As I mentioned earlier, I include gender parity in my games. Women in the real world do face challenges getting certain jobs. You can look up General Vance if you want an example of the challenges women face. Most of my friends and I are trying to enter male-dominated fields. We can get all the sexism we want in reality, so I do not include it in my games. To some that may break immersion, but to me it is as important to my fantasy as the magic and the elves. I am using my imagination to imagine a world with a little less prejudice. Some people may feel the same way when it comes to racism. If people have to put up with unpleasant racism in real life, maybe they would also like to use their imaginations to create a world where racism is not as big a deal. People who see things my way are not wrong for eliminating something troubling because it exists in the real world. And people are also not wrong for trying to touch on real topics, if everyone playing is comfortable with that.
And I would be wary of tackling issues which are sensitive. I can think of watching stuff on television where a show written by men tries to tackle the issue of sexism. The episodes often still contain sexism. I am extremely white, so I avoid telling stories that I worry would be problematic to my non-white players. I know what it is like to sit there while someone unknowingly does something which makes me uncomfortable, so I try to avoid putting other people in that situation. I use my imagination on other stuff I know my players are into.
To sum up, I am not saying it is wrong to have fantasy racism. I would just make sure everyone is on board and comfortable. Neither of out ways of doing things are wrong, they are just better suited to different people.
As a DM I often add a racist element to my villains as it is a trait that all of my players can agree is bad. Sometimes I like a sort of anti hero, or villain that can be understood. However I have found when that isn't my goal that a good way to make a villain much more villainous and evil is to make them racist or give them some other irrational trait.
Alter the written words to suit your criteria. DM Chapter 8 includes examples of incorporating different lore. DMG Chapter 9 includes examples of changing mechanics.
We shouldn't really need to try to justify or invalidate ours or others' worlds.
First (only?) sensible post I saw in this thread. If people don't want racism in their game because they get enough of it in real life, then that's perfectly ok. And if people want it in their game, because it creates context then that's ok. I think the one thing we all agree on is consent for whatever is at hand - I would be leery of someone using it as a recruiting strategy, in either direction (see following).
My one concern about avoiding sensitive topics is that it polarizes and divides people. Rather than engaging in dialogue and learning to live with our differences, we turn a blind eye to them, which can be dehumanizing. which is ironic for a principle of inclusivity. I think one person we could all learn from is Daryl Davis; google him, he is an inspiring individual.
P.S. yes many people are intransigent in their views, and a duty to engage only goes so far. But imo the intransigence is born from or facilitated by a lack of dialogue, and I think our fantasy worlds are safe places to explore the consequences of racism and how to address it. And, as fantasy game, maybe that sometimes means simply beating the bleep out of the racists. It's your game.
It seems to me that it is rather odd to bring racism into a game.
Maybe it is just my jaded experience coming to DnD and gaming, but my gaming experience started when I was 8 years old. Racism back in the 80's wasn't as largely a talked about topic in the Tampa area where I grew up. I grew up in very mixed areas, so growing up it never occurred to anyone I was playing with that race was an issue. We had much bigger problems to consider, like finding other like minded people who would play DnD without calling us outcasts or nerds. None of us cared who you were, as long as you were willing to play. Our games were based off of lore we could find, and included some novels. But again there was no real racism with the exception that almost no one liked playing humans.
The fact that people in more recent years felt the need to bring it up in games, and to somehow make it a part of game play is pretty sick. It is like they needed victims and drama to give meaning to their lives. It wasn't until I was in my 30's that anyone even brought up racism in games around me, and most intelligent people I knew just ignored it, as that is just something we don't think about. Had people just let it go away, we wouldn't have this thread today. I would challenge people to go to the San Diego Comic Con back in 1997. It was fun, it was exciting, we didn't have celebrities taking it over, and activists didn't even exist in our world of Comic Con. It was simpler times. It amazed me that people felt the need to bring racism into an arena that was challenged enough just to have acceptance of the people playing it, Period.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I am not sure what my Spirit Animal is. But whatever that thing is, I am pretty sure it has rabies!
I would challenge people to go to the San Diego Comic Con back in 1997.
So you're the member of the necromantic cult reviving this thread who sees necromancy as an avenue to time travel? That's ... pretty cool world building, going to note that for my own games. But if people succeed in this challenge, those Artificers are in no way obligated to share their time travel technology with you. As such this time travel challenge is a text book illustration of the problems of winner take all capitalism. Whoever gets back to 1997 first can shape the world so that all competitors are either frustrated or even thwarted in their endeavors. The notion of a single Time Lord is too frightening a project and I strongly encourage you to dissolve this challenge.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
This is a contentious topic, I'm sure, but it's one that I feel is overlooked in 5e. Or perhaps that's merely an incorrect assumption on my part based on the rather strong liberal ideals that seem to permeate D&D live streams. But how do you handle racism in your games? I personally incorporate a bit of it where I feel it would make sense. A tiefling -- literal devil spawn -- should not be widely accepted in more rural and superstitious communities. The same would go for half-orcs in places that might suffer frequent orc raids. Common sense shouldn't be set aside in favor of inclusion, should it?
I'm sure this has been mentioned by others, but rural communities might not know what a tiefling is, and orcs, well depends on location and setting, as some settings Orcs are actually kind of rare and may only inhabit a single mountain range or coastal region half a continent away. (Toril/Forgotten Realms). If there is bias against a race, urban regions where one race has absolute dominance is where racism thrives.
example: I'm Jewish I look very typically Jewish, I live in the USA, and we still have people in this country who are biased against people of my ancestry. If I go to Cities in the "Bible belt" I will face discrimination for being Jewish looking, I will face discrimination for my other born traits as well. But if I go to West Virginia, where they usually can not identify me as a minority at all. They treat me as white. Mostly because they don't know what a Transgender Jewish woman would look like. BTW, I use to drive OTR, and experienced this first hand.
Rural people would be more likely to be untrusting of a common race that they interact with but have negative experiences with. Orcs and Tieflings are rare usually.
how to handle the problem of racism in a dnd campaign. and also a lot more issues than that in a realistic world
I hate the idea that, in order to be realistic, a world has to feature racism. We can accept dragons, spellcasters, magic swords and talking rats, werebear and angry slime, but racism is where we draw the line ? Really ?
If i usually don't put racism into my setting, it's not because I want to be "pc", it's because I think it makes for a better game, and more enjoyment. I also don't put homophobia, sexism, or sexual assault. For some reasons, I don't find these topics to be productive towards the idea of fun. Go figure.
These are subjects that may be sore for several people, and that may make your table uninvinting. And if you were to take them on, you would definitely require a certain finesse.
wonderfully worded.
to OP, and others ...
Even at the worst times of D&D inclusion (1990), racism was very limited, and usually only associated with specific settings, or societies which were. ie Thay, Dragonlance, Darksun... Generally Forgotten Realms along the sword coast there isn't a real majority race, and typical racism isn't a thing. Some races were antagonistic to each other due to long histories of the races being at war with each other, but generally humans were the least likely race to be racist. It was more common for an Elf and Dwarf to kind of hate each other, than for a human to be racist to anyone. (There is a meme about Bards, back in the AD&D days, it was a Human bard meme)
I would challenge people to go to the San Diego Comic Con back in 1997. It was fun, it was exciting, we didn't have celebrities taking it over, and activists didn't even exist in our world of Comic Con. It was simpler times. It amazed me that people felt the need to bring racism into an arena that was challenged enough just to have acceptance of the people playing it, Period.
1991 .. while I was in the USMC. It was a small event. Kind of pleasant, I only visited for an afternoon with a friend of mine who was really excited about the collector covers from Marvel. Oh, and D&D back then was nothing like it is today. For one thing in my gaming group we had 1 out very gay guy (Hispanic), one very straight body building beer drinking tanker with tattoos (our DM & White), me a very closeted trans person and bisexual who wore Goth as my defense for all my outward "gay" stuff (Jewish), a drunk metal head who believed every game had to start with Misty Mt Hoop (Portuguese), and the other metal guy who played bass, got me into thrash metal (Black South Central LA).
As I mentioned earlier, I include gender parity in my games. Women in the real world do face challenges getting certain jobs. You can look up General Vance if you want an example of the challenges women face. Most of my friends and I are trying to enter male-dominated fields. We can get all the sexism we want in reality, so I do not include it in my games. To some that may break immersion, but to me it is as important to my fantasy as the magic and the elves. I am using my imagination to imagine a world with a little less prejudice. Some people may feel the same way when it comes to racism. If people have to put up with unpleasant racism in real life, maybe they would also like to use their imaginations to create a world where racism is not as big a deal. People who see things my way are not wrong for eliminating something troubling because it exists in the real world. And people are also not wrong for trying to touch on real topics, if everyone playing is comfortable with that.
And I would be wary of tackling issues which are sensitive. I can think of watching stuff on television where a show written by men tries to tackle the issue of sexism. The episodes often still contain sexism. I am extremely white, so I avoid telling stories that I worry would be problematic to my non-white players. I know what it is like to sit there while someone unknowingly does something which makes me uncomfortable, so I try to avoid putting other people in that situation. I use my imagination on other stuff I know my players are into.
To sum up, I am not saying it is wrong to have fantasy racism. I would just make sure everyone is on board and comfortable. Neither of out ways of doing things are wrong, they are just better suited to different people.
As a DM I often add a racist element to my villains as it is a trait that all of my players can agree is bad. Sometimes I like a sort of anti hero, or villain that can be understood. However I have found when that isn't my goal that a good way to make a villain much more villainous and evil is to make them racist or give them some other irrational trait.
First (only?) sensible post I saw in this thread. If people don't want racism in their game because they get enough of it in real life, then that's perfectly ok. And if people want it in their game, because it creates context then that's ok. I think the one thing we all agree on is consent for whatever is at hand - I would be leery of someone using it as a recruiting strategy, in either direction (see following).
My one concern about avoiding sensitive topics is that it polarizes and divides people. Rather than engaging in dialogue and learning to live with our differences, we turn a blind eye to them, which can be dehumanizing. which is ironic for a principle of inclusivity. I think one person we could all learn from is Daryl Davis; google him, he is an inspiring individual.
P.S. yes many people are intransigent in their views, and a duty to engage only goes so far. But imo the intransigence is born from or facilitated by a lack of dialogue, and I think our fantasy worlds are safe places to explore the consequences of racism and how to address it. And, as fantasy game, maybe that sometimes means simply beating the bleep out of the racists. It's your game.
*varg vikernes enters chat*
It seems to me that it is rather odd to bring racism into a game.
Maybe it is just my jaded experience coming to DnD and gaming, but my gaming experience started when I was 8 years old. Racism back in the 80's wasn't as largely a talked about topic in the Tampa area where I grew up. I grew up in very mixed areas, so growing up it never occurred to anyone I was playing with that race was an issue. We had much bigger problems to consider, like finding other like minded people who would play DnD without calling us outcasts or nerds. None of us cared who you were, as long as you were willing to play. Our games were based off of lore we could find, and included some novels. But again there was no real racism with the exception that almost no one liked playing humans.
The fact that people in more recent years felt the need to bring it up in games, and to somehow make it a part of game play is pretty sick. It is like they needed victims and drama to give meaning to their lives. It wasn't until I was in my 30's that anyone even brought up racism in games around me, and most intelligent people I knew just ignored it, as that is just something we don't think about. Had people just let it go away, we wouldn't have this thread today. I would challenge people to go to the San Diego Comic Con back in 1997. It was fun, it was exciting, we didn't have celebrities taking it over, and activists didn't even exist in our world of Comic Con. It was simpler times. It amazed me that people felt the need to bring racism into an arena that was challenged enough just to have acceptance of the people playing it, Period.
I am not sure what my Spirit Animal is. But whatever that thing is, I am pretty sure it has rabies!
So you're the member of the necromantic cult reviving this thread who sees necromancy as an avenue to time travel? That's ... pretty cool world building, going to note that for my own games. But if people succeed in this challenge, those Artificers are in no way obligated to share their time travel technology with you. As such this time travel challenge is a text book illustration of the problems of winner take all capitalism. Whoever gets back to 1997 first can shape the world so that all competitors are either frustrated or even thwarted in their endeavors. The notion of a single Time Lord is too frightening a project and I strongly encourage you to dissolve this challenge.
Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
I'm sure this has been mentioned by others, but rural communities might not know what a tiefling is, and orcs, well depends on location and setting, as some settings Orcs are actually kind of rare and may only inhabit a single mountain range or coastal region half a continent away. (Toril/Forgotten Realms). If there is bias against a race, urban regions where one race has absolute dominance is where racism thrives.
example: I'm Jewish I look very typically Jewish, I live in the USA, and we still have people in this country who are biased against people of my ancestry. If I go to Cities in the "Bible belt" I will face discrimination for being Jewish looking, I will face discrimination for my other born traits as well. But if I go to West Virginia, where they usually can not identify me as a minority at all. They treat me as white. Mostly because they don't know what a Transgender Jewish woman would look like. BTW, I use to drive OTR, and experienced this first hand.
Rural people would be more likely to be untrusting of a common race that they interact with but have negative experiences with. Orcs and Tieflings are rare usually.
wonderfully worded.
to OP, and others ...
Even at the worst times of D&D inclusion (1990), racism was very limited, and usually only associated with specific settings, or societies which were. ie Thay, Dragonlance, Darksun... Generally Forgotten Realms along the sword coast there isn't a real majority race, and typical racism isn't a thing. Some races were antagonistic to each other due to long histories of the races being at war with each other, but generally humans were the least likely race to be racist. It was more common for an Elf and Dwarf to kind of hate each other, than for a human to be racist to anyone. (There is a meme about Bards, back in the AD&D days, it was a Human bard meme)
1991 .. while I was in the USMC. It was a small event. Kind of pleasant, I only visited for an afternoon with a friend of mine who was really excited about the collector covers from Marvel. Oh, and D&D back then was nothing like it is today. For one thing in my gaming group we had 1 out very gay guy (Hispanic), one very straight body building beer drinking tanker with tattoos (our DM & White), me a very closeted trans person and bisexual who wore Goth as my defense for all my outward "gay" stuff (Jewish), a drunk metal head who believed every game had to start with Misty Mt Hoop (Portuguese), and the other metal guy who played bass, got me into thrash metal (Black South Central LA).