Can a multi class warlock/paladin regain all spell slots (even paladin slots) with a short rest? And Can you use warlock spell slots to use divine smite? Thank you
1. No, there are two different sources of spell slots provided in the game: "Spellcasting" spell slots (all spellcaster classes other than warlock), and "Pact Magic" spell slots. The multiclass caster rules largely describe what happens when you have the Spellcasting feature from more than one source, not when you have both Spellcasting and Pact Magic slots. A Paladin/Warlock will have the regular spell slots of a character on the multiclass spellcaster table of effective level = 1/2 paladin level, and those spell slots will refresh on a long rest as normally provided by the Paladin's Spellcasting feature. That character will also have the short-rest spell slots provided by their Warlock level.
2. Yes, (for the most part) spell slots are spell slots, as far as actually spending them to cast spells or fuel abilities, it's really just when you're recovering them that you need to treat them differently. A paladin's Divine Smite requires you to expend "one spell slot"; contrast that with a warlock's Eldritch Smite which requires you to expend "a warlock spell slot" specifically.
I really really wish they had called Pact Magic spell slots "pact slots" or something to avoid this confusion, but this is the slightly-muddled world we live in :/
I really really wish they had called Pact Magic spell slots "pact slots" or something to avoid this confusion, but this is the slightly-muddled world we live in :/
Calling warlock slot pact slots might have muddled the fact that you can use them to cast non-warlock spells and vice versa. But I still agree.
Considering that allowing Pact Magic spell slots and Spellcasting spell slots to be used interchangeably is one of the big causes of Coffeelock shennanigans and also the general proclivity of Warlocks to usually be multiclass characters.... honestly I think I'd rather live in a world where they weren't interchangeable!
Okay, new question. I think I already know the answer but I want to ask anyway. What about a Sorcerer/Bard multi class. Can all spell slots be used to convert spells into sorcery points? This might sound like a dumb question, probably all of my questions are, I am used to playing Pathfinder & even tho I had a DDB account from almost the beginning, my main game for the longest time was PF. So I am grateful for all the help. Thank you.
Not a stupid question. The Sorcerer Font of Magic feature provides that "Converting a Spell Slot to Sorcery Points. As a bonus action on your turn, you can expend one spell slot and gain a number of sorcery points equal to the slot’s level." Nothing about that specifies what kind of spell slots work or where they come from, if it's a spell slot, it can be burned for points.
I hate to over complicate everything. I just noticed that a basic Paladin/Warlock isn't even actually subject to the multiclass spellcasting rules yet, because those rules claim to only be in effect "once you have the Spellcasting feature from more than one class." Instead, a Paladin/Warlock has one instance of "Spellcasting" and one of "Pact Magic." That matters, because the multiclass spell slot table is a little slower than the Paladin's own spell slot progression on its own class table, so its very good that you get to look there instead of taking Paladin levels divided by 2 on the multiclass table.
Multiclassingdoes have a paragraph talking about multiclass characters with both Spellcasting spell slots (long rest) and Pact Magic spell slots (short rest), but really that paragraph should have appeared within the Warlock's rule text instead of in this chapter, because this entire section arguably doesn't apply until the Warlock multiclasses enough to be a Warlock/CasterA/CasterB hybrid >_<
We all know the rules are written like they were never proof read. I think we will just have to forgive the first paragraph of the multiclass spellcasting rules and NOT allow 1 level dips into warlock let a caster cast a level 9 spell every short rest.
1. No, there are two different sources of spell slots provided in the game: "Spellcasting" spell slots (all spellcaster classes other than warlock), and "Pact Magic" spell slots. The multiclass caster rules largely describe what happens when you have the Spellcasting feature from more than one source, not when you have both Spellcasting and Pact Magic slots.
A Paladin/Warlock will have the regular spell slots of a character on the multiclass spellcaster table of effective level = 1/2 paladin level...
Wrong.
Warlocks do not have the spellcasting feature. Therefore, the multiclass caster rules for combining spellcasters and its accompanying "multiclass spellcaster table of effective level" do NOT apply to a paladin/warlock multiclass. Period. The game has been ruled this way since at least 2014.
If a player is running a Paladin 4/Warlock 3 character, the character has the full number of paladin slots and spells prepared as stated in the paladin class table for a level 4 paladin. The character will also have the warlock spells and slots as stated in the warlock class table for a level 3 warlock. Some people don't like this. Too bad. Opinions and personal feelings are NOT Rules As Written and if a DM rules against this then you're not playing D&D 5e; you're playing house rules.
The character can cast its warlock spells using its paladin slots and its paladin spells using its warlock slots. The character can also use both paladin AND warlock spell slots for any paladin and/or warlock smite. Only the warlock spell slots recover after a short rest; all paladin spell slots recover only after a long rest. Again, Rules As Written.
Life should not be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside in a cloud of smoke, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming "Wow! What a Ride!" - Hunter S. Thompson
When life is bleak, all hope is lost, a wall is at your back, you always have one option left...attack! Attack! ATTACK! - Me
We all know the rules are written like they were never proof read. I think we will just have to forgive the first paragraph of the multiclass spellcasting rules and NOT allow 1 level dips into warlock let a caster cast a level 9 spell every short rest.
I find Warlock interesting because, roleplay wise, it's probably the hardest class to multiclass into, which is ironic considering it's also probably the best class to take a single level dip just to get some kind of subclass-specific bonus (like the ever-popular Hex Warrior feature). However, it's the one class where you must make a bargain of some sort with an NPC... a Cleric doesn't need to actually track down a deity and speak to them to gain their powers, and Paladins are now just bound to an "oath", with no Gods involved unless the player wants them to be. But for a Warlock, if you want to be a Hexblade, you either have to just handwave the whole patron aspect of the class, or you need to find yourself a magic talking sword (or whatever the heck a Hexblade's patron is supposed to be) and make a deal.
I find Warlock interesting because, roleplay wise, it's probably the hardest class to multiclass into, which is ironic considering it's also probably the best class to take a single level dip just to get some kind of subclass-specific bonus (like the ever-popular Hex Warrior feature). However, it's the one class where you must make a bargain of some sort with an NPC... a Cleric doesn't need to actually track down a deity and speak to them to gain their powers, and Paladins are now just bound to an "oath", with no Gods involved unless the player wants them to be. But for a Warlock, if you want to be a Hexblade, you either have to just handwave the whole patron aspect of the class, or you need to find yourself a magic talking sword (or whatever the heck a Hexblade's patron is supposed to be) and make a deal.
I find it the easiest to role-play the multi class into, because you never have to justify any training or anything. When one of my players multiclassed into warlock, it went like this:
"I'm thinking about multiclassing into hexblade"
Next session, they had an opportunity to have a conversation with a warlock NPC, who already existed, and got to have weird, disturbing, dreams where they were offered power in exchange for ambiguous future favors.
Then later, a couple of my PCs came to the attention of some of the Archfey, and each got offered similar bargains. They were cowards, and didn't take it.
A paladin can easily justify becoming a warlock and make for a much more interesting and nuanced character that challenges not only the player but also the DM and other players at the table.
Justification can be as easy as being a Neutral vengeance paladin of Silvanus who also formed a Hexblade pact with the Raven Queen for the sole purpose of finding and defeating undead. The idea fits both deity and patron. Such a paladin may actually foreswear the use of any warlock abilities that even hint of a necromantic use in order to keep Good-aligned deities happy. Or a paladin can elect to learn 2 levels of warlock to become more combat effective without a Pact and be more able to carry out their deity's work in the world. Or a paladin can form a pact with the Great Old One Yad-Thaddag (the only one of H.P. Lovecrafts's Cthulhu-related Old Ones with a nature purely benevolent toward Life..look him up).
Paladins can also be a Dex-based build rather than Strength-based. A 14 Dex with half plate and shield and the Defense Fighting Style gives an AC of 18. Throw in use of the Shield spell and suddenly that medium armor paladin has AC 23 as a reaction.
Consider using ASIs for feats instead of increasing attributes. Plenty of effective paladin builds don't have a 20 Charisma; even group save buffs from 16 Charisma can be very useful. Vengeance/Hexblade pallocks can also use spell combinations such as Expeditious Retreat and Misty Step to dramatically improve their battlefield mobility. Using Eldritch Blast gives them the ability to hit a target 120 feet away with the damage of a heavy crossbow that requires no reload and can never be taken away.
Much more challenging for a DM but not overwhelmingly so, especially when the DM can run a NPC pallock with the same abilities. And the other players get a battlefield buddy that may not hit quite as hard all the time as they do but is great at supporting them with heals, food provisions, getting rid of disease and poisons, defensive spells, and even summoning a mount to haul loot (or wounded comrades) around.
As for deities versus patrons, they can either work together to try to outdo each other in supporting their shared "minion", work against each other in small, childish ways like insisting their minion drink each one's favorite beverage every time the minion stays in a tavern..(heavily peppered goat milk with warm beer, anyone?), or just watch the minion try to balance the requirements of the deity with that of the patron, like any good soap opera. The deity and patron sharing a tub of popcorn while whispering advice in the minion's ear is optional.
Life should not be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside in a cloud of smoke, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming "Wow! What a Ride!" - Hunter S. Thompson
When life is bleak, all hope is lost, a wall is at your back, you always have one option left...attack! Attack! ATTACK! - Me
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Can a multi class warlock/paladin regain all spell slots (even paladin slots) with a short rest? And Can you use warlock spell slots to use divine smite? Thank you
1. No, there are two different sources of spell slots provided in the game: "Spellcasting" spell slots (all spellcaster classes other than warlock), and "Pact Magic" spell slots. The multiclass caster rules largely describe what happens when you have the Spellcasting feature from more than one source, not when you have both Spellcasting and Pact Magic slots. A Paladin/Warlock will have the regular spell slots of a character on the multiclass spellcaster table of effective level = 1/2 paladin level, and those spell slots will refresh on a long rest as normally provided by the Paladin's Spellcasting feature. That character will also have the short-rest spell slots provided by their Warlock level.
2. Yes, (for the most part) spell slots are spell slots, as far as actually spending them to cast spells or fuel abilities, it's really just when you're recovering them that you need to treat them differently. A paladin's Divine Smite requires you to expend "one spell slot"; contrast that with a warlock's Eldritch Smite which requires you to expend "a warlock spell slot" specifically.
I really really wish they had called Pact Magic spell slots "pact slots" or something to avoid this confusion, but this is the slightly-muddled world we live in :/
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I'm going to make this way harder than it needs to be.
Hey Thank you for the help.
Calling warlock slot pact slots might have muddled the fact that you can use them to cast non-warlock spells and vice versa. But I still agree.
Considering that allowing Pact Magic spell slots and Spellcasting spell slots to be used interchangeably is one of the big causes of Coffeelock shennanigans and also the general proclivity of Warlocks to usually be multiclass characters.... honestly I think I'd rather live in a world where they weren't interchangeable!
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I'm going to make this way harder than it needs to be.
Okay, new question. I think I already know the answer but I want to ask anyway. What about a Sorcerer/Bard multi class. Can all spell slots be used to convert spells into sorcery points? This might sound like a dumb question, probably all of my questions are, I am used to playing Pathfinder & even tho I had a DDB account from almost the beginning, my main game for the longest time was PF. So I am grateful for all the help. Thank you.
Not a stupid question. The Sorcerer Font of Magic feature provides that "Converting a Spell Slot to Sorcery Points. As a bonus action on your turn, you can expend one spell slot and gain a number of sorcery points equal to the slot’s level." Nothing about that specifies what kind of spell slots work or where they come from, if it's a spell slot, it can be burned for points.
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I'm going to make this way harder than it needs to be.
Thank you all.
I hate to over complicate everything. I just noticed that a basic Paladin/Warlock isn't even actually subject to the multiclass spellcasting rules yet, because those rules claim to only be in effect "once you have the Spellcasting feature from more than one class." Instead, a Paladin/Warlock has one instance of "Spellcasting" and one of "Pact Magic." That matters, because the multiclass spell slot table is a little slower than the Paladin's own spell slot progression on its own class table, so its very good that you get to look there instead of taking Paladin levels divided by 2 on the multiclass table.
Multiclassing does have a paragraph talking about multiclass characters with both Spellcasting spell slots (long rest) and Pact Magic spell slots (short rest), but really that paragraph should have appeared within the Warlock's rule text instead of in this chapter, because this entire section arguably doesn't apply until the Warlock multiclasses enough to be a Warlock/CasterA/CasterB hybrid >_<
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I'm going to make this way harder than it needs to be.
We all know the rules are written like they were never proof read. I think we will just have to forgive the first paragraph of the multiclass spellcasting rules and NOT allow 1 level dips into warlock let a caster cast a level 9 spell every short rest.
Correct.
Wrong.
Warlocks do not have the spellcasting feature. Therefore, the multiclass caster rules for combining spellcasters and its accompanying "multiclass spellcaster table of effective level" do NOT apply to a paladin/warlock multiclass. Period. The game has been ruled this way since at least 2014.
If a player is running a Paladin 4/Warlock 3 character, the character has the full number of paladin slots and spells prepared as stated in the paladin class table for a level 4 paladin. The character will also have the warlock spells and slots as stated in the warlock class table for a level 3 warlock. Some people don't like this. Too bad. Opinions and personal feelings are NOT Rules As Written and if a DM rules against this then you're not playing D&D 5e; you're playing house rules.
The character can cast its warlock spells using its paladin slots and its paladin spells using its warlock slots. The character can also use both paladin AND warlock spell slots for any paladin and/or warlock smite. Only the warlock spell slots recover after a short rest; all paladin spell slots recover only after a long rest. Again, Rules As Written.
Life should not be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside in a cloud of smoke, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming "Wow! What a Ride!"
- Hunter S. Thompson
When life is bleak, all hope is lost, a wall is at your back, you always have one option left...attack! Attack! ATTACK!
- Me
I find Warlock interesting because, roleplay wise, it's probably the hardest class to multiclass into, which is ironic considering it's also probably the best class to take a single level dip just to get some kind of subclass-specific bonus (like the ever-popular Hex Warrior feature). However, it's the one class where you must make a bargain of some sort with an NPC... a Cleric doesn't need to actually track down a deity and speak to them to gain their powers, and Paladins are now just bound to an "oath", with no Gods involved unless the player wants them to be. But for a Warlock, if you want to be a Hexblade, you either have to just handwave the whole patron aspect of the class, or you need to find yourself a magic talking sword (or whatever the heck a Hexblade's patron is supposed to be) and make a deal.
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I find it the easiest to role-play the multi class into, because you never have to justify any training or anything. When one of my players multiclassed into warlock, it went like this:
"I'm thinking about multiclassing into hexblade"
Next session, they had an opportunity to have a conversation with a warlock NPC, who already existed, and got to have weird, disturbing, dreams where they were offered power in exchange for ambiguous future favors.
Then later, a couple of my PCs came to the attention of some of the Archfey, and each got offered similar bargains. They were cowards, and didn't take it.
A paladin can easily justify becoming a warlock and make for a much more interesting and nuanced character that challenges not only the player but also the DM and other players at the table.
Justification can be as easy as being a Neutral vengeance paladin of Silvanus who also formed a Hexblade pact with the Raven Queen for the sole purpose of finding and defeating undead. The idea fits both deity and patron. Such a paladin may actually foreswear the use of any warlock abilities that even hint of a necromantic use in order to keep Good-aligned deities happy. Or a paladin can elect to learn 2 levels of warlock to become more combat effective without a Pact and be more able to carry out their deity's work in the world. Or a paladin can form a pact with the Great Old One Yad-Thaddag (the only one of H.P. Lovecrafts's Cthulhu-related Old Ones with a nature purely benevolent toward Life..look him up).
Paladins can also be a Dex-based build rather than Strength-based. A 14 Dex with half plate and shield and the Defense Fighting Style gives an AC of 18. Throw in use of the Shield spell and suddenly that medium armor paladin has AC 23 as a reaction.
Consider using ASIs for feats instead of increasing attributes. Plenty of effective paladin builds don't have a 20 Charisma; even group save buffs from 16 Charisma can be very useful. Vengeance/Hexblade pallocks can also use spell combinations such as Expeditious Retreat and Misty Step to dramatically improve their battlefield mobility. Using Eldritch Blast gives them the ability to hit a target 120 feet away with the damage of a heavy crossbow that requires no reload and can never be taken away.
Much more challenging for a DM but not overwhelmingly so, especially when the DM can run a NPC pallock with the same abilities. And the other players get a battlefield buddy that may not hit quite as hard all the time as they do but is great at supporting them with heals, food provisions, getting rid of disease and poisons, defensive spells, and even summoning a mount to haul loot (or wounded comrades) around.
As for deities versus patrons, they can either work together to try to outdo each other in supporting their shared "minion", work against each other in small, childish ways like insisting their minion drink each one's favorite beverage every time the minion stays in a tavern..(heavily peppered goat milk with warm beer, anyone?), or just watch the minion try to balance the requirements of the deity with that of the patron, like any good soap opera. The deity and patron sharing a tub of popcorn while whispering advice in the minion's ear is optional.
Life should not be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside in a cloud of smoke, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming "Wow! What a Ride!"
- Hunter S. Thompson
When life is bleak, all hope is lost, a wall is at your back, you always have one option left...attack! Attack! ATTACK!
- Me