Sorry for my long post, let me restate it better. This is my alternative for #2, all spells on the wizard spell list are wizard spells. All spells on the sorcerer spell list are sorcerer spells. However, overlapping spells are different versions of each other. A fireball on the wizard spell list is different than a fireball from the sorcerer spell list. Feats that, for example, grant Wizard spells, grants the wizard version of that spell.
I definitely agree that this is the thematic intention, however, I do not know of anything mechanically that supports it. And the ability for a Wizard to copy spells that overlap with other classes into their Spellbook would seem, mechanically, to disprove it.
This is becoming hard to explain, so I'll use D&D Beyond to show my point, since it's coded with the same vision as mine. This doesn't as evidence, since it's D&D Beyond's opinion, however it counts as a example of what my vision looks like.
Create a Wizard 5/Sorcerer 5 with different modifiers for CHA and INT, I used CHA 18 and INT 16.
Use your wizard levels to prepare Fireball, you'll notice you gain Fireball Wizard (look at the character sheet, below spells in small text it shows the class associated). Your character sheet shows "Fireball", then under that "Wizard". This shows it's the Wizard version of Fireball, so your wizard levels allow you to cast it using Intelligence.
However, you want to cast it with CHA since it's higher, but you can't cast it using sorcerer levels. Since to cast it as a sorcerer you need it to be the Sorcerer version of a spell (see spellcasting feature for sorcerer), but right now it's only the Wizard version. Go back to the character creation menu and prepare Fireball using sorcerer levels, you'll gain Fireball Sorcerer. Afterwards, check your character sheet. You should see:
Fireball Wizard DEX 15
Fireball Sorcerer DEX 16
The two spells don't overlap because they are considered two separate versions. One of them is a wizard version, while the other is a sorcerer version. Thus they benefit from different features (for example, the Sorcerer version cannot benefit from Wizard spellcasting, and vise-versa).
The two spells don't overlap because they are considered two separate versions. One of them is a wizard version, while the other is a sorcerer version. Thus they benefit from different features (for example, the Sorcerer version cannot benefit from Wizard spellcasting, and vise-versa).
This is what we've been saying all along, and I truly don't get why this is apparently so hard for others to understand. The spells that a character learns throughout their lives are tied to the source that they learned the spells from. A Wizard casting Fireball as a Wizard spell is mechanically distinct from a Sorcerer casting Fireball as a Sorcerer. They are distinct spells as far as the rules are concerned.
A Sorcerer may not cast Fireball as a Wizard spell (using Intelligence, and any features which trigger off of casting Wizard spells) without having learned and prepared it as a Wizard spell, counting against the maximum number of Wizard spells you can prepare per the Wizard spellcasting feature. Simply knowing Fireball as a Sorcerer does not allow you to cast the spell as a Wizard. It is not a Wizard spell for you unless you take the time to convert the spell to Wizard notation, transcribe it into your Wizard Spellbook, and prepare the spell as one of your Wizard spells.
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You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
Well, they aren't different spells, which could be easily determined as soon as you try to cast a Cleric Guidance and a Druid Guidance on top of one another and realize that they are the same magical effect. There is only "Guidance", and Guidance is a Cleric Spell and a Druid Spell and an Artificer Spell, period.
Cool, so I can take one level of Wizard, and any of the spells I learn & prepare as a level 1 Wizard (that are on both lists) can instantly be cast as a Sorcerer spell instead? Even though there is not one single factual shred of evidence to support that. One level for an entire spell list? Bullshit.
Lemme go ahead and just take a one level dip into every single casting class, and treat all of their spells as if they were from whatever class I need at the moment. Sure, why not? Rules only matter when they're in your favor, right? FFS, every line of argument from you is made entirely in bad faith.
Did you learn Fireball as a Wizard on level up, or did you find that spell and pay to transcribe it into your Wizard spell book? Did you prepare the spell as a Wizard? No? Then it is not a Wizard spell for you. You cannot cast the spell as a Wizard spell. You cannot use any features that trigger off of casting a Wizard spell. You do not use Intelligence to determine the Spell Save DC.
Mystic Theurges are not a thing (yet, at least) in 5e. There is no way for you to unify all the possible spells you may know from MC caster classes in a singular list with one spellcasting ability score. You get what you get from each of your classes separately. Deal with it.
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You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
No, because you don't Know those spells (according to the Wizard spellcasting feature), and you need to Know a Sorcerer Spell to cast it with Charisma (according to the Sorcerer spellcasting feature). Also, Chapter 6 does mandate that we "associate" our spells with one class or the other, which is also an obstacle to freely choosing a casting stat.
Then why are you still arguing? You've just stated the exact thing that you were arguing against. Congratulations, you agree with me & Bees. Topic over.
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You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
Nothing about what I just said prevents a Sorcerer-associated Fireball from counting as "a Wizard Spell" when cast using Charisma. Welcome to the last four pages of discussion.
You learn the magic of the primeval woods, which are revered and protected by your people. You learn one druid cantrip of your choice. You also learn the longstrider and pass without trace spells, each of which you can cast once without expending a spell slot. You regain the ability to cast these two spells in this way when you finish a long rest. Wisdom is your spellcasting ability for all three spells.
vs.
Magic Initiate:
Choose a class: bard, cleric, druid, sorcerer, warlock, or wizard. You learn two cantrips of your choice from that class's spell list.
In addition, choose one 1st-level spell from that same list. You learn that spell and can cast it at its lowest level.Once you cast it, you must finish a long rest before you can cast it again using this feat.
Your spellcasting ability for these spells depends on the class you chose: Charisma for bard, sorcerer, or warlock; Wisdom for cleric or druid; or Intelligence for wizard.
Nothing states that the spells from the wood elf magic feat count as druid spells for you, although they do cast using wisdom.
You can cast them once per long rest without expending a spell slot.
It does not mention preparing the spell, so preparation mechanics aren't relevant to it.
The notable thing though, and the reason I bring up magic initiate, the latter explicitly states that you must finish a rest to cast it, while the former adds in the "in this way", and "you can cast it once without expending a spell slot" - Given the phrase "learned" occurs in bards, etc. there is nothing to imply you cannot use a spell slot RAW, in fact the wording would imply you can. Furthermore, magic initiate explicitly states at it's lowest level. The wood elf feat does not (which does not affect pass without a trace but is relevant for longstrider)
Balance-wise if we accept the ability to cast it with spell slots from the wood elf magic feat and compare with magic initiate:
Wood Elf Magic allows one cantrip chosen only from the druid spell list and grants the two 1st level spells longstrider and pass without a trace.
Magic initiate allows a free choice of two cantrips and one first level spell with the only stipulation being that they be from the same spell list, but this can be from any spell list.
Wood Elf Magic also has the (expected) restriction that it is only available to wood elf characters.
I would say that wood elf magic seems a moderately worse ability than magic initiate if we refuse the former's ability to use spell slots for it, as cantrips scale with level and the latter could allow for a damage dealing cantrip like eldritch blast. That isn't two say those two utility 1st levels aren't good, but I think mechanically the free choice there from a huge range of spells is pretty powerful. Plus those 2 cantrips can be cast unlimited number of times, which is big.
If we accept this interpretation though it brings the potential to cast these extra known spells more often by expending spell slots with a system like using spell slots from a different class in a multiclassed character does. I'm also not aware of spell slots being stated to be restricted to only class spells.
So to summarize:
I would say RAW this matter is somewhat ambiguous but tending towards yes in it's phrasing.
Sage Advice says no.
RAI is up to you, I really don't think this would break balance at all from at analysis.
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I definitely agree that this is the thematic intention, however, I do not know of anything mechanically that supports it. And the ability for a Wizard to copy spells that overlap with other classes into their Spellbook would seem, mechanically, to disprove it.
This is becoming hard to explain, so I'll use D&D Beyond to show my point, since it's coded with the same vision as mine. This doesn't as evidence, since it's D&D Beyond's opinion, however it counts as a example of what my vision looks like.
Create a Wizard 5/Sorcerer 5 with different modifiers for CHA and INT, I used CHA 18 and INT 16.
Use your wizard levels to prepare Fireball, you'll notice you gain Fireball Wizard (look at the character sheet, below spells in small text it shows the class associated). Your character sheet shows "Fireball", then under that "Wizard". This shows it's the Wizard version of Fireball, so your wizard levels allow you to cast it using Intelligence.
However, you want to cast it with CHA since it's higher, but you can't cast it using sorcerer levels. Since to cast it as a sorcerer you need it to be the Sorcerer version of a spell (see spellcasting feature for sorcerer), but right now it's only the Wizard version. Go back to the character creation menu and prepare Fireball using sorcerer levels, you'll gain Fireball Sorcerer. Afterwards, check your character sheet. You should see:
Fireball Wizard DEX 15
Fireball Sorcerer DEX 16
The two spells don't overlap because they are considered two separate versions. One of them is a wizard version, while the other is a sorcerer version. Thus they benefit from different features (for example, the Sorcerer version cannot benefit from Wizard spellcasting, and vise-versa).
Here's a character I made to test this: https://ddb.ac/characters/29031589/xf7yjx. I'll probably keep this character public for a week before testing other things.
Edit: Fixed link
if I edit a message, most of the time it's because of grammar. The rest of the time I'll put "Edit:" at the bottom.
This is what we've been saying all along, and I truly don't get why this is apparently so hard for others to understand. The spells that a character learns throughout their lives are tied to the source that they learned the spells from. A Wizard casting Fireball as a Wizard spell is mechanically distinct from a Sorcerer casting Fireball as a Sorcerer. They are distinct spells as far as the rules are concerned.
A Sorcerer may not cast Fireball as a Wizard spell (using Intelligence, and any features which trigger off of casting Wizard spells) without having learned and prepared it as a Wizard spell, counting against the maximum number of Wizard spells you can prepare per the Wizard spellcasting feature. Simply knowing Fireball as a Sorcerer does not allow you to cast the spell as a Wizard. It is not a Wizard spell for you unless you take the time to convert the spell to Wizard notation, transcribe it into your Wizard Spellbook, and prepare the spell as one of your Wizard spells.
You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
Well, they aren't different spells, which could be easily determined as soon as you try to cast a Cleric Guidance and a Druid Guidance on top of one another and realize that they are the same magical effect. There is only "Guidance", and Guidance is a Cleric Spell and a Druid Spell and an Artificer Spell, period.
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I'm going to make this way harder than it needs to be.
Cool, so I can take one level of Wizard, and any of the spells I learn & prepare as a level 1 Wizard (that are on both lists) can instantly be cast as a Sorcerer spell instead? Even though there is not one single factual shred of evidence to support that. One level for an entire spell list? Bullshit.
Lemme go ahead and just take a one level dip into every single casting class, and treat all of their spells as if they were from whatever class I need at the moment. Sure, why not? Rules only matter when they're in your favor, right? FFS, every line of argument from you is made entirely in bad faith.
Did you learn Fireball as a Wizard on level up, or did you find that spell and pay to transcribe it into your Wizard spell book? Did you prepare the spell as a Wizard? No? Then it is not a Wizard spell for you. You cannot cast the spell as a Wizard spell. You cannot use any features that trigger off of casting a Wizard spell. You do not use Intelligence to determine the Spell Save DC.
Mystic Theurges are not a thing (yet, at least) in 5e. There is no way for you to unify all the possible spells you may know from MC caster classes in a singular list with one spellcasting ability score. You get what you get from each of your classes separately. Deal with it.
You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
No, because you don't Know those spells (according to the Wizard spellcasting feature), and you need to Know a Sorcerer Spell to cast it with Charisma (according to the Sorcerer spellcasting feature). Also, Chapter 6 does mandate that we "associate" our spells with one class or the other, which is also an obstacle to freely choosing a casting stat.
Come on man...
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I'm going to make this way harder than it needs to be.
Then why are you still arguing? You've just stated the exact thing that you were arguing against. Congratulations, you agree with me & Bees. Topic over.
You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
Nothing about what I just said prevents a Sorcerer-associated Fireball from counting as "a Wizard Spell" when cast using Charisma. Welcome to the last four pages of discussion.
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I'm going to make this way harder than it needs to be.
vs.
Balance-wise if we accept the ability to cast it with spell slots from the wood elf magic feat and compare with magic initiate:
I would say that wood elf magic seems a moderately worse ability than magic initiate if we refuse the former's ability to use spell slots for it, as cantrips scale with level and the latter could allow for a damage dealing cantrip like eldritch blast. That isn't two say those two utility 1st levels aren't good, but I think mechanically the free choice there from a huge range of spells is pretty powerful. Plus those 2 cantrips can be cast unlimited number of times, which is big.
If we accept this interpretation though it brings the potential to cast these extra known spells more often by expending spell slots with a system like using spell slots from a different class in a multiclassed character does. I'm also not aware of spell slots being stated to be restricted to only class spells.
So to summarize: