Hi all, simple enough question. Can a friendly PC chose to auto-fail a save which is being caused by a friend? This comes from myself playing a Druid who has access to Grasping Vine. If I used this spell on another player at the table, in an attempt to help move/pull them away from danger, would they still be forced to make the dex save? Or if I informed them it was coming, could they chose not to make the save? In essence, not resist the vine.
Simple question, but I’m unsure. The party is starting to get into situations where this spell, if they can ignore the save, could become incredibly helpful.
Most spells that allow it will say something along the lines of a "A creature can choose to fail the save."
Since there are spells that specify that you can choose to fail and other spells that don't, you can't RAW choose to fail the save on Grasping Vine. It would say so if you could.
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I think I'd allow a player to automatically fail almost any saving throw which made sense. So, I don't think you could choose to fail a constitution save for the effects of poisoning.
However, this would depend on the character knowing the effect was coming and, possibly, having time to prepare themselves. If something shot out of the ground to grab you, or flames shot towards you, it would be fairly instinctive to try to avoid them. Depending on the circumstances, it may take an ability check to see if you managed to stop yourself from reacting on instinct, or possibly just roll the save at disadvantage because you are not trying to avoid the effect.
I think most of them time, as long as a good enough warning was shouted, I'd just allow the PC to choose to fail.
Traditionally I allow PCs to choose to fail a save even if it doesn't say they "can choose."
Especially a DEX save -- CON you might not have the ability to do with sheer intellect or willpower... you can't "choose" to catch a cold from someone, and I say this as someone who in junior high definitely attempted to catch them from my friend or my sister so I could stay home from school for a few days -- but DEX is you "dodging out of the way". That's literally what a DEX save is. Fireball goes off, if you make your save, you dove side or behind a pillar or something and missed the brunt of the blast. If you choose NOT to make a save, it means you decided to stand there and take it on purpose. For fireball, no one would (probably), but for the example in the OP... it seems to me that if the PC wanted to be captured they would be.
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Generally spells specify in their text if they apply only to creatures of your choice or to friendly or non-friendly creatures. If they don't specify, and you don't have Spell Sculpting, it affects everyone in the area of effect.
I think this would be a silly thing not to allow, regardless of the rules as written. The notion that a character is unable to choose NOT to actively try to counter the grasping vine is rather silly.
I think this would be a silly thing not to allow, regardless of the rules as written. The notion that a character is unable to choose NOT to actively try to counter the grasping vine is rather silly.
To be fair, the idea of saving throws is that they’re reflexive. They’re not things you consciously try to do, so they’re not things you can choose not to do either.
I didn’t read closely enough. You’re asking if they can choose to *fail* the save. In most cases, that just makes sense, although in some cases spells do specify that.
I would just apply rule of cool. Are they failing the save to make some creative use of the spell? Then I’d allow it. Especially with the idea that the PCs are communicating their plan somehow. Then even though it might be a reflex to try to dodge the vines, if you know it’s coming you could suppress your reflex.
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Hi all, simple enough question. Can a friendly PC chose to auto-fail a save which is being caused by a friend? This comes from myself playing a Druid who has access to Grasping Vine. If I used this spell on another player at the table, in an attempt to help move/pull them away from danger, would they still be forced to make the dex save? Or if I informed them it was coming, could they chose not to make the save? In essence, not resist the vine.
Simple question, but I’m unsure. The party is starting to get into situations where this spell, if they can ignore the save, could become incredibly helpful.
Thanks I’m advance!
RAW no, but it's a common houserule and Jeremy said he would allow it: https://twitter.com/JeremyECrawford/status/708009718757720064
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The rise and the fall, I've lived through it all!
Most spells that allow it will say something along the lines of a "A creature can choose to fail the save."
Since there are spells that specify that you can choose to fail and other spells that don't, you can't RAW choose to fail the save on Grasping Vine. It would say so if you could.
"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
-Ilyara Thundertale
I think I'd allow a player to automatically fail almost any saving throw which made sense. So, I don't think you could choose to fail a constitution save for the effects of poisoning.
However, this would depend on the character knowing the effect was coming and, possibly, having time to prepare themselves. If something shot out of the ground to grab you, or flames shot towards you, it would be fairly instinctive to try to avoid them. Depending on the circumstances, it may take an ability check to see if you managed to stop yourself from reacting on instinct, or possibly just roll the save at disadvantage because you are not trying to avoid the effect.
I think most of them time, as long as a good enough warning was shouted, I'd just allow the PC to choose to fail.
Traditionally I allow PCs to choose to fail a save even if it doesn't say they "can choose."
Especially a DEX save -- CON you might not have the ability to do with sheer intellect or willpower... you can't "choose" to catch a cold from someone, and I say this as someone who in junior high definitely attempted to catch them from my friend or my sister so I could stay home from school for a few days -- but DEX is you "dodging out of the way". That's literally what a DEX save is. Fireball goes off, if you make your save, you dove side or behind a pillar or something and missed the brunt of the blast. If you choose NOT to make a save, it means you decided to stand there and take it on purpose. For fireball, no one would (probably), but for the example in the OP... it seems to me that if the PC wanted to be captured they would be.
WOTC lies. We know that WOTC lies. WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. We know that WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. And still they lie.
Because of the above (a paraphrase from Orwell) I no longer post to the forums -- PM me if you need help or anything.
I would let my players do it even if the rules say you can't.
"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
-Ilyara Thundertale
Generally spells specify in their text if they apply only to creatures of your choice or to friendly or non-friendly creatures. If they don't specify, and you don't have Spell Sculpting, it affects everyone in the area of effect.
I think this would be a silly thing not to allow, regardless of the rules as written. The notion that a character is unable to choose NOT to actively try to counter the grasping vine is rather silly.
To be fair, the idea of saving throws is that they’re reflexive. They’re not things you consciously try to do, so they’re not things you can choose not to do either.
I didn’t read closely enough. You’re asking if they can choose to *fail* the save. In most cases, that just makes sense, although in some cases spells do specify that.
I would just apply rule of cool. Are they failing the save to make some creative use of the spell? Then I’d allow it. Especially with the idea that the PCs are communicating their plan somehow. Then even though it might be a reflex to try to dodge the vines, if you know it’s coming you could suppress your reflex.