My party and I are currently in a magically sealed / warded room with a "Ravenous Void" active in the center. We cannot move out of the area of effect, and I was curious if a sphere / dome shaped wall of force would disrupt the gravitational effects and damage within the sphere? I'm trying to make a safe zone while the spell burns itself out. Would this work?
Ravenous Void just says "any space within 100 feet" is affected which strongly suggests it doesn't care one way or another if there's a wall in the way or not. Also - a Wall of Force can only make a 10 ft. radius sphere/hemisphere - whereas the void itself is a 20 ft. radius sphere. So you couldn't entirely contain it anyway.
That said - a Wall of Force made into a flat wall could stop you and your party from being pulled into the 20 ft radius void - and save you from taking bundles of damage. I wouldn't say it would stop the pulling effect though - so you'd still face-plant into the Wall of Force. Still likely safer either way.
The DM has the crushing damage and radius ramping up each round for the Ravenous Void (It's core per say). I was hoping that I could put the party inside a wall of force to prevent the crushing damage somehow, but like you said, "any space within 100 feet." I could cast resilient sphere on myself, but I'm trying to save a party member as well.
there may be an arguement made at what happens if the wall of force is cast as a sphere around the center of the ravenous voids sphere. Though the in game description talks about gravity in the way the spell works, the spell still follows spellcasting limitations.
A CLEAR PATH TO THE TARGET To target something, you must have a clear path to it, so it can't be behind total cover. If you place an area of effect at a point that you can't see and an obstruction, such as a wall, is between you and that point, the point of origin comes into being on the near side of that obstruction.
AREAS OF EFFECT Spells such as burning hands and cone ofcold cover an area, allowing them to affect multiple creatures at once. A spell's description specifies its area of effect, which typically has one of five different shapes: cone, cube, cylinder, line, or sphere. Every area of effect has a point of origin, a location from which the spell's energy erupts. The rules for each shape specify how you position its point of origin. Typically, a point of origin is a point in space, but some spells have an area whose origin is a creature or an object. A spell's effect expands in straight lines from the point of origin. If no unblocked straight line extends from the point of origin to a location within the area of effect, that location isn't included in the spell's area. To block one of these imaginary lines, an obstruction must provide total cover, as explained in chapter 9.
SPHERE You select a sphere's point of origin, and the sphere extends outward from that point. The sphere's size is expressed as a radius in feet that extends from the point. A sphere's point of origin is included in the sphere's area of effect.
by my reading, the 9th level spell can be contained by wall of force fir the duration of the entire spell so long as concentration is held. It would even be incredibly easy to pinpoint the spells point of origin as EVERYTHING will be flying toward it from all directions. Ravenous void is a 9th level spell, but nothing in its description gives it the ability to bypass total cover like Sacred Flame or Blade of Disaster.
This is already a 9th level spell without getting ramped up by expanding the effect (it is bad enough you are trapped with it). I hope your party is higher than level 9 if you run the risk of taking 50d10 damage...
A wall of force should block it though (nothing can physically cross the barrier, that probably includes pseudo black holes).
I really appreciate everyone getting back to me and giving me their input! The DM said he figured that the gravitational effects would pass through the Wall (sphere) of force because it's not a "physical" thing from his perspective. But followed that up by saying if I could prove otherwise he would be fine reconsidering hah. His main argument was that the Resilient sphere spell indicates that nothing, not energy, magical or physical effects can pass through it, while those descriptions are lacking from Wall of Force. I could use resilient sphere on myself and ride out the spell... but I won't do that...I want to save my party lol.
I really appreciate everyone getting back to me and giving me their input! The DM said he figured that the gravitational effects would pass through the Wall (sphere) of force because it's not a "physical" thing from his perspective.
I have actually been thinking the same as your DM as far as gravity goes. But just the pull, not the damage. The wall should protect you from the damaging bit.
If this were in my campaign i would consider it differently. Fireball does state it travels around corners, which makes sense for spells like cone of cold or a dragons breath for example to be blocked by an obstruction. Although for an effect like gravity i would consider it not being effected by a wall of force.
Looking at it a different way, if you consider Resilient Sphere, the spell is similar to wall of force except for it is a complete sphere this spell states: "Nothing--not physical objects, energy, or other spell effects--can pass through the barrier, in or out" this spell even negates fall damage ie gravity effects. While Wall of Force specifically states "Nothing can physically pass through the wall" I would agree that the wall would provide a barrier that the characters would pancake against, but from my perspective it shouldn't stop the effects.
There are lots of debates about rules as written, although there is a large section of dnd which is up for interpretation and DM discretion.
I think the problem is that the physics of the world are not well defined. If it was a "gravitational force" on Earth, a wall would not stop it. It also wouldn't stop dead at 100 ft, it would fall in strength as you got further away. However, it's not on Earth, so we cannot state categorically that it would pass through even a normal wall, let alone a magical one. It all depends on how physics works on the world in question.
RAW, I think it counts as a spell effect which requires a clear line to the point of origin, so a wall of force placed between you and it would block the effect. A spherical wall of force would block all effects, even if you were within the central sphere. Nothing in the spell's description or rules changes that, as far as I am aware.
I am by no means an expert on dnd rules, i understand Lyxens point. I wanted to jump in as this was something i was curious about and had completely forgotten about spell's effect expanding in straight lines from the point of origin.
I tend to get ahead of myself based on how i feel a spell should work and how its intended to, which to a degree is fine based on dm discretion in a specific campaign. Rules are ment to be superseded by wording of specific spells (which is where i always get caught up as a dm). It doesnt help that i have a wizard in my campaign that likes to dig into spell wordings too much and break things haha.
Regardless i hope this helped Jabberwock9001, especially the effort put in by lyxen.
I think the problem is that the physics of the world are not well defined. If it was a "gravitational force" on Earth, a wall would not stop it. It also wouldn't stop dead at 100 ft, it would fall in strength as you got further away. However, it's not on Earth, so we cannot state categorically that it would pass through even a normal wall, let alone a magical one. It all depends on how physics works on the world in question.
RAW, I think it counts as a spell effect which requires a clear line to the point of origin, so a wall of force placed between you and it would block the effect. A spherical wall of force would block all effects, even if you were within the central sphere. Nothing in the spell's description or rules changes that, as far as I am aware.
It's always the problem when discussing fantasy world physics, because there is no basis for agreement: not only can the physics be really different (once more, read spelljammer to understand how gravity can be totally different from our real world one) but also most people don't really understand real world physics properly. Saying that a wall of force blocks everything "physical" si not even defined, because a photon is physical. It has energy and can push a solar sail. And what about a Higgs boson ?
And in addition to all these cases, we have the problem of magic, and its interference with physics. Some people think that it's a different type of physics, others mesh it with real world physics (although honestly this makes no sense if you understand some basic principles of real world physics), etc.
To avoid all these cases, and actually leave every DM to make the decision that he wants for his own world, the rules are clear, wall of Force is transparent but blocks line of effect, provides cover and therefore blocks spell effects. It's simple, works for everybody and does not intrude on what the physics of the world might be like, as it's only magic interfering with other magic.
Agreed. I have a player who will try and incorporate real world physics whenever its convenient for what he's trying to do and I've defaulted to the phrase "You can shoot fireballs out of your hands, physics don't matter"
Because there are SO MANY spells that when applied with physics, shouldn't work in the slightest so whenever "realistic" is applied to MAGIC my answer is usually "Its magic..."
I appreciate all the input and I think I have a better understanding of the spell mechanics now. I'm hoping i can use this to survive our current encounter and better manage future ones!
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Hello everyone,
My party and I are currently in a magically sealed / warded room with a "Ravenous Void" active in the center. We cannot move out of the area of effect, and I was curious if a sphere / dome shaped wall of force would disrupt the gravitational effects and damage within the sphere? I'm trying to make a safe zone while the spell burns itself out. Would this work?
Thanks!
Ravenous Void just says "any space within 100 feet" is affected which strongly suggests it doesn't care one way or another if there's a wall in the way or not. Also - a Wall of Force can only make a 10 ft. radius sphere/hemisphere - whereas the void itself is a 20 ft. radius sphere. So you couldn't entirely contain it anyway.
That said - a Wall of Force made into a flat wall could stop you and your party from being pulled into the 20 ft radius void - and save you from taking bundles of damage. I wouldn't say it would stop the pulling effect though - so you'd still face-plant into the Wall of Force. Still likely safer either way.
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Thanks for replying Emmber,
The DM has the crushing damage and radius ramping up each round for the Ravenous Void (It's core per say). I was hoping that I could put the party inside a wall of force to prevent the crushing damage somehow, but like you said, "any space within 100 feet." I could cast resilient sphere on myself, but I'm trying to save a party member as well.
Thanks for clarification!
there may be an arguement made at what happens if the wall of force is cast as a sphere around the center of the ravenous voids sphere. Though the in game description talks about gravity in the way the spell works, the spell still follows spellcasting limitations.
A CLEAR PATH TO THE TARGET
To target something, you must have a clear path to it, so it can't be behind total cover.
If you place an area of effect at a point that you can't see and an obstruction, such as a wall, is between you and that point, the point of origin comes into being on the near side of that obstruction.
AREAS OF EFFECT
Spells such as burning hands and cone ofcold cover an area, allowing them to affect multiple creatures at once.
A spell's description specifies its area of effect, which typically has one of five different shapes: cone, cube, cylinder, line, or sphere. Every area of effect has a point of origin, a location from which the spell's energy erupts. The rules for each shape specify how you position its point of origin. Typically, a point of origin is a point in space, but some spells have an area whose origin is a creature or an object.
A spell's effect expands in straight lines from the point of origin. If no unblocked straight line extends from the point of origin to a location within the area of effect, that location isn't included in the spell's area. To block one of these imaginary lines, an obstruction must provide total cover, as explained in chapter 9.
SPHERE
You select a sphere's point of origin, and the sphere extends outward from that point. The sphere's size is expressed as a radius in feet that extends from the point.
A sphere's point of origin is included in the sphere's area of effect.
by my reading, the 9th level spell can be contained by wall of force fir the duration of the entire spell so long as concentration is held. It would even be incredibly easy to pinpoint the spells point of origin as EVERYTHING will be flying toward it from all directions. Ravenous void is a 9th level spell, but nothing in its description gives it the ability to bypass total cover like Sacred Flame or Blade of Disaster.
This is already a 9th level spell without getting ramped up by expanding the effect (it is bad enough you are trapped with it). I hope your party is higher than level 9 if you run the risk of taking 50d10 damage...
A wall of force should block it though (nothing can physically cross the barrier, that probably includes pseudo black holes).
I really appreciate everyone getting back to me and giving me their input! The DM said he figured that the gravitational effects would pass through the Wall (sphere) of force because it's not a "physical" thing from his perspective. But followed that up by saying if I could prove otherwise he would be fine reconsidering hah. His main argument was that the Resilient sphere spell indicates that nothing, not energy, magical or physical effects can pass through it, while those descriptions are lacking from Wall of Force. I could use resilient sphere on myself and ride out the spell... but I won't do that...I want to save my party lol.
Thanks!
I have actually been thinking the same as your DM as far as gravity goes. But just the pull, not the damage. The wall should protect you from the damaging bit.
If this were in my campaign i would consider it differently. Fireball does state it travels around corners, which makes sense for spells like cone of cold or a dragons breath for example to be blocked by an obstruction. Although for an effect like gravity i would consider it not being effected by a wall of force.
Looking at it a different way, if you consider Resilient Sphere, the spell is similar to wall of force except for it is a complete sphere this spell states: "Nothing--not physical objects, energy, or other spell effects--can pass through the barrier, in or out" this spell even negates fall damage ie gravity effects. While Wall of Force specifically states "Nothing can physically pass through the wall" I would agree that the wall would provide a barrier that the characters would pancake against, but from my perspective it shouldn't stop the effects.
There are lots of debates about rules as written, although there is a large section of dnd which is up for interpretation and DM discretion.
I think the problem is that the physics of the world are not well defined. If it was a "gravitational force" on Earth, a wall would not stop it. It also wouldn't stop dead at 100 ft, it would fall in strength as you got further away. However, it's not on Earth, so we cannot state categorically that it would pass through even a normal wall, let alone a magical one. It all depends on how physics works on the world in question.
RAW, I think it counts as a spell effect which requires a clear line to the point of origin, so a wall of force placed between you and it would block the effect. A spherical wall of force would block all effects, even if you were within the central sphere. Nothing in the spell's description or rules changes that, as far as I am aware.
I am by no means an expert on dnd rules, i understand Lyxens point. I wanted to jump in as this was something i was curious about and had completely forgotten about spell's effect expanding in straight lines from the point of origin.
I tend to get ahead of myself based on how i feel a spell should work and how its intended to, which to a degree is fine based on dm discretion in a specific campaign. Rules are ment to be superseded by wording of specific spells (which is where i always get caught up as a dm). It doesnt help that i have a wizard in my campaign that likes to dig into spell wordings too much and break things haha.
Regardless i hope this helped Jabberwock9001, especially the effort put in by lyxen.
Agreed. I have a player who will try and incorporate real world physics whenever its convenient for what he's trying to do and I've defaulted to the phrase "You can shoot fireballs out of your hands, physics don't matter"
Because there are SO MANY spells that when applied with physics, shouldn't work in the slightest so whenever "realistic" is applied to MAGIC my answer is usually "Its magic..."
Thanks everyone!
I appreciate all the input and I think I have a better understanding of the spell mechanics now. I'm hoping i can use this to survive our current encounter and better manage future ones!