I am trying to understand how you can cast Darkness on yourself and have it mobile with you. I'm currently playing a Shadow Monk who is dipping several levels into Warlock and will have Devil's Sight soon.
So, with Darkness it states that you can cast it on an object that you are holding, but NOT one that is being carried. I'm unsure of what the distinction is between what is being held and what is being carried. Could I cast it on my staff?
The two interpretations I have are either:
A) Carried items are things on your person but not necessarily wearing, such as rations and things like that in your bag. In this case, darkness is able to be cast on the staff.
B) Carried items are anything that you move (carry) from one location to another, and held items are just when you're stationary. Would not be able to cast darkness on staff in this interpretation.
I've seen other threads that just hand-wave it and say things like, "Shadow monks are great because you can just cast darkness on yourself, take 2 levels into Warlock... yada yada yada" which doesn't FEEL correct, if that makes sense.
Please clarify with any references if possible for me to help show my DM one way or the other. Cheers!
If the point you choose is on an object you are holding or one that isn't being worn or carried, the darkness emanates from the object and moves with it.
If you cast it on something you're holding, or something you are not wearing or carrying, then the darkness stays with and moves with that object. If you are wearing or carrying the object, then the darkness stays with you as well.
It's kind of strangely worded, I think it's just trying to say if you cast it on an object it moves when that object moves. For example, you could cast it on a stone which you then throw through a window.
The reason for the distinction is so you can't cast it on an object being held or worn by a different creature. You can cast it on an object you are wearing or carrying. The two options are broken up by an "or."
"It's kind of strangely worded, I think it's just trying to say if you cast it on an object it moves when that object moves. For example, you could cast it on a stone which you then throw through a window."
This paragraph helped a lot and showed me what the actual intent was of that sentence on a second reading.
So, you COULD cast it on yourself, saying the point is your forehead or something similar?
"It's kind of strangely worded, I think it's just trying to say if you cast it on an object it moves when that object moves. For example, you could cast it on a stone which you then throw through a window."
This paragraph helped a lot and showed me what the actual intent was of that sentence on a second reading.
So, you COULD cast it on yourself, saying the point is your forehead or something similar?
No, it has to be an object. Your forehead is part of your person. Cast it on something inside a locket so you can open and close it at will. If you don't have a prepared object like that, cast it on a coin that you hold in your teeth, now you can cover yourself in darkness by smiling.
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Canto alla vita alla sua bellezza ad ogni sua ferita ogni sua carezza!
I sing to life and to its tragic beauty To pain and to strife, but all that dances through me The rise and the fall, I've lived through it all!
The reason for the distinction is so you can't cast it on an object being held or worn by a different creature. You can cast it on an object you are wearing or carrying. The two options are broken up by an "or."
No, it has to be an object. Your forehead is part of your person. Cast it on something inside a locket so you can open and close it at will. If you don't have a prepared object like that, cast it on a coin that you hold in your teeth, now you can cover yourself in darkness by smiling.
I don't think it needs to be an object...it needs to be a 'point' (which isn't really defined)....it then goes on to say 'if the point is an object'
No, it has to be an object. Your forehead is part of your person. Cast it on something inside a locket so you can open and close it at will. If you don't have a prepared object like that, cast it on a coin that you hold in your teeth, now you can cover yourself in darkness by smiling.
I don't think it needs to be an object...it needs to be a 'point' (which isn't really defined)....it then goes on to say 'if the point is an object...' so the only way to get it to move is to cast it on an object. if you say you're putting it on your forehead, its really going at the point where your forehead currently is...when your forehead moves, that point doesn't.
that way you don't have to drop it on the ground (in which case you'd see only the top half of a black circle)...you can place it at a point in space above the ground
No, it has to be an object. Your forehead is part of your person. Cast it on something inside a locket so you can open and close it at will. If you don't have a prepared object like that, cast it on a coin that you hold in your teeth, now you can cover yourself in darkness by smiling.
I don't think it needs to be an object...it needs to be a 'point' (which isn't really defined)....it then goes on to say 'if the point is an object'
Yes, I know the spell can be cast on a point, but I was responding to someone asking about casting it on one's self and moving with it. The only way to do that is to cast it on a object that one can carry.
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Canto alla vita alla sua bellezza ad ogni sua ferita ogni sua carezza!
I sing to life and to its tragic beauty To pain and to strife, but all that dances through me The rise and the fall, I've lived through it all!
The reason for the distinction is so you can't cast it on an object being held or worn by a different creature. You can cast it on an object you are wearing or carrying. The two options are broken up by an "or."
I"the point you choose is on an object you are holding or one that isn't being worn or carried, the darkness emanates from the object and moves with it."
This statement doesn't specify at all that it's talking about a different creature wearing or carrying. If I cast it on my armor, for example, then it goes against what the spell says. It can't be on something being worn or carried.
Holding a locket or coin doesn't count as carrying it as you move?
The target can be something worn or carried as long as it is worn or carried by the caster.
"If the point you choose is on an object you are holding or one that isn't being worn or carried, the darkness emanates from the object and moves with it. Completely covering the source of the darkness with an opaque object, such as a bowl or a helm, blocks the darkness."
So the legal targets that can move are 1) and object you are holding or 2) one that isn't being worn or carried.
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Canto alla vita alla sua bellezza ad ogni sua ferita ogni sua carezza!
I sing to life and to its tragic beauty To pain and to strife, but all that dances through me The rise and the fall, I've lived through it all!
Also it still doesn't count as holding it if you're wearing it, right? So armor should still be a no-go, but weapons are good because you're actually holding.
Also it still doesn't count as holding it if you're wearing it, right? So armor should still be a no-go, but weapons are good because you're actually holding.
Yeah... how are people not understanding that? The spell text is very clear that the darkness will only travel with: an object that is being held in your hand, or not being worn/carried by any creature. Darkness will move with the object when:
You cast it on a weapon/shield/focus that is being actively held in your hand. You cast it on any conceivable object that is being held in your hand. You can cast it on an arrow/bolt/bullet in your hand which can then be fired. You can cast it on a stationary object that can be picked up/thrown/kicked/pushed/pulled.
What you cannot do is cast it on an object being worn (clothing, armor, jewelry, etc), or on an object being carried (in a pouch, backpack, sheathed, strapped to body, etc). This is without regard to which creature is wearing/interacting with it. You also cannot cast it on an object being held by a different creature than the caster.
You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
I think the RAI on Darkness is in line with what Dx said above, prohibiting it being cast on an object "being worn or carried [by another creature]." I'm not sure why you would be able to cast it on an amulet in your hand, throw that amulet around the room, cover the amulet up with a bowl, pick it up and put it in your pocket, pick it up and wear it, etc... but not be able to cast it on the amulet if you're already wearing it instead of holding it. But you are right, that is the most literal way to read the text, just seems odd.
Contrast Darkness with Light. 90% of the spell functions the same way, the same interaction with covering the object, etc, but the wording is completely different. You just "target an object" not "a point you choose" that might be an object. You explicitly can target objects "worn or held" by another creature (allowing them a save), but it makes no mention of "carried" as being a concept distinct from worn or held.
It just feels like Light and Darkness were meant to be more similar than they ended up being, but that editing didn't catch the difference between "worn or carried" and "worn or held". But, that's just my speculation on RAI.... literal RAW, y'all may be right, the spell says you can't cast it on a worn or carried (non-held) object at all.
I think the opposite is true: both spells were meant to be less similar than they appear. Darkness is powerful; it provides a compound benefit to the caster in the form of advantage to their attacks, and disadvantage to enemy attacks. Light is still powerful, but not nearly as much. It provides a benefit in the form of being able to see (potentially flipping advantage/disadvantage back to neutrality), but it also has the drawback of making you very visible to other creatures that may ambush you. I think they purposefully intended to make transporting Darkness less cheesy.
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You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
Holding a locket or coin doesn't count as carrying it as you move?
Thats a grey area. Like if you are a pact of the chain warlock for instance, I would argue you can cast it on a pebble or coin you are holding in your hand, give it to your Imp (object interaction, not an Action) and now your Imp can fly around with darkness. The imp isn't "carrying" the pebble or coin, its holding it in its hand. Maybe semantics, but I feel like you carry something using lift action to take it from point A to point B, you hold something you grasp for a purpose. So you can both hold and carry a weapon, but you hold it in battle, you carry it while walking through a town. Since this is occurring in combat i'd say the Imp isn't carrying the pebble or coin from place to place, its holding it for a purpose.
Again, a DM that doesn't want to deal with their warlock always getting advantage attacking and disadvantage against attacks may rule against it just to make it easier on them.
Also it still doesn't count as holding it if you're wearing it, right? So armor should still be a no-go, but weapons are good because you're actually holding.
Yeah... how are people not understanding that? The spell text is very clear that the darkness will only travel with: an object that is being held in your hand, or not being worn/carried by any creature. Darkness will move with the object when:
You cast it on a weapon/shield/focus that is being actively held in your hand. You cast it on any conceivable object that is being held in your hand. You can cast it on an arrow/bolt/bullet in your hand which can then be fired. You can cast it on a stationary object that can be picked up/thrown/kicked/pushed/pulled.
What you cannot do is cast it on an object being worn (clothing, armor, jewelry, etc), or on an object being carried (in a pouch, backpack, sheathed, strapped to body, etc). This is without regard to which creature is wearing/interacting with it. You also cannot cast it on an object being held by a different creature than the caster.
So you would agree as long as the origin of the spell starts with something you are holding, you could then hand the darkness covered object to an ally or a familiar (only one that is capable of actually holding something) and that would be fine? That is my interpretation at least, just the origin of the spell must an object be held by the caster, after that it can be held by anyone else (or in your examples shot out of a bow or gun)
Hello!
I am trying to understand how you can cast Darkness on yourself and have it mobile with you. I'm currently playing a Shadow Monk who is dipping several levels into Warlock and will have Devil's Sight soon.
So, with Darkness it states that you can cast it on an object that you are holding, but NOT one that is being carried. I'm unsure of what the distinction is between what is being held and what is being carried. Could I cast it on my staff?
The two interpretations I have are either:
A) Carried items are things on your person but not necessarily wearing, such as rations and things like that in your bag. In this case, darkness is able to be cast on the staff.
B) Carried items are anything that you move (carry) from one location to another, and held items are just when you're stationary. Would not be able to cast darkness on staff in this interpretation.
I've seen other threads that just hand-wave it and say things like, "Shadow monks are great because you can just cast darkness on yourself, take 2 levels into Warlock... yada yada yada" which doesn't FEEL correct, if that makes sense.
Please clarify with any references if possible for me to help show my DM one way or the other. Cheers!
This is what the spell darkness says.
If you cast it on something you're holding, or something you are not wearing or carrying, then the darkness stays with and moves with that object. If you are wearing or carrying the object, then the darkness stays with you as well.
It's kind of strangely worded, I think it's just trying to say if you cast it on an object it moves when that object moves. For example, you could cast it on a stone which you then throw through a window.
The reason for the distinction is so you can't cast it on an object being held or worn by a different creature. You can cast it on an object you are wearing or carrying. The two options are broken up by an "or."
Ok, I'm straight.
"It's kind of strangely worded, I think it's just trying to say if you cast it on an object it moves when that object moves. For example, you could cast it on a stone which you then throw through a window."
This paragraph helped a lot and showed me what the actual intent was of that sentence on a second reading.
So, you COULD cast it on yourself, saying the point is your forehead or something similar?
No, it has to be an object. Your forehead is part of your person. Cast it on something inside a locket so you can open and close it at will. If you don't have a prepared object like that, cast it on a coin that you hold in your teeth, now you can cover yourself in darkness by smiling.
Canto alla vita
alla sua bellezza
ad ogni sua ferita
ogni sua carezza!
I sing to life and to its tragic beauty
To pain and to strife, but all that dances through me
The rise and the fall, I've lived through it all!
Ah, makes sense.
I don't think it needs to be an object...it needs to be a 'point' (which isn't really defined)....it then goes on to say 'if the point is an object'
Guide to the Five Factions (PWYW)
Deck of Decks
I don't think it needs to be an object...it needs to be a 'point' (which isn't really defined)....it then goes on to say 'if the point is an object...' so the only way to get it to move is to cast it on an object. if you say you're putting it on your forehead, its really going at the point where your forehead currently is...when your forehead moves, that point doesn't.
that way you don't have to drop it on the ground (in which case you'd see only the top half of a black circle)...you can place it at a point in space above the ground
Guide to the Five Factions (PWYW)
Deck of Decks
Holding a locket or coin doesn't count as carrying it as you move?
Yes, I know the spell can be cast on a point, but I was responding to someone asking about casting it on one's self and moving with it. The only way to do that is to cast it on a object that one can carry.
Canto alla vita
alla sua bellezza
ad ogni sua ferita
ogni sua carezza!
I sing to life and to its tragic beauty
To pain and to strife, but all that dances through me
The rise and the fall, I've lived through it all!
I"the point you choose is on an object you are holding or one that isn't being worn or carried, the darkness emanates from the object and moves with it."
This statement doesn't specify at all that it's talking about a different creature wearing or carrying. If I cast it on my armor, for example, then it goes against what the spell says. It can't be on something being worn or carried.
The target can be something worn or carried as long as it is worn or carried by the caster.
"If the point you choose is on an object you are holding or one that isn't being worn or carried, the darkness emanates from the object and moves with it. Completely covering the source of the darkness with an opaque object, such as a bowl or a helm, blocks the darkness."
So the legal targets that can move are 1) and object you are holding or 2) one that isn't being worn or carried.
Canto alla vita
alla sua bellezza
ad ogni sua ferita
ogni sua carezza!
I sing to life and to its tragic beauty
To pain and to strife, but all that dances through me
The rise and the fall, I've lived through it all!
Ok. I'm good for real this time. I feel dumb lol. Is there a SOLVED tag I can put on this?
Also it still doesn't count as holding it if you're wearing it, right? So armor should still be a no-go, but weapons are good because you're actually holding.
Yeah... how are people not understanding that? The spell text is very clear that the darkness will only travel with: an object that is being held in your hand, or not being worn/carried by any creature. Darkness will move with the object when:
You cast it on a weapon/shield/focus that is being actively held in your hand. You cast it on any conceivable object that is being held in your hand. You can cast it on an arrow/bolt/bullet in your hand which can then be fired. You can cast it on a stationary object that can be picked up/thrown/kicked/pushed/pulled.
What you cannot do is cast it on an object being worn (clothing, armor, jewelry, etc), or on an object being carried (in a pouch, backpack, sheathed, strapped to body, etc). This is without regard to which creature is wearing/interacting with it. You also cannot cast it on an object being held by a different creature than the caster.
You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
I think the RAI on Darkness is in line with what Dx said above, prohibiting it being cast on an object "being worn or carried [by another creature]." I'm not sure why you would be able to cast it on an amulet in your hand, throw that amulet around the room, cover the amulet up with a bowl, pick it up and put it in your pocket, pick it up and wear it, etc... but not be able to cast it on the amulet if you're already wearing it instead of holding it. But you are right, that is the most literal way to read the text, just seems odd.
Contrast Darkness with Light. 90% of the spell functions the same way, the same interaction with covering the object, etc, but the wording is completely different. You just "target an object" not "a point you choose" that might be an object. You explicitly can target objects "worn or held" by another creature (allowing them a save), but it makes no mention of "carried" as being a concept distinct from worn or held.
It just feels like Light and Darkness were meant to be more similar than they ended up being, but that editing didn't catch the difference between "worn or carried" and "worn or held". But, that's just my speculation on RAI.... literal RAW, y'all may be right, the spell says you can't cast it on a worn or carried (non-held) object at all.
dndbeyond.com forum tags
I'm going to make this way harder than it needs to be.
I think the opposite is true: both spells were meant to be less similar than they appear. Darkness is powerful; it provides a compound benefit to the caster in the form of advantage to their attacks, and disadvantage to enemy attacks. Light is still powerful, but not nearly as much. It provides a benefit in the form of being able to see (potentially flipping advantage/disadvantage back to neutrality), but it also has the drawback of making you very visible to other creatures that may ambush you. I think they purposefully intended to make transporting Darkness less cheesy.
You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
Thats a grey area. Like if you are a pact of the chain warlock for instance, I would argue you can cast it on a pebble or coin you are holding in your hand, give it to your Imp (object interaction, not an Action) and now your Imp can fly around with darkness. The imp isn't "carrying" the pebble or coin, its holding it in its hand. Maybe semantics, but I feel like you carry something using lift action to take it from point A to point B, you hold something you grasp for a purpose. So you can both hold and carry a weapon, but you hold it in battle, you carry it while walking through a town. Since this is occurring in combat i'd say the Imp isn't carrying the pebble or coin from place to place, its holding it for a purpose.
Again, a DM that doesn't want to deal with their warlock always getting advantage attacking and disadvantage against attacks may rule against it just to make it easier on them.
So you would agree as long as the origin of the spell starts with something you are holding, you could then hand the darkness covered object to an ally or a familiar (only one that is capable of actually holding something) and that would be fine? That is my interpretation at least, just the origin of the spell must an object be held by the caster, after that it can be held by anyone else (or in your examples shot out of a bow or gun)
Does it take an action to cover the obect, lets say with your hand or like you said opening closing your mouth with a coin in it?