Weird scenario that came up in a game last night: our barbarian was charmed and ordered to attack the rest of the group. On my turn I successfully cast suggestion on the barb and tell him “you should murder the villain for being prettier than you.”
The effects would layer so that the barb grudgingly starts attacking the villain, right? That is how we played it, and him role playing the confusion and mixed emotions was hilarious. Wanted to see if that was how such an interaction is supposed to play out for future reference though.
RAW, the barbarian wouldn’t be able to attack the villain. The charmed condition is clear: the charmed creature cannot attack the charmer or target them with harmful abilities or magic effects. Suggestion states “On a failed save, it pursues the course of action you described to the best of its ability.” Being charmed, the barbarian has no ability to carry out the suggestion.
RAW, the barbarian wouldn’t be able to attack the villain. The charmed condition is clear: the charmed creature cannot attack the charmer or target them with harmful abilities or magic effects. Suggestion states “On a failed save, it pursues the course of action you described to the best of its ability.” Being charmed, the barbarian has no ability to carry out the suggestion.
Darn. Well, it was fun for a session. Next time I’ll have to come up with another suggestion. Would grappling be a harmful effect or ability?
Yeah, it was probably dominate person. My character actually failed a save for it too just a round before. Fortunately, when I attacked an ally as ordered, I rolled a 1 and blew the head off the bbeg’s second in command by accident. The villain assumed I was immune somehow and recast the spell on our barb. It was a hilarious fight.
RAW, the barbarian wouldn’t be able to attack the villain. The charmed condition is clear: the charmed creature cannot attack the charmer or target them with harmful abilities or magic effects. Suggestion states “On a failed save, it pursues the course of action you described to the best of its ability.” Being charmed, the barbarian has no ability to carry out the suggestion.
Darn. Well, it was fun for a session. Next time I’ll have to come up with another suggestion. Would grappling be a harmful effect or ability?
Grappling is an attack, which charmed creatures can't do. If you want something you can do by RAW, you may want to think about casting Suggestion on the villain and having them attack the barbarian. Usually (I don't know of any exceptions, but there may be some), an effect that imposes the charmed condition ends if the charmer attacks the charmed creature.
That said, as long as the GM has a good understanding of what the rules actually say, it's fine to break those rules for the sake of fun or a more sensible scenario. If I had a mind to allow something like this, I may grant advantage to the barbarian's wisdom save to resist the suggestion due to the charm, but if they still failed, it's fun to play it out as you did, with the confusion of conflicting magical compulsions. That's a fun story.
Yeah, sounds like this table was more of a fast-and-loose with the rules kind of place - the natural 1 accidentally hitting someone else, the Villain assuming that their spell had failed and recasting it, etc. If that's the kind of fight I'm running, good chance I'd allow it. (Probably since by the rules of Charmed the barbarian can't actually make the attack, I'd probably have him attempt it but fail. Which could still lead to shenanigans.)
Weird scenario that came up in a game last night: our barbarian was charmed and ordered to attack the rest of the group. On my turn I successfully cast suggestion on the barb and tell him “you should murder the villain for being prettier than you.”
The effects would layer so that the barb grudgingly starts attacking the villain, right? That is how we played it, and him role playing the confusion and mixed emotions was hilarious. Wanted to see if that was how such an interaction is supposed to play out for future reference though.
RAW, the barbarian wouldn’t be able to attack the villain. The charmed condition is clear: the charmed creature cannot attack the charmer or target them with harmful abilities or magic effects. Suggestion states “On a failed save, it pursues the course of action you described to the best of its ability.” Being charmed, the barbarian has no ability to carry out the suggestion.
Darn. Well, it was fun for a session. Next time I’ll have to come up with another suggestion. Would grappling be a harmful effect or ability?
Yeah, it was probably dominate person. My character actually failed a save for it too just a round before. Fortunately, when I attacked an ally as ordered, I rolled a 1 and blew the head off the bbeg’s second in command by accident. The villain assumed I was immune somehow and recast the spell on our barb. It was a hilarious fight.
Grappling is an attack, which charmed creatures can't do. If you want something you can do by RAW, you may want to think about casting Suggestion on the villain and having them attack the barbarian. Usually (I don't know of any exceptions, but there may be some), an effect that imposes the charmed condition ends if the charmer attacks the charmed creature.
That said, as long as the GM has a good understanding of what the rules actually say, it's fine to break those rules for the sake of fun or a more sensible scenario. If I had a mind to allow something like this, I may grant advantage to the barbarian's wisdom save to resist the suggestion due to the charm, but if they still failed, it's fun to play it out as you did, with the confusion of conflicting magical compulsions. That's a fun story.
Yeah, sounds like this table was more of a fast-and-loose with the rules kind of place - the natural 1 accidentally hitting someone else, the Villain assuming that their spell had failed and recasting it, etc. If that's the kind of fight I'm running, good chance I'd allow it. (Probably since by the rules of Charmed the barbarian can't actually make the attack, I'd probably have him attempt it but fail. Which could still lead to shenanigans.)
Yeah, it’s our DMs first time running the table, and most of our group has only played occasionally for a few years.