Was planning ahead for when I get 5th level spells on my Druid and had a question on Wall of Stone.
It says: If the wall cuts through a creature's space when it appears, the creature is pushed to one side of the wall (your choice). If a creature would be surrounded on all sides by the wall (or the wall and another solid surface), that creature can make a Dexterity saving throw. On a success, it can use its reaction to move up to its speed so that it is no longer enclosed by the wall.
So does that mean that if I want to separate some enemies from the rest of the group, by surrounding them with a wall, or possibly divide a room/cavern in half with them on the other side where they can't get out until the spell ends, they can move if they make the saving throw? even if there is plenty of space where they are at and not confined to a small square they are standing?
So long as an affected creature has a reaction available and sufficient speed to escape, they are granted the opportunity to do so. This may stretch the limits of what a "reaction" ought to allow, but is important for game balance, as entrapment can be an instant encounter ender. Coordinating with another party member to impair their escape can easily circumvent this loophole.
The reason for this rule is I think pretty obvious - to make "wall of stone" not be an instant no-save way to take someone out of the battle. Without that rule, wall of stone would be a way to take someone out of the fight - round 1, cast wall of stone putting one or more of the enemies in a box, they're as good as out of the fight. The save turns it into a more traditional "save or suck" spell if used in combat - creatures that make the save get a chance to not be boxed in.
In terms of theme and what's actually happening, I'd interpret this as similar to a Dex saving throw - the enemies see something's happening and if they react fast enough (make their dex save) get to mitigate it or dodge it.
I think it takes some DM judgement to determine what it means by "surrounded on all sides". Does that just mean trapped in a one-hex box? Or if they're separated from their allies? So usually it's pretty obvious, but sometimes you might get weird edge cases.
I would rule "surrounded on all sides" as meaning that there is no way to move out of the enclosed area using standard movement. So if you are blocking off a passage with an exit at each end, you aren't "surrounding" a creature, but if you are blocking off a dead end passage, you are, and the save/reaction can be attempted.
In terms of the size of the "surrounded" area, I would say the size is irrelevant, but the upper limit is tied to the creature movement speed, so there is a functional limit as to when the save/reaction is usable.
That makes sense, I guess. Was just caught by surprise as Wall of Force does not have this saving throw. And it's the same level spell though not on the Druid list.
Walls of Force are invisible and silent, so a target wouldn't be aware of the need to escape. However, because it is transparent, a target can use spells like Misty step to do so.
Wall of Stone has the benefit of being made permanent, if concentrated on for its full duration.
Was planning ahead for when I get 5th level spells on my Druid and had a question on Wall of Stone.
It says: If the wall cuts through a creature's space when it appears, the creature is pushed to one side of the wall (your choice). If a creature would be surrounded on all sides by the wall (or the wall and another solid surface), that creature can make a Dexterity saving throw. On a success, it can use its reaction to move up to its speed so that it is no longer enclosed by the wall.
So does that mean that if I want to separate some enemies from the rest of the group, by surrounding them with a wall, or possibly divide a room/cavern in half with them on the other side where they can't get out until the spell ends, they can move if they make the saving throw? even if there is plenty of space where they are at and not confined to a small square they are standing?
EZD6 by DM Scotty
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/397599/EZD6-Core-Rulebook?
Correct.
So long as an affected creature has a reaction available and sufficient speed to escape, they are granted the opportunity to do so. This may stretch the limits of what a "reaction" ought to allow, but is important for game balance, as entrapment can be an instant encounter ender. Coordinating with another party member to impair their escape can easily circumvent this loophole.
The reason for this rule is I think pretty obvious - to make "wall of stone" not be an instant no-save way to take someone out of the battle. Without that rule, wall of stone would be a way to take someone out of the fight - round 1, cast wall of stone putting one or more of the enemies in a box, they're as good as out of the fight. The save turns it into a more traditional "save or suck" spell if used in combat - creatures that make the save get a chance to not be boxed in.
In terms of theme and what's actually happening, I'd interpret this as similar to a Dex saving throw - the enemies see something's happening and if they react fast enough (make their dex save) get to mitigate it or dodge it.
I think it takes some DM judgement to determine what it means by "surrounded on all sides". Does that just mean trapped in a one-hex box? Or if they're separated from their allies? So usually it's pretty obvious, but sometimes you might get weird edge cases.
I would rule "surrounded on all sides" as meaning that there is no way to move out of the enclosed area using standard movement. So if you are blocking off a passage with an exit at each end, you aren't "surrounding" a creature, but if you are blocking off a dead end passage, you are, and the save/reaction can be attempted.
In terms of the size of the "surrounded" area, I would say the size is irrelevant, but the upper limit is tied to the creature movement speed, so there is a functional limit as to when the save/reaction is usable.
That makes sense, I guess. Was just caught by surprise as Wall of Force does not have this saving throw. And it's the same level spell though not on the Druid list.
EZD6 by DM Scotty
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/397599/EZD6-Core-Rulebook?
Walls of Force are invisible and silent, so a target wouldn't be aware of the need to escape. However, because it is transparent, a target can use spells like Misty step to do so.
Wall of Stone has the benefit of being made permanent, if concentrated on for its full duration.