Running out of the abyss and one of the pcs has been hit with a geas spell from the drow priestess. Does he have to obey her commands all the time or do the commands need to be specifically addressed to him?
Also I know its not like a command spell, but out of fear of the 5d10 psychic damage hes probably going to not resist, but what effect does the charmed condition play here? I always saw Geas as a magical shock collar, either do as your told or get punished, is this a good way of interping it? Any advice is greatly appreciated!
In my reading of the rules, Geas is not a "shock collar" and the spell does not require obedience.
"You place a magical command on a creature that you can see within range, forcing it to carry out some service or refrain from some action or course of activity as you decide. If the creature can understand you, it must succeed on a Wisdom saving throw or become charmed by you for the duration. While the creature is charmed by you, it takes 5d10 psychic damage each time it acts in a manner directly counter to your instructions, but no more than once each day. A creature that can't understand you is unaffected by the spell. You can issue any command you choose, short of an activity that would result in certain death. Should you issue a suicidal command, the spell ends. You can end the spell early by using an action to dismiss it. A remove curse, greater restoration, or wish spell also ends it."
You give the creature their instructions when the spell is cast. It is a magical command and the creature must try to complete the command by either attempting the specified task or refraining from whatever the creature was told not to do. Since the creature is charned it views the caster in a positive light. It only takes 5d10 damage if it acts directly counter to your command and this is limited to 1/day.
For an example, if a drow priestess cast geas on a character and told them "the drow are my friends you will not attack them" then the character would prefer not to attack the other drow. However the spell doesn't prevent them from doing so, they will just take 5d10 damage once per day for days when they do not follow the requirements of the geas. So if the character saw drow attacking other party members, he/she would likely ask the drow to stop and when they did not, he/she could attack them though the geas would then inflict 5d10 damage.
As for the charmed condition in this case, the character can't attack the priestess or target the priestess with harmful magical effects or abilities. The priestess would have advantage on any social rolls against the character, though DCs set for her would have to take into consideration that the PC likely still considers her an enemy.
Ah alright, might be in the wrong here then, but the command at the point of casting was that he follow her commands. Should I maybe try to retcon it to something else then?
Ah alright, might be in the wrong here then, but the command at the point of casting was that he follow her commands. Should I maybe try to retcon it to something else then?
“Obey me” is fine (the spell description explicitly says the command can be anything), with the caveats that the damage can only happen once per day and that if any suicidal command is issued, the spell immediately ends.
Geas is pretty close to the power of the king from Code Geass.
I don't think you can change the magical command after it is set (before the save). The consequences for disobeying are once per day, but there is no mention of being able to change the command.
"Obey me" is a legitimate command though. But if the target immediately covers their ears so they can't hear any more commands, they haven't disobeyed.
I think that's opened to interpretation. The act of covering their own ears to avoid hearing the commands is to directly oppose the command to obey the caster. An alternative is for someone else to cause the Deaf condition on the affected character.
EDIT: Message can still evade such tactics. If the spell is available, it could be a really good way to create a sleeper by using Message.
Human. Male. Possibly. Don't be a divider. My characters' backgrounds are written like instruction manuals rather than stories. My opinion and preferences don't mean you're wrong. I am 99.7603% convinced that the digital dice are messing with me. I roll high when nobody's looking and low when anyone else can see.🎲 “It's a bit early to be thinking about an epitaph. No?” will be my epitaph.
I think that's opened to interpretation. The act of covering their own ears to avoid hearing the commands is to directly oppose the command to obey the caster. An alternative is for someone else to cause the Deaf condition on the affected character.
EDIT: Message can still evade such tactics. If the spell is available, it could be a really good way to create a sleeper by using Message.
It isn't directly counter to "obey me". The opposite of "Obey me" is -well- not following an order you received. The opposite of covering your ears would be "listen to me" "pay attention to me" etc. Having not received the command to listen, not listening is not disobeying.
And yes there are ways around it and and ways around those ways around.
I think "Obey me" is too vague for the purpose of Geas. "Obey me" allows any number of commands to be followed and the spell states you issue only one command. It's like wishing for more wishes.
I think "Obey me" is too vague for the purpose of Geas. "Obey me" allows any number of commands to be followed and the spell states you issue only one command. It's like wishing for more wishes.
Nothing in the spell description suggests that it need be specific. It certainly CAN be if you're not interested in overly limiting the freedom of the target, but all the spell actually says is that "You can issue any command you choose, short of an activity that would result in certain death." "Any command you choose" is expressly broad.
I think "Obey me" is too vague for the purpose of Geas. "Obey me" allows any number of commands to be followed and the spell states you issue only one command. It's like wishing for more wishes.
I do agree its like wishing for more wishes, but I think thats sort of a fun thing to do, like that one fable about Aristotle or socrates and the bridge. People get around limitations with some interesting uses of language and such. Just my thoughts in that aspect at least. Like Saga said, the wording there is pretty broad for what the command can be.
I think "Obey me" is a fantastic command for an NPC to give a player, because it opens up a roleplaying opportunity for the player trying to find that narrow gray area where they can obey orders while thwarting intent. As mentioned above, the Charmed condition handed out by Geas does not make you the character view the caster as a friend , it just prevents them from taking hostile actions against them and makes them more easily influenced by their charisma checks. Un-enthusiastically pursuing targets you've been ordered to kill, providing unhelpful or evasive answers to questions, spitting in food you're ordered to prepare, etc.... And, "Obey me" is risky for the caster, because it necessitates them staying in contact with the character, which might provide opportunities to have the rest of the party kill the caster to release their ally from the compulsion.
I like it, it keeps the caster around as a nemesis that the player/party is heavily engaged with, instead of something like "go to Blackacre to retrieve the magical mcguffin, and return it to me before the new moon" which basically launches the player/party like a missile at an external adventure but then takes the caster off the table until they come back.
Geas does specify that the command is "carry out some service or refrain from some action or course of activity as you decide"; arguably "obey me" does not qualify.
Obedience is a service. And, again, “any command you choose” is very clear. There is exactly one limit on what the command can be: the prohibition of suicidal commands.
Further, in contrast to what has been said, nothing about the spell requires that the command be set upon casting. The casting just makes the target charmed. While charmed, the target must obey ANY command given or suffer damage (once per day): “While the creature is charmed by you, it takes 5d10 psychic damage each time it acts in a manner directly counter to your instructions.”
Clearly, it’s not true that the caster only gets a single command. The caster gets as many commands as they want while the target remains charmed. The punishment can only happen once per day, but the commands themselves are arbitrary and dynamic.
Well, the wording of the spell is a little inconsistent/unclear about whether it's a single command or any number of commands during the duration, but honestly I don't agree Saga that you can do new commands each day. "Obey me" is the single command which lets you issue further directives, if you say something else then I don't think you get to keep them under a Geas and come up with new commands on later days.
Contrast:
"You place a magical command on a creature..." (single command)
"...carry out some service or refrain from some action or course of activity as you decide." (single command)
"While the creature is charmed by you... each time it acts in a manner directly counter to your instructions" (unclear whether this is multiple instructions, or just your instructions re: one command)
"You can issue any command you choose..." (single command?)
I don't see any language which clearly talks about plural commands, just plural instructions (which could be read as relating to a single command). And, the part about "if the creature can understand you, it must succeed ona Wisdom saving throw" makes it pretty clear that you speak the command before the save, and that's the command that sticks.
I'm definitely on team "Obey me," but if you cast a Geas for "Bring me a sandwich!", you aren't able to then receive the sandwich and follow up with a command for a glass of milk.
Obedience is a service. And, again, “any command you choose” is very clear. There is exactly one limit on what the command can be: the prohibition of suicidal commands.
Further, in contrast to what has been said, nothing about the spell requires that the command be set upon casting. The casting just makes the target charmed. While charmed, the target must obey ANY command given or suffer damage (once per day): “While the creature is charmed by you, it takes 5d10 psychic damage each time it acts in a manner directly counter to your instructions.”
Clearly, it’s not true that the caster only gets a single command. The caster gets as many commands as they want while the target remains charmed. The punishment can only happen once per day, but the commands themselves are arbitrary and dynamic.
The spell states:
"You place a magical command on a creature that you can see within range, forcing it to carry out some service or refrain from some action or course of activity as you decide."
It doesn't say "commands". It doesn't say you can change the command. You place the magical command on a creature that you can see within range. This would tend to imply that the magical command is applied when the spell is cast since the casting time is 1 minute and the range is irrelevant after the spell is cast.
"You can issue any command you choose, short of an activity that would result in certain death. Should you issue a suicidal command, the spell ends."
Again the spell specifically uses singular. You can issue any command .. but if it would result in certain death it is not a valid command.
Anyway, I would say that "Clearly, it’s not true that the caster only gets a single command." ... is clearly arguable :) ... unless they use a command that gets them more options.
As for telling the target of the spell to "Obey me" ... that is probably ok since obeying could likely be considered a type of service. If it was worded "Serve me as I command" then it would seem to be fine. However, as mentioned there are lots of role playing opportunities to try to obey the letter while avoiding the spirit of any commands.
This is the reason I wanted to have this convo. No other spell have I had so much trouble really trying to figure out. As far as I can discern from this, "Obey me" is a reasonable enough command. While other commands might be more specific, its not like the PC will be compelled to obey "all" commands, and could potentially try to resist the command if they really wanted to and take the 5d10.
Yes, but if they rebel, just remember that after that 5d10 they still CANT attack the caster, no matter what, EVEN if the caster continues to attack them for their insolence, until someone forcibly clears that charmed condition or the caster chooses to end the spell. A caster could walk up and kill you 1 damage at a time and all you could do is flee, or cast non-harmful spells, I don’t think you can even make a grapple or shove attempt since those are types of attacks.
Actually sounds like a pretty good set up for a horror adventure, group Geas (“don't...scream...”) cast by some sort of plodding horror that the group has to run from for 30 days while it hunts them down to chop them to bits!!!
I think Geas intent is that there is an end state at the time of the casting. As someone mentioned, "bring me a sandwich" would end the Geas once the sandwich was delivered versus them being able to add "bring me milk" after it was delivered.
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Hey all!
Running out of the abyss and one of the pcs has been hit with a geas spell from the drow priestess. Does he have to obey her commands all the time or do the commands need to be specifically addressed to him?
Also I know its not like a command spell, but out of fear of the 5d10 psychic damage hes probably going to not resist, but what effect does the charmed condition play here? I always saw Geas as a magical shock collar, either do as your told or get punished, is this a good way of interping it? Any advice is greatly appreciated!
In my reading of the rules, Geas is not a "shock collar" and the spell does not require obedience.
"You place a magical command on a creature that you can see within range, forcing it to carry out some service or refrain from some action or course of activity as you decide. If the creature can understand you, it must succeed on a Wisdom saving throw or become charmed by you for the duration. While the creature is charmed by you, it takes 5d10 psychic damage each time it acts in a manner directly counter to your instructions, but no more than once each day. A creature that can't understand you is unaffected by the spell. You can issue any command you choose, short of an activity that would result in certain death. Should you issue a suicidal command, the spell ends. You can end the spell early by using an action to dismiss it. A remove curse, greater restoration, or wish spell also ends it."
You give the creature their instructions when the spell is cast. It is a magical command and the creature must try to complete the command by either attempting the specified task or refraining from whatever the creature was told not to do. Since the creature is charned it views the caster in a positive light. It only takes 5d10 damage if it acts directly counter to your command and this is limited to 1/day.
For an example, if a drow priestess cast geas on a character and told them "the drow are my friends you will not attack them" then the character would prefer not to attack the other drow. However the spell doesn't prevent them from doing so, they will just take 5d10 damage once per day for days when they do not follow the requirements of the geas. So if the character saw drow attacking other party members, he/she would likely ask the drow to stop and when they did not, he/she could attack them though the geas would then inflict 5d10 damage.
As for the charmed condition in this case, the character can't attack the priestess or target the priestess with harmful magical effects or abilities. The priestess would have advantage on any social rolls against the character, though DCs set for her would have to take into consideration that the PC likely still considers her an enemy.
Ah alright, might be in the wrong here then, but the command at the point of casting was that he follow her commands. Should I maybe try to retcon it to something else then?
“Obey me” is fine (the spell description explicitly says the command can be anything), with the caveats that the damage can only happen once per day and that if any suicidal command is issued, the spell immediately ends.
Geas is pretty close to the power of the king from Code Geass.
I don't think you can change the magical command after it is set (before the save). The consequences for disobeying are once per day, but there is no mention of being able to change the command.
"Obey me" is a legitimate command though. But if the target immediately covers their ears so they can't hear any more commands, they haven't disobeyed.
I think that's opened to interpretation. The act of covering their own ears to avoid hearing the commands is to directly oppose the command to obey the caster. An alternative is for someone else to cause the Deaf condition on the affected character.
EDIT: Message can still evade such tactics. If the spell is available, it could be a really good way to create a sleeper by using Message.
Human. Male. Possibly. Don't be a divider.
My characters' backgrounds are written like instruction manuals rather than stories. My opinion and preferences don't mean you're wrong.
I am 99.7603% convinced that the digital dice are messing with me. I roll high when nobody's looking and low when anyone else can see.🎲
“It's a bit early to be thinking about an epitaph. No?” will be my epitaph.
It isn't directly counter to "obey me". The opposite of "Obey me" is -well- not following an order you received. The opposite of covering your ears would be "listen to me" "pay attention to me" etc. Having not received the command to listen, not listening is not disobeying.
And yes there are ways around it and and ways around those ways around.
I think "Obey me" is too vague for the purpose of Geas. "Obey me" allows any number of commands to be followed and the spell states you issue only one command. It's like wishing for more wishes.
Nothing in the spell description suggests that it need be specific. It certainly CAN be if you're not interested in overly limiting the freedom of the target, but all the spell actually says is that "You can issue any command you choose, short of an activity that would result in certain death." "Any command you choose" is expressly broad.
I do agree its like wishing for more wishes, but I think thats sort of a fun thing to do, like that one fable about Aristotle or socrates and the bridge. People get around limitations with some interesting uses of language and such. Just my thoughts in that aspect at least. Like Saga said, the wording there is pretty broad for what the command can be.
I think "Obey me" is a fantastic command for an NPC to give a player, because it opens up a roleplaying opportunity for the player trying to find that narrow gray area where they can obey orders while thwarting intent. As mentioned above, the Charmed condition handed out by Geas does not make you the character view the caster as a friend , it just prevents them from taking hostile actions against them and makes them more easily influenced by their charisma checks. Un-enthusiastically pursuing targets you've been ordered to kill, providing unhelpful or evasive answers to questions, spitting in food you're ordered to prepare, etc.... And, "Obey me" is risky for the caster, because it necessitates them staying in contact with the character, which might provide opportunities to have the rest of the party kill the caster to release their ally from the compulsion.
I like it, it keeps the caster around as a nemesis that the player/party is heavily engaged with, instead of something like "go to Blackacre to retrieve the magical mcguffin, and return it to me before the new moon" which basically launches the player/party like a missile at an external adventure but then takes the caster off the table until they come back.
dndbeyond.com forum tags
I'm going to make this way harder than it needs to be.
Geas does specify that the command is "carry out some service or refrain from some action or course of activity as you decide"; arguably "obey me" does not qualify.
Obedience is a service. And, again, “any command you choose” is very clear. There is exactly one limit on what the command can be: the prohibition of suicidal commands.
Further, in contrast to what has been said, nothing about the spell requires that the command be set upon casting. The casting just makes the target charmed. While charmed, the target must obey ANY command given or suffer damage (once per day): “While the creature is charmed by you, it takes 5d10 psychic damage each time it acts in a manner directly counter to your instructions.”
Clearly, it’s not true that the caster only gets a single command. The caster gets as many commands as they want while the target remains charmed. The punishment can only happen once per day, but the commands themselves are arbitrary and dynamic.
Well, the wording of the spell is a little inconsistent/unclear about whether it's a single command or any number of commands during the duration, but honestly I don't agree Saga that you can do new commands each day. "Obey me" is the single command which lets you issue further directives, if you say something else then I don't think you get to keep them under a Geas and come up with new commands on later days.
Contrast:
I don't see any language which clearly talks about plural commands, just plural instructions (which could be read as relating to a single command). And, the part about "if the creature can understand you, it must succeed ona Wisdom saving throw" makes it pretty clear that you speak the command before the save, and that's the command that sticks.
I'm definitely on team "Obey me," but if you cast a Geas for "Bring me a sandwich!", you aren't able to then receive the sandwich and follow up with a command for a glass of milk.
dndbeyond.com forum tags
I'm going to make this way harder than it needs to be.
The spell states:
"You place a magical command on a creature that you can see within range, forcing it to carry out some service or refrain from some action or course of activity as you decide."
It doesn't say "commands". It doesn't say you can change the command. You place the magical command on a creature that you can see within range. This would tend to imply that the magical command is applied when the spell is cast since the casting time is 1 minute and the range is irrelevant after the spell is cast.
"You can issue any command you choose, short of an activity that would result in certain death. Should you issue a suicidal command, the spell ends."
Again the spell specifically uses singular. You can issue any command .. but if it would result in certain death it is not a valid command.
Anyway, I would say that "Clearly, it’s not true that the caster only gets a single command." ... is clearly arguable :) ... unless they use a command that gets them more options.
As for telling the target of the spell to "Obey me" ... that is probably ok since obeying could likely be considered a type of service. If it was worded "Serve me as I command" then it would seem to be fine. However, as mentioned there are lots of role playing opportunities to try to obey the letter while avoiding the spirit of any commands.
This is the reason I wanted to have this convo. No other spell have I had so much trouble really trying to figure out. As far as I can discern from this, "Obey me" is a reasonable enough command. While other commands might be more specific, its not like the PC will be compelled to obey "all" commands, and could potentially try to resist the command if they really wanted to and take the 5d10.
Yes, but if they rebel, just remember that after that 5d10 they still CANT attack the caster, no matter what, EVEN if the caster continues to attack them for their insolence, until someone forcibly clears that charmed condition or the caster chooses to end the spell. A caster could walk up and kill you 1 damage at a time and all you could do is flee, or cast non-harmful spells, I don’t think you can even make a grapple or shove attempt since those are types of attacks.
Actually sounds like a pretty good set up for a horror adventure, group Geas (“don't...scream...”) cast by some sort of plodding horror that the group has to run from for 30 days while it hunts them down to chop them to bits!!!
dndbeyond.com forum tags
I'm going to make this way harder than it needs to be.
I think Geas intent is that there is an end state at the time of the casting. As someone mentioned, "bring me a sandwich" would end the Geas once the sandwich was delivered versus them being able to add "bring me milk" after it was delivered.