I have this strange idea about warlock and patron basically merging into one. Do you think thing such as this could happen? And if it does would it change character class or race, maybe it could happen only at higher level?
I think it’s safe to say that, depending on the patron at least, that would be an end-of-campaign thing and likely the end of the character. I don’t imagine you’d have much free will after merging with an Archdevil or an Old One.
Yeah, I don't see merging so much as the patron "possessing" its warlock eventually discarding it. In a very rare instance where a Warlock has like Epic Boons beyond level 20, I suppose a Warlock could contend to supplant the Patron. They're required to say, "The Circle is Complete, When I left you I was a but a learner, now I am the master" or it doesn't work. In The Forgotten Realms, I believe the so-called "Dead Three" gods (Bane, Bhaal and Myrkul) adventurers who became gods, Warlock could fit into story like that. Or maybe it was an adventurer who took out Bhaal, or Bane and took their place. I think we're talking about the 90s.
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Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
Are you the DM or a PC? Because I'm not sure if that kind of plan would go over well on the table. It is very main characteresque, and just really edgy in general.
It really depends how much story you are getting from the patron - in many aspects the concept of the patron is flavourful rather than mechanical so you wouldn’t necessarily need to change the mechanics of the warlock they could keep levelling up in the same way. However if you did want to represent this change mechanically to logical class change would be to sorcerer as the magic has changed from without to within.
I also disagree that it has to be a super level end of game event. You could make it ambiguous so the player never knows wether the warlock absorbed the patron or the patron absorbed the warlock which could be fun thing to rp. Obviously this only works for pact of the fiend/genie warlocks - if they are powered by an old one then that’s definitely an end of game/character story.
I have run a warlock like this, I was inspired by terry pratchet small gods book so I created a warlock who’s patron only existed because I believed in him. He therefore gave me his powers because he was desperate not to be forgotten by the one being that still believed
A moment came in the story where I died, in order to resurrect me and ensure he would not be forgotten my patron possessed me to keep me alive and allow the party to bring my soul back, but, he then lacked the power to leave me as I returned so we merged into one being.
We then went on a series of adventures where the party worked to help spilt us apart again because being merged was killing me, and if I died my patron would as well and we would be dead forever.
Theoretically, if you merged with the patron and became one being, would that theoretically story wise make you more akin to a sorcerer, sine that power is no longer coming from an external source but from within?
Not saying this is how it'd have to be played mechanically or story wise, just a thought I had when thinking about the subject.
Theoretically, if you merged with the patron and became one being, would that theoretically story wise make you more akin to a sorcerer, sine that power is no longer coming from an external source but from within?
Not saying this is how it'd have to be played mechanically or story wise, just a thought I had when thinking about the subject.
I played it as there where 2 beings inhabiting the same body, the patron and the warlock, we came up with a load of mechanics to represent the issues the character was having, but ultimately decided to keep it as a patron/warlock relationship (I did consider multiclassing into a sorceror)
My feeling is that if on merging with your patron you become the source of your own power, then a class change to sorcerer might be justifiable. The only trouble is, there are FAR MORE patrons out there and sorcerer bloodlines...
Im not saying that you have to change class, but if a warlock at my table merged with their patron and wanted to change to sorcerer then I would absolutely allow it. :)
I had an idea for a Celestial Warlock where the patron was an angel/celestial that was extremely wounded and on the run from some planar-level baddies and looking for a place to hide out. They eventually come across some teen runaway and offer them a deal: if they can take shelter within the runaway's soul while they recover, they'll offer the runaway the extent of their power to be at their disposal.
I thought it would be a fun concept because usually a Warlock getting the full power of their patron would be OP af, but given how weakened the patron is, it would be an interesting patron/Warlock relationship where they're both growing and working together rather than it being more one-sided.
Also if the DM wants to use the backstory, you can include some fun "being pursued by planar forces" stuff.
I kinda got the idea for this character from The Bone Clocks, if anyone's read that book.
Of course you could switch this around, have a patron who gives his followers their powers, makes them adore and love him, draws them to himself, and then consumes them merging them with him. Maybe he sits permanently in a large golden throne unable to leave, maybe he holds back a tide of evil, the power of the warlock is needed to sustain him. In fact, I really think that might be a story I meld into a DnD campaign sometime :).
I have this strange idea about warlock and patron basically merging into one. Do you think thing such as this could happen? And if it does would it change character class or race, maybe it could happen only at higher level?
this happened to my own warlock after they got improsioned by magic which given their patron is themselfs on another plane did not end well
That's pretty much the story of Kyuss in Eberron - a mortal warlock who soul merged with the overlord Katashka (Eberron equivalent of Orkus).
I think it’s safe to say that, depending on the patron at least, that would be an end-of-campaign thing and likely the end of the character. I don’t imagine you’d have much free will after merging with an Archdevil or an Old One.
Wizard (Gandalf) of the Tolkien Club
Yeah, I don't see merging so much as the patron "possessing" its warlock eventually discarding it. In a very rare instance where a Warlock has like Epic Boons beyond level 20, I suppose a Warlock could contend to supplant the Patron. They're required to say, "The Circle is Complete, When I left you I was a but a learner, now I am the master" or it doesn't work. In The Forgotten Realms, I believe the so-called "Dead Three" gods (Bane, Bhaal and Myrkul) adventurers who became gods, Warlock could fit into story like that. Or maybe it was an adventurer who took out Bhaal, or Bane and took their place. I think we're talking about the 90s.
Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
Are you the DM or a PC? Because I'm not sure if that kind of plan would go over well on the table. It is very main characteresque, and just really edgy in general.
My only good homebrews: Races, Subclasses.
An aspiring DM and Homebrewer. Ask me if you need anything.
It really depends how much story you are getting from the patron - in many aspects the concept of the patron is flavourful rather than mechanical so you wouldn’t necessarily need to change the mechanics of the warlock they could keep levelling up in the same way. However if you did want to represent this change mechanically to logical class change would be to sorcerer as the magic has changed from without to within.
I also disagree that it has to be a super level end of game event. You could make it ambiguous so the player never knows wether the warlock absorbed the patron or the patron absorbed the warlock which could be fun thing to rp. Obviously this only works for pact of the fiend/genie warlocks - if they are powered by an old one then that’s definitely an end of game/character story.
I have run a warlock like this, I was inspired by terry pratchet small gods book so I created a warlock who’s patron only existed because I believed in him. He therefore gave me his powers because he was desperate not to be forgotten by the one being that still believed
A moment came in the story where I died, in order to resurrect me and ensure he would not be forgotten my patron possessed me to keep me alive and allow the party to bring my soul back, but, he then lacked the power to leave me as I returned so we merged into one being.
We then went on a series of adventures where the party worked to help spilt us apart again because being merged was killing me, and if I died my patron would as well and we would be dead forever.
Theoretically, if you merged with the patron and became one being, would that theoretically story wise make you more akin to a sorcerer, sine that power is no longer coming from an external source but from within?
Not saying this is how it'd have to be played mechanically or story wise, just a thought I had when thinking about the subject.
I played it as there where 2 beings inhabiting the same body, the patron and the warlock, we came up with a load of mechanics to represent the issues the character was having, but ultimately decided to keep it as a patron/warlock relationship (I did consider multiclassing into a sorceror)
My feeling is that if on merging with your patron you become the source of your own power, then a class change to sorcerer might be justifiable. The only trouble is, there are FAR MORE patrons out there and sorcerer bloodlines...
Im not saying that you have to change class, but if a warlock at my table merged with their patron and wanted to change to sorcerer then I would absolutely allow it. :)
I had an idea for a Celestial Warlock where the patron was an angel/celestial that was extremely wounded and on the run from some planar-level baddies and looking for a place to hide out. They eventually come across some teen runaway and offer them a deal: if they can take shelter within the runaway's soul while they recover, they'll offer the runaway the extent of their power to be at their disposal.
I thought it would be a fun concept because usually a Warlock getting the full power of their patron would be OP af, but given how weakened the patron is, it would be an interesting patron/Warlock relationship where they're both growing and working together rather than it being more one-sided.
Also if the DM wants to use the backstory, you can include some fun "being pursued by planar forces" stuff.
I kinda got the idea for this character from The Bone Clocks, if anyone's read that book.
...and upon merging...she heard the screams of the thousand souls that had become one with the master before her.....
Of course you could switch this around, have a patron who gives his followers their powers, makes them adore and love him, draws them to himself, and then consumes them merging them with him. Maybe he sits permanently in a large golden throne unable to leave, maybe he holds back a tide of evil, the power of the warlock is needed to sustain him. In fact, I really think that might be a story I meld into a DnD campaign sometime :).