Also, you can attack with a polearm at maximum effect at 5'. So if they do manage to go unseen at 10', but get seen at 5', that's when they provoke.
Polearms had a limitation in previous editions of not being able to do so. 5e, reach weapons don't have that penalty.
You only provoke an AoO when you leave someone's reach (or enter it, with polearm master), not when you move within it. In previous editions, any movement within reach would provoke an attack of opportunity, but 5e is more permissive of movement.
The assumption is that they are visible moving from 10' to 5'. That will provoke.
Assuming it's part of the same movement.
Namely, applying to this very situation with the corner. Moving around a corner doesn't prevent the use of Polearm Master.
No. Again, you only provoke the AoO when you enter the reach of the character with Polearm Master. Their reach is 10ft, so moving from 10ft away to 5ft away is not entering their reach. You’re already inside their reach.
Using the environment to make sure you’re too close to provoke an AoO by the time you leave cover is just fighting smart. It’s no different from peeking out from behind total cover to make a ranged attack or cast a spell before darting back behind full cover to avoid reprisal.
If someone teleports from say 25 feet away to next to a PAM, the PAM would get the opportunity attack at the 5 foot range because that's the point were the bad guy actually entered the range. The enemy has effectively used terrain to teleport through the 10 foot reach range to the 5 foot reach range through being in full cover rather than magical teleport, but mechanically it's the same thing. As soon as that enemy is in striking range which in this case is out from behind full cover, then the "on entering range" would kick in.
If someone teleports from say 25 feet away to next to a PAM, the PAM would get the opportunity attack at the 5 foot range because that's the point were the bad guy actually entered the range. The enemy has effectively used terrain to teleport through the 10 foot reach range to the 5 foot reach range through being in full cover rather than magical teleport, but mechanically it's the same thing. As soon as that enemy is in striking range which in this case is out from behind full cover, then the "on entering range" would kick in.
The condition is not "on entering range." It's "on entering reach." That only happens when crossing the line 10ft away from the character with polearm master. Reach weapons cannot make attacks of opportunity against targets 5ft away. Yes, 5ft is "within range," but 5ft is not the reach of the weapon. You don't get a Polearm Master AoO when a creature moves from 10ft away to 5ft away for the exact same reason that you don't get a normal AoO with a reach weapon when a creature moves from 5ft away to 10ft away. This latter point is stated clearly in the Sage Advice Compendium, though it doesn't need it, because the rule is straightforward in the PHB.
Polearm Master aside, teleportation never provokes an attack of opportunity because only movement provokes an AoO. The language of Polearm Master doesn't actually include language to this effect. It's clearly an oversight, the intent is that the AoO work the same as normal AoOs, but RAW, it seems possible that teleportation can provoke an AoO if the teleporter lands 10ft away (but not 5ft away for the above reason).
While you are wielding a glaive, halberd, pike, quarterstaff, or spear, other creatures provoke an opportunity attack from you when they enter the reach you have with that weapon.
If they are behind a wall, they are not in your reach, once they poke out from behind that wall, they entered your reach. When they are 25 feet away, they are not in reach. When they teleport to 5 feet, they entered your reach. You are over thinking it.
As far as teleportation goes with not being movement, movement is not required based on the wording, only entering the reach. 5e is very picky on words, and if they meant movement was required, they would have said "when they move into your reach" not when they enter....
If they are behind a wall, they are not in your reach, once they poke out from behind that wall, they entered your reach. When they are 25 feet away, they are not in reach. When they teleport to 5 feet, they entered your reach. You are over thinking it.
As far as teleportation goes with not being movement, movement is not required based on the wording, only entering the reach. 5e is very picky on words, and if they meant movement was required, they would have said "when they move into your reach" not when they enter....
Someone behind a wall is in your reach, just behind total cover. 'Enter' means 'movement'. PAM is not 'any time anyone becomes attackable you can attack them', it's "someone moves over a line that is the edge of your reach".
While you are wielding a glaive, halberd, pike, quarterstaff, or spear, other creatures provoke an opportunity attack from you when they enter the reach you have with that weapon.
If they are behind a wall, they are not in your reach, once they poke out from behind that wall, they entered your reach.
That is incorrect. The reach of a reach weapon is always 10 feet and never 5 feet. If they poke out from behind the wall 5 feet away from you, they entered your reach 5 feet ago, not now.
When they are 25 feet away, they are not in reach. When they teleport to 5 feet, they entered your reach. You are over thinking it.
Again, your understanding of "reach" is incorrect. Your reach with a reach weapon is 10 feet, not 5 feet. This is stated in the book in as black-and-white terms as possible. I can only attribute your misunderstanding at this point to a deliberate refusal to understand.
As far as teleportation goes with not being movement, movement is not required based on the wording, only entering the reach. 5e is very picky on words, and if they meant movement was required, they would have said "when they move into your reach" not when they enter....
And here, I'm not sure you actually even read my post.
While specific trumps general, think about how FUN it is to do this to a player.
"He was around a corner so you don't get to use your FEAT." <-You will get evil eyed. Remember what a feat is.
Also, I do reject your idea that reach extends to squares you can't hit, simply because it is within 10 feet. If a burrowed creature pops up within 5 feet, or the teleport example, the polearm DOES get to provoke. This is throw-over from previous editions where threatened squares were more strictly defined, but the two go hand in hand.
While specific trumps general, think about how FUN it is to do this to a player.
"He was around a corner so you don't get to use your FEAT." <-You will get evil eyed. Remember what a feat is.
This is such an absurd line of thought. Not everything has to work 100% of the time. Is a player going to whine if every now and then all the enemies use ranged weapons and never get within 10ft, let alone 5? How often is this literal corner case (hehehe) actually going to happen? It is so easy to just, you know, stay back from the corner and wait for the enemy to enter your reach where you can hit them. Just because the enemy is fighting smart doesn't mean you have to fight stupid.
Also, I do reject your idea that reach extends to squares you can't hit, simply because it is within 10 feet. If a burrowed creature pops up within 5 feet, or the teleport example, the polearm DOES get to provoke.
I don't actually have a firm opinion on whether or not reach extends to squares you can't hit, but what is unambiguously true is that your reach with a reach weapon is not 5ft. Environmental geometry cannot make your reach 5ft. The only thing that can make your reach 5ft is using a weapon that does not have the reach property. If that burrowed creature pops up at 5ft, no, you do not get to make an AoO with your reach weapon. That is the rule, and it is not ambiguous. If you want to make Polearm Master AoOs at 5ft, use a spear. Or houserule it! Houseruling things is fine and good. This particular houserule doesn't make physical sense, but you know, magic.
To go into detail why I'd argue you don't have reach on space you can't attack.
Your biggest error is in expecting that REACH is a cube around a character. It isn't. As a weapon property, it extends reach by 5'. Other than that, reach is not at all defined. This means that you have to use your noggin to come to a common sense interpretation of what reach is.
So, what can you reach? With a whip, can you strike something that is 10' beneath the ground? No. You cannot reach that.
Can you reach through the wall? No, you cannot (unless you can break through it).
Can you reach the invisible person 10' away? Yes.
The polearm says when something comes within reach. That is to say, when something you can hit appears, you hit it with a reaction.
Saga, we don't know which weapon the OP was using. 3 of the 5 possibles have reach, the other 2 (quarterstaff and spear) do not have reach and 5 foot is their reach. PAM does not say the reach is 10 feet for this, it says within their reach which might only be 5 feet.
Do you agree the following is correct?
1. fighter with polearm master. 2. Enemy.
X2X XXX X1X X12 XXX XXX
In round 3 of combat, 2 moves from north of the fighter to east of it probably to help with flanking. PAM kicks in and gives the fighter AOO as long as the fighter has a reaction to spend even though 2 has been there for 2 previous turns because 2 used his round 3 movement to enter a space controlled by 1. Normally this would not provoke AOO because 2 did not leave a controlled space.
If that assessment is correct, then the rest of my arguments are with the possible exception of teleporting because it's not movement, but then PAM doesn't require movement, only entering...
The grey area, I admit, is when something invisible appears, because an invisible creature can actually be in reach, wait a round, then appear. In terms of RAW, that means no provoke. In narrative, it's the same as teleporting, which clearly does provoke.
When it comes to invisibility, the question is, does leaving invisibility count as "entering", as teleporting does?
Saga, we don't know which weapon the OP was using. 3 of the 5 possibles have reach, the other 2 (quarterstaff and spear) do not have reach and 5 foot is their reach. PAM does not say the reach is 10 feet for this, it says within their reach which might only be 5 feet.
Do you agree the following is correct?
1. fighter with polearm master. 2. Enemy.
X2X XXX X1X X12 XXX XXX
In round 3 of combat, 2 moves from north of the fighter to east of it probably to help with flanking. PAM kicks in and gives the fighter AOO as long as the fighter has a reaction to spend even though 2 has been there for 2 previous turns because 2 used his round 3 movement to enter a space controlled by 1. Normally this would not provoke AOO because 2 did not leave a controlled space.
If that assessment is correct, then the rest of my arguments are with the possible exception of teleporting because it's not movement, but then PAM doesn't require movement, only entering...
No, that’s not correct at all. The AoO granted by Polearm Master is triggered by an opponent entering your reach, not by an opponent moving into a square within your reach. 2’s initial position was already within the reach of 1, so they didn’t enter 1’s reach when they moved from north to east. If I’m already inside my house, moving from the kitchen to the dining room is not “entering my house.”
If you don't count entering the east space from the north space as entering, then I can see your point and won't contest it further. I see it as entering a controlled space and this is what is causing the differences in our ideas on how this works.
Perhaps you missed the part where reach is not a cube like a house. Even if you had 100' reach, you cannot reach all the spaces in the house from any one place unless the house has no walls.
The only reason REACH is ever bolded is because it's a statistic. You can't reach through solid objects.
If you can't respond to that, your own interpretation is equally deem-able as a house-rule.
The polearm says when something comes within reach. That is to say, when something you can hit appears, you hit it with a reaction.
No, it says when something enters your reach. This means it crosses a 10' (or 5', for non-reach weapons) radius away from you. It is in fact intended that teleportation, tunneling, etc, bypass reach, and they did that in 3e and 4e as well. For that matter, so did the corner trick.
If they are behind a wall, they are not in your reach, once they poke out from behind that wall, they entered your reach. When they are 25 feet away, they are not in reach. When they teleport to 5 feet, they entered your reach. You are over thinking it.
As far as teleportation goes with not being movement, movement is not required based on the wording, only entering the reach. 5e is very picky on words, and if they meant movement was required, they would have said "when they move into your reach" not when they enter....
Someone behind a wall is in your reach, just behind total cover. 'Enter' means 'movement'. PAM is not 'any time anyone becomes attackable you can attack them', it's "someone moves over a line that is the edge of your reach".
Just to clarify something but by RAW the first square behind a corner is visible and can be attacked from 10' away by a creature with a 10' reach. The corner does not hide provide total cover to a creature just around the corner. The creature in that square does get partial cover but it is visible and an attack CAN be made if you are playing by the line of sight rules for play on a grid in the DMG. As a result, polearm master would still trigger when a creature enters the square 10' away but the creature would receive partial cover.
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You only provoke an AoO when you leave someone's reach (or enter it, with polearm master), not when you move within it. In previous editions, any movement within reach would provoke an attack of opportunity, but 5e is more permissive of movement.
The assumption is that they are visible moving from 10' to 5'. That will provoke.
Assuming it's part of the same movement.
Namely, applying to this very situation with the corner. Moving around a corner doesn't prevent the use of Polearm Master.
No. Again, you only provoke the AoO when you enter the reach of the character with Polearm Master. Their reach is 10ft, so moving from 10ft away to 5ft away is not entering their reach. You’re already inside their reach.
Using the environment to make sure you’re too close to provoke an AoO by the time you leave cover is just fighting smart. It’s no different from peeking out from behind total cover to make a ranged attack or cast a spell before darting back behind full cover to avoid reprisal.
If someone teleports from say 25 feet away to next to a PAM, the PAM would get the opportunity attack at the 5 foot range because that's the point were the bad guy actually entered the range. The enemy has effectively used terrain to teleport through the 10 foot reach range to the 5 foot reach range through being in full cover rather than magical teleport, but mechanically it's the same thing. As soon as that enemy is in striking range which in this case is out from behind full cover, then the "on entering range" would kick in.
The condition is not "on entering range." It's "on entering reach." That only happens when crossing the line 10ft away from the character with polearm master. Reach weapons cannot make attacks of opportunity against targets 5ft away. Yes, 5ft is "within range," but 5ft is not the reach of the weapon. You don't get a Polearm Master AoO when a creature moves from 10ft away to 5ft away for the exact same reason that you don't get a normal AoO with a reach weapon when a creature moves from 5ft away to 10ft away. This latter point is stated clearly in the Sage Advice Compendium, though it doesn't need it, because the rule is straightforward in the PHB.
Polearm Master aside, teleportation never provokes an attack of opportunity because only movement provokes an AoO. The language of Polearm Master doesn't actually include language to this effect. It's clearly an oversight, the intent is that the AoO work the same as normal AoOs, but RAW, it seems possible that teleportation can provoke an AoO if the teleporter lands 10ft away (but not 5ft away for the above reason).
If they are behind a wall, they are not in your reach, once they poke out from behind that wall, they entered your reach. When they are 25 feet away, they are not in reach. When they teleport to 5 feet, they entered your reach. You are over thinking it.
As far as teleportation goes with not being movement, movement is not required based on the wording, only entering the reach. 5e is very picky on words, and if they meant movement was required, they would have said "when they move into your reach" not when they enter....
Someone behind a wall is in your reach, just behind total cover. 'Enter' means 'movement'. PAM is not 'any time anyone becomes attackable you can attack them', it's "someone moves over a line that is the edge of your reach".
That is incorrect. The reach of a reach weapon is always 10 feet and never 5 feet. If they poke out from behind the wall 5 feet away from you, they entered your reach 5 feet ago, not now.
Again, your understanding of "reach" is incorrect. Your reach with a reach weapon is 10 feet, not 5 feet. This is stated in the book in as black-and-white terms as possible. I can only attribute your misunderstanding at this point to a deliberate refusal to understand.
And here, I'm not sure you actually even read my post.
While specific trumps general, think about how FUN it is to do this to a player.
"He was around a corner so you don't get to use your FEAT." <-You will get evil eyed. Remember what a feat is.
Also, I do reject your idea that reach extends to squares you can't hit, simply because it is within 10 feet. If a burrowed creature pops up within 5 feet, or the teleport example, the polearm DOES get to provoke. This is throw-over from previous editions where threatened squares were more strictly defined, but the two go hand in hand.
This is such an absurd line of thought. Not everything has to work 100% of the time. Is a player going to whine if every now and then all the enemies use ranged weapons and never get within 10ft, let alone 5? How often is this literal corner case (hehehe) actually going to happen? It is so easy to just, you know, stay back from the corner and wait for the enemy to enter your reach where you can hit them. Just because the enemy is fighting smart doesn't mean you have to fight stupid.
I don't actually have a firm opinion on whether or not reach extends to squares you can't hit, but what is unambiguously true is that your reach with a reach weapon is not 5ft. Environmental geometry cannot make your reach 5ft. The only thing that can make your reach 5ft is using a weapon that does not have the reach property. If that burrowed creature pops up at 5ft, no, you do not get to make an AoO with your reach weapon. That is the rule, and it is not ambiguous. If you want to make Polearm Master AoOs at 5ft, use a spear. Or houserule it! Houseruling things is fine and good. This particular houserule doesn't make physical sense, but you know, magic.
To go into detail why I'd argue you don't have reach on space you can't attack.
The polearm says when something comes within reach. That is to say, when something you can hit appears, you hit it with a reaction.
Saga, we don't know which weapon the OP was using. 3 of the 5 possibles have reach, the other 2 (quarterstaff and spear) do not have reach and 5 foot is their reach. PAM does not say the reach is 10 feet for this, it says within their reach which might only be 5 feet.
Do you agree the following is correct?
1. fighter with polearm master.
2. Enemy.
X2X XXX
X1X X12
XXX XXX
In round 3 of combat, 2 moves from north of the fighter to east of it probably to help with flanking. PAM kicks in and gives the fighter AOO as long as the fighter has a reaction to spend even though 2 has been there for 2 previous turns because 2 used his round 3 movement to enter a space controlled by 1. Normally this would not provoke AOO because 2 did not leave a controlled space.
If that assessment is correct, then the rest of my arguments are with the possible exception of teleporting because it's not movement, but then PAM doesn't require movement, only entering...
The grey area, I admit, is when something invisible appears, because an invisible creature can actually be in reach, wait a round, then appear. In terms of RAW, that means no provoke. In narrative, it's the same as teleporting, which clearly does provoke.
When it comes to invisibility, the question is, does leaving invisibility count as "entering", as teleporting does?
No, that’s not correct at all. The AoO granted by Polearm Master is triggered by an opponent entering your reach, not by an opponent moving into a square within your reach. 2’s initial position was already within the reach of 1, so they didn’t enter 1’s reach when they moved from north to east. If I’m already inside my house, moving from the kitchen to the dining room is not “entering my house.”
If you don't count entering the east space from the north space as entering, then I can see your point and won't contest it further. I see it as entering a controlled space and this is what is causing the differences in our ideas on how this works.
Perhaps you missed the part where reach is not a cube like a house. Even if you had 100' reach, you cannot reach all the spaces in the house from any one place unless the house has no walls.
The only reason REACH is ever bolded is because it's a statistic. You can't reach through solid objects.
If you can't respond to that, your own interpretation is equally deem-able as a house-rule.
And another thing. You're trying to reason a penalty to a weapon property that is not intended to be a disadvantage in any situation.
No, it says when something enters your reach. This means it crosses a 10' (or 5', for non-reach weapons) radius away from you. It is in fact intended that teleportation, tunneling, etc, bypass reach, and they did that in 3e and 4e as well. For that matter, so did the corner trick.
It's possible to bypass 5' reach just like it's possible to bypass 10' reach, it just requires different geometry.
This is one of the reasons they did away with squares as being part of the rules.
Just to clarify something but by RAW the first square behind a corner is visible and can be attacked from 10' away by a creature with a 10' reach. The corner does not hide provide total cover to a creature just around the corner. The creature in that square does get partial cover but it is visible and an attack CAN be made if you are playing by the line of sight rules for play on a grid in the DMG. As a result, polearm master would still trigger when a creature enters the square 10' away but the creature would receive partial cover.