I am currently playing a 5e homebrew campaign and a curious point came up. The party has a wizard and a warlock, both of whom do have a familiar (a cat and a raven. Really cliché I know). They asked me whether they would even have to put up guards because their magical pets could just stay up all night to look out for danger.
I kind of like the dynamic of who will take which watch so I would tend to say no, but I don't see any reason in the rules why that wouldn't work. How would you handle this?
If you want to think of ways to deny the guard, you can bring up how most summoned creatures will do nothing unless given a direct order from the summoner. you you could have the Familiars stand guard, but because their masters didn't specify what they are guarding for, a group of goblins might easily be able to walk by. On the contrary, since the creatures summoned are basically real animals, they might need to sleep as well. If the players force the animals to keep guard, you might give the familiars a level of Exhaustion.
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Hell yeah I am going to Polymorph the boss into a Rabbit. I have always wanted a being a pure evil stuffed into a ball of fluff.
If you want to think of ways to deny the guard, you can bring up how most summoned creatures will do nothing unless given a direct order from the summoner. you you could have the Familiars stand guard, but because their masters didn't specify what they are guarding for, a group of goblins might easily be able to walk by. On the contrary, since the creatures summoned are basically real animals, they might need to sleep as well. If the players force the animals to keep guard, you might give the familiars a level of Exhaustion.
"Your familiar acts independently of you, but it always obeys your commands." So, it doesn't need a direct order (what's more, by telling it to stand guard, you ARE giving it a direct order).
A cat is as (stat-wise) intelligent as a dog (which are non-magically trained IRL to protect areas from people it doesn't know) means it would know to alert its master about the goblins without a requirement about being specific.
And finally familiars are not summoned versions of real animals. They are spirits that take the form of the animal you choose (it is a celestial, fey, or fiend; not a beast). Now, whether or not you think spirits need to rest is entirely up to the DM (as I wasn't able to find anything official on Sage Advice), but I'd rule they can stay awake through the night (hell, cats are nocturnal anyway).
“It is a better world. A place where we are responsible for our actions, where we can be kind to one another because we want to and because it is the right thing to do instead of being frightened into behaving by the threat of divine punishment.” ― Oramis, Eldest by Christopher Paolini.
lol, I just have the core books in PDF and can Ctrl+F to look things up and it doesn't hurt that I already had them open while working on campaign stuff (when I SHOULD be actually working instead of charging my clients while I work on D&D)
“It is a better world. A place where we are responsible for our actions, where we can be kind to one another because we want to and because it is the right thing to do instead of being frightened into behaving by the threat of divine punishment.” ― Oramis, Eldest by Christopher Paolini.
@Strandtasche, Can you explain what about the "watch dynamic" you like? If you can articulate that with your players I think it might help it come to an agreement.
I'm taking a wild guess and assuming the Wizard drops an (ritual) Alarm spell every night before bed too!
I've personally found it to be mostly tedium aside from the occasional encounter, until the party gets Rope Trick or better, then it's moot.
I'd say each player's familiar needs an 8 hour period of sleep in the pocket dimension, so it may or may not be available for a period of time every day.
If you like the mechanic and want to keep the players on their toes. Remember a few points:
No one sleep in armor.
Minor not real threats could disturb the alarm or familiars.
While the familiars/alarm will wake the party up when it detects danger, they are still going to have to wake up, grab their gear, stand up and prepare for combat. Not having anyone "ready" means a possibly crucial turn or two when no party member is holding off the threat, even if they never get "surprised".
I am currently playing a 5e homebrew campaign and a curious point came up. The party has a wizard and a warlock, both of whom do have a familiar (a cat and a raven. Really cliché I know). They asked me whether they would even have to put up guards because their magical pets could just stay up all night to look out for danger.
I kind of like the dynamic of who will take which watch so I would tend to say no, but I don't see any reason in the rules why that wouldn't work. How would you handle this?
I'd allow it. Remember, just because the familiars can telepathically alert the Wizard/Warlock, doesn't mean that the rest of the party will be ready to fight. The familiars might be able to warn their masters, but the rest of the party is still asleep when the surprise round begins (and likely unarmed/unarmored). Meaning the Wizard/Warlock will be spending time during the surprise round to get up and rouse their allies. Meanwhile the other party members don't get to do anything on the surprise round AND they have to spend a portion of their movement (and probably their actions) in the first round standing up and grabbing their weapons/shields.
Also, cats and ravens don't have darkvision. So unless the adventurers are leaving the fires lit, the animals are going to have disadvantage on their checks (and if they DO have fires lit, that's just ensuring that the monsters get a surprise round on the sleeping adventurers).
“It is a better world. A place where we are responsible for our actions, where we can be kind to one another because we want to and because it is the right thing to do instead of being frightened into behaving by the threat of divine punishment.” ― Oramis, Eldest by Christopher Paolini.
I'd allow it in my game but also treat the familiar as the familiar.
They are going to think and act like that animal - meaning their level of threat assessment and impulse to communicate about it is going to match. A well stated order can definitely make this simple (which is fine), and also faux-logical. Plus, it's essentially the characters setting themselves up.
"You are awakened by telepathic barking from your familiar in your mind. You bolt upright, sitting next to a cool campfire, and look around in the darkness. 'Two legged walkers, this way!' your familiar sends, standing next to you with his nose pointed to the Northeast. Just then you see the outline of a large mass form in your vision against the night sky. What looks like a club is hefted up in preparation for a swing. Roll initiative."
Instead of an actual character seeing the threat and having a greater ability to respond and set a better start to things, the familiar can sound a reasonable alarm, but it's less... time to prepare. I'm good with it as a convenience at that kind of cost. Easy enough.
It came up on the campaign I am narrating, the Arcane Trickster used his familiar to keep guard so I had the Gnolls hunting the party to have a trained sneak that stealthy hunted and killed the owl familiar.
Sure the Arcane trickster woke up, but by then the party was surrounded by angry Gnolls.
The mechanics of who is on watch is nice, usually warrants some discussion in a recently formed party so, when the party decides to use game mechanics (or game hacks) to avoid this kind of situation I just mechanic them back (hehe).
Leaving the familiar on watch is the same as leaving the spellcaster on watch.
I think I am going to go allow it, but impose the restriction that a familiar needs 8 hours of rest. So if the PC used the familiar a lot during the day, it's going to suffer a level of exhaustion if taxed with standing guard at night as well, but if not it's ok (being in their extradimensional space is going to count as resting).
Of course the option with "the familiar might not be able to differentiate between a real threat and a minor disturbance" is really interesting so I might be using that as well.
Thank you all for your input :)
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Hey guys,
I am currently playing a 5e homebrew campaign and a curious point came up.
The party has a wizard and a warlock, both of whom do have a familiar (a cat and a raven. Really cliché I know). They asked me whether they would even have to put up guards because their magical pets could just stay up all night to look out for danger.
I kind of like the dynamic of who will take which watch so I would tend to say no, but I don't see any reason in the rules why that wouldn't work. How would you handle this?
I don't see any problem with that...having these "pets" has its advantages.
If you want to think of ways to deny the guard, you can bring up how most summoned creatures will do nothing unless given a direct order from the summoner. you you could have the Familiars stand guard, but because their masters didn't specify what they are guarding for, a group of goblins might easily be able to walk by. On the contrary, since the creatures summoned are basically real animals, they might need to sleep as well. If the players force the animals to keep guard, you might give the familiars a level of Exhaustion.
Hell yeah I am going to Polymorph the boss into a Rabbit. I have always wanted a being a pure evil stuffed into a ball of fluff.
A cat is as (stat-wise) intelligent as a dog (which are non-magically trained IRL to protect areas from people it doesn't know) means it would know to alert its master about the goblins without a requirement about being specific.
And finally familiars are not summoned versions of real animals. They are spirits that take the form of the animal you choose (it is a celestial, fey, or fiend; not a beast). Now, whether or not you think spirits need to rest is entirely up to the DM (as I wasn't able to find anything official on Sage Advice), but I'd rule they can stay awake through the night (hell, cats are nocturnal anyway).
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“It is a better world. A place where we are responsible for our actions, where we can be kind to one another because we want to and because it is the right thing to do instead of being frightened into behaving by the threat of divine punishment.” ― Oramis, Eldest by Christopher Paolini.
damn thanks for the correction, you seem to really know your stuff!
Hell yeah I am going to Polymorph the boss into a Rabbit. I have always wanted a being a pure evil stuffed into a ball of fluff.
lol, I just have the core books in PDF and can Ctrl+F to look things up and it doesn't hurt that I already had them open while working on campaign stuff (when I SHOULD be actually working instead of charging my clients while I work on D&D)
Click Here to Download my Lancer Class w/ Dragoon and Legionnaire Archetypes via DM's Guild - Pay What You Want
Click Here to Download the Mind Flayer: Thoon Hulk converted from 4e via DM's Guild
“It is a better world. A place where we are responsible for our actions, where we can be kind to one another because we want to and because it is the right thing to do instead of being frightened into behaving by the threat of divine punishment.” ― Oramis, Eldest by Christopher Paolini.
@Strandtasche,
Can you explain what about the "watch dynamic" you like? If you can articulate that with your players I think it might help it come to an agreement.
I'm taking a wild guess and assuming the Wizard drops an (ritual) Alarm spell every night before bed too!
I've personally found it to be mostly tedium aside from the occasional encounter, until the party gets Rope Trick or better, then it's moot.
I'd say each player's familiar needs an 8 hour period of sleep in the pocket dimension, so it may or may not be available for a period of time every day.
If you like the mechanic and want to keep the players on their toes. Remember a few points:
No one sleep in armor.
Minor not real threats could disturb the alarm or familiars.
While the familiars/alarm will wake the party up when it detects danger, they are still going to have to wake up, grab their gear, stand up and prepare for combat. Not having anyone "ready" means a possibly crucial turn or two when no party member is holding off the threat, even if they never get "surprised".
Also, cats and ravens don't have darkvision. So unless the adventurers are leaving the fires lit, the animals are going to have disadvantage on their checks (and if they DO have fires lit, that's just ensuring that the monsters get a surprise round on the sleeping adventurers).
Click Here to Download my Lancer Class w/ Dragoon and Legionnaire Archetypes via DM's Guild - Pay What You Want
Click Here to Download the Mind Flayer: Thoon Hulk converted from 4e via DM's Guild
“It is a better world. A place where we are responsible for our actions, where we can be kind to one another because we want to and because it is the right thing to do instead of being frightened into behaving by the threat of divine punishment.” ― Oramis, Eldest by Christopher Paolini.
I'd allow it in my game but also treat the familiar as the familiar.
They are going to think and act like that animal - meaning their level of threat assessment and impulse to communicate about it is going to match. A well stated order can definitely make this simple (which is fine), and also faux-logical. Plus, it's essentially the characters setting themselves up.
"You are awakened by telepathic barking from your familiar in your mind. You bolt upright, sitting next to a cool campfire, and look around in the darkness. 'Two legged walkers, this way!' your familiar sends, standing next to you with his nose pointed to the Northeast. Just then you see the outline of a large mass form in your vision against the night sky. What looks like a club is hefted up in preparation for a swing. Roll initiative."
Instead of an actual character seeing the threat and having a greater ability to respond and set a better start to things, the familiar can sound a reasonable alarm, but it's less... time to prepare. I'm good with it as a convenience at that kind of cost. Easy enough.
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It came up on the campaign I am narrating, the Arcane Trickster used his familiar to keep guard so I had the Gnolls hunting the party to have a trained sneak that stealthy hunted and killed the owl familiar.
Sure the Arcane trickster woke up, but by then the party was surrounded by angry Gnolls.
The mechanics of who is on watch is nice, usually warrants some discussion in a recently formed party so, when the party decides to use game mechanics (or game hacks) to avoid this kind of situation I just mechanic them back (hehe).
Leaving the familiar on watch is the same as leaving the spellcaster on watch.
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I think I am going to go allow it, but impose the restriction that a familiar needs 8 hours of rest. So if the PC used the familiar a lot during the day, it's going to suffer a level of exhaustion if taxed with standing guard at night as well, but if not it's ok (being in their extradimensional space is going to count as resting).
Of course the option with "the familiar might not be able to differentiate between a real threat and a minor disturbance" is really interesting so I might be using that as well.
Thank you all for your input :)