aren't smart or trained in arcana would have no idea whats going on.
It is just the rules. The OA occurs before the triggering movement. In theatre of the mind, this may be after they moved 1 foot and before they move 5. On a grid, it is before they moved 1 space.
And either grid or no, there is no rule requiring them to commit to movement after the AO.
This is just how the rules are. No one here has the power to change that.
Opportunity Attacks
In a fight, everyone is constantly watching for a chance to strike an enemy who is fleeing or passing by. Such a strike is called an opportunity attack.
You can make an opportunity attack when a hostile creature that you can see moves out of your reach. To make the opportunity attack, you use your reaction to make one melee attack against the provoking creature. The attack occurs right before the creature leaves your reach.
The direct definition from dnd beyond website. attacks of op require movement since it costs at least 5 feet of movement to leave your space the effects of booming blade will trigger and they continue moving it will trigger again. However, it can be argued you're hitting them while they're currently moving they don't stop to take a hit from you so they already have forward momentum willingly caused by them which would set off the war cast booming blade as well.
If they have used 5 feet of movement, they are 10 feet away and put of reach of your attacks. That is why OA occur before they leave your range. If the attack occurs before they leave range, then they have moved 0 squares on a grid at that point and used 0 movement.
The rules also say nothing of momentum. There is no reason they can't stop immediately when hit.
Basically, it comes down to the fact that it is a game and not reality. A game with somewhat poorly written rules no less.
well normally you grab the token saying he/she is going to...move... thus creating an attack of op so go ahead and make it. Who has them make attack of op before the enemy does anything? what sense does that make? If that's the case you should be able to use your reaction whenever to just make an attack since nothing is causing the attack of op. With attack of op they have to be attempting to leave your area thus requires movement kinda gets around attacks like this if you just say hes gonna move so make an attack without the enemy doing anything.
So they have booming blade on they move perhaps 1foot of movement so they're not open to an attack of op then they get war casted and another booming blade is placed on them since they're still moving it goes off immediately. You could argue if the enemy was somewhat smart they would notice that the movement caused the thunder damage to tick and after receiving the attack of op they chose to stop however those who aren't smart or trained in arcana would have no idea whats going on.
It is just the rules. The OA occurs before the triggering movement. In theatre of the mind, this may be after they moved 1 foot and before they move 5. On a grid, it is before they moved 1 space.
And either grid or no, there is no rule requiring them to commit to movement after the AO.
This is just how the rules are. No one here has the power to change that.
Opportunity Attacks
In a fight, everyone is constantly watching for a chance to strike an enemy who is fleeing or passing by. Such a strike is called an opportunity attack.
You can make an opportunity attack when a hostile creature that you can see moves out of your reach. To make the opportunity attack, you use your reaction to make one melee attack against the provoking creature. The attack occurs right before the creature leaves your reach.
The direct definition from dnd beyond website. attacks of op require movement since it costs at least 5 feet of movement to leave your space the effects of booming blade will trigger and they continue moving it will trigger again. However, it can be argued you're hitting them while they're currently moving they don't stop to take a hit from you so they already have forward momentum willingly caused by them which would set off the war cast booming blade as well.
If they have used 5 feet of movement, they are 10 feet away and put of reach of your attacks. That is why OA occur before they leave your range. If the attack occurs before they leave range, then they have moved 0 squares on a grid at that point and used 0 movement.
The rules also say nothing of momentum. There is no reason they can't stop immediately when hit.
Basically, it comes down to the fact that it is a game and not reality. A game with somewhat poorly written rules no less.
Basically, CCGOD is up to speed on like 85% of the entire thread now. Two points to add to this subsection: first, if the DM rules that the existing booming blade hasn't gone off before the AoO triggers, a second application of Booming Blade would overwrite the first, as per the PHB: Casting a Spell, heading:
Combining Magical Effects
The effects of different spells add together while the durations of those spells overlap. The effects of the same spell cast multiple times don't combine, however. Instead, the most potent effect — such as the highest bonus — from those castings applies while their durations overlap, or the most recent effect applies if the castings are equally potent and their durations overlap.
Thus a normal AoO would be just as effective as another casting of Booming Blade unless the character is at least 5th level when the bonus damage starts kicking in.
2nd, that entire point would be moot if you have a reach weapon and the enemy was in an adjacent space. The original Booming Blade would go off moving from 5 to 10 ft away, but there would be no AoO trigger (unless the character was dual wielding and had a whip and another 5 ft reach weapon, but let's not reopen that can of worms). The enemy could then stop or continue moving. If the enemy continues moving at is about to move from 10 ft to 15 ft, an AoO trigger will occur and a character with Warcaster may choose to cast a spell instead. A new sheathing Boom would be added.
Argument A says that the enemy may now choose to stop and prevent the damage from occurring.
Argument B says that the enemy may not stop, but that the movement isn't voluntary at this point. The creature may stop in the next square or may continue moving and incur the Boom.
Argument C says that the enemy may not stop and will incur the Boom.
And that likely brings us up to speed, or at least 95% of the thread.
Which is why the wording should say moves 5ft. Otherwise you're saying a character can move to flank you without booming blade going off since moving around someone doesn't cost movement. I'd say youd have to spend at least 5ft if you declare that they're going to move away from someone thus invoking that attack of op. Which would cause bb to go off twice if you reapplied it with another bb.
And if they decided to stop moving once they got hit then they wouldn't be out of your reach meaning you couldnt get an attack of OP anyway.. and as the rule states you're hitting them WHILE they're moving out of your reach so they're still moving when the bb is applied the 2nd time and should cause it to go off again.
Which is why the wording should say moves 5ft. Otherwise you're saying a character can move to flank you without booming blade going off since moving around someone doesn't cost movement.
Umm, yes it does.
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I sing to life and to its tragic beauty To pain and to strife, but all that dances through me The rise and the fall, I've lived through it all!
If the enemy continues moving at is about to move from 10 ft to 15 ft, an AoO trigger will occur and a character with Warcaster may choose to cast a spell instead. A new sheathing Boom would be added.
Booming blade has a range of 5 feet, so you can't use it for OA at 10 feet.
If the enemy continues moving at is about to move from 10 ft to 15 ft, an AoO trigger will occur and a character with Warcaster may choose to cast a spell instead. A new sheathing Boom would be added.
Booming blade has a range of 5 feet, so you can't use it for OA at 10 feet.
Spell Sniper or Metamagic required. I knew I was forgetting something.
Which is why the wording should say moves 5ft. Otherwise you're saying a character can move to flank you without booming blade going off since moving around someone doesn't cost movement.
Which is why the wording should say moves 5ft. Otherwise you're saying a character can move to flank you without booming blade going off since moving around someone doesn't cost movement. I'd say youd have to spend at least 5ft if you declare that they're going to move away from someone thus invoking that attack of op. Which would cause bb to go off twice if you reapplied it with another bb.
And if they decided to stop moving once they got hit then they wouldn't be out of your reach meaning you couldnt get an attack of OP anyway.. and as the rule states you're hitting them WHILE they're moving out of your reach so they're still moving when the bb is applied the 2nd time and should cause it to go off again.
Ophidimancer got the first one. As for the second point, it depends on when the DM rules that Booming Blade goes off. I'm only stating it like that for this thread because that's been one of the cruxes of most of the discussion. If the ruling is Booming Blade triggers and then AoO, there is no issue. If it's the other way around, the sheathing effect can't stack and only the effects of the new Booming Blade will be in effect.
Also, I forgot to mention that Booming Blade would need Spell Sniper or Metamagic to be applied outside of the 5 ft range. DxJxC pointed that out and I replied there, but figured I'd also mention it here.
There have been a few Sage Advice posts on Booming Blade. SA and the Sage Advice Compendium draw particular ire here in the Rules forum because they aren't RAW, but RAI. If you are the DM, consider them when making your ruling much as you would any of the arguments in the forums, perhaps placing more weight on them since it is Jeremy Crawford depending on how you feel about that fact. However, they aren't RAW, so they aren't strictly necessary to follow without delving into homebrew.
Flanking does use movement. If a character voluntarily moves from one square to another, Booming Blade triggers regardless of whether an AoO would be triggered. If there is no movement outside of the square, such as attacks, jumping jacks, standing up from being probe, etc, there is no Boom.
There have been a few Sage Advice posts on Booming Blade. SA and the Sage Advice Compendium draw particular ire here in the Rules forum because they aren't RAW, but RAI. If you are the DM, consider them when making your ruling much as you would any of the arguments in the forums, perhaps placing more weight on them since it is Jeremy Crawford depending on how you feel about that fact. However, they aren't RAW, so they aren't strictly necessary to follow without delving into homebrew.
Just to be clear, are you suggesting that Rules as Intended, Rules as Fun, or Rules as Whatever are any less appropriate for this subforum than Rules as Written?
Yes, elsewise we wouldn't be debating the interaction of rules... and instead just going with whatever we felt. (Though there has been pages and pages of repetition and reaffirming of the same points... to the point that it has essentially boiled down to an opinion thing anyway)
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There have been a few Sage Advice posts on Booming Blade. SA and the Sage Advice Compendium draw particular ire here in the Rules forum because they aren't RAW, but RAI. If you are the DM, consider them when making your ruling much as you would any of the arguments in the forums, perhaps placing more weight on them since it is Jeremy Crawford depending on how you feel about that fact. However, they aren't RAW, so they aren't strictly necessary to follow without delving into homebrew.
Just to be clear, are you suggesting that Rules as Intended, Rules as Fun, or Rules as Whatever are any less appropriate for this subforum than Rules as Written?
Nope. Acknowledging that some people seem to feel that way whenever they are brought up. I wouldn't mention it if I thought it was inappropriate for the forum. I think it's very appropriate to consider RAI. Other DMs disagree. Knowing both is helpful.
Which is why the wording should say moves 5ft. Otherwise you're saying a character can move to flank you without booming blade going off since moving around someone doesn't cost movement.
Umm, yes it does.
yes what does?
Moving around someone to flank them very much does cost movement, even if you don't move out of their reach.
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I sing to life and to its tragic beauty To pain and to strife, but all that dances through me The rise and the fall, I've lived through it all!
Unless a feature says that it doesn't use movement, moving always costs movement... What you are thinking of is that you do not provoke Opportunity Attacks when moving withina creature's reach.
And if they decided to stop moving once they got hit then they wouldn't be out of your reach meaning you couldnt get an attack of OP anyway.. and as the rule states you're hitting them WHILE they're moving out of your reach so they're still moving when the bb is applied the 2nd time and should cause it to go off again.
As has been stated clearly multiple times now, there is no paradox of causation. OAs are not provoked by a creature actually moving a set amount of distance; they are provoked by a creature in the process of moving away from an enemy creature without the proper use of the Disengage action. An OA is provoked while each creature is still in their original positions. An OA is executed while each creature is still in their original positions. The typical result of completing an OA is that the provoking creature continues their turn by crossing into the next square. They don't necessarily have to continue moving, and it does not create a chronological paradox if they don't keep moving.
I think the bar--for either a DM or player--to make the decision to not keep moving after taking an OA must be very high, but not impossible. The rationale for a creature to knowingly do something dangerous (provoking an OA), and then changing their mind after suffering the consequences (but not the reward) of their decision needs to believable. It's a roleplaying game after all.
I agree with this. 5e design philosophy is terribly bi-polar. We've got so many aspects of the actual game system that are written with broad strokes. Simple writing is great, and writing things in a way that the average person can follow is also great... if it's consistent. Movement, movement in combat, and movement-triggered effects are (IMO) the worst offenders. It's one of the most important foundational sections, yet it's also the most vague. There are so many spells/abilities/features that depend on absurdly-specific movement scenarios that are not ever defined in the basic rules they purport to depend on.
I think one of the reasons they avoid talking about movement triggers as explicitly 5ft, 10ft, etc is because 'Theater of the Mind' is still a common thing for a lot of groups, and there's nothing in the rules mandating that movement only be in 5ft chunks. The smallest increment of movement I've seen the books reference is 1 foot, but that's not a mandated increment either. The designers really need to understand that while simplicity and intentional vagueness can be good things, the entire product needs to be contained within a cohesive tier of granularity. If they want to have the rules on movement be relatively vague, they can't have other things rely on an aspect of those rules which are not defined.
Which comes back to one of your questions... if a creature is already under the effect of BB, decides to run & provoke an OA (which the enemy will use to cast BB again), does the original BB trigger before the OA? Yes. If they begin to move away from an enemy in melee range, prior to provoking the OA, they've moved. Even if it's just 1 foot of movement within the same square. Boom. Nobody can argue with that. They keep moving to the edge of their square to leave the other creature's reach. They trigger an OA from the enemy creature, and that creature casts BB again. The creature decides to keep moving out of the enemy's reach. Boom again.
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except you get your attack of op while they're moving away so movement already has to be occurring. And booming blades trigger is any movement. I'd think they'd have to drop their guard and take a step before your attack of op otherwise its saying hey i'm gonna drop my guard and move please hit me before i move anywhere thanks. That's not how a real battle would go lol
The trigger is not "any movement." It's expenditure of the movement statistic. Characters have to move to make an attack (swinging a sword involves movement). That doesn't trigger Booming Blade, because what triggers Booming Blade is spending your movement. If you're not spending movement, you're not willingly moving (I leave open the possibility of some specific feature that creates an exception, but in general...). Attacks of Opportunity explicitly occur before that movement has been spent (as an exception to how reactions normally work), and there is no rule that compels anyone to still move after having been hit by an AoO.
What SagaTympana said.
well normally you grab the token saying he/she is going to...move... thus creating an attack of op so go ahead and make it. Who has them make attack of op before the enemy does anything? what sense does that make? If that's the case you should be able to use your reaction whenever to just make an attack since nothing is causing the attack of op. With attack of op they have to be attempting to leave your area thus requires movement kinda gets around attacks like this if you just say hes gonna move so make an attack without the enemy doing anything.
So they have booming blade on they move perhaps 1foot of movement so they're not open to an attack of op then they get war casted and another booming blade is placed on them since they're still moving it goes off immediately. You could argue if the enemy was somewhat smart they would notice that the movement caused the thunder damage to tick and after receiving the attack of op they chose to stop however those who aren't smart or trained in arcana would have no idea whats going on.
It is just the rules. The OA occurs before the triggering movement. In theatre of the mind, this may be after they moved 1 foot and before they move 5. On a grid, it is before they moved 1 space.
And either grid or no, there is no rule requiring them to commit to movement after the AO.
This is just how the rules are. No one here has the power to change that.
Opportunity Attacks
In a fight, everyone is constantly watching for a chance to strike an enemy who is fleeing or passing by. Such a strike is called an opportunity attack.
You can make an opportunity attack when a hostile creature that you can see moves out of your reach. To make the opportunity attack, you use your reaction to make one melee attack against the provoking creature. The attack occurs right before the creature leaves your reach.
The direct definition from dnd beyond website. attacks of op require movement since it costs at least 5 feet of movement to leave your space the effects of booming blade will trigger and they continue moving it will trigger again. However, it can be argued you're hitting them while they're currently moving they don't stop to take a hit from you so they already have forward momentum willingly caused by them which would set off the war cast booming blade as well.
If they have used 5 feet of movement, they are 10 feet away and put of reach of your attacks. That is why OA occur before they leave your range. If the attack occurs before they leave range, then they have moved 0 squares on a grid at that point and used 0 movement.
The rules also say nothing of momentum. There is no reason they can't stop immediately when hit.
Basically, it comes down to the fact that it is a game and not reality. A game with somewhat poorly written rules no less.
Basically, CCGOD is up to speed on like 85% of the entire thread now. Two points to add to this subsection: first, if the DM rules that the existing booming blade hasn't gone off before the AoO triggers, a second application of Booming Blade would overwrite the first, as per the PHB: Casting a Spell, heading:
Combining Magical Effects
The effects of different spells add together while the durations of those spells overlap. The effects of the same spell cast multiple times don't combine, however. Instead, the most potent effect — such as the highest bonus — from those castings applies while their durations overlap, or the most recent effect applies if the castings are equally potent and their durations overlap.
Thus a normal AoO would be just as effective as another casting of Booming Blade unless the character is at least 5th level when the bonus damage starts kicking in.
2nd, that entire point would be moot if you have a reach weapon and the enemy was in an adjacent space. The original Booming Blade would go off moving from 5 to 10 ft away, but there would be no AoO trigger (unless the character was dual wielding and had a whip and another 5 ft reach weapon, but let's not reopen that can of worms). The enemy could then stop or continue moving. If the enemy continues moving at is about to move from 10 ft to 15 ft, an AoO trigger will occur and a character with Warcaster may choose to cast a spell instead. A new sheathing Boom would be added.
Argument A says that the enemy may now choose to stop and prevent the damage from occurring.
Argument B says that the enemy may not stop, but that the movement isn't voluntary at this point. The creature may stop in the next square or may continue moving and incur the Boom.
Argument C says that the enemy may not stop and will incur the Boom.
And that likely brings us up to speed, or at least 95% of the thread.
Which is why the wording should say moves 5ft. Otherwise you're saying a character can move to flank you without booming blade going off since moving around someone doesn't cost movement. I'd say youd have to spend at least 5ft if you declare that they're going to move away from someone thus invoking that attack of op. Which would cause bb to go off twice if you reapplied it with another bb.
And if they decided to stop moving once they got hit then they wouldn't be out of your reach meaning you couldnt get an attack of OP anyway.. and as the rule states you're hitting them WHILE they're moving out of your reach so they're still moving when the bb is applied the 2nd time and should cause it to go off again.
Umm, yes it does.
Canto alla vita
alla sua bellezza
ad ogni sua ferita
ogni sua carezza!
I sing to life and to its tragic beauty
To pain and to strife, but all that dances through me
The rise and the fall, I've lived through it all!
Booming blade has a range of 5 feet, so you can't use it for OA at 10 feet.
Spell Sniper or Metamagic required. I knew I was forgetting something.
yes what does?
Ophidimancer got the first one. As for the second point, it depends on when the DM rules that Booming Blade goes off. I'm only stating it like that for this thread because that's been one of the cruxes of most of the discussion. If the ruling is Booming Blade triggers and then AoO, there is no issue. If it's the other way around, the sheathing effect can't stack and only the effects of the new Booming Blade will be in effect.
Also, I forgot to mention that Booming Blade would need Spell Sniper or Metamagic to be applied outside of the 5 ft range. DxJxC pointed that out and I replied there, but figured I'd also mention it here.
There have been a few Sage Advice posts on Booming Blade. SA and the Sage Advice Compendium draw particular ire here in the Rules forum because they aren't RAW, but RAI. If you are the DM, consider them when making your ruling much as you would any of the arguments in the forums, perhaps placing more weight on them since it is Jeremy Crawford depending on how you feel about that fact. However, they aren't RAW, so they aren't strictly necessary to follow without delving into homebrew.
Flanking does use movement. If a character voluntarily moves from one square to another, Booming Blade triggers regardless of whether an AoO would be triggered. If there is no movement outside of the square, such as attacks, jumping jacks, standing up from being probe, etc, there is no Boom.
Just to be clear, are you suggesting that Rules as Intended, Rules as Fun, or Rules as Whatever are any less appropriate for this subforum than Rules as Written?
"Not all those who wander are lost"
Yes, elsewise we wouldn't be debating the interaction of rules... and instead just going with whatever we felt. (Though there has been pages and pages of repetition and reaffirming of the same points... to the point that it has essentially boiled down to an opinion thing anyway)
Nope. Acknowledging that some people seem to feel that way whenever they are brought up. I wouldn't mention it if I thought it was inappropriate for the forum. I think it's very appropriate to consider RAI. Other DMs disagree. Knowing both is helpful.
Moving around someone to flank them very much does cost movement, even if you don't move out of their reach.
Canto alla vita
alla sua bellezza
ad ogni sua ferita
ogni sua carezza!
I sing to life and to its tragic beauty
To pain and to strife, but all that dances through me
The rise and the fall, I've lived through it all!
Unless a feature says that it doesn't use movement, moving always costs movement... What you are thinking of is that you do not provoke Opportunity Attacks when moving within a creature's reach.
As has been stated clearly multiple times now, there is no paradox of causation. OAs are not provoked by a creature actually moving a set amount of distance; they are provoked by a creature in the process of moving away from an enemy creature without the proper use of the Disengage action. An OA is provoked while each creature is still in their original positions. An OA is executed while each creature is still in their original positions. The typical result of completing an OA is that the provoking creature continues their turn by crossing into the next square. They don't necessarily have to continue moving, and it does not create a chronological paradox if they don't keep moving.
I think the bar--for either a DM or player--to make the decision to not keep moving after taking an OA must be very high, but not impossible. The rationale for a creature to knowingly do something dangerous (provoking an OA), and then changing their mind after suffering the consequences (but not the reward) of their decision needs to believable. It's a roleplaying game after all.
I agree with this. 5e design philosophy is terribly bi-polar. We've got so many aspects of the actual game system that are written with broad strokes. Simple writing is great, and writing things in a way that the average person can follow is also great... if it's consistent. Movement, movement in combat, and movement-triggered effects are (IMO) the worst offenders. It's one of the most important foundational sections, yet it's also the most vague. There are so many spells/abilities/features that depend on absurdly-specific movement scenarios that are not ever defined in the basic rules they purport to depend on.
I think one of the reasons they avoid talking about movement triggers as explicitly 5ft, 10ft, etc is because 'Theater of the Mind' is still a common thing for a lot of groups, and there's nothing in the rules mandating that movement only be in 5ft chunks. The smallest increment of movement I've seen the books reference is 1 foot, but that's not a mandated increment either. The designers really need to understand that while simplicity and intentional vagueness can be good things, the entire product needs to be contained within a cohesive tier of granularity. If they want to have the rules on movement be relatively vague, they can't have other things rely on an aspect of those rules which are not defined.
Which comes back to one of your questions... if a creature is already under the effect of BB, decides to run & provoke an OA (which the enemy will use to cast BB again), does the original BB trigger before the OA? Yes. If they begin to move away from an enemy in melee range, prior to provoking the OA, they've moved. Even if it's just 1 foot of movement within the same square. Boom. Nobody can argue with that. They keep moving to the edge of their square to leave the other creature's reach. They trigger an OA from the enemy creature, and that creature casts BB again. The creature decides to keep moving out of the enemy's reach. Boom again.
You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.