Last night we had a new (for us) situation arise in the combat: The Druid, in her Human form, cast Healing Spirit. She then used Wild Shape to change into something with a bunch of HP (her normal tactic). She received damage while in this new form and our resident rules guru clarified that she did NOT have to make Concentration checks until her own actual HP were touched.
What is the ruling RAW? I ask because this seems somewhat broken to me and considering we're dealing with Healing Spirit (which is causing me headaches all on its own) I need to make sure we do this right.
I don't want fights to degenerate into 'My Druid casts Healing Spirit' followed by 'The enemy caster Dispels it because he's fought Druids before and he knows what comes next.'
RAW is if the caster takes damage, they make a Constitution saving throw. The Druid is the Druid, regardless of what form they are in.
Taking damage. Whenever you take damage while you are concentrating on a spell, you must make a Constitution saving throw to maintain your concentration. The DC equals 10 or half the damage you take, whichever number is higher. If you take damage from multiple sources, such as an arrow and a dragon's breath, you make a separate saving throw for each source of damage.
Taking damage. Whenever you take damage while you are concentrating on a spell, you must make a Constitution saving throw to maintain your concentration. The DC equals 10 or half the damage you take, whichever number is higher. If you take damage from multiple sources, such as an arrow and a dragon's breath, you make a separate saving throw for each source of damage.
The only mention of spell concentration in the Wild Shape feature is that using it does not break your concentration.
**Edit** not to mention if you're the DM you can tell him to take a flying leap. It's your call how to adjudicate the rules.
I can see where the argument might be coming from.
When you transform, you assume the beast’s hit points and Hit Dice. When you revert to your normal form, you return to the number of hit points you had before you transformed. However, if you revert as a result of dropping to 0 hit points, any excess damage carries over to your normal form. For example, if you take 10 damage in animal form and have only 1 hit point left, you revert and take 9 damage.
At first, superficial glance, it might sound like Wild Shape has separate HP until you look closer and see that's not accurate.
Using RAW based on the way HP works in Wild Shape (transferring extra damage back to the true-form) and how Temporary HP works otherwise, the best way to look at it is that Wild Shape creates Temporary HP.
Damage to Temporary HP is not exempt from CON Saving Throws.
If that's not enough, RAW also states the specific overrides general, but there's nothing to specify Wild Shape's HP is exempt from CON Saving Throws. So, the general rule applies and CON Saving Throws are still valid in Wild Shape.
To summarise, Wild Shape is not exempt from CON Saving Throws according to RAW.
Human. Male. Possibly. Don't be a divider. My characters' backgrounds are written like instruction manuals rather than stories. My opinion and preferences don't mean you're wrong. I am 99.7603% convinced that the digital dice are messing with me. I roll high when nobody's looking and low when anyone else can see.🎲 “It's a bit early to be thinking about an epitaph. No?” will be my epitaph.
I know this question has been answered, but i got a follow up that fits the title as well.
What happens when the wildshaped druid takes enough dmg to lose its form and revert back?
a) wildshape makes a con save for the total dmg and is done
b) wildshape makes a con save for the dmg equal to its hp, then the druid has to make another con save for the remaining dmg, that is dealt to his normal form
c) wildshape makes a con save for the total dmg, then the druid has to make another con save for the remaining dmg, that is dealt to his normal form
I know this question has been answered, but i got a follow up that fits the title as well.
What happens when the wildshaped druid takes enough dmg to lose its form and revert back?
a) wildshape makes a con save for the total dmg and is done
b) wildshape makes a con save for the dmg equal to its hp, then the druid has to make another con save for the remaining dmg, that is dealt to his normal form
c) wildshape makes a con save for the total dmg, then the druid has to make another con save for the remaining dmg, that is dealt to his normal form
what do you think?
best regards
It's the same instance of damage, so a) would be my call.
I know this question has been answered, but i got a follow up that fits the title as well.
What happens when the wildshaped druid takes enough dmg to lose its form and revert back?
a) wildshape makes a con save for the total dmg and is done
b) wildshape makes a con save for the dmg equal to its hp, then the druid has to make another con save for the remaining dmg, that is dealt to his normal form
c) wildshape makes a con save for the total dmg, then the druid has to make another con save for the remaining dmg, that is dealt to his normal form
what do you think?
best regards
It's the same instance of damage, so a) would be my call.
I think the difference would be which CON mod do you use for the save. I'd vote whichever CON mod is active after all damage is applied, so in this instance the Druid would make the save, but based on total damage received, not just the transfer (Chicken Champs Option "D"). My logic is that the rules say you only make multiple saves if the damage comes from multiple sources, and until you have taken the damage, you don't have to make the save. So it is only after the damage is taken, and the druid reverted, does the single save occur.
I know this question has been answered, but i got a follow up that fits the title as well.
What happens when the wildshaped druid takes enough dmg to lose its form and revert back?
a) wildshape makes a con save for the total dmg and is done
b) wildshape makes a con save for the dmg equal to its hp, then the druid has to make another con save for the remaining dmg, that is dealt to his normal form
c) wildshape makes a con save for the total dmg, then the druid has to make another con save for the remaining dmg, that is dealt to his normal form
what do you think?
best regards
It's the same instance of damage, so a) would be my call.
I think the difference would be which CON mod do you use for the save. I'd vote whichever CON mod is active after all damage is applied, so in this instance the Druid would make the save, but based on total damage received, not just the transfer (Chicken Champs Option "D"). My logic is that the rules say you only make multiple saves if the damage comes from multiple sources, and until you have taken the damage, you don't have to make the save. So it is only after the damage is taken, and the druid reverted, does the single save occur.
Yep, that makes sense, and I'd rule the same way. I'll confess, it wasn't entirely clear to me what "wildshape makes a CON save" meant.
Last night we had a new (for us) situation arise in the combat: The Druid, in her Human form, cast Healing Spirit. She then used Wild Shape to change into something with a bunch of HP (her normal tactic). She received damage while in this new form and our resident rules guru clarified that she did NOT have to make Concentration checks until her own actual HP were touched.
What is the ruling RAW? I ask because this seems somewhat broken to me and considering we're dealing with Healing Spirit (which is causing me headaches all on its own) I need to make sure we do this right.
I don't want fights to degenerate into 'My Druid casts Healing Spirit' followed by 'The enemy caster Dispels it because he's fought Druids before and he knows what comes next.'
RAW is if the caster takes damage, they make a Constitution saving throw. The Druid is the Druid, regardless of what form they are in.
Yeah...he's wrong. Per chapter 10 in the PHB:
Taking damage. Whenever you take damage while you are concentrating on a spell, you must make a Constitution saving throw to maintain your concentration. The DC equals 10 or half the damage you take, whichever number is higher. If you take damage from multiple sources, such as an arrow and a dragon's breath, you make a separate saving throw for each source of damage.
The only mention of spell concentration in the Wild Shape feature is that using it does not break your concentration.
**Edit** not to mention if you're the DM you can tell him to take a flying leap. It's your call how to adjudicate the rules.
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All I can say is the other two are correct. The Druid absolutely must make a concentration check if they take damage even in Wild Shape.
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I can see where the argument might be coming from.
At first, superficial glance, it might sound like Wild Shape has separate HP until you look closer and see that's not accurate.
Using RAW based on the way HP works in Wild Shape (transferring extra damage back to the true-form) and how Temporary HP works otherwise, the best way to look at it is that Wild Shape creates Temporary HP.
Damage to Temporary HP is not exempt from CON Saving Throws.
If that's not enough, RAW also states the specific overrides general, but there's nothing to specify Wild Shape's HP is exempt from CON Saving Throws. So, the general rule applies and CON Saving Throws are still valid in Wild Shape.
To summarise, Wild Shape is not exempt from CON Saving Throws according to RAW.
Human. Male. Possibly. Don't be a divider.
My characters' backgrounds are written like instruction manuals rather than stories. My opinion and preferences don't mean you're wrong.
I am 99.7603% convinced that the digital dice are messing with me. I roll high when nobody's looking and low when anyone else can see.🎲
“It's a bit early to be thinking about an epitaph. No?” will be my epitaph.
Wild Shape doesn’t create THP, don’t go down that route of butchering one rule for the sake of another.
As others have said, taking damage as a Bear is still taking damage, and taking damage prompts concentration saves.
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I'm going to make this way harder than it needs to be.
And it's a significant balance issue to make wild shape druids not need to make concentration checks.
I think the correct answer that wild shape still makes concentration checks has been said enough, so I won't say it again.
Shi-
Thanks everyone.
Hey Guys!
I know this question has been answered, but i got a follow up that fits the title as well.
What happens when the wildshaped druid takes enough dmg to lose its form and revert back?
a) wildshape makes a con save for the total dmg and is done
b) wildshape makes a con save for the dmg equal to its hp, then the druid has to make another con save for the remaining dmg, that is dealt to his normal form
c) wildshape makes a con save for the total dmg, then the druid has to make another con save for the remaining dmg, that is dealt to his normal form
what do you think?
best regards
I’d say a), but I could be persuaded instead that it’s d) Druid has to make save based on total damage.
dndbeyond.com forum tags
I'm going to make this way harder than it needs to be.
I think as written it's actually (b), but I could be persuaded by (a) or (d).
It's the same instance of damage, so a) would be my call.
I think the difference would be which CON mod do you use for the save. I'd vote whichever CON mod is active after all damage is applied, so in this instance the Druid would make the save, but based on total damage received, not just the transfer (Chicken Champs Option "D"). My logic is that the rules say you only make multiple saves if the damage comes from multiple sources, and until you have taken the damage, you don't have to make the save. So it is only after the damage is taken, and the druid reverted, does the single save occur.
Yep, that makes sense, and I'd rule the same way. I'll confess, it wasn't entirely clear to me what "wildshape makes a CON save" meant.
Thanks for your help!