My players want to play in the Planescape setting and I do love it and own many of the e2 books. They want to play politics and all about factions but I know they won't care to remember the 15 of them. Also, I feel like the faction war end will happen anyhow and it's like a movie I have seen? So I am thinking about doing what has yet (in my knowledge) has been done, and was only mentioned briefly in Dragon Magazine (issue 315). I want to play a POST war of the factions game.
Telling this story is a lot like GoT, in my opinion, where people talk about events that happened not too long ago and want to reclaim their stake they lost because of wars. Some know part of all the dark, some smart cutters know more. So how would you do it? any tips? any Planeswalkers guild tips*? Where would you start?
*They want to be part of the planeswalkers guild (and factionless).
My first reaction is that without the factions, Sigil is just a big city. It might as well be the Rock of Bral or Ravnica.
I've tried a post-Faction War Sigil. My idea was that most of the factions kept going, they just stopped calling themselves factions. The Bleakers aren't going to shut down their hospital, nor would the Lady want them to. The Hardheads aren't going to stop policing the streets, nor would the merchants want them to. The Takers certainly aren't going to give up their money and clout just because they almost destroyed the city. It's just an opportunity to prune and tailor. I whittled the number of "factions" down to nine to correspond to the alignments and eliminate some of the more esoteric distinctions.
The Takers (in whatever form) are always great at starting drama as are the Mercykillers. My overall theory of things was that the guy who was head of the Takers in Faction War had been flipped by the Archdevils while he was a prisoner in hell and they were using him as a Manchurian Candidate to increase their own standing in the city. Meanwhile the Godsmen were basically a front for Vecna, who hadn't ascended to godhood by the end of 2nd ed, but whose quest to do so aligned with their goals and who is one of the only beings in the multiverse with the magical knowhow to help them hide their efforts from the lady inside Sigil itself (see Harbinger House). So they, at least, were gone-zo.
Retooling Eternal Boundary is a good starting point in my opinion because it is such a table-setting kind of adventure; introducing different factions and the city services they provide. If there are no factions, someone still needs to keep the city running and a missing persons case is always a great way to give players a guided tour of a location.
This is something I am deeply diving into especially if the DMs Guild is ever opened up to Planescape. Although the Factions were a big part of Sigil, more fundamentally is that *belief* is important in the Outer Planes and Sigil, and that has not changed.
It seemed to me a logical progression that belief is still important, but Factions (aka organizations based on common beliefs) are banned, so it makes sense to focus on individual beliefs instead. So my Post-FW Sigil (I'm time jumping the hundred something years to keep it with FR), beliefs are far more nuanced and idiosyncratic and not squeezed into 15 buckets. In fact, the citizens of Sigil go out of their way to make sure their beliefs are not the same as others (don't want too many thinking the same, or the Lady might think you're forming a Faction!). So with this larger focus on personal expression of ideas and philosophies as well as blending of many planar cultures, my Sigil is more like a planar New Orleans than the original Dickens-era London that the original had definite vibes of. (Plus a planar creole makes A LOT more sense than the planar cant, which again, seemed tied to one particular real world vibe rather than being a blend of many influences.) Lots of artistic expression. Citizens in cafes having philosophical debates about obscure planar minutia. And, of course, the food is... unique, but amazing!
It still can be a dangerous place, and life can be hard as now the wealthy and the criminals (and those who are both) have filled the power vacuums. Plus, with adventurers passing through all the time, they realized that adventurers tend to have a lot of money and are more amiable if everyone isn't constantly trying to recruit them into a Faction, so why not cater to them? Although some citizens still sneer at welcoming Primes so much and how it could water down their culture, others are making a very nice living with inns, shops, and basically the Adventurer Tourism industry.
Lastly, I decided that a contingent of githyanki entered the city to help with maintaining order immediately after the Faction War (and I'm sure some long-term plan of Vlaakith), and then a large number of githzerai moved near them to keep an eye on the large githyanki presence. So there's now a GithTown in Sigil because, well, most everything is better with gith. :)
Yea that makes a lot of sense now. I dont want to go all gender on this but the city was made mostly by white males. So we get something that caters to this kind of fantasy. But I dont know how New Orleans works, and I do know how London works so I will have to research that.
Also, Dunno if the Lady will let this Githvasion happen.
And I just used New Orleans as an example because I'm familiar with it, and it is to it's core, a blend of multiple cultures, as well as very proud of it's artistic and... expressive (?) personality. Many modern cities I think could reflect a fascinating multicultural blend as well, of course. So those might be better cultural touchstones for some.
It's just the original Sigil, to me at least as a Midwestern American, unfortunately feels like if Charles Dickens wrote D&D, everyone spoke like Dick Van Dyke in Mary Poppins, and all buildings must have spikes. Now, I *looooove* the setting, but it seemed to me that they went with a far too narrow and specific feel for the city that is supposed to be this planar metropolis. Sigil, in my mind, should look and feel like a smash up of dozens or even hundreds of different cultures blurring together. So in my Post-FW Sigil, I just imagine that the Factions formerly had so much control that it constrained expression in the city to only what those groups wanted, but now they are free for far greater personal expression and the like.
Also, as you say, Sigil in the 21st century really needs a wider view than from those few white men. (The rest of the Outer Planes as well! Not surprising that Norse and Greek gods are featured heavily, then elven, dwarvish, & gnomish pantheons, then a bit of Celtic, then a sprinkle of things inspired by, but not actually from, various Asian mythologies, and then... not really anything else.)
This website https://www.planewalker.com/ has some information you may find useful. In the Downloads section it contains 3e/3.5e adaptations for the setting. I believe they are all things that take place after the Faction War.
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My players want to play in the Planescape setting and I do love it and own many of the e2 books. They want to play politics and all about factions but I know they won't care to remember the 15 of them. Also, I feel like the faction war end will happen anyhow and it's like a movie I have seen? So I am thinking about doing what has yet (in my knowledge) has been done, and was only mentioned briefly in Dragon Magazine (issue 315). I want to play a POST war of the factions game.
Telling this story is a lot like GoT, in my opinion, where people talk about events that happened not too long ago and want to reclaim their stake they lost because of wars. Some know part of all the dark, some smart cutters know more. So how would you do it? any tips? any Planeswalkers guild tips*? Where would you start?
*They want to be part of the planeswalkers guild (and factionless).
My first reaction is that without the factions, Sigil is just a big city. It might as well be the Rock of Bral or Ravnica.
I've tried a post-Faction War Sigil. My idea was that most of the factions kept going, they just stopped calling themselves factions. The Bleakers aren't going to shut down their hospital, nor would the Lady want them to. The Hardheads aren't going to stop policing the streets, nor would the merchants want them to. The Takers certainly aren't going to give up their money and clout just because they almost destroyed the city. It's just an opportunity to prune and tailor. I whittled the number of "factions" down to nine to correspond to the alignments and eliminate some of the more esoteric distinctions.
The Takers (in whatever form) are always great at starting drama as are the Mercykillers. My overall theory of things was that the guy who was head of the Takers in Faction War had been flipped by the Archdevils while he was a prisoner in hell and they were using him as a Manchurian Candidate to increase their own standing in the city. Meanwhile the Godsmen were basically a front for Vecna, who hadn't ascended to godhood by the end of 2nd ed, but whose quest to do so aligned with their goals and who is one of the only beings in the multiverse with the magical knowhow to help them hide their efforts from the lady inside Sigil itself (see Harbinger House). So they, at least, were gone-zo.
Retooling Eternal Boundary is a good starting point in my opinion because it is such a table-setting kind of adventure; introducing different factions and the city services they provide. If there are no factions, someone still needs to keep the city running and a missing persons case is always a great way to give players a guided tour of a location.
I wouldnt call Ravnica dead.
But I see what you did there and you had some great tips, thanks!
This is something I am deeply diving into especially if the DMs Guild is ever opened up to Planescape. Although the Factions were a big part of Sigil, more fundamentally is that *belief* is important in the Outer Planes and Sigil, and that has not changed.
It seemed to me a logical progression that belief is still important, but Factions (aka organizations based on common beliefs) are banned, so it makes sense to focus on individual beliefs instead. So my Post-FW Sigil (I'm time jumping the hundred something years to keep it with FR), beliefs are far more nuanced and idiosyncratic and not squeezed into 15 buckets. In fact, the citizens of Sigil go out of their way to make sure their beliefs are not the same as others (don't want too many thinking the same, or the Lady might think you're forming a Faction!). So with this larger focus on personal expression of ideas and philosophies as well as blending of many planar cultures, my Sigil is more like a planar New Orleans than the original Dickens-era London that the original had definite vibes of. (Plus a planar creole makes A LOT more sense than the planar cant, which again, seemed tied to one particular real world vibe rather than being a blend of many influences.) Lots of artistic expression. Citizens in cafes having philosophical debates about obscure planar minutia. And, of course, the food is... unique, but amazing!
It still can be a dangerous place, and life can be hard as now the wealthy and the criminals (and those who are both) have filled the power vacuums. Plus, with adventurers passing through all the time, they realized that adventurers tend to have a lot of money and are more amiable if everyone isn't constantly trying to recruit them into a Faction, so why not cater to them? Although some citizens still sneer at welcoming Primes so much and how it could water down their culture, others are making a very nice living with inns, shops, and basically the Adventurer Tourism industry.
Lastly, I decided that a contingent of githyanki entered the city to help with maintaining order immediately after the Faction War (and I'm sure some long-term plan of Vlaakith), and then a large number of githzerai moved near them to keep an eye on the large githyanki presence. So there's now a GithTown in Sigil because, well, most everything is better with gith. :)
Yea that makes a lot of sense now. I dont want to go all gender on this but the city was made mostly by white males. So we get something that caters to this kind of fantasy. But I dont know how New Orleans works, and I do know how London works so I will have to research that.
Also, Dunno if the Lady will let this Githvasion happen.
And I just used New Orleans as an example because I'm familiar with it, and it is to it's core, a blend of multiple cultures, as well as very proud of it's artistic and... expressive (?) personality. Many modern cities I think could reflect a fascinating multicultural blend as well, of course. So those might be better cultural touchstones for some.
It's just the original Sigil, to me at least as a Midwestern American, unfortunately feels like if Charles Dickens wrote D&D, everyone spoke like Dick Van Dyke in Mary Poppins, and all buildings must have spikes. Now, I *looooove* the setting, but it seemed to me that they went with a far too narrow and specific feel for the city that is supposed to be this planar metropolis. Sigil, in my mind, should look and feel like a smash up of dozens or even hundreds of different cultures blurring together. So in my Post-FW Sigil, I just imagine that the Factions formerly had so much control that it constrained expression in the city to only what those groups wanted, but now they are free for far greater personal expression and the like.
Also, as you say, Sigil in the 21st century really needs a wider view than from those few white men. (The rest of the Outer Planes as well! Not surprising that Norse and Greek gods are featured heavily, then elven, dwarvish, & gnomish pantheons, then a bit of Celtic, then a sprinkle of things inspired by, but not actually from, various Asian mythologies, and then... not really anything else.)
This website https://www.planewalker.com/ has some information you may find useful. In the Downloads section it contains 3e/3.5e adaptations for the setting. I believe they are all things that take place after the Faction War.