I was certain this is something that would have been discussed already, but I can't find any previous discussions on it.
How would Blur and Mirror Image interact? My view is that if you cast Blur first and then Mirror Image, then the extra images should appear blurred, because they are duplicates of the caster at the time of the casting. If, however, the Blur is cast after Mirror Image, then the benefit of Blur would only apply if an attack lands on the "non-image" (the real caster). Essentially, the Mirror Image mechanic would still allow the caster to have the attack target a duplicate, which would then only have an AC of 10 + Dex modifier. If however the attack landed on the caster, then the attack would be disadvantaged.
If the images are blurred, then naturally even an attack on an image would be at a disadvantage.
Does this seem like a reasonable interaction of the two spells?
Strictly speaking, neither Mirror Image nor Blur care about what the other one is doing. There is no direct conflict between them.
Mirror Image has you roll a d20 to see if a duplicate is hit when "a creature targets you with an attack". Blur causes creatures that attack you to have disadvantage. Enemies still try to target you when you have duplicates around you. Both effects work as normal.
Now, I understand the reason behind the question. It's an interesting theme. If the DM is willing to take the extra effort to consider such effect interactions (and maintain consistency between them), it's an interesting way to play around.
I'd still think both effects apply, though, regardless of when Blur is cast, because for Mirror Image to work the way it does, all duplicates should resemble you at all times. The spell doesn't fail to confuse if you become disarmed - so do your duplicates. Or if your white cloak gets bloodied. Or if you lose an arm. Or if you're suddenly blurry.
No, the spell fails when someone uses Blindsight, sees through illusions (such as via truesight), or doesn't see you.
Which brings me to a warning: the combination may work well against beasts and monsters that aren't particularly versed in the arcane, but if someone knows how those effects work, they'd close their eyes to attack you. They'd get disadvantage from Blur anyway, so being blinded for a moment won't get them any worse off, and they avoid Mirror Image's effects.
If you cast Blur and Mirror Image together and the images aren't also blurred, then your opponents would be able to bypass the effect of Mirror Image because they'd be able to tell which image is real. So I'd rule that the images always have to be blurred in order for both of the spells to work at all.
The spell doesn't fail to confuse if you become disarmed - so do your duplicates. Or if your white cloak gets bloodied. Or if you lose an arm. Or if you're suddenly blurry.
Yes, this is true... I agree with both responses. The reason I didn't care about that "realistically" occurring was because the game mechanic of Mirror Imagen no longer rests on the attacker to choose a target; rather the caster makes the roll to see what is targeted. This takes away the attacker's choice in the matter entirely. It almost doesn't matter if one image is bloodied, the other disarmed and the third one naked. Mechanically speaking, as soon as the caster is the target of an attack, he/she rolls to see if it is an image that's targeted or the actual caster.
Depending on the results of that roll, the attacker then resolves their attack roll. In our scenario here, if we all agree, then the duplicate image would be enhanced by Blur and thus the attacker would be disadvantaged.
It’s an interesting combo, but not incredibly strong. You have to pass on two turns worth of actions, and if you are fighting too many enemies or a strong enemy with multiple attacks, they might very well make you lose concentration on blur or eat through the illusions before you get two actions worth of protection for those 2 spell slots.
I like taking either one or the other, or save the combo for a surprise round when you have a head start.
I was considering this but hadn't decided yet if it would be good to get both.
My problem with blur is that I cant concentrate in other spells so good stuff like hold person, suggestion, etc cant function.
On the other hand, a group of enemies could take down mirror image very quickly. As a multiclassed wizard rogue, groups are my main threat currently.
However, I am a bladesinger which gives me a +3 AC. That puts my AC up to 20. Add onto that shield I'm sitting at 25. Now suddenly blur becomes quite good. The chance of getting hit with a 25 AC with disadvantage is very small considering my character is 5th level (fighting relatively weak enemies). If I dont get hit I dont role constitution saving, even if I do get hit I have bladesinger which puts me on a +4 constitution throws. When I get proficiency at level 6 that will go up to +7 on con saves.
If you can stack things like this, blur becomes a clearly superior spell. For people with much lower AC I'd say mirror image is considerably better though.
I was considering this but hadn't decided yet if it would be good to get both.
Odd thread to necro to discuss character optimization when it was originally about functional interaction alone. But I'll bite.
My problem with blur is that I cant concentrate in other spells so good stuff like hold person, suggestion, etc cant function.
Correct, it is a powerful defensive spell and it requires concentration. Useful, for sure, when you genuinely need that extra defense. You'll know better than anyone else if that is the case. If you're not regularly getting beat down, an offensive buff, utility/mobility, or battlefield control might be a better type of effect to spend your concentration on.
On the other hand, a group of enemies could take down mirror image very quickly. As a multiclassed wizard rogue, groups are my main threat currently.
Your threat really is your (probably) low HP pool. That's really it. Bladesingers are plenty tanky otherwise.
However, I am a bladesinger which gives me a +3 AC. That puts my AC up to 20. Add onto that shield I'm sitting at 25. Now suddenly blur becomes quite good. The chance of getting hit with a 25 AC with disadvantage is very small considering my character is 5th level (fighting relatively weak enemies). If I dont get hit I dont role constitution saving, even if I do get hit I have bladesinger which puts me on a +4 constitution throws. When I get proficiency at level 6 that will go up to +7 on con saves.
If you can stack things like this, blur becomes a clearly superior spell. For people with much lower AC I'd say mirror image is considerably better though.
Mirror Image and Blur shouldn't really be directly compared as to "which is better" because one requires concentration and the other does not. You can literally use them both.
Mirror Images is a fantastic inclusion to your spell list, generally speaking, because it doesn't require concentration so you can always toss it on for a bit of added survival when needed regardless what your current concentration is being used on.
Honestly? Your focus is wrong. Blur is great when needed but shouldn't be your go-to concentration spell. Especially as a multiclass rogue. You should be using Shadow Blade. It hits hard, is finesse, and in dark/dim you get free advantage so you'll always trigger your sneak attack damage. It is just thematically perfect too.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
I was considering this but hadn't decided yet if it would be good to get both.
My problem with blur is that I cant concentrate in other spells so good stuff like hold person, suggestion, etc cant function.
On the other hand, a group of enemies could take down mirror image very quickly. As a multiclassed wizard rogue, groups are my main threat currently.
However, I am a bladesinger which gives me a +3 AC. That puts my AC up to 20. Add onto that shield I'm sitting at 25. Now suddenly blur becomes quite good. The chance of getting hit with a 25 AC with disadvantage is very small considering my character is 5th level (fighting relatively weak enemies). If I dont get hit I dont role constitution saving, even if I do get hit I have bladesinger which puts me on a +4 constitution throws. When I get proficiency at level 6 that will go up to +7 on con saves.
If you can stack things like this, blur becomes a clearly superior spell. For people with much lower AC I'd say mirror image is considerably better though.
If you're a Rogue, Mirror Image isn't just concentrationless - if you have the Sentinel feat, anyone stabbing your clones is letting you stab them. It's a popular way to build Arcane Tricksters.
That is beautiful! Thank you for pointing that out. I already was considering getting the Sentinel feat and that definitely seals it for me.
In that case I would potentially consider Mirror Image over Blur and then use my concentration for Shadow Blade or even something more wild like Suggestion/Hold Person.
I was considering this but hadn't decided yet if it would be good to get both.
Odd thread to necro to discuss character optimization when it was originally about functional interaction alone. But I'll bite.
My problem with blur is that I cant concentrate in other spells so good stuff like hold person, suggestion, etc cant function.
Correct, it is a powerful defensive spell and it requires concentration. Useful, for sure, when you genuinely need that extra defense. You'll know better than anyone else if that is the case. If you're not regularly getting beat down, an offensive buff, utility/mobility, or battlefield control might be a better type of effect to spend your concentration on.
On the other hand, a group of enemies could take down mirror image very quickly. As a multiclassed wizard rogue, groups are my main threat currently.
Your threat really is your (probably) low HP pool. That's really it. Bladesingers are plenty tanky otherwise.
However, I am a bladesinger which gives me a +3 AC. That puts my AC up to 20. Add onto that shield I'm sitting at 25. Now suddenly blur becomes quite good. The chance of getting hit with a 25 AC with disadvantage is very small considering my character is 5th level (fighting relatively weak enemies). If I dont get hit I dont role constitution saving, even if I do get hit I have bladesinger which puts me on a +4 constitution throws. When I get proficiency at level 6 that will go up to +7 on con saves.
If you can stack things like this, blur becomes a clearly superior spell. For people with much lower AC I'd say mirror image is considerably better though.
Mirror Image and Blur shouldn't really be directly compared as to "which is better" because one requires concentration and the other does not. You can literally use them both.
Mirror Images is a fantastic inclusion to your spell list, generally speaking, because it doesn't require concentration so you can always toss it on for a bit of added survival when needed regardless what your current concentration is being used on.
Honestly? Your focus is wrong. Blur is great when needed but shouldn't be your go-to concentration spell. Especially as a multiclass rogue. You should be using Shadow Blade. It hits hard, is finesse, and in dark/dim you get free advantage so you'll always trigger your sneak attack damage. It is just thematically perfect too.
If you're worried about Concentration with blur consider if you're able to get the clock of displacement!!
Cloak of Displacement
Wondrous item, rare (requires attunement)
While you wear this cloak, it projects an illusion that makes you appear to be standing in a place near your actual location, causing any creature to have disadvantage on attack rolls against you. If you take damage, the property ceases to function until the start of your next turn. This property is suppressed while you are incapacitated, restrained, or otherwise unable to move.
If both blur and mirror image are active Attacks against the creature are at disadvantage and then you roll for mirror image
I think it’s the other way around. Roll for who you are attacking, PC or duplicate. Then make the attack roll with disadvantage.
It literally doesn't matter which order you do that in.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
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I was certain this is something that would have been discussed already, but I can't find any previous discussions on it.
How would Blur and Mirror Image interact? My view is that if you cast Blur first and then Mirror Image, then the extra images should appear blurred, because they are duplicates of the caster at the time of the casting. If, however, the Blur is cast after Mirror Image, then the benefit of Blur would only apply if an attack lands on the "non-image" (the real caster). Essentially, the Mirror Image mechanic would still allow the caster to have the attack target a duplicate, which would then only have an AC of 10 + Dex modifier. If however the attack landed on the caster, then the attack would be disadvantaged.
If the images are blurred, then naturally even an attack on an image would be at a disadvantage.
Does this seem like a reasonable interaction of the two spells?
Strictly speaking, neither Mirror Image nor Blur care about what the other one is doing. There is no direct conflict between them.
Mirror Image has you roll a d20 to see if a duplicate is hit when "a creature targets you with an attack".
Blur causes creatures that attack you to have disadvantage. Enemies still try to target you when you have duplicates around you.
Both effects work as normal.
Now, I understand the reason behind the question. It's an interesting theme. If the DM is willing to take the extra effort to consider such effect interactions (and maintain consistency between them), it's an interesting way to play around.
I'd still think both effects apply, though, regardless of when Blur is cast, because for Mirror Image to work the way it does, all duplicates should resemble you at all times. The spell doesn't fail to confuse if you become disarmed - so do your duplicates. Or if your white cloak gets bloodied. Or if you lose an arm. Or if you're suddenly blurry.
No, the spell fails when someone uses Blindsight, sees through illusions (such as via truesight), or doesn't see you.
Which brings me to a warning: the combination may work well against beasts and monsters that aren't particularly versed in the arcane, but if someone knows how those effects work, they'd close their eyes to attack you. They'd get disadvantage from Blur anyway, so being blinded for a moment won't get them any worse off, and they avoid Mirror Image's effects.
If you cast Blur and Mirror Image together and the images aren't also blurred, then your opponents would be able to bypass the effect of Mirror Image because they'd be able to tell which image is real. So I'd rule that the images always have to be blurred in order for both of the spells to work at all.
Professional computer geek
Yes, this is true... I agree with both responses. The reason I didn't care about that "realistically" occurring was because the game mechanic of Mirror Imagen no longer rests on the attacker to choose a target; rather the caster makes the roll to see what is targeted. This takes away the attacker's choice in the matter entirely. It almost doesn't matter if one image is bloodied, the other disarmed and the third one naked. Mechanically speaking, as soon as the caster is the target of an attack, he/she rolls to see if it is an image that's targeted or the actual caster.
Depending on the results of that roll, the attacker then resolves their attack roll. In our scenario here, if we all agree, then the duplicate image would be enhanced by Blur and thus the attacker would be disadvantaged.
Thanks!
It’s an interesting combo, but not incredibly strong. You have to pass on two turns worth of actions, and if you are fighting too many enemies or a strong enemy with multiple attacks, they might very well make you lose concentration on blur or eat through the illusions before you get two actions worth of protection for those 2 spell slots.
I like taking either one or the other, or save the combo for a surprise round when you have a head start.
I was considering this but hadn't decided yet if it would be good to get both.
My problem with blur is that I cant concentrate in other spells so good stuff like hold person, suggestion, etc cant function.
On the other hand, a group of enemies could take down mirror image very quickly. As a multiclassed wizard rogue, groups are my main threat currently.
However, I am a bladesinger which gives me a +3 AC. That puts my AC up to 20. Add onto that shield I'm sitting at 25. Now suddenly blur becomes quite good. The chance of getting hit with a 25 AC with disadvantage is very small considering my character is 5th level (fighting relatively weak enemies). If I dont get hit I dont role constitution saving, even if I do get hit I have bladesinger which puts me on a +4 constitution throws. When I get proficiency at level 6 that will go up to +7 on con saves.
If you can stack things like this, blur becomes a clearly superior spell. For people with much lower AC I'd say mirror image is considerably better though.
Odd thread to necro to discuss character optimization when it was originally about functional interaction alone. But I'll bite.
Correct, it is a powerful defensive spell and it requires concentration. Useful, for sure, when you genuinely need that extra defense. You'll know better than anyone else if that is the case. If you're not regularly getting beat down, an offensive buff, utility/mobility, or battlefield control might be a better type of effect to spend your concentration on.
Your threat really is your (probably) low HP pool. That's really it. Bladesingers are plenty tanky otherwise.
Mirror Image and Blur shouldn't really be directly compared as to "which is better" because one requires concentration and the other does not. You can literally use them both.
Mirror Images is a fantastic inclusion to your spell list, generally speaking, because it doesn't require concentration so you can always toss it on for a bit of added survival when needed regardless what your current concentration is being used on.
Honestly? Your focus is wrong. Blur is great when needed but shouldn't be your go-to concentration spell. Especially as a multiclass rogue. You should be using Shadow Blade. It hits hard, is finesse, and in dark/dim you get free advantage so you'll always trigger your sneak attack damage. It is just thematically perfect too.
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
If you're a Rogue, Mirror Image isn't just concentrationless - if you have the Sentinel feat, anyone stabbing your clones is letting you stab them. It's a popular way to build Arcane Tricksters.
That is beautiful! Thank you for pointing that out. I already was considering getting the Sentinel feat and that definitely seals it for me.
In that case I would potentially consider Mirror Image over Blur and then use my concentration for Shadow Blade or even something more wild like Suggestion/Hold Person.
Fair enough
If you're worried about Concentration with blur consider if you're able to get the clock of displacement!!
Cloak of Displacement
Wondrous item, rare (requires attunement)
While you wear this cloak, it projects an illusion that makes you appear to be standing in a place near your actual location, causing any creature to have disadvantage on attack rolls against you. If you take damage, the property ceases to function until the start of your next turn. This property is suppressed while you are incapacitated, restrained, or otherwise unable to move.
Youre all over thinking it
If both blur and mirror image are active Attacks against the creature are at disadvantage and then you roll for mirror image
I think it’s the other way around. Roll for who you are attacking, PC or duplicate. Then make the attack roll with disadvantage.
I think it’s the other way around. Roll for who you are attacking, PC or duplicate. Then make the attack roll with disadvantage.
It literally doesn't matter which order you do that in.
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.