A band of adventurers sneaks up on a bandit camp, springing from the trees to attack them. A gelatinous cube glides down a dungeon passage, unnoticed by the adventurers until the cube engulfs one of them. In these situations, one side of the battle gains surprise over the other.
The DM determines who might be surprised. If neither side tries to be stealthy, they automatically notice each other. Otherwise, the DM compares the Dexterity (Stealth) checks of anyone hiding with the passive Wisdom (Perception) score of each creature on the opposing side. Any character or monster that doesn't notice a threat is surprised at the start of the encounter.
If you're surprised, you can't move or take an action on your first turn of the combat, and you can't take a reaction until that turn ends. A member of a group can be surprised even if the other members aren't.
The party tries to sneak up on a creature/group of creatures. The stealth rolls of some players beats the passive perception of the creature(s), and the stealth rolls don't beat the passive perception of other creatures. You can't be surprised by some creatures but not others - you are either surprised or not. If the Rogue or Ranger or Monk or whoever snuck successfully, but the Fighter or War Cleric in their Plate Mail or whoever did not, according to the written rules, would the target creature(s) be surprised or not? Is it that if you're surprised by at least one member of the party, you're surprised, period? From a logic perspective, that makes the most sense to me.
The "surprised" condition isn't an official condition. But it acts like one so we'll assume that for a second. As far as I understand, the "surprised" condition simply means you cannot move or take actions/bonus actions that round, and you can only take reactions after your turn passes. It does not mean you roll initiative with disadvantage. It does not mean attacks are made against you with advantage or are autocrits or deal extra damage (unless a feature for a specific character says otherwise, such as Gloom Stalkers or Assassins). It does not mean you don't have a turn that round. Just limitations on actions, bonus actions, movement, and kinda reactions.
1. If you do not use group stealth rules, then you need to take the lowest stealth roll and compare it to the passive perceptions of all enemy creatures. Any that have a passive perception equal to or higher than that lowest stealth check would not be surprised.
1. If you do not use group stealth rules, then you need to take the lowest stealth roll and compare it to the passive perceptions of all enemy creatures. Any that have a passive perception equal to or higher than that lowest stealth check would not be surprised.
2. Correct.
When you say "group stealth rules" do you mean "house rules about stealth" or do you mean "standard rules about a group that is stealthing"? Cause if the second exists I am not aware of it, but would quite like to know more.
When a number of individuals are trying to accomplish something as a group, the DM might ask for a group ability check. In such a situation, the characters who are skilled at a particular task help cover those who aren't.
To make a group ability check, everyone in the group makes the ability check. If at least half the group succeeds, the whole group succeeds. Otherwise, the group fails.
Group checks don't come up very often, and they're most useful when all the characters succeed or fail as a group. For example, when adventurers are navigating a swamp, the DM might call for a group Wisdom (Survival) check to see if the characters can avoid the quicksand, sinkholes, and other natural hazards of the environment. If at least half the group succeeds, the successful characters are able to guide their companions out of danger. Otherwise, the group stumbles into one of these hazards.
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Canto alla vita alla sua bellezza ad ogni sua ferita ogni sua carezza!
I sing to life and to its tragic beauty To pain and to strife, but all that dances through me The rise and the fall, I've lived through it all!
Oh, thank you very much!! I'll rule it like this then:
Everyone in the group rolls stealth. I find the middle person (the median for you statistics people out there). Creatures whose PP is equal to or above that middle person's stealth roll, they are not surprised. Those whose PP is below that median stealth score, they're surprised.
And vice versa for when creatures sneak up on my group.
Oh, thank you very much!! I'll rule it like this then:
Everyone in the group rolls stealth. I find the middle person (the median for you statistics people out there). Creatures whose PP is equal to or above that middle person's stealth roll, they are not surprised. Those whose PP is below that median stealth score, they're surprised.
And vice versa for when creatures sneak up on my group.
The important part is that it makes sense for your group and that they have fun doing it. You have a lot of latitude when it comes to stealth checks because of the option for group checks. You also have the ability to give either party advantage on their checks (just add +5) depending on what the party is doing to remain undetected or how vigilantly the other group is keeping watch (or vice versa). The narrative can affect which type of check that you give (perhaps the group is trying to sneak into prison together vs everyone is sneaking but no clear efforts at cooperation), the situation can affect it (out of combat could be group centered vs combat being individual), and perhaps the presence of a character with expertise makes you decide to go straight average versus median because of how much of an outlier they'd be or even take the better of the average and the median. Keeping to a standard will help your players, but don't hesitate to change it up to reflect the needs of the story (and not necessarily just what you planned).
Finally, a failure on a stealth check doesn't need to mean that the perceiving party knows who made the noise that they heard, just that they heard something. Perhaps they're expecting an ally. They won't be surprised but they may not be openly hostile from the start. If they're paranoid, it might mean they're taking up defensive positions instead of playing cards or whatever.
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Here's what the Basic Rules say about surprise:
https://www.dndbeyond.com/sources/basic-rules/combat#Surprise
Here's my questions:
Thank you for your time.
Love,
Pengy
1. If you do not use group stealth rules, then you need to take the lowest stealth roll and compare it to the passive perceptions of all enemy creatures. Any that have a passive perception equal to or higher than that lowest stealth check would not be surprised.
2. Correct.
When you say "group stealth rules" do you mean "house rules about stealth" or do you mean "standard rules about a group that is stealthing"? Cause if the second exists I am not aware of it, but would quite like to know more.
From the PHB:
Canto alla vita
alla sua bellezza
ad ogni sua ferita
ogni sua carezza!
I sing to life and to its tragic beauty
To pain and to strife, but all that dances through me
The rise and the fall, I've lived through it all!
Oh, thank you very much!! I'll rule it like this then:
Everyone in the group rolls stealth. I find the middle person (the median for you statistics people out there). Creatures whose PP is equal to or above that middle person's stealth roll, they are not surprised. Those whose PP is below that median stealth score, they're surprised.
And vice versa for when creatures sneak up on my group.
The important part is that it makes sense for your group and that they have fun doing it. You have a lot of latitude when it comes to stealth checks because of the option for group checks. You also have the ability to give either party advantage on their checks (just add +5) depending on what the party is doing to remain undetected or how vigilantly the other group is keeping watch (or vice versa). The narrative can affect which type of check that you give (perhaps the group is trying to sneak into prison together vs everyone is sneaking but no clear efforts at cooperation), the situation can affect it (out of combat could be group centered vs combat being individual), and perhaps the presence of a character with expertise makes you decide to go straight average versus median because of how much of an outlier they'd be or even take the better of the average and the median. Keeping to a standard will help your players, but don't hesitate to change it up to reflect the needs of the story (and not necessarily just what you planned).
Finally, a failure on a stealth check doesn't need to mean that the perceiving party knows who made the noise that they heard, just that they heard something. Perhaps they're expecting an ally. They won't be surprised but they may not be openly hostile from the start. If they're paranoid, it might mean they're taking up defensive positions instead of playing cards or whatever.