Not going to bore you all with my current game, just need to know if i'm playing this ALL WRONG.
So my current character is using A rapier, a hand crossbow, and a shield. Despite all that, i'm currently able to reload and attack with the crossbow each turn (without putting away anything). I was looking to pick up the crossbow expert feat, but if i'm already doing this wrong, i don't want to waste a feat on something i can't actually use. Is this just a case of "get your DM to OK it" or do i need to change my play style?
How are you able to wield a shield and a weapon in the same hand at the same time?
honest answer. In my mind, it was less a HAND crossbow and more like this mounted thing that went over your arm. Kind of like a bracer with a small crossbow on top of it.
Though i do thank you for your reply. seeing it put that way 10,000% makes me think how impossible it would be to monkey fist a shield and weapon at the same time
Equipping a shield or unequipping a shield takes 1 Action. If you have a shield in a hand, you can do nothing else with that hand until you've unequipped the shield.
Also, remember a hand crossbow has the ammunition property. Your options without the feat are
Wield rapier, wear shield. No issue.
Wield rapier, wield crossbow. You can only use one weapon per turn. You may fire the crossbow once, but must then put your rapier away to reload it.
Wield crossbow, wear shield. You may fire the crossbow once, but must then put your shield away to reload it.
With crossbow expert, you could attack with rapier and crossbow in the same turn, but still need to put your rapier away to reload (this is an extremely marginal use case, the main reasons to take crossbow expert are to use it at close range or when you are high enough level to have multiple attacks).
With crossbow expert, you could attack with rapier and crossbow in the same turn, but still need to put your rapier away to reload (this is an extremely marginal use case, the main reasons to take crossbow expert are to use it at close range or when you are high enough level to have multiple attacks).
Not quite right, it's a reliable enough way to get a bonus ranged attack every single round.
I've seen some disagreement about whether you can generally be considered to be starting combat with "one in the chamber" on crossbows, but all that really effects in the rotation is whether you sheathe your sword before or after making your first attack in the rotation. It in no way impacts the number of attacks you get, unless you stubbornly refuse to sheathe your sword in the first round.
With Crossbow Expert on rounds you start with sword and bow both wielded:
Slash with Rapier, sheathe sword with 1/turn free interaction, Load & Shoot with Crossbow as bonus
OR sheathe sword with 1/turn free interaction, Load & Shoot with crossbow, Reload & Shoot with crossbow as bonus
With Crossbow expert on rounds you start with the sword sheathed and bow wielded:
Reload & Shoot with Crossbow, Reload & Shoot with Crossbow as bonus, draw sword 1/turn free action (go back to first round above)
OR Draw sword 1/turn free interaction, Slash with Sword, XXCrossbow is empty and no free handXX (go back to first round above) (no bonus)
So essentially it lets you get bonus attacks just fine right at level 1 as intended as long as you do a mixed-range-mixed round rotation, but it will hiccup if you ever try to do a mixed-melee rotation. Having multiple attacks per action and the Dual Wielder feat will largely eradicate the hiccups though, by letting you both draw and sheathe your rapier in the same round so that you can have a free hand whenever you need it.
I'll add, the Shield in no way works with or without the rapier, it just takes too long to put on since it can't be free swapped like a weapon can.
What would work for your build is to take both Crossbow Expert and Dual Wielder. This would give you a +1 AC Bonus whenever you have the sword in hand, and with Dual Wielder you won't ever need to end a round with it sheathed because you'll have ample interactions to get it back in hand after you're done shooting.
That would be my recommendation of how to fix what you've got going on here, two feats: Crossbow Expert and Dual Wielder.
EDIT: I'm dumb, I thought you just needed to wield two weapons, it's two melee weapons for the +1 AC Bonus. Too hard. Defensive Duelist might be helpful, but now you're up to three feats, woof.
With crossbow expert, you could attack with rapier and crossbow in the same turn, but still need to put your rapier away to reload (this is an extremely marginal use case, the main reasons to take crossbow expert are to use it at close range or when you are high enough level to have multiple attacks).
Not quite right, it's a reliable enough way to get a bonus ranged attack every single round.
True (ugh, weapon juggling), though it means every other round you don't have a weapon available for an opportunity attack
How are you able to wield a shield and a weapon in the same hand at the same time?
honest answer. In my mind, it was less a HAND crossbow and more like this mounted thing that went over your arm. Kind of like a bracer with a small crossbow on top of it.
Though i do thank you for your reply. seeing it put that way 10,000% makes me think how impossible it would be to monkey fist a shield and weapon at the same time
I do like this idea of like... a wrist-mounted crossbow. It'd be a cool little thing to allow a melee character to have a ranged attack ready for emergencies while still wielding a sword and shield. I might homebrew something based on this... I'll probably just have it launch darts, though, to keep it from being too powerful.
I do like this idea of like... a wrist-mounted crossbow. It'd be a cool little thing to allow a melee character to have a ranged attack ready for emergencies while still wielding a sword and shield. I might homebrew something based on this... I'll probably just have it launch darts, though, to keep it from being too powerful.
Yeah it's a cool idea, but maybe something your character has to invent. I'd say it's a good opportunity for your DM to let you use any tool proficiencies anyone in the party might have, and how well you/your party member makes it can determine whether it's single use, or whether it can shoot bolts or just darts.
While crafting rules are slim in 5e, that doesn't make crafting not an option. There's a lot of unique solutions you might be able to arrive at simply by asking your DM if you can use your skills to create something new to suit your needs. DM's love the opportunity to reward creative gameplay.
If you're designing something that can be used to attack but doesn't take a hand to wield, the simplest way to balance it would probably be to have it take a full action to reload. Then you can get some sort of fancy opening shot, or use it for one round when you're not in melee or something, but the risk of unintended over-optimization is limited because it won't be an attractive round-to-round replacement for actually pulling out a crossbow or bow or whatever that you should really be using if that's what your character is about.
I don't think you really need to be super concerned with balance when talking about created items. If the DM thinks what you designed is unbalanced, they'll give you a higher DC and maybe give you extra consequences for failure.
It's actually a free action to draw, stow, drop, or interact with an item on your turn....
Other Activity on Your Turn
Your turn can include a variety of flourishes that require neither your action nor your move.
You can communicate however you are able, through brief utterances and gestures, as you take your turn.
You can also interact with one object or feature of the environment for free, during either your move or your action. For example, you could open a door during your move as you stride toward a foe, or you could draw your weapon as part of the same action you use to attack.
If you want to interact with a second object, you need to use your action. Some magic items and other special objects always require an action to use, as stated in their descriptions.
The DM might require you to use an action for any of these activities when it needs special care or when it presents an unusual obstacle. For instance, the DM could reasonably expect you to use an action to open a stuck door or turn a crank to lower a drawbridge.
I stuck with a dart since it's only a d4, and gave it a limited, but manageable clip size. The idea was definitely to be less ideal than just pulling out a crossbow, but still allows a melee-focused fighter with both hands occupied the ability to contribute in ranged combat. Although there's also potential to use it as a sort of spy gadget to deliver a poisoned dart subtly.
Not going to bore you all with my current game, just need to know if i'm playing this ALL WRONG.
So my current character is using A rapier, a hand crossbow, and a shield. Despite all that, i'm currently able to reload and attack with the crossbow each turn (without putting away anything). I was looking to pick up the crossbow expert feat, but if i'm already doing this wrong, i don't want to waste a feat on something i can't actually use. Is this just a case of "get your DM to OK it" or do i need to change my play style?
How are you able to wield a shield and a weapon in the same hand at the same time?
DCI: 3319125026
honest answer. In my mind, it was less a HAND crossbow and more like this mounted thing that went over your arm. Kind of like a bracer with a small crossbow on top of it.
Though i do thank you for your reply. seeing it put that way 10,000% makes me think how impossible it would be to monkey fist a shield and weapon at the same time
Equipping a shield or unequipping a shield takes 1 Action. If you have a shield in a hand, you can do nothing else with that hand until you've unequipped the shield.
Also, remember a hand crossbow has the ammunition property. Your options without the feat are
With crossbow expert, you could attack with rapier and crossbow in the same turn, but still need to put your rapier away to reload (this is an extremely marginal use case, the main reasons to take crossbow expert are to use it at close range or when you are high enough level to have multiple attacks).
Not quite right, it's a reliable enough way to get a bonus ranged attack every single round.
I've seen some disagreement about whether you can generally be considered to be starting combat with "one in the chamber" on crossbows, but all that really effects in the rotation is whether you sheathe your sword before or after making your first attack in the rotation. It in no way impacts the number of attacks you get, unless you stubbornly refuse to sheathe your sword in the first round.
With Crossbow Expert on rounds you start with sword and bow both wielded:
With Crossbow expert on rounds you start with the sword sheathed and bow wielded:
So essentially it lets you get bonus attacks just fine right at level 1 as intended as long as you do a mixed-range-mixed round rotation, but it will hiccup if you ever try to do a mixed-melee rotation. Having multiple attacks per action and the Dual Wielder feat will largely eradicate the hiccups though, by letting you both draw and sheathe your rapier in the same round so that you can have a free hand whenever you need it.
dndbeyond.com forum tags
I'm going to make this way harder than it needs to be.
I'll add, the Shield in no way works with or without the rapier, it just takes too long to put on since it can't be free swapped like a weapon can.
What would work for your build is to take both Crossbow Expert and Dual Wielder. This would give you a +1 AC Bonus whenever you have the sword in hand, and with Dual Wielder you won't ever need to end a round with it sheathed because you'll have ample interactions to get it back in hand after you're done shooting.That would be my recommendation of how to fix what you've got going on here, two feats: Crossbow Expert and Dual Wielder.EDIT: I'm dumb, I thought you just needed to wield two weapons, it's two melee weapons for the +1 AC Bonus. Too hard. Defensive Duelist might be helpful, but now you're up to three feats, woof.
dndbeyond.com forum tags
I'm going to make this way harder than it needs to be.
True (ugh, weapon juggling), though it means every other round you don't have a weapon available for an opportunity attack
I choose to just pick up spell sniper. Figure Eldrich blast was just as good (if not better) then a hand cross bow, since i'm a ******* bard.
I do like this idea of like... a wrist-mounted crossbow. It'd be a cool little thing to allow a melee character to have a ranged attack ready for emergencies while still wielding a sword and shield. I might homebrew something based on this... I'll probably just have it launch darts, though, to keep it from being too powerful.
Watch Crits for Breakfast, an adults-only RP-Heavy Roll20 Livestream at twitch.tv/afterdisbooty
And now you too can play with the amazing art and assets we use in Roll20 for our campaign at Hazel's Emporium
Yeah it's a cool idea, but maybe something your character has to invent. I'd say it's a good opportunity for your DM to let you use any tool proficiencies anyone in the party might have, and how well you/your party member makes it can determine whether it's single use, or whether it can shoot bolts or just darts.
While crafting rules are slim in 5e, that doesn't make crafting not an option. There's a lot of unique solutions you might be able to arrive at simply by asking your DM if you can use your skills to create something new to suit your needs. DM's love the opportunity to reward creative gameplay.
If you're designing something that can be used to attack but doesn't take a hand to wield, the simplest way to balance it would probably be to have it take a full action to reload. Then you can get some sort of fancy opening shot, or use it for one round when you're not in melee or something, but the risk of unintended over-optimization is limited because it won't be an attractive round-to-round replacement for actually pulling out a crossbow or bow or whatever that you should really be using if that's what your character is about.
dndbeyond.com forum tags
I'm going to make this way harder than it needs to be.
I don't think you really need to be super concerned with balance when talking about created items. If the DM thinks what you designed is unbalanced, they'll give you a higher DC and maybe give you extra consequences for failure.
It's actually a free action to draw, stow, drop, or interact with an item on your turn....
Other Activity on Your Turn
Your turn can include a variety of flourishes that require neither your action nor your move.
You can communicate however you are able, through brief utterances and gestures, as you take your turn.
You can also interact with one object or feature of the environment for free, during either your move or your action. For example, you could open a door during your move as you stride toward a foe, or you could draw your weapon as part of the same action you use to attack.
If you want to interact with a second object, you need to use your action. Some magic items and other special objects always require an action to use, as stated in their descriptions.
The DM might require you to use an action for any of these activities when it needs special care or when it presents an unusual obstacle. For instance, the DM could reasonably expect you to use an action to open a stuck door or turn a crank to lower a drawbridge.
I went ahead and made a quick homebrew of this wrist-mounted ranged weapon idea:
https://www.dndbeyond.com/magic-items/1276011-wrist-mounted-dart-launcher
I stuck with a dart since it's only a d4, and gave it a limited, but manageable clip size. The idea was definitely to be less ideal than just pulling out a crossbow, but still allows a melee-focused fighter with both hands occupied the ability to contribute in ranged combat. Although there's also potential to use it as a sort of spy gadget to deliver a poisoned dart subtly.
Watch Crits for Breakfast, an adults-only RP-Heavy Roll20 Livestream at twitch.tv/afterdisbooty
And now you too can play with the amazing art and assets we use in Roll20 for our campaign at Hazel's Emporium