When squeezing into a small space, Certain weapons will be too large to use effectively, if usable at all. - Melee Weapons with the two-handed or reach property are unusable due being too big and awkward to swing. - All attacks with versatile weapons have disadvantage as their size makes them difficult but not impossible to use in tight spaces. - Thrown and Ranged attacks automatically miss if used past their first range increment as there is not enough vertical room to allow long range projectile travel. - Finally attacks with light weapons that deal piercing damage have advantage as they are well designed for fighting in small spaces against foes with little room to move.
I'm lazy, I would probably just say you could make a thrusting/stabbing attack with all weapons but, would see your damage dice reduced to the next type if your weapon wasn't piercing , 1d6 to 1d4, etc. No other penalties.
You should just deal with this on a case-by-case basis instead of trying to come up with blanket rules based on weapon properties. The game's not designed to handle this level of realism. Also, the game already has squeezing rules that give disadvantage on attacks:
While squeezing through a space, a creature must spend 1 extra foot for every foot it moves there, and it has disadvantage on attack rolls and Dexterity saving throws. Attack rolls against the creature have advantage while it's in the smaller space.
- Melee Weapons with the two-handed or reach property are unusable due being too big and awkward to swing.
- Attacks with versatile weapons have disadvantage as their size makes them difficult but not impossible to use in tight spaces.
Most of the weapons affected by these rules can still be used somewhat effectively in close quarters (some more than others, of course.) Polearms are still going to have effective thrusts. Axes, hammers, polearms, greatswords and longswords can all be held closer to the head or tip to trade range for reduced swing arc or better thrusts.
At this point you might be tempted to come up with a big table of secondary damages for these weapons, but instead of forcing your players to track a huge amount of house rules, why not just use the improvised weapon rules and either change the damage to a d4 or use the damage of a weaker weapon as needed? E.g. When half-swording a longsword, you can treat that as a shortsword that happens to require two hands. When holding a greataxe close to the head, you can treat it as a handaxe.
- Thrown or Ranged attacks are unaffected while used within their first range increment, but automatically miss if used past their first range increment as there is not enough vertical room to allow long range projectile travel.
This one is weird. You don't think there's enough room to swing many melee weapons effectively but there's enough room to do an overhead spear or javelin throw? That should definitely not be something you can do without disadvantage, even within the normal range.
- Finally attacks with light weapons that deal piercing damage have advantage as they are well designed for fighting in small spaces against foes with little room to move.
Yep, there are rules for this already. InquisitiveCoder posted the most relevant part, but here's the whole section:
Squeezing into a Smaller Space
A creature can squeeze through a space that is large enough for a creature one size smaller than it. Thus, a Large creature can squeeze through a passage that's only 5 feet wide. While squeezing through a space, a creature must spend 1 extra foot for every foot it moves there, and it has disadvantage on attack rolls and Dexterity saving throws. Attack rolls against the creature have advantage while it's in the smaller space.
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Canto alla vita alla sua bellezza ad ogni sua ferita ogni sua carezza!
I sing to life and to its tragic beauty To pain and to strife, but all that dances through me The rise and the fall, I've lived through it all!
im not neccessarily saying about squeezing into a smaller space as in size increment wise as as even a medium creature in a 5ftby5ft tunnel is gonna struggle with a swinging a maul around
all of what you said is fair and i thank you for the feedback, and will take note for what to and what not to implement, but i feel i must justify my penalty for thrown/ranged weapons. They're not as a efficient as guns you dont ads, at long range you especially have to arc the projectiles trajectory, this means firing up, which you cant do if the ceiling is 5ft high hence the auto fail as its not possible, but if the target is close its propably fine and even an easy shot hence no penalty for first range increment, this just means theres no penalty from being thrown, it may or may not recieve penalties from its other properties, so basically im trying to keep the penalties the same wether its thrown or used in melee, as its overly complicated to have the same weapon be penalised differently based on that.
Edit: Ive changed the wording slightly to better indicate this
I would avoid making certain weapon types worse than others unless you also have another set of special rules which give situations where those weapon types are better than others.
Yep, there are rules for this already. InquisitiveCoder posted the most relevant part, but here's the whole section:
Squeezing into a Smaller Space
A creature can squeeze through a space that is large enough for a creature one size smaller than it. Thus, a Large creature can squeeze through a passage that's only 5 feet wide. While squeezing through a space, a creature must spend 1 extra foot for every foot it moves there, and it has disadvantage on attack rolls and Dexterity saving throws. Attack rolls against the creature have advantage while it's in the smaller space.
That's not really a satisfying answer to the issue, since in a small space everyone would have disadvantage on their attacks, but then advantage on them also. So everything is washed out and all attacks would just be normal. Which, idk, if you've ever tried to swing a weapon in a tight cramped space but it just doesn't pass the even-remotely-realistic sniff test to be able to fight with normal accuracy/power in that situation.
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I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
In practice it's rare that you'd be fighting an opponent of equal size while squeezing. Odds are you're fighting something smaller than you or you've tricked something bigger than you into squeezing to get at you.
In practice it's rare that you'd be fighting an opponent of equal size while squeezing. Odds are you're fighting something smaller than you or you've tricked something bigger than you into squeezing to get at you.
Or you're in the hallway of any realistic sized ancient building that didn't have its dimensions artificially expanded to 5ft to fit on a gridmap.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
Yep, there are rules for this already. InquisitiveCoder posted the most relevant part, but here's the whole section:
Squeezing into a Smaller Space
A creature can squeeze through a space that is large enough for a creature one size smaller than it. Thus, a Large creature can squeeze through a passage that's only 5 feet wide. While squeezing through a space, a creature must spend 1 extra foot for every foot it moves there, and it has disadvantage on attack rolls and Dexterity saving throws. Attack rolls against the creature have advantage while it's in the smaller space.
That's not really a satisfying answer to the issue, since in a small space everyone would have disadvantage on their attacks, but then advantage on them also. So everything is washed out and all attacks would just be normal. Which, idk, if you've ever tried to swing a weapon in a tight cramped space but it just doesn't pass the even-remotely-realistic sniff test to be able to fight with normal accuracy/power in that situation.
Not everyone. Small and tiny opponents will have advantage over medium creatures. Also I'm not super interested in trying to make D&D more "realistic." I prefer high adventure fantasy.
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Canto alla vita alla sua bellezza ad ogni sua ferita ogni sua carezza!
I sing to life and to its tragic beauty To pain and to strife, but all that dances through me The rise and the fall, I've lived through it all!
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When squeezing into a small space, Certain weapons will be too large to use effectively, if usable at all.
- Melee Weapons with the two-handed or reach property are unusable due being too big and awkward to swing.
- All attacks with versatile weapons have disadvantage as their size makes them difficult but not impossible to use in tight spaces.
- Thrown and Ranged attacks automatically miss if used past their first range increment as there is not enough vertical room to allow long range projectile travel.
- Finally attacks with light weapons that deal piercing damage have advantage as they are well designed for fighting in small spaces against foes with little room to move.
Thoughts?
That could definitely work.
I'm lazy, I would probably just say you could make a thrusting/stabbing attack with all weapons but, would see your damage dice reduced to the next type if your weapon wasn't piercing , 1d6 to 1d4, etc. No other penalties.
You should just deal with this on a case-by-case basis instead of trying to come up with blanket rules based on weapon properties. The game's not designed to handle this level of realism. Also, the game already has squeezing rules that give disadvantage on attacks:
Most of the weapons affected by these rules can still be used somewhat effectively in close quarters (some more than others, of course.) Polearms are still going to have effective thrusts. Axes, hammers, polearms, greatswords and longswords can all be held closer to the head or tip to trade range for reduced swing arc or better thrusts.
At this point you might be tempted to come up with a big table of secondary damages for these weapons, but instead of forcing your players to track a huge amount of house rules, why not just use the improvised weapon rules and either change the damage to a d4 or use the damage of a weaker weapon as needed? E.g. When half-swording a longsword, you can treat that as a shortsword that happens to require two hands. When holding a greataxe close to the head, you can treat it as a handaxe.
This one is weird. You don't think there's enough room to swing many melee weapons effectively but there's enough room to do an overhead spear or javelin throw? That should definitely not be something you can do without disadvantage, even within the normal range.
The squeezing rules already grant advantage.
The Forum Infestation (TM)
Yep, there are rules for this already. InquisitiveCoder posted the most relevant part, but here's the whole section:
Squeezing into a Smaller Space
A creature can squeeze through a space that is large enough for a creature one size smaller than it. Thus, a Large creature can squeeze through a passage that's only 5 feet wide. While squeezing through a space, a creature must spend 1 extra foot for every foot it moves there, and it has disadvantage on attack rolls and Dexterity saving throws. Attack rolls against the creature have advantage while it's in the smaller space.
Canto alla vita
alla sua bellezza
ad ogni sua ferita
ogni sua carezza!
I sing to life and to its tragic beauty
To pain and to strife, but all that dances through me
The rise and the fall, I've lived through it all!
im not neccessarily saying about squeezing into a smaller space as in size increment wise as as even a medium creature in a 5ftby5ft tunnel is gonna struggle with a swinging a maul around
all of what you said is fair and i thank you for the feedback, and will take note for what to and what not to implement, but i feel i must justify my penalty for thrown/ranged weapons. They're not as a efficient as guns you dont ads, at long range you especially have to arc the projectiles trajectory, this means firing up, which you cant do if the ceiling is 5ft high hence the auto fail as its not possible, but if the target is close its propably fine and even an easy shot hence no penalty for first range increment, this just means theres no penalty from being thrown, it may or may not recieve penalties from its other properties, so basically im trying to keep the penalties the same wether its thrown or used in melee, as its overly complicated to have the same weapon be penalised differently based on that.
Edit: Ive changed the wording slightly to better indicate this
I would avoid making certain weapon types worse than others unless you also have another set of special rules which give situations where those weapon types are better than others.
That's not really a satisfying answer to the issue, since in a small space everyone would have disadvantage on their attacks, but then advantage on them also. So everything is washed out and all attacks would just be normal. Which, idk, if you've ever tried to swing a weapon in a tight cramped space but it just doesn't pass the even-remotely-realistic sniff test to be able to fight with normal accuracy/power in that situation.
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
In practice it's rare that you'd be fighting an opponent of equal size while squeezing. Odds are you're fighting something smaller than you or you've tricked something bigger than you into squeezing to get at you.
The Forum Infestation (TM)
Or you're in the hallway of any realistic sized ancient building that didn't have its dimensions artificially expanded to 5ft to fit on a gridmap.
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
Not everyone. Small and tiny opponents will have advantage over medium creatures. Also I'm not super interested in trying to make D&D more "realistic." I prefer high adventure fantasy.
Canto alla vita
alla sua bellezza
ad ogni sua ferita
ogni sua carezza!
I sing to life and to its tragic beauty
To pain and to strife, but all that dances through me
The rise and the fall, I've lived through it all!