Hey, DMing a curse of strahd group for a local store and it's my first time being a DM and also using the 5e rules. So my question is, why are vampires weak able to take all sorts of dage from running water? Is it because they are an abomination to the natural order or because..magic? And then is this effect happen if a player causes a flowing water like a druid using a spell to cause a wave to hit them?
Please like I said new to d&d and to being a DM thanks.
I wondered about this and how easy it could be to do something about it. But you have to remember the characters probably don't know about this weakness. While the vampires do. So they will do everything they can to not to put themselves into that positon.
That all being said. If the players come up with some grand scheme to get Strahd baptized. GO WITH IT! Let them have fun.
I just want to know 1. Why are vampires effected by running water like lore wise and 2. Does it have to be a natural flowing water or can a player conjure a flood in castle raven loft and have the effect or even change the flow of one of the rivers to assult a vampire.
Vampires are probably effected by running water because the original vampire lore from our world gives them that weakness. Modern vampires in media aren't that accurate to what they used to be (I'm looking at you Captain Sparkles).
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Hell yeah I am going to Polymorph the boss into a Rabbit. I have always wanted a being a pure evil stuffed into a ball of fluff.
I just want to know 1. Why are vampires effected by running water like lore wise and 2. Does it have to be a natural flowing water or can a player conjure a flood in castle raven loft and have the effect or even change the flow of one of the rivers to assult a vampire.
Yes the weakness about running water is because their are abominations of the natural order.
And Yes, my guess is that you can use Control water spell to do some damage, the problem would be that that spell is limited on the amount of water you can handle.
There are a couple different theories on this (as well as one of my own at the end):
1) Water vs earth (in an elemental standpoint):
When we bury the dead in the ground, there is a symbolism of you going back into the earth. Because they rise from the dead, Zombies, Vampires, etc... are all considered born from the earth (or reborn if you will). That's why in most genres you get the typical hand rising from the grave; it's symbolic of being born from the earth.
Meanwhile, water is considered life; running water even more so. Everything needs water to live. Wilderness survival experts (or those who watch shows on Discovery channel) know that pooled (or stagnant) water isn't good to drink without treatment, while running water is safe for drinking.
2) Vampires are considered not of this earth/reality:
This truth especially holds up when you think of their other weaknesses. Naturally occurring things such as sunlight and wood weaken/destroy them, so water just makes sense in that regard. The most natural parts of this reality are basically all trying to kill them (sun, plants, water).
3) My idea - Running water (rivers) are a natural border/threshold:
Regional land borders have almost always been separated by water; whether it be rivers, lakes, or sea. Much like the idea that they can't enter a home unless invited in, it's possible that this same sort of border affects them, albeit to a lesser degree (instead of completely rebuffing them, it allows them passage but damages them).
Granted, this theory probably isn't why the myth started, but it's a seemingly good "scientific" explanation.
“It is a better world. A place where we are responsible for our actions, where we can be kind to one another because we want to and because it is the right thing to do instead of being frightened into behaving by the threat of divine punishment.” ― Oramis, Eldest by Christopher Paolini.
And then is this effect happen if a player causes a flowing water like a druid using a spell to cause a wave to hit them?
I'd argue no on a water spell dealing extra damage to them. I think if that was the intention it would've said so in the stat block. I think it's just a mechanics solution for a flavor thing, like how the Headless Horseman never went across the bridge or Dracula having to sleep on top of dirt from his native land.
If your players are fleeing from a vampire and make it across a river or into a house, the vampire is likely to stop chasing them temporarily, cursing the supernatural boundaries that prevent him from following, causing him to come up with a plan to send minions after the party in his stead (when game mechanics-wise he could actually just turn into a bat/mist and fly over the river with no actual issues, since he's not actually ending his turn in the water).
“It is a better world. A place where we are responsible for our actions, where we can be kind to one another because we want to and because it is the right thing to do instead of being frightened into behaving by the threat of divine punishment.” ― Oramis, Eldest by Christopher Paolini.
It's probably a reference to old myths and whatnot. Its a popular enough belief/trope to have a TV Tropes page on it, at least.
Rules wise, Vampires take 20 points of acid damage if they end their turn in running water, but if they start their turn in running water they can't regenerate that turn either.
Good find, and good question, and very good answers. I like this thread!
I dug up a link, with pretty much, the same explanation as sloporion, so as reference I'll put that here [link]. If you could throw this poem (below) into your game, it would perhaps make more sense to your players giving them a riddle to work out and some depth to the lore.
I also think that an ideal way to deal with players who will argue what running water is, would be, to set out what it is before you come across such an encounter. Or to place it somewhere in an encounter (Thinking ruins of Berez* as a prime example)
*This is an extremely hard encounter.
However the more I think about it, it makes a lot of sense why there are so many undead on the East side of Barovia, and on the West side there are the wolves, the blights, the deva. I actually don't even know IF there is any undead on the west side of Luna River.
"Now If you doubt this tale is so, I met that spook just a year ago. Now I didn't stop for a second look, But I made for the bridge that spans the brook. Cause once you cross the bridge my friends The ghost is through, his power ends."
"Now If you doubt this tale is so, I met that spook just a year ago. Now I didn't stop for a second look, But I made for the bridge that spans the brook. Cause once you cross the bridge my friends The ghost is through, his power ends."
Hey, DMing a curse of strahd group for a local store and it's my first time being a DM and also using the 5e rules. So my question is, why are vampires weak able to take all sorts of dage from running water? Is it because they are an abomination to the natural order or because..magic? And then is this effect happen if a player causes a flowing water like a druid using a spell to cause a wave to hit them?
Please like I said new to d&d and to being a DM thanks.
I am running CoS as well.
I wondered about this and how easy it could be to do something about it. But you have to remember the characters probably don't know about this weakness. While the vampires do. So they will do everything they can to not to put themselves into that positon.
That all being said. If the players come up with some grand scheme to get Strahd baptized. GO WITH IT! Let them have fun.
I just want to know 1. Why are vampires effected by running water like lore wise and 2. Does it have to be a natural flowing water or can a player conjure a flood in castle raven loft and have the effect or even change the flow of one of the rivers to assult a vampire.
Vampires are probably effected by running water because the original vampire lore from our world gives them that weakness. Modern vampires in media aren't that accurate to what they used to be (I'm looking at you Captain Sparkles).
Hell yeah I am going to Polymorph the boss into a Rabbit. I have always wanted a being a pure evil stuffed into a ball of fluff.
Thanks for the feedback everyone.
There are a couple different theories on this (as well as one of my own at the end):
1) Water vs earth (in an elemental standpoint):
When we bury the dead in the ground, there is a symbolism of you going back into the earth. Because they rise from the dead, Zombies, Vampires, etc... are all considered born from the earth (or reborn if you will). That's why in most genres you get the typical hand rising from the grave; it's symbolic of being born from the earth.
Meanwhile, water is considered life; running water even more so. Everything needs water to live. Wilderness survival experts (or those who watch shows on Discovery channel) know that pooled (or stagnant) water isn't good to drink without treatment, while running water is safe for drinking.
2) Vampires are considered not of this earth/reality:
This truth especially holds up when you think of their other weaknesses. Naturally occurring things such as sunlight and wood weaken/destroy them, so water just makes sense in that regard. The most natural parts of this reality are basically all trying to kill them (sun, plants, water).
3) My idea - Running water (rivers) are a natural border/threshold:
Regional land borders have almost always been separated by water; whether it be rivers, lakes, or sea. Much like the idea that they can't enter a home unless invited in, it's possible that this same sort of border affects them, albeit to a lesser degree (instead of completely rebuffing them, it allows them passage but damages them).
Granted, this theory probably isn't why the myth started, but it's a seemingly good "scientific" explanation.
Click Here to Download my Lancer Class w/ Dragoon and Legionnaire Archetypes via DM's Guild - Pay What You Want
Click Here to Download the Mind Flayer: Thoon Hulk converted from 4e via DM's Guild
“It is a better world. A place where we are responsible for our actions, where we can be kind to one another because we want to and because it is the right thing to do instead of being frightened into behaving by the threat of divine punishment.” ― Oramis, Eldest by Christopher Paolini.
I like it.
I'd argue no on a water spell dealing extra damage to them. I think if that was the intention it would've said so in the stat block. I think it's just a mechanics solution for a flavor thing, like how the Headless Horseman never went across the bridge or Dracula having to sleep on top of dirt from his native land.
If your players are fleeing from a vampire and make it across a river or into a house, the vampire is likely to stop chasing them temporarily, cursing the supernatural boundaries that prevent him from following, causing him to come up with a plan to send minions after the party in his stead (when game mechanics-wise he could actually just turn into a bat/mist and fly over the river with no actual issues, since he's not actually ending his turn in the water).
Click Here to Download my Lancer Class w/ Dragoon and Legionnaire Archetypes via DM's Guild - Pay What You Want
Click Here to Download the Mind Flayer: Thoon Hulk converted from 4e via DM's Guild
“It is a better world. A place where we are responsible for our actions, where we can be kind to one another because we want to and because it is the right thing to do instead of being frightened into behaving by the threat of divine punishment.” ― Oramis, Eldest by Christopher Paolini.
It's probably a reference to old myths and whatnot. Its a popular enough belief/trope to have a TV Tropes page on it, at least.
Rules wise, Vampires take 20 points of acid damage if they end their turn in running water, but if they start their turn in running water they can't regenerate that turn either.
Good find, and good question, and very good answers. I like this thread!
I dug up a link, with pretty much, the same explanation as sloporion, so as reference I'll put that here [link]. If you could throw this poem (below) into your game, it would perhaps make more sense to your players giving them a riddle to work out and some depth to the lore.
I also think that an ideal way to deal with players who will argue what running water is, would be, to set out what it is before you come across such an encounter. Or to place it somewhere in an encounter (Thinking ruins of Berez* as a prime example)
*This is an extremely hard encounter.
However the more I think about it, it makes a lot of sense why there are so many undead on the East side of Barovia, and on the West side there are the wolves, the blights, the deva. I actually don't even know IF there is any undead on the west side of Luna River.
"Now If you doubt this tale is so,
I met that spook just a year ago.
Now I didn't stop for a second look,
But I made for the bridge that spans the brook.
Cause once you cross the bridge my friends
The ghost is through, his power ends."