There are many ways to go around explaining why, but the Sage Advice Compendium (page 8 as of 2.3) references that question directly.
Are attack rolls and saving throws basically specialized ability checks? They aren’t. It’s easy to mistake the three rolls as three faces of the same thing, because they each involve rolling a d20, adding any modifiers, and comparing the total to a Difficulty Class, and they’re all subject to advantage and disadvantage. In short, they share the same procedure for determining success or failure. Despite this common procedure, the three rolls are separate from each other. If something in the game, like the guidance spell, affects one of them, the other two aren’t affected unless the rules specifically say so.
If you have more questions regarding the matter, I'll be happy to follow through (and I'm pretty sure many more would like to chip in, if no one ninja'd my post already :p )
Related trivia: A Death Save is a saving throw (and thus benefits from a Ring of Protection, for example). Initiative is a Dexterity ability check (so the Bard gets half proficiency to it with Jack of All Trades).
There are many ways to go around explaining why, but the Sage Advice Compendium (page 8 as of 2.3) references that question directly.
Are attack rolls and saving throws basically specialized ability checks? They aren’t. It’s easy to mistake the three rolls as three faces of the same thing, because they each involve rolling a d20, adding any modifiers, and comparing the total to a Difficulty Class, and they’re all subject to advantage and disadvantage. In short, they share the same procedure for determining success or failure. Despite this common procedure, the three rolls are separate from each other. If something in the game, like the guidance spell, affects one of them, the other two aren’t affected unless the rules specifically say so.
If you have more questions regarding the matter, I'll be happy to follow through (and I'm pretty sure many more would like to chip in, if no one ninja'd my post already :p )
Related trivia: A Death Save is a saving throw (and thus benefits from a Ring of Protection, for example). Initiative is a Dexterity ability check (so the Bard gets half proficiency to it with Jack of All Trades).
Does it really just essential goes down to, "Cause I said so!"?
No it boils down to, "We decided so and put it in the rules".
If you are looking for a reason it is so that they can make other game element only apply to one of them but not the others. Things like Bless only giving a bonus to attack rolls and saves but not ability checks or Guidance only affecting ability checks but not the others or the rules crit hits/misses only affecting attack rolls and so on and so on. It makes it a lot easier to balance the rules when you can deal with each part on its own.
Yes, a Saving Throw in 5e14 is an Ability Check. In 5e24, SA advice becomes RAW, and now it is a d20 Test, and is no longer considered a Saving Throw.
That is 100% incorrect. Saving throws and ability checks have been disjoint sets for as long as they've existed.
It is an Ability Check, as it is considered a test of the ability of the creature to resist the effect(s) of certain conditions and spells that may or may not impart a change in condition. A successful check may ether completely resist all of a change of condition, or reduce the damage or effect of a change in condition.
Non sequitur. Your conclusion does not follow from the premise at all.
The threshold for whether or not the defending creature can resist the change, depends on the source of the need for the Saving Throw. This threshold is usually based on, now get this, a fixed value plus specified modifier(s). [Modifiers may be a combination of factors that can be applied to the threshold. Items, Equipment, features, etc.]
Sure, but that has no bearing on whether something is a check or a saving throw.
When specific ability checks are affected by a feature or spell or whatever, the specific ability check(s) are usually specified by the description, and only those specific checks are affected as per description.
True, but irrelevant, since we're talking about saving throws and not ability checks.
Most saving throws are tied to ether core ability scores and just their core ability mods, while some saving throws can be tied to a specific ability scores sub skill modifier(s), and associated extras that might assist/debuff the specified Ability Score sub Skill mods. Example, Athletics skill is typically associated with Strength, but can carry a higher mod bonus due to various factors, and can be used by a DM to give the saving character a better chance of success. Or if the associated skill is too high, the DM could just ask for a core/Raw ability Saving Throw.
No, not at all. Skill proficiencies only apply to ability checks, not to saving throws. Saving throw proficiencies apply to saving throws.
And that is why a Saving Throw is an Ability Check, your basically getting tested to see how well you can respond to the threat and save off the worst of whatever you are going to get.
Again, non sequitur. Was this AI-written? It feels like something chatGPT would produce, and also it's completely wrong.
Yes, a Saving Throw in 5e14 is an Ability Check. In 5e24, SA advice becomes RAW, and now it is a d20 Test, and is no longer considered a Saving Throw.
It is an Ability Check, as it is considered a test of the ability of the creature to resist the effect(s) of certain conditions and spells that may or may not impart a change in condition. A successful check may ether completely resist all of a change of condition, or reduce the damage or effect of a change in condition.
The threshold for whether or not the defending creature can resist the change, depends on the source of the need for the Saving Throw. This threshold is usually based on, now get this, a fixed value plus specified modifier(s). [Modifiers may be a combination of factors that can be applied to the threshold. Items, Equipment, features, etc.]
When specific ability checks are affected by a feature or spell or whatever, the specific ability check(s) are usually specified by the description, and only those specific checks are affected as per description. Most saving throws are tied to ether core ability scores and just their core ability mods, while some saving throws can be tied to a specific ability scores sub skill modifier(s), and associated extras that might assist/debuff the specified Ability Score sub Skill mods. Example, Athletics skill is typically associated with Strength, but can carry a higher mod bonus due to various factors, and can be used by a DM to give the saving character a better chance of success. Or if the associated skill is too high, the DM could just ask for a core/Raw ability Saving Throw.
And that is why a Saving Throw is an Ability Check, your basically getting tested to see how well you can respond to the threat and save off the worst of whatever you are going to get.
All of this is totally incorrect.
2014 Ability Check, as described in "Chapter 7: Using Ability Scores --> Ability Checks":
Ability Checks
An ability check tests a character's or monster's innate talent and training in an effort to overcome a challenge. The DM calls for an ability check when a character or monster attempts an action (other than an attack) that has a chance of failure. When the outcome is uncertain, the dice determine the results.
2014 Saving Throw, as described in "Chapter 7: Using Ability Scores --> Saving Throws":
Saving Throws
A saving throw--also called a save--represents an attempt to resist a spell, a trap, a poison, a disease, or a similar threat. You don’t normally decide to make a saving throw; you are forced to make one because your character or monster is at risk of harm.
These two mechanics both use ability scores, but they are listed in separate, mutually exclusive sections in the book and are used in mutually exclusive situations and they work differently from each other. For example, a character can have a proficiency in a particular Saving Throw but cannot have a proficiency in a particular Ability Check -- instead, they have proficiency in some of the skills that are usually associated with certain Ability Checks. An Ability Check is not a Saving Throw and a Saving Throw is not an Ability Check. These are two separate mechanics that both use ability scores.
When the outcome of an action is uncertain, the game uses a d20 roll to determine success or failure. These rolls are called D20 Tests, and they come in three kinds: ability checks, saving throws, and attack rolls.
When the outcome of an action is uncertain, the game uses a d20 roll to determine success or failure. These rolls are called D20 Tests, and they come in three kinds: ability checks, saving throws, and attack rolls.
While this is a line in the book, it doesn't invalidate the above answers. It just means that all three types of rolls are considered to fall in a broader category known as D20 Tests. That doesn't make the three interchangeable. If that line made saving throws also count as ability checks, then by the same logic, you could apply any bonus to saving throws that you might gain to attack rolls as well.
Yes, a Saving Throw in 5e14 is an Ability Check. In 5e24, SA advice becomes RAW, and now it is a d20 Test, and is no longer considered a Saving Throw.
That is 100% incorrect. Saving throws and ability checks have been disjoint sets for as long as they've existed.
It is an Ability Check, as it is considered a test of the ability of the creature to resist the effect(s) of certain conditions and spells that may or may not impart a change in condition. A successful check may ether completely resist all of a change of condition, or reduce the damage or effect of a change in condition.
Non sequitur. Your conclusion does not follow from the premise at all.
The threshold for whether or not the defending creature can resist the change, depends on the source of the need for the Saving Throw. This threshold is usually based on, now get this, a fixed value plus specified modifier(s). [Modifiers may be a combination of factors that can be applied to the threshold. Items, Equipment, features, etc.]
Sure, but that has no bearing on whether something is a check or a saving throw.
When specific ability checks are affected by a feature or spell or whatever, the specific ability check(s) are usually specified by the description, and only those specific checks are affected as per description.
True, but irrelevant, since we're talking about saving throws and not ability checks.
Most saving throws are tied to ether core ability scores and just their core ability mods, while some saving throws can be tied to a specific ability scores sub skill modifier(s), and associated extras that might assist/debuff the specified Ability Score sub Skill mods. Example, Athletics skill is typically associated with Strength, but can carry a higher mod bonus due to various factors, and can be used by a DM to give the saving character a better chance of success. Or if the associated skill is too high, the DM could just ask for a core/Raw ability Saving Throw.
No, not at all. Skill proficiencies only apply to ability checks, not to saving throws. Saving throw proficiencies apply to saving throws.
And that is why a Saving Throw is an Ability Check, your basically getting tested to see how well you can respond to the threat and save off the worst of whatever you are going to get.
Again, non sequitur. Was this AI-written? It feels like something chatGPT would produce, and also it's completely wrong.
Well no for one I am not a bot, no chatGPT is too bad at keeping to the topic and questions that have been asked, mainly considering I actually gave a detailed explanation of why a Saving throw can be considered the same as an ability check, hell even put it in terms of the new rules, I personally don’t think a mindless hunk of junk can do it? But thats my honest opinion on this entire matter.
They all use the same mechanic but they are separate and do different things. An ability check is for when you are doing something to see if you were successful or not at that task. Saving throw is for resisting things. Same in 2014 as in 2024, just that 2024 puts them under the d20 Test umbrella.
Juggling 5 balls (Dex ability check) isn’t the same as dodging out of the way of a trap (Dex saving throw).
Is a Saving Throw an Ability Check?
If so, why?
If not, why not?
DCI: 3319125026
It is not.
There are many ways to go around explaining why, but the Sage Advice Compendium (page 8 as of 2.3) references that question directly.
If you have more questions regarding the matter, I'll be happy to follow through (and I'm pretty sure many more would like to chip in, if no one ninja'd my post already :p )
Related trivia:
A Death Save is a saving throw (and thus benefits from a Ring of Protection, for example).
Initiative is a Dexterity ability check (so the Bard gets half proficiency to it with Jack of All Trades).
Thank you for the answer and the source information.
DCI: 3319125026
Will ninja 100%!
I'd like to necro this and repeat the question: why?
SA says, it sounds the same, it does the same, it works the same, but it's different.
Why? Why is it different?
Does it really just essential goes down to, "Cause I said so!"?
No it boils down to, "We decided so and put it in the rules".
If you are looking for a reason it is so that they can make other game element only apply to one of them but not the others. Things like Bless only giving a bonus to attack rolls and saves but not ability checks or Guidance only affecting ability checks but not the others or the rules crit hits/misses only affecting attack rolls and so on and so on.
It makes it a lot easier to balance the rules when you can deal with each part on its own.
That is 100% incorrect. Saving throws and ability checks have been disjoint sets for as long as they've existed.
Non sequitur. Your conclusion does not follow from the premise at all.
Sure, but that has no bearing on whether something is a check or a saving throw.
True, but irrelevant, since we're talking about saving throws and not ability checks.
No, not at all. Skill proficiencies only apply to ability checks, not to saving throws. Saving throw proficiencies apply to saving throws.
Again, non sequitur. Was this AI-written? It feels like something chatGPT would produce, and also it's completely wrong.
All of this is totally incorrect.
2014 Ability Check, as described in "Chapter 7: Using Ability Scores --> Ability Checks":
2014 Saving Throw, as described in "Chapter 7: Using Ability Scores --> Saving Throws":
These two mechanics both use ability scores, but they are listed in separate, mutually exclusive sections in the book and are used in mutually exclusive situations and they work differently from each other. For example, a character can have a proficiency in a particular Saving Throw but cannot have a proficiency in a particular Ability Check -- instead, they have proficiency in some of the skills that are usually associated with certain Ability Checks. An Ability Check is not a Saving Throw and a Saving Throw is not an Ability Check. These are two separate mechanics that both use ability scores.
In 2024 PHB it's different:
D20 Tests
When the outcome of an action is uncertain, the game uses a d20 roll to determine success or failure. These rolls are called D20 Tests, and they come in three kinds: ability checks, saving throws, and attack rolls.
While this is a line in the book, it doesn't invalidate the above answers. It just means that all three types of rolls are considered to fall in a broader category known as D20 Tests. That doesn't make the three interchangeable. If that line made saving throws also count as ability checks, then by the same logic, you could apply any bonus to saving throws that you might gain to attack rolls as well.
They all use the same mechanic but they are separate and do different things. An ability check is for when you are doing something to see if you were successful or not at that task. Saving throw is for resisting things. Same in 2014 as in 2024, just that 2024 puts them under the d20 Test umbrella.
Juggling 5 balls (Dex ability check) isn’t the same as dodging out of the way of a trap (Dex saving throw).
EZD6 by DM Scotty
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/397599/EZD6-Core-Rulebook?