I believe I understand what this spell does, but I wanted to confirm that.
My understanding is
When you cast it, you can pick one of the effects
On the start of your next turn, the previous effect you've chosen ends
Up to 10minutes (assuming concentration) you can use your action to apply a new effect (may or may not be the same one)
Is this correct?
Basically the two things I wanted to clarify are:
If you pick an effect (eg: whirlpool) and do not re-apply it on the next turn (because you choose to attack with a weapon instead for example), the effect (eg: whirlpool)
You can cast the spell, then do something else for a few rounds, then re-apply some effect without the need for re-cast. So for instance on turn #1 I could cast Control Water & create a Whirlpool, on turns #2 and #3 I choose to attack with a weapon instead (and so the whirlpool fades) and on turn #4 I can still make a new whirlpool without needing to re-cast the spell
There doesn't seem to be any Sage Advice on this topic, so I would interpret it exactly as the text implies. It requires your action to maintain any of the effects. If you spend an action doing something else entirely, the effects from the previous round ends: water that is parted will crash back to the position it was before, a raised water level will either subside gradually or quickly (to possibly disastrous results), etc. The actual effect of these is up to the DM to improvise.
Until the spell ends, you control any freestanding water inside an area you choose that is a cube up to 100 feet on a side. You can choose from any of the following effects when you cast this spell. As an action on your turn, you can repeat the same effect or choose a different one.
Flood. You cause the water level of all standing water in the area to rise by as much as 20 feet. If the area includes a shore, the flooding water spills over onto dry land.
If you choose an area in a large body of water, you instead create a 20-foot tall wave that travels from one side of the area to the other and then crashes down. Any Huge or smaller vehicles in the wave's path are carried with it to the other side. Any Huge or smaller vehicles struck by the wave have a 25 percent chance of capsizing.
The water level remains elevated until the spell ends or you choose a different effect. If this effect produced a wave, the wave repeats on the start of your next turn while the flood effect lasts.
Part Water. You cause water in the area to move apart and create a trench. The trench extends across the spell's area, and the separated water forms a wall to either side. The trench remains until the spell ends or you choose a different effect. The water then slowly fills in the trench over the course of the next round until the normal water level is restored.
Redirect Flow. You cause flowing water in the area to move in a direction you choose, even if the water has to flow over obstacles, up walls, or in other unlikely directions. The water in the area moves as you direct it, but once it moves beyond the spell's area, it resumes its flow based on the terrain conditions. The water continues to move in the direction you chose until the spell ends or you choose a different effect.
Whirlpool. This effect requires a body of water at least 50 feet square and 25 feet deep. You cause a whirlpool to form in the center of the area. The whirlpool forms a vortex that is 5 feet wide at the base, up to 50 feet wide at the top, and 25 feet tall. Any creature or object in the water and within 25 feet of the vortex is pulled 10 feet toward it. A creature can swim away from the vortex by making a Strength (Athletics) check against your spell save DC.
When a creature enters the vortex for the first time on a turn or starts its turn there, it must make a Strength saving throw. On a failed save, the creature takes 2d8 bludgeoning damage and is caught in the vortex until the spell ends. On a successful save, the creature takes half damage, and isn't caught in the vortex. A creature caught in the vortex can use its action to try to swim away from the vortex as described above, but has disadvantage on the Strength (Athletics) check to do so.
The first time each turn that an object enters the vortex, the object takes 2d8 bludgeoning damage; this damage occurs each round it remains in the vortex.
Looks like the Whirlpool is the only use that doesn't specify it ends when you choose a different effect. In fact, the Whirlpool specifically says that targets caught in it are caught until the spell ends. As bizarre (and probably unintended) as it is, I believe that you can throw up a Whirlpool, catch a victim, and then switch to other effects while that victim continues to be subjected to its effects. Slightly more ambiguous whether the vortex remains capable of catching new victims, but again it doesn't say it ends, and it's hard to imagine how a vortex could continue to harm some victims but be unable to catch new ones so.... yeah, I think it's just a self sustaining Whirlpool, while you are freed up to use the other three functions.
Been searching online for an answer about control water. My question is off the assumption that the spell works on sea water (acidic) and soapy water (basic solution) from a laundry mat. Can it be used on pools of acids which are basically water with additives that change the PH of the liquid?
Acid is basically water with an excess of H+ ions and a base is water with an excess of OH- ions
Plus sea water has a ton of different chemicals and elements in it also.
add on : sea water PH ranges from a PH of 8 (basic) to 5 (acidic), with pure water being a 7 (neutral)
It’s Control Water, not Control Liquid, so right off the bat you’ve got plain language against you. 5E doesn’t really simulate chemical properties, and they may not meaningfully interact with magical rules. Is saltwater “water”? Yes. Is blood , or acid, or milk, or etc etc “water”? No, not in any meaningful sense.
wishy washy dnd magiks. You're casting a magical spell, not doing chemistry, so my rule would be that you have named two liquids with water in their title there. no sorcerer casting vitriolic sphere is gonna describe summoning a radius of high ph water. To me you've answered your own question by naming the liquids. if your description of a liquid instinctively mentions water, ("salt water, swamp water, soapy water, fresh water etc.), go for it. Otherwise you'll waste time arguing with most dms
I have questions about moving it. It says you control a 100 foot cube of water and that you can choose a different effect at the beginning of each round.
Is it meant to be that same cube of water? Other spells like Moonbeam and Flaming Sphere allow moving the effect, so it makes sense there would be one here for a spell that lasts 10 minutes.
Also while the spell Tidal Wave mentions a damage when it crashes down, but Control Water does not for the flood effect which also has a similar size wave crashes down. I say it is the same damage. Odd omission though.
I'm asking because as a player my DM allowed moving the effect and I got fantastic results with the part water effect in ship combat. I placed it under their bow and their ship pitched in and capsized. I then switched to whirlpool on the next ship and forced their surrender. I loved it and it was a great image, but I felt like I was getting away with something.
As written Control Water: doesn't deal damage unless the DM rule otherwise.
For moving water Redirect Flow affect water in the area, causing it to move in a direction you choose, but once it moves beyond the spell's area, it resumes its flow based on the terrain conditions.
First step: Be a dwarf with Control Water. - Go to an elven tavern and buy their finest wine.
It's B4D (Bad Booze Bought By Dwarves; D4C reference)
Moments before the tavern is Flooded by leaf ale: "This junk is crappy booze water!"
Now that's out of my system, I feel that RAW you are unable to move the area you're controlling. The highly similar Control Winds spell states you cause effects "in a 100-foot cube that you can see within range." While the Control Water spell has a few differences in wording I doubt either area can be moved after casting. However, after reading both spells, I could see many tables allowing the areas of Control Winds and by extension, Control Water to move.
I believe the magic of Control Water is less focused than Tidal Wave and so small creatures are safe as the water recedes. I think of it more like an earthquake: Small yet precise quakes can destroy houses and are quite dangerous on their own, yet they can't touch bigger buildings. Notably, Flood is far bigger than Tidal Wave. Flood is 100ft wide and 20ft tall while Tidal Wave is only 10 by 10ft. Maybe it's like getting pressure washed so the small one hurts.
I don't think this is correct. As you pointed out, it doesn't specifically say it ends with a new effect, but the general text of the spell says you either choose a new effect or repeat the current one. Without reporting the current one, the vortex won't exist.
So, the only thing in favor of the before mentioned interpretation is that creatures are stuck in the vortex until the spell ends.
However, this doesn't say the vortex persists for the duration of the spell and then you must apply the basic rule of needing to repeat an effect or choose a different one.
So yes they are stuck in the vortex, while it exists, potentially until the end of the spell.
Until the spell ends, you control any freestanding water inside an area you choose that is a cube up to 100 feet on a side. You can choose from any of the following effects when you cast this spell. As an action on your turn, you can repeat the same effect or choose a different one.
Flood. You cause the water level of all standing water in the area to rise by as much as 20 feet. If the area includes a shore, the flooding water spills over onto dry land.
If you choose an area in a large body of water, you instead create a 20-foot tall wave that travels from one side of the area to the other and then crashes down. Any Huge or smaller vehicles in the wave's path are carried with it to the other side. Any Huge or smaller vehicles struck by the wave have a 25 percent chance of capsizing.
The water level remains elevated until the spell ends or you choose a different effect. If this effect produced a wave, the wave repeats on the start of your next turn while the flood effect lasts.
Part Water. You cause water in the area to move apart and create a trench. The trench extends across the spell's area, and the separated water forms a wall to either side. The trench remains until the spell ends or you choose a different effect. The water then slowly fills in the trench over the course of the next round until the normal water level is restored.
Redirect Flow. You cause flowing water in the area to move in a direction you choose, even if the water has to flow over obstacles, up walls, or in other unlikely directions. The water in the area moves as you direct it, but once it moves beyond the spell's area, it resumes its flow based on the terrain conditions. The water continues to move in the direction you chose until the spell ends or you choose a different effect.
Whirlpool. This effect requires a body of water at least 50 feet square and 25 feet deep. You cause a whirlpool to form in the center of the area. The whirlpool forms a vortex that is 5 feet wide at the base, up to 50 feet wide at the top, and 25 feet tall. Any creature or object in the water and within 25 feet of the vortex is pulled 10 feet toward it. A creature can swim away from the vortex by making a Strength (Athletics) check against your spell save DC.
When a creature enters the vortex for the first time on a turn or starts its turn there, it must make a Strength saving throw. On a failed save, the creature takes 2d8 bludgeoning damage and is caught in the vortex until the spell ends. On a successful save, the creature takes half damage, and isn't caught in the vortex. A creature caught in the vortex can use its action to try to swim away from the vortex as described above, but has disadvantage on the Strength (Athletics) check to do so.
The first time each turn that an object enters the vortex, the object takes 2d8 bludgeoning damage; this damage occurs each round it remains in the vortex.
Looks like the Whirlpool is the only use that doesn't specify it ends when you choose a different effect. In fact, the Whirlpool specifically says that targets caught in it are caught until the spell ends. As bizarre (and probably unintended) as it is, I believe that you can throw up a Whirlpool, catch a victim, and then switch to other effects while that victim continues to be subjected to its effects. Slightly more ambiguous whether the vortex remains capable of catching new victims, but again it doesn't say it ends, and it's hard to imagine how a vortex could continue to harm some victims but be unable to catch new ones so.... yeah, I think it's just a self sustaining Whirlpool, while you are freed up to use the other three functions.
Nothing says the vortex persists if you choose a different effect as your action. The rule says you repeat the effect or choose a new one. Then each effect states what happens persistently (the risen water staying, the wave repeating etc.).
So, they are stuck in the vortex until the spell ends, but the vortex will cease to exist if a new effect is chosen.
Nothing says the vortex persists if you choose a different effect as your action. The rule says you repeat the effect or choose a new one. Then each effect states what happens persistently (the risen water staying, the wave repeating etc.).
So, they are stuck in the vortex until the spell ends, but the vortex will cease to exist if a new effect is chosen.
Nothing says it stops so, per the spell description, any creature caught in the Vortex takes damage until the spell ends or they escape.
NOTE: The above is a necroed thread about the 2014 version of Control Water. The 2024 version of Control Water explicitly states that the Vortex ends if you choose a different effect. If you are playing with the 2014 version and have any doubts about RAI, consider the 2024 wording.
I believe I understand what this spell does, but I wanted to confirm that.
My understanding is
Is this correct?
Basically the two things I wanted to clarify are:
Is this correct?
Thanks in advance!
There doesn't seem to be any Sage Advice on this topic, so I would interpret it exactly as the text implies. It requires your action to maintain any of the effects. If you spend an action doing something else entirely, the effects from the previous round ends: water that is parted will crash back to the position it was before, a raised water level will either subside gradually or quickly (to possibly disastrous results), etc. The actual effect of these is up to the DM to improvise.
Control Water:
Looks like the Whirlpool is the only use that doesn't specify it ends when you choose a different effect. In fact, the Whirlpool specifically says that targets caught in it are caught until the spell ends. As bizarre (and probably unintended) as it is, I believe that you can throw up a Whirlpool, catch a victim, and then switch to other effects while that victim continues to be subjected to its effects. Slightly more ambiguous whether the vortex remains capable of catching new victims, but again it doesn't say it ends, and it's hard to imagine how a vortex could continue to harm some victims but be unable to catch new ones so.... yeah, I think it's just a self sustaining Whirlpool, while you are freed up to use the other three functions.
dndbeyond.com forum tags
I'm going to make this way harder than it needs to be.
Well, that does make the spell much more flexible.
Been searching online for an answer about control water. My question is off the assumption that the spell works on sea water (acidic) and soapy water (basic solution) from a laundry mat. Can it be used on pools of acids which are basically water with additives that change the PH of the liquid?
Acid is basically water with an excess of H+ ions and a base is water with an excess of OH- ions
Plus sea water has a ton of different chemicals and elements in it also.
add on : sea water PH ranges from a PH of 8 (basic) to 5 (acidic), with pure water being a 7 (neutral)
Cats go Moo!
It’s Control Water, not Control Liquid, so right off the bat you’ve got plain language against you. 5E doesn’t really simulate chemical properties, and they may not meaningfully interact with magical rules. Is saltwater “water”? Yes. Is blood , or acid, or milk, or etc etc “water”? No, not in any meaningful sense.
dndbeyond.com forum tags
I'm going to make this way harder than it needs to be.
Urine is basically sea water... actually it has less of non - H2O components than sea water.
As for milk and blood they coagulate fairly quickly when their surfaces are exposed to room temperature air or higher .
But I see what you mean... Basically the rule of thumb is if you have to ask if it's water for purposes of the spell,
consider it not to be.
Seems a fair enough. Also could be what your DM finally decides for your own game>
Cats go Moo!
wishy washy dnd magiks. You're casting a magical spell, not doing chemistry, so my rule would be that you have named two liquids with water in their title there. no sorcerer casting vitriolic sphere is gonna describe summoning a radius of high ph water. To me you've answered your own question by naming the liquids. if your description of a liquid instinctively mentions water, ("salt water, swamp water, soapy water, fresh water etc.), go for it. Otherwise you'll waste time arguing with most dms
I have questions about moving it. It says you control a 100 foot cube of water and that you can choose a different effect at the beginning of each round.
Is it meant to be that same cube of water? Other spells like Moonbeam and Flaming Sphere allow moving the effect, so it makes sense there would be one here for a spell that lasts 10 minutes.
Also while the spell Tidal Wave mentions a damage when it crashes down, but Control Water does not for the flood effect which also has a similar size wave crashes down. I say it is the same damage. Odd omission though.
I'm asking because as a player my DM allowed moving the effect and I got fantastic results with the part water effect in ship combat. I placed it under their bow and their ship pitched in and capsized. I then switched to whirlpool on the next ship and forced their surrender. I loved it and it was a great image, but I felt like I was getting away with something.
As written Control Water: doesn't deal damage unless the DM rule otherwise.
For moving water Redirect Flow affect water in the area, causing it to move in a direction you choose, but once it moves beyond the spell's area, it resumes its flow based on the terrain conditions.
First step: Be a dwarf with Control Water. - Go to an elven tavern and buy their finest wine.
It's B4D (Bad Booze Bought By Dwarves; D4C reference)
Moments before the tavern is Flooded by leaf ale: "This junk is crappy booze water!"
Now that's out of my system, I feel that RAW you are unable to move the area you're controlling. The highly similar Control Winds spell states you cause effects "in a 100-foot cube that you can see within range." While the Control Water spell has a few differences in wording I doubt either area can be moved after casting. However, after reading both spells, I could see many tables allowing the areas of Control Winds and by extension, Control Water to move.
I believe the magic of Control Water is less focused than Tidal Wave and so small creatures are safe as the water recedes. I think of it more like an earthquake: Small yet precise quakes can destroy houses and are quite dangerous on their own, yet they can't touch bigger buildings. Notably, Flood is far bigger than Tidal Wave. Flood is 100ft wide and 20ft tall while Tidal Wave is only 10 by 10ft. Maybe it's like getting pressure washed so the small one hurts.
I don't think this is correct. As you pointed out, it doesn't specifically say it ends with a new effect, but the general text of the spell says you either choose a new effect or repeat the current one. Without reporting the current one, the vortex won't exist.
So, the only thing in favor of the before mentioned interpretation is that creatures are stuck in the vortex until the spell ends.
However, this doesn't say the vortex persists for the duration of the spell and then you must apply the basic rule of needing to repeat an effect or choose a different one.
So yes they are stuck in the vortex, while it exists, potentially until the end of the spell.
Nothing says the vortex persists if you choose a different effect as your action. The rule says you repeat the effect or choose a new one. Then each effect states what happens persistently (the risen water staying, the wave repeating etc.).
So, they are stuck in the vortex until the spell ends, but the vortex will cease to exist if a new effect is chosen.
Nothing says it stops so, per the spell description, any creature caught in the Vortex takes damage until the spell ends or they escape.
NOTE: The above is a necroed thread about the 2014 version of Control Water. The 2024 version of Control Water explicitly states that the Vortex ends if you choose a different effect. If you are playing with the 2014 version and have any doubts about RAI, consider the 2024 wording.
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