Ah, that is a helpful Sage Advice showing that the phrase "made using the weapon" is intended to be limited to weapon attacks using the weapon, not all attacks using the weapon. Of course, I already agreed that that was RAI, I still think there's a RAW gap there that needed better phrasing.
Yeah, they really should have done a better job addressing that right in the PHB. Same with the whole "what is/isn't a quarterstaff" crapstravaganza; that should've been explicitly detailed in the PHB, not just the DMG.
The magic weapon bonus not applying to spells threw me for a loop when I transitioned to 5e, but made sense once I saw there was a specific property for impacting spell attack/DC. As far as RAW goes, the fact that they distinctly separate the Weapon, +2 property from the +2 to spell attacks in Staff of the Woodlands is enough to see that they apply to different things.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
Yo! If you're playing a druid you can have +5 from WIS and +2 from the staff for attack rolls and +2 from proficiency. The other +2 the staff gives is for spell attack rolls ie when you need to make a check for ranged spells. Not for your spell casting ability. So your spell casting ability just stays at five..
I also think a staff is not a quaterstaff even though it can be wielded as one, just like a chair can be wielded as a weapon is still not a weapon. Therefore Shillelagh doesn't work with it. It
I also think a staff is not a quaterstaff even though it can be wielded as one, just like a chair can be wielded as a weapon is still not a weapon. Therefore Shillelagh doesn't work with it. It
There is a categorization error going on here. All quarterstaffs are staffs, but not all staffs are quarterstaffs. Like the ol' All brown dogs are brown, but not everything which is brown is a brown dog.
So, think of "Staff" as the larger group/category. And, it includes both quarterstaffs staffs and non-quarterstaffs staffs.
The specific item in question, Staff of the Woodland, is indeed a Staff. But, it is a Staff that is also a Quarterstaff. Why? Well, it says it is one.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
I also think a staff is not a quaterstaff even though it can be wielded as one, just like a chair can be wielded as a weapon is still not a weapon. Therefore Shillelagh doesn't work with it. It
There is a categorization error going on here. All quarterstaffs are staffs, but not all staffs are quarterstaffs. Like the ol' All brown dogs are brown, but not everything which is brown is a brown dog.
So, think of "Staff" as the larger group/category. And, it includes both quarterstaffs staffs and non-quarterstaffs staffs.
The specific item in question, Staff of the Woodland, is indeed a Staff. But, it is a Staff that is also a Quarterstaff. Why? Well, it says it is one.
That's actually the reverse of the way that the rules describe things in D&D, even if it makes sense external to the game. In D&D, a quarterstaff is any hunk of wood suitable for hitting with (and can be quite cheap), whereas a staff is an expensive hunk of wood or other material suitable for use as a focus. A wooden staff may or may not be just a staff made of wood. Apparently it was a rules question as to whether a druid only item that called it a staff and was made of wood was an item that a druid could use.
Simply judging by price, it is easy to see that you can't replace a staff with a quarterstaff.
I also think a staff is not a quaterstaff even though it can be wielded as one, just like a chair can be wielded as a weapon is still not a weapon. Therefore Shillelagh doesn't work with it. It
There is a categorization error going on here. All quarterstaffs are staffs, but not all staffs are quarterstaffs. Like the ol' All brown dogs are brown, but not everything which is brown is a brown dog.
So, think of "Staff" as the larger group/category. And, it includes both quarterstaffs staffs and non-quarterstaffs staffs.
The specific item in question, Staff of the Woodland, is indeed a Staff. But, it is a Staff that is also a Quarterstaff. Why? Well, it says it is one.
That's actually the reverse of the way that the rules describe things in D&D, even if it makes sense external to the game. In D&D, a quarterstaff is any hunk of wood suitable for hitting with (and can be quite cheap), whereas a staff is an expensive hunk of wood or other material suitable for use as a focus. A wooden staff may or may not be just a staff made of wood. Apparently it was a rules question as to whether a druid only item that called it a staff and was made of wood was an item that a druid could use.
Simply judging by price, it is easy to see that you can't replace a staff with a quarterstaff.
Right, I see what you are saying. They did needlessly complicate things when they named an arcane focus simply "staff". The English word Staff, however, categorically includes all types of staffs. Quarterstaff included.
So all Quarterstaff are staffs. But not all staffs are the item named staff in the equipment section which is actually an arcane focus.
Edit: Items links added for clarity between discussing the item vs using the word in English common usage.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
I guess strictly speaking, even if staff of the woodlands isn't a druid focus, you could still use a component pouch or another focus like a yew wand or a moon sickle and gain the benefit of the staff. You wouldn't be able to also wield a shield though.
I also think a staff is not a quaterstaff even though it can be wielded as one, just like a chair can be wielded as a weapon is still not a weapon. Therefore Shillelagh doesn't work with it. It
From the DMG p140 - this is talking about magical staffs like the Staff of the Woodlands.
"STAFFS A magic staff is about 5 or 6 feet long. Staffs vary widely in appearance: some are of nearly equal diameter throughout and smooth, others are gnarled and twisted, some are made of wood, and others are composed of polished metal or crystal. Depending on the material, a staff weighs between 2 and 7 pounds.
Unless a staff's description says otherwise, a staff can be used as a quarterstaff"
As far as the rules are concerned - ALL staffs can be used as a quarterstaff unless the item descriptions specifically states otherwise. If a staff can be used as a quarterstaff it can be used in the shillelagh spell.
In addition,
"The wood of a club or quarterstaff you are holding is imbued with nature's power."
If a character is holding a staff and for some reason the DM won't consider it a quarterstaff then it can certainly be considered a wooden club since all a club is, is a long piece of wood. So either way, a wooden staff should function with the shillelagh spell.
Is this an inside joke I'm not a part of? Am I going insane?
Is there something particularly confusing? Or is this just sort of a general feeling that you get?
This thread is over a year old. Every new post so far has been a direct retread of discussions that were already had, back when the thread was new. I just don't get it.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
Ah, that is a helpful Sage Advice showing that the phrase "made using the weapon" is intended to be limited to weapon attacks using the weapon, not all attacks using the weapon. Of course, I already agreed that that was RAI, I still think there's a RAW gap there that needed better phrasing.
dndbeyond.com forum tags
I'm going to make this way harder than it needs to be.
Yeah, they really should have done a better job addressing that right in the PHB. Same with the whole "what is/isn't a quarterstaff" crapstravaganza; that should've been explicitly detailed in the PHB, not just the DMG.
The magic weapon bonus not applying to spells threw me for a loop when I transitioned to 5e, but made sense once I saw there was a specific property for impacting spell attack/DC. As far as RAW goes, the fact that they distinctly separate the Weapon, +2 property from the +2 to spell attacks in Staff of the Woodlands is enough to see that they apply to different things.
You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
Yo! If you're playing a druid you can have +5 from WIS and +2 from the staff for attack rolls and +2 from proficiency. The other +2 the staff gives is for spell attack rolls ie when you need to make a check for ranged spells. Not for your spell casting ability. So your spell casting ability just stays at five..
If you have stat of 20 wisdom, or +5 wis, you use this instead your current strength modifier while under the effect of shillelagh. (+5)
if you are proficient with quarterstaffs you can add your proficiency bonus aswell. (+depending on your level)
and if your wielding the staff of woodlands a +2 is also added.(+2)
so you‘d have a + 9-13 (wis + staff of woodlands + proficiency bonus) on hit and +7 (wis + staff of woodlands) on damage
I also think a staff is not a quaterstaff even though it can be wielded as one, just like a chair can be wielded as a weapon is still not a weapon. Therefore Shillelagh doesn't work with it. It
Are we going to do this whole thread again?
There is a categorization error going on here. All quarterstaffs are staffs, but not all staffs are quarterstaffs. Like the ol' All brown dogs are brown, but not everything which is brown is a brown dog.
So, think of "Staff" as the larger group/category. And, it includes both quarterstaffs staffs and non-quarterstaffs staffs.
The specific item in question, Staff of the Woodland, is indeed a Staff. But, it is a Staff that is also a Quarterstaff. Why? Well, it says it is one.
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
That's actually the reverse of the way that the rules describe things in D&D, even if it makes sense external to the game. In D&D, a quarterstaff is any hunk of wood suitable for hitting with (and can be quite cheap), whereas a staff is an expensive hunk of wood or other material suitable for use as a focus. A wooden staff may or may not be just a staff made of wood. Apparently it was a rules question as to whether a druid only item that called it a staff and was made of wood was an item that a druid could use.
Simply judging by price, it is easy to see that you can't replace a staff with a quarterstaff.
Right, I see what you are saying. They did needlessly complicate things when they named an arcane focus simply "staff". The English word Staff, however, categorically includes all types of staffs. Quarterstaff included.
So all Quarterstaff are staffs. But not all staffs are the item named staff in the equipment section which is actually an arcane focus.
Edit: Items links added for clarity between discussing the item vs using the word in English common usage.
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
I guess strictly speaking, even if staff of the woodlands isn't a druid focus, you could still use a component pouch or another focus like a yew wand or a moon sickle and gain the benefit of the staff. You wouldn't be able to also wield a shield though.
Just to clarify ...
From the DMG p140 - this is talking about magical staffs like the Staff of the Woodlands.
"STAFFS
A magic staff is about 5 or 6 feet long. Staffs vary widely in appearance: some are of nearly equal diameter throughout and smooth, others are gnarled and twisted, some are made of wood, and others are composed of polished metal or crystal. Depending on the material, a staff weighs between 2 and 7 pounds.
Unless a staff's description says otherwise, a staff can be used as a quarterstaff"
As far as the rules are concerned - ALL staffs can be used as a quarterstaff unless the item descriptions specifically states otherwise. If a staff can be used as a quarterstaff it can be used in the shillelagh spell.
In addition,
"The wood of a club or quarterstaff you are holding is imbued with nature's power."
If a character is holding a staff and for some reason the DM won't consider it a quarterstaff then it can certainly be considered a wooden club since all a club is, is a long piece of wood. So either way, a wooden staff should function with the shillelagh spell.
Is this an inside joke I'm not a part of? Am I going insane?
Is there something particularly confusing? Or is this just sort of a general feeling that you get?
This thread is over a year old. Every new post so far has been a direct retread of discussions that were already had, back when the thread was new. I just don't get it.