1) The calculation of a 2400lb ability to lift/pull/drag 5'/turn looks to be accurate. The actual carry capacity would be 1200lbs. The math as mentioned is 20 str x 15 x 2(for large build) x2 for bear totem ability assuming they are a bear totem barbarian, which is 1200lbs.
2) However, the aspect being completely under estimated is how much the golem would weigh. 8' tall, 5' wide and a conservative 1' deep = 40 cubic feet of iron (assuming these things are solid). ONE cubic foot of iron is 491 pounds. 40 cubic feet of iron is 19,640lbs. Over 19 THOUSAND pounds. There is no way that barbarian can even budge the iron golem even with a lofty 2400lbs that they could pull lift or drag.
So the barbarian was half right in that they could barely move something weighing 2400lbs and they were completely incorrect in thinking that they were even remotely capable of budging even a small iron golem.
I'm not sure about the assumption that a golem is a solid block of iron; that sounds more like an animated iron statue to me, and even then, metal statues are often hollow. Golems often imply some degree of machinery/clockwork (OP even mentioned that it contains some sort of removable "core" and that it could be "dismantled", implying internal components and spaces), so I think comparing the golem to the weight of a small car might be closer. Then again, modern cars are often more plastic and aluminum than steel and have large open interiors to hold passengers and cargo, so I could certainly see an eight foot golem weighing four or five thousand pounds, even if it's smaller than a car.
I'm not sure about the assumption that a golem is a solid block of iron; that sounds more like an animated iron statue to me, and even then, metal statues are often hollow. Golems often imply some degree of machinery/clockwork (OP even mentioned that it contains some sort of removable "core" and that it could be "dismantled", implying internal components and spaces), so I think comparing the golem to the weight of a small car might be closer. Then again, modern cars are often more plastic and aluminum than steel and have large open interiors to hold passengers and cargo, so I could certainly see an eight foot golem weighing four or five thousand pounds, even if it's smaller than a car.
You could be correct. The monster manual doesn't state explicitly but golems are not clockworks according to the MM.
"Elemental Spirit in Material Form. The construction of a golem begins with the building of its body, requiring great command of the craft of sculpting, stonecutting, ironworking, or surgery. Sometimes a goIem's creator is the master of the art, but often the individual who desires a golem must enlist master artisans to do the work. After constructing the body from clay, flesh, iron, or stone, the golem's creator infuses it with a spirit from the Elemental Plane of Earth. This tiny spark of life has no memory, personality, or history. It is simply the impetus to move and obey. This process binds the spirit to the artificial body and subjects it to the will of the golem's creator."
The body is sculped out of the correct material and infused with an earth elemental spirit. The body doesn't need joints or moving parts.
"IRON GOLEM The mightiest of the golems, the iron golem is a massive, towering giant wrought of heavy metal. An iron golem's shape can be worked into any form, though most are fashioned to look like giant suits of armor. Its fist can destroy creatures with a single blow, and its clanging steps shake the earth beneath its feet. Iron golems wield enormous blades to extend their reach, and all can belch clouds of deadly poison. An iron golem's body is smelted with rare tinctures and admixtures. Though other golems bear weaknesses inherent in their materials or the power of the elemental spirit bound within them, iron golems were designed to be nearly invulnerable. Their iron bodies imprison the spirits that drive them, and are susceptible only to weapons imbued with magic or the strength of adamantine."
The iron golem is sculpted from iron. It is a DM call whether it needs to be solid or not. However, even a shell a couple of inches thick would take up more than 1/4 of the volume which would STILL be at least 10 cubic feet of iron weighing 4910 lbs and would STILL be too much weight for the barbarian to even lift, pull or drag 5'.
So, unless the DM allows the creation of iron golems using a relatively thin layer of iron to create the form of the golem then I'd say that the barbarian isn't moving a iron golem. (It requires somewhat less than a 3/4" thick iron shell to get the weight under 2400lbs ... leaving 10.5" of hollow space inside assuming a 1' total depth - and I didn't include the ends and sides in the estimate ... so likely more like 1/2" thick layer of iron - which is about 2200lbs ... so maybe slightly thicker :) ).
The bottom line is that iron is heavy and the barbarian can't move the golem unless the DM decides that the construction is a very thin shell.
P.S. Cars are mostly NOT made of iron and are mostly NOT solid. There is a lot of plastic. The frame might be steel. The quarterpanels could be plastic in some cases and in others very thin sheet metal. Cars aren't the best comparison for an iron golem.
Assuming they actually have Bear Aspect from level 6, yes, their Push/Drag/Lift limit is 2,400 lbs. I'd say that's a big if as the Bear Aspect is usually one of the least interesting options... especially if they've already got Powerful Build.
As others have mentioned, the likelihood of an Iron Golem weighing more than 2,400 lbs is extremely high, but that is completely up to you.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
Assuming they actually have Bear Aspect from level 6, yes, their Push/Drag/Lift limit is 2,400 lbs. I'd say that's a big if as the Bear Aspect is usually one of the least interesting options... especially if they've already got Powerful Build.
As others have mentioned, the likelihood of an Iron Golem weighing more than 2,400 lbs is extremely high, but that is completely up to you.
Honestly, having Powerful Build would make me MORE likely to take Aspect Of The Bear, just to lean into that part of my character. If you're gonna be the strong guy, be The Strong Guy :)
Assuming they actually have Bear Aspect from level 6, yes, their Push/Drag/Lift limit is 2,400 lbs. I'd say that's a big if as the Bear Aspect is usually one of the least interesting options... especially if they've already got Powerful Build.
As others have mentioned, the likelihood of an Iron Golem weighing more than 2,400 lbs is extremely high, but that is completely up to you.
Honestly, having Powerful Build would make me MORE likely to take Aspect Of The Bear, just to lean into that part of my character. If you're gonna be the strong guy, be The Strong Guy :)
Right? I have a character idea I call Lift, and just want to max out carry capacity.
On the topic of iron golems I think it is safe to assume that they are heavy af and exceed even the barb's mighty lift strength.
There is no way an Iron Golem weighs only 2400 lbs. No way. Not unless he is like 3 ft tall.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
Is there no one smart enough in the party to create a litter for the Golem so the Barb can drag it? Make him suffer for it though, cut his movement speed in half, and a point of exhaustion for every hour he drags it, once he hits 3 points of exhaustion. Make him stop and rest! Has no one in the party got Enlarge/Reduce? Could shrink it and carry it easier, or a bag of holding (would that even hold it?)
I was watching a show like battle bots the other day and got some reference. The "house" robots were about waist high and weighed over 2000 lbs. So there's that, anyway; an 8 foot tall Golem would likely be at least twice that.
Weight scales with the cube of height, so going from 4 feet tall to 8 feet tall would lead to an 8-fold increase in weight. “At least twice that” is selling it short :p
True but those robots are filled with motors and such that are very heavy. Iron golems can be full of stuff in the same way or they can be hollow, that's really up to the DM.
Assuming they actually have Bear Aspect from level 6, yes, their Push/Drag/Lift limit is 2,400 lbs. I'd say that's a big if as the Bear Aspect is usually one of the least interesting options... especially if they've already got Powerful Build.
As others have mentioned, the likelihood of an Iron Golem weighing more than 2,400 lbs is extremely high, but that is completely up to you.
Taking Bear at level 6 makes you a better Grappler. As to the OP, I had a similar situation where I needed to get a Manticore back to a town. I chose to drag it over the course of an hour because I like to show off. I couldn't lift it and carry it but I could drag it. Assuming 2400 is an accurate weight of a Golem I would rule he can drag or push it but not lift and carry.
Assuming they actually have Bear Aspect from level 6, yes, their Push/Drag/Lift limit is 2,400 lbs. I'd say that's a big if as the Bear Aspect is usually one of the least interesting options... especially if they've already got Powerful Build.
As others have mentioned, the likelihood of an Iron Golem weighing more than 2,400 lbs is extremely high, but that is completely up to you.
Taking Bear at level 6 makes you a better Grappler. As to the OP, I had a similar situation where I needed to get a Manticore back to a town. I chose to drag it over the course of an hour because I like to show off. I couldn't lift it and carry it but I could drag it. Assuming 2400 is an accurate weight of a Golem I would rule he can drag or push it but not lift and carry.
If you could drag it, you could lift it. Push, Lift, Drag are all the same for a character.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
Assuming they actually have Bear Aspect from level 6, yes, their Push/Drag/Lift limit is 2,400 lbs. I'd say that's a big if as the Bear Aspect is usually one of the least interesting options... especially if they've already got Powerful Build.
As others have mentioned, the likelihood of an Iron Golem weighing more than 2,400 lbs is extremely high, but that is completely up to you.
Taking Bear at level 6 makes you a better Grappler. As to the OP, I had a similar situation where I needed to get a Manticore back to a town. I chose to drag it over the course of an hour because I like to show off. I couldn't lift it and carry it but I could drag it. Assuming 2400 is an accurate weight of a Golem I would rule he can drag or push it but not lift and carry.
If you could drag it, you could lift it. Push, Lift, Drag are all the same for a character.
Carrying capacity is separate from Push/Lift/Drag. You can lift 2400 lbs but you cannot carry 2400 lbs. I can lift a 2400 lb boulder blocking a doorway but I cannot then carry that boulder.
Assuming they actually have Bear Aspect from level 6, yes, their Push/Drag/Lift limit is 2,400 lbs. I'd say that's a big if as the Bear Aspect is usually one of the least interesting options... especially if they've already got Powerful Build.
As others have mentioned, the likelihood of an Iron Golem weighing more than 2,400 lbs is extremely high, but that is completely up to you.
Taking Bear at level 6 makes you a better Grappler. As to the OP, I had a similar situation where I needed to get a Manticore back to a town. I chose to drag it over the course of an hour because I like to show off. I couldn't lift it and carry it but I could drag it. Assuming 2400 is an accurate weight of a Golem I would rule he can drag or push it but not lift and carry.
If you could drag it, you could lift it. Push, Lift, Drag are all the same for a character.
Carrying capacity is separate from Push/Lift/Drag. You can lift 2400 lbs but you cannot carry 2400 lbs. I can lift a 2400 lb boulder blocking a doorway but I cannot then carry that boulder.
Hmmm.. could've sworn that carry capacity only referred to the amount of weight that you could carry unencumbered. You're right.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
->-> Bear Totem 6 = x2 carrying, 1200 lbs. Can move at full speed by default rules (40 feet for a 6th+ level barbarian), or at speed -20 using the variant rules (20 feet).
->->->Push/Drag/Lift = x2 carrying, 2400 lbs. Can lift and stand in place, or push/drag and move 5 feet/round.
OR, if >2400 lbs, 0 movement.
All of this "oh, he can move, but only with a litter" or "I'd make him start rolling for exhaustion" or "I'd make him roll an Athletics check" misses the scope of the rules. If the golem weighs 1200 lbs or less, he's moving either 20 or 40, all day long. If it's between 1200 and 2400, he's moving at 5, all day long. If it's over 2400, he's not moving at all. End of story. The only thing to determine here is how much the object weighs.
I have no real comment on the weight of a golem -- others have weighed in on that. (Yes, I went there with the pun.)
One concern I have is the player's behavior. It's one thing to make a single objection to what the DM has ruled and state your case, with page numbers from the PHB if necessary. If, after that, the DM still rules against you, then that's it. Further arguing is not really acceptable, at least during the game session. If the player wants to have an out-of-game conversation about it for future reference and you as a DM want to entertain that (IMO, you should), that's fine. But continuing to argue a point with the DM after the DM has ruled should be considered unacceptable behavior, and it certainly became so in my game group.
I say "became so" because 'twas not always thus. Yes, as a newbie player, in 8th grade or so, I did the same thing as your player. And I was right about the rules (maybe like your player, maybe not -- the posts here seem evenly divided). See I was in this castle, and I had a wand of lightning that could cast lightning bolts. And I was in a long corridor. The rules on lightning bolt at the time said it bounced off walls and other solid objects. I was fighting two wraiths. Wraiths were clearly described at the time as ghost-like, insubstantial beings. There was plenty of room down the corridor past the wraiths for the lightning not to bounce back, so I fired one off. And my friend the DM, ruled that the lightning bounced off the wraiths (damaging them in the process) and reflected back to hit my party.
I put up a huge argument. I flipped to the rule section about the spell, the rule section about the wraiths, and we proceeded to have a 20 minute debate, which I lost, because, the DM's word is final.
But I was not satisfied! I angrily got out my recycled paper and my eraser mate pen, and with my 8th grade penmanship, wrote out a page-and-a-half long letter to TSR, which at the time had an address where you could send them game questions. I mailed it away, and forgot about it. Something like a month later, I got an envelope back from them. They had sent me back my letter, marked up in red pen. Next to my statement that I thought lightning reflected off of walls, the person wrote "yes." Next to the statement about it reflecting off of wraiths, they wrote "no". I thought I was vindicated!
Then I turned the letter over, and found a half-page long missive upbraiding me for what I had done. Although I was technically correct about the rules, the TSR rep said, I should not have derailed a game session by arguing with the DM. It's more important to move the session along to the next part of the adventure. Stopping a session to argue with the DM is bad, and I shouldn't do it, they said. And they ended by reminding me the part of the rules that say that no matter what is printed in the books, the DM's word is absolute and final. And a good player accepts this and moves on. They stated in no uncertain terms that as a player, I was not supposed to argue with the DM.
I actually felt pretty terrible after reading that. By then I had started DMing too and been in the same kind of situation. DMs have to come up with all kinds of numbers and rulings on the fly, and players should not make their job harder by arguing with them. I showed my friend the letter and the response and apologized. We of course used their letter to help us understand going forward how lightning bolt is supposed to work, but we also took it as advice on how players and DMs should relate to each other. Yes we are friends. Yes the DM is supposed to be as fair and impartial as possible. But when the DM makes a ruling -- that's it. No arguments.
Your player may have been technically right or technically wrong about lifting ability and golem weight. I don't really care. What he's not supposed to be doing is continuing to argue about it with you and derailing your session. As a DM, once you have said something is final, it is final. No arguing allowed after that.
Carrying Capacity. Your carrying capacity is your Strength score multiplied by 15. This is the weight (in pounds) that you can carry, which is high enough that most characters don't usually have to worry about it.
Push, Drag, or Lift. You can push, drag, or lift a weight in pounds up to twice your carrying capacity (or 30 times your Strength score). While pushing or dragging weight in excess of your carrying capacity, your speed drops to 5 feet.
Size and Strength. Larger creatures can bear more weight, whereas Tiny creatures can carry less. For each size category above Medium, double the creature's carrying capacity and the amount it can push, drag, or lift. For a Tiny creature, halve these weights.
So a Totem Warrior Goliath with 20 Str (and choosing Bear as the 6th level feature) can lift a 2400lbs object normally. Anything more than that the DC to beat should go up, and any lower than that the DC to beat should go down.
1) The calculation of a 2400lb ability to lift/pull/drag 5'/turn looks to be accurate. The actual carry capacity would be 1200lbs. The math as mentioned is 20 str x 15 x 2(for large build) x2 for bear totem ability assuming they are a bear totem barbarian, which is 1200lbs.
2) However, the aspect being completely under estimated is how much the golem would weigh. 8' tall, 5' wide and a conservative 1' deep = 40 cubic feet of iron (assuming these things are solid). ONE cubic foot of iron is 491 pounds. 40 cubic feet of iron is 19,640lbs. Over 19 THOUSAND pounds. There is no way that barbarian can even budge the iron golem even with a lofty 2400lbs that they could pull lift or drag.
So the barbarian was half right in that they could barely move something weighing 2400lbs and they were completely incorrect in thinking that they were even remotely capable of budging even a small iron golem.
I'm not sure about the assumption that a golem is a solid block of iron; that sounds more like an animated iron statue to me, and even then, metal statues are often hollow. Golems often imply some degree of machinery/clockwork (OP even mentioned that it contains some sort of removable "core" and that it could be "dismantled", implying internal components and spaces), so I think comparing the golem to the weight of a small car might be closer. Then again, modern cars are often more plastic and aluminum than steel and have large open interiors to hold passengers and cargo, so I could certainly see an eight foot golem weighing four or five thousand pounds, even if it's smaller than a car.
dndbeyond.com forum tags
I'm going to make this way harder than it needs to be.
You could be correct. The monster manual doesn't state explicitly but golems are not clockworks according to the MM.
"Elemental Spirit in Material Form. The construction of a golem begins with the building of its body, requiring great command of the craft of sculpting, stonecutting, ironworking, or surgery. Sometimes a goIem's creator is the master of the art, but often the individual who desires a golem must enlist master artisans to do the work.
After constructing the body from clay, flesh, iron, or stone, the golem's creator infuses it with a spirit from the Elemental Plane of Earth. This tiny spark of life has no memory, personality, or history. It is simply the impetus to move and obey. This process binds the spirit to the artificial body and subjects it to the will of the golem's creator."
The body is sculped out of the correct material and infused with an earth elemental spirit. The body doesn't need joints or moving parts.
"IRON GOLEM
The mightiest of the golems, the iron golem is a massive, towering giant wrought of heavy metal. An iron golem's shape can be worked into any form, though most are fashioned to look like giant suits of armor. Its fist can destroy creatures with a single blow, and its clanging steps shake the earth beneath its feet. Iron golems wield enormous blades to extend their reach, and all can belch clouds of deadly poison. An iron golem's body is smelted with rare tinctures and admixtures. Though other golems bear weaknesses inherent in their materials or the power of the elemental spirit bound within them, iron golems were designed to be nearly invulnerable. Their iron bodies imprison the spirits that drive them, and are susceptible only to weapons imbued with magic or the strength of adamantine."
The iron golem is sculpted from iron. It is a DM call whether it needs to be solid or not. However, even a shell a couple of inches thick would take up more than 1/4 of the volume which would STILL be at least 10 cubic feet of iron weighing 4910 lbs and would STILL be too much weight for the barbarian to even lift, pull or drag 5'.
So, unless the DM allows the creation of iron golems using a relatively thin layer of iron to create the form of the golem then I'd say that the barbarian isn't moving a iron golem. (It requires somewhat less than a 3/4" thick iron shell to get the weight under 2400lbs ... leaving 10.5" of hollow space inside assuming a 1' total depth - and I didn't include the ends and sides in the estimate ... so likely more like 1/2" thick layer of iron - which is about 2200lbs ... so maybe slightly thicker :) ).
The bottom line is that iron is heavy and the barbarian can't move the golem unless the DM decides that the construction is a very thin shell.
P.S. Cars are mostly NOT made of iron and are mostly NOT solid. There is a lot of plastic. The frame might be steel. The quarterpanels could be plastic in some cases and in others very thin sheet metal. Cars aren't the best comparison for an iron golem.
Assuming they actually have Bear Aspect from level 6, yes, their Push/Drag/Lift limit is 2,400 lbs. I'd say that's a big if as the Bear Aspect is usually one of the least interesting options... especially if they've already got Powerful Build.
As others have mentioned, the likelihood of an Iron Golem weighing more than 2,400 lbs is extremely high, but that is completely up to you.
You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
Honestly, having Powerful Build would make me MORE likely to take Aspect Of The Bear, just to lean into that part of my character. If you're gonna be the strong guy, be The Strong Guy :)
Right? I have a character idea I call Lift, and just want to max out carry capacity.
On the topic of iron golems I think it is safe to assume that they are heavy af and exceed even the barb's mighty lift strength.
There is no way an Iron Golem weighs only 2400 lbs. No way. Not unless he is like 3 ft tall.
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
Is there no one smart enough in the party to create a litter for the Golem so the Barb can drag it? Make him suffer for it though, cut his movement speed in half, and a point of exhaustion for every hour he drags it, once he hits 3 points of exhaustion. Make him stop and rest! Has no one in the party got Enlarge/Reduce? Could shrink it and carry it easier, or a bag of holding (would that even hold it?)
From Within Chaos Comes Order!
I was watching a show like battle bots the other day and got some reference. The "house" robots were about waist high and weighed over 2000 lbs. So there's that, anyway; an 8 foot tall Golem would likely be at least twice that.
Weight scales with the cube of height, so going from 4 feet tall to 8 feet tall would lead to an 8-fold increase in weight. “At least twice that” is selling it short :p
True but those robots are filled with motors and such that are very heavy. Iron golems can be full of stuff in the same way or they can be hollow, that's really up to the DM.
Taking Bear at level 6 makes you a better Grappler. As to the OP, I had a similar situation where I needed to get a Manticore back to a town. I chose to drag it over the course of an hour because I like to show off. I couldn't lift it and carry it but I could drag it. Assuming 2400 is an accurate weight of a Golem I would rule he can drag or push it but not lift and carry.
If you could drag it, you could lift it. Push, Lift, Drag are all the same for a character.
You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
Carrying capacity is separate from Push/Lift/Drag. You can lift 2400 lbs but you cannot carry 2400 lbs. I can lift a 2400 lb boulder blocking a doorway but I cannot then carry that boulder.
Hmmm.. could've sworn that carry capacity only referred to the amount of weight that you could carry unencumbered. You're right.
You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
Carrying capacity is 15 x Strength. 20 strength = 300 lbs carrying.
-> Powerful Build (Goliath, Minotaur, Firbolg, etc) = x2 carrying, 600 lbs.
->-> Bear Totem 6 = x2 carrying, 1200 lbs. Can move at full speed by default rules (40 feet for a 6th+ level barbarian), or at speed -20 using the variant rules (20 feet).
->->->Push/Drag/Lift = x2 carrying, 2400 lbs. Can lift and stand in place, or push/drag and move 5 feet/round.
OR, if >2400 lbs, 0 movement.
All of this "oh, he can move, but only with a litter" or "I'd make him start rolling for exhaustion" or "I'd make him roll an Athletics check" misses the scope of the rules. If the golem weighs 1200 lbs or less, he's moving either 20 or 40, all day long. If it's between 1200 and 2400, he's moving at 5, all day long. If it's over 2400, he's not moving at all. End of story. The only thing to determine here is how much the object weighs.
dndbeyond.com forum tags
I'm going to make this way harder than it needs to be.
I have no real comment on the weight of a golem -- others have weighed in on that. (Yes, I went there with the pun.)
One concern I have is the player's behavior. It's one thing to make a single objection to what the DM has ruled and state your case, with page numbers from the PHB if necessary. If, after that, the DM still rules against you, then that's it. Further arguing is not really acceptable, at least during the game session. If the player wants to have an out-of-game conversation about it for future reference and you as a DM want to entertain that (IMO, you should), that's fine. But continuing to argue a point with the DM after the DM has ruled should be considered unacceptable behavior, and it certainly became so in my game group.
I say "became so" because 'twas not always thus. Yes, as a newbie player, in 8th grade or so, I did the same thing as your player. And I was right about the rules (maybe like your player, maybe not -- the posts here seem evenly divided). See I was in this castle, and I had a wand of lightning that could cast lightning bolts. And I was in a long corridor. The rules on lightning bolt at the time said it bounced off walls and other solid objects. I was fighting two wraiths. Wraiths were clearly described at the time as ghost-like, insubstantial beings. There was plenty of room down the corridor past the wraiths for the lightning not to bounce back, so I fired one off. And my friend the DM, ruled that the lightning bounced off the wraiths (damaging them in the process) and reflected back to hit my party.
I put up a huge argument. I flipped to the rule section about the spell, the rule section about the wraiths, and we proceeded to have a 20 minute debate, which I lost, because, the DM's word is final.
But I was not satisfied! I angrily got out my recycled paper and my eraser mate pen, and with my 8th grade penmanship, wrote out a page-and-a-half long letter to TSR, which at the time had an address where you could send them game questions. I mailed it away, and forgot about it. Something like a month later, I got an envelope back from them. They had sent me back my letter, marked up in red pen. Next to my statement that I thought lightning reflected off of walls, the person wrote "yes." Next to the statement about it reflecting off of wraiths, they wrote "no". I thought I was vindicated!
Then I turned the letter over, and found a half-page long missive upbraiding me for what I had done. Although I was technically correct about the rules, the TSR rep said, I should not have derailed a game session by arguing with the DM. It's more important to move the session along to the next part of the adventure. Stopping a session to argue with the DM is bad, and I shouldn't do it, they said. And they ended by reminding me the part of the rules that say that no matter what is printed in the books, the DM's word is absolute and final. And a good player accepts this and moves on. They stated in no uncertain terms that as a player, I was not supposed to argue with the DM.
I actually felt pretty terrible after reading that. By then I had started DMing too and been in the same kind of situation. DMs have to come up with all kinds of numbers and rulings on the fly, and players should not make their job harder by arguing with them. I showed my friend the letter and the response and apologized. We of course used their letter to help us understand going forward how lightning bolt is supposed to work, but we also took it as advice on how players and DMs should relate to each other. Yes we are friends. Yes the DM is supposed to be as fair and impartial as possible. But when the DM makes a ruling -- that's it. No arguments.
Your player may have been technically right or technically wrong about lifting ability and golem weight. I don't really care. What he's not supposed to be doing is continuing to argue about it with you and derailing your session. As a DM, once you have said something is final, it is final. No arguing allowed after that.
WOTC lies. We know that WOTC lies. WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. We know that WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. And still they lie.
Because of the above (a paraphrase from Orwell) I no longer post to the forums -- PM me if you need help or anything.
20x15=300x2=600x2=1200x2=2400
Strength=Lift=Goliath=Bear Totem=2400
So a Totem Warrior Goliath with 20 Str (and choosing Bear as the 6th level feature) can lift a 2400lbs object normally. Anything more than that the DC to beat should go up, and any lower than that the DC to beat should go down.
Check out my Homebrew Magic Items
Gnome mage comes out of nowhere, casts levitate and easily and quietly pushes the Iron Golem...……… problem solved, math and headache avoided.
D&D is a fantasy realm, the golem could weight 10 tons or it could be an empty animated shell weighing 5 pounds.