ok,l know the title l gave this thread is dumb,but the question when said without context is dumb,so the following will be the context.
l am makeing a homebrew magic item,and one of the pieces needed to make it is gold dragon scales melted in the hottest flames of the multiverse (the gold scales thing is a different matter) and l was woundering,which place should l send the party to get special super hot magic fire,the 9 hells or the plane of fire. my first thought was that to get good fire,you should go to the plane of fire,but then l had to think:this item should not be easy to make,and this special fire cant be easy to get,so which would be harder,getting the magic fire from somewhere in hell or the plane of fire.
so my question is this,which place would be best to make a giant volcano they have to climb to get the magic lava contained within.
ps,because they would likely need to move the lava/fire,should l use the corpse/heart of some fire based boss that made that volcano its home? and if so,what should l make it? red dragons are possable,but they had to deal with a ancient gold dragon to get its scales (and not just one or 2,l mean like 100-100k or however many scales it has). maybe a powerful fire/lava elemental?
ideas are welcome.
edit:after doing some research,l think l have decided to make them fight a Phoenix in its volcano nest in the plane of fire to obtain its heart (and a quest before that so they can actualy kill it and take its heart) thoughts on the order 66 of the Phoenix? (maybe rather then its heart,maybe the egg made after "killing" it could be the heat source?)
( l heard the plane of fire got fused with other planes in the spell plague,but l dont understand the "SP" or the fusion of the planes,so l think l have more googleing to do)
the sun is pretty hot, and in previous editions of dnd you do not need a space suit to be in space, whenever you leave the atmosphere you bring a bubble of air with you, so an mage with the right tools could get to the sun and melt something there
great idea! rather then my idea of sending them into the plane of fire to fight a phoenix in its volcano nest,l can make them find a way to 1.get to the sun while staying alive,and 2. bringing back a small piece of the sun to (planet name). (maybe l could even add a "cosmic phoenix" who lives in the sun,and they either have to fight or bargain with it to get the sun piece)
I would say use the elemental plane of fire just because if I remember right thats how the sun is made in forgotten realms. Maybe use the feathers of the phoenix to light the forge for a month or something.
A phoenix egg and/or heart? A very interesting task. Of course, if you plan to do this I suggest doing some research on the Elemental Plane of Fire. There should be some villages/towns of metal, brimstone, or obsidian made by that plane's residents: Salamanders, Azers, Firenewts, etc. Major cities could be home to Fire Giants and Efreeti. If you really want to make it hard, maybe have a phoenix be the war mount for a Fire Giant king, so not only would the eggs and bird be dangerous to get, but also protected by legions of fire giants. My opinion of course.
I know you found something, but I simply must suggest this idea since I think it to be cool. In the 9 Hells on the layer of Phlegethos ruled by Belial and Fierna, the fires of that plane provide heat but no harm. But, when a devil gets a promotion/demotion, they travel to Phlegethos to receive it. At the moment of promotion/demotion, the devil in question is either engulfed in flames of euphoria, or flames hotter than anything that are able to give the pain of a thousand suns. Getting a devil demoted, having to be present for the demotion, finding a way to use the intense flames (most obvious way is to get the devil to hold the unfinished item, which is still immensely tricky, or by some other means), and traveling to the 4th layer of the hells is a beyond difficult task. Before, you had requested a very very tough mission to get immensely hot flames, and so, I present you with this. Who knows, since the City of Brass on the Elemental Plane of Fire's grand bazaar often make trades with devils (creature trades mostly), it is possible to have this devilish route available if the phoenix thing doesn't work out.
A phoenix egg and/or heart? A very interesting task. Of course, if you plan to do this I suggest doing some research on the Elemental Plane of Fire. There should be some villages/towns of metal, brimstone, or obsidian made by that plane's residents: Salamanders, Azers, Firenewts, etc. Major cities could be home to Fire Giants and Efreeti. If you really want to make it hard, maybe have a phoenix be the war mount for a Fire Giant king, so not only would the eggs and bird be dangerous to get, but also protected by legions of fire giants. My opinion of course.
l was just planing on them fighting a phoenix in its nest atop a very tall volcano,but l like your idea more!
Irony would be requiring a cold flame instead of a hot flame.The scale could require contradictory magics that encompass and contest the fire aspect of Gold Dragons. If it's Immune to fire, maybe it needs a different way to forge it with something to which it's not immune but still fire.
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Human. Male. Possibly. Don't be a divider. My characters' backgrounds are written like instruction manuals rather than stories. My opinion and preferences don't mean you're wrong. I am 99.7603% convinced that the digital dice are messing with me. I roll high when nobody's looking and low when anyone else can see.🎲 “It's a bit early to be thinking about an epitaph. No?” will be my epitaph.
I appreciate the approach in the game to searching for the hottest fire, or something approximating that. But I want to share with y'all some misconceptions about heating metal.
The real secret to getting a hot fire is supplying the oxygen to sustain the reaction, which is called Oxidation. A blacksmith has a particularly hot fire for doing his work because he has a bellows to pump air into his fire. NASA achieves their highly efficient rocket propulsion by pumping liquid oxygen into the combustion. It is true that you need to feed the fire with an adequate amount of fuel to sustain the rate of combustion, but it is usually the oxygen rate that is the key factor.
So while you may not be able to find "the hottest fire in the multi-verse" on the Material Plane, finding a fire hot enough to achieve the super high temperatures needed to forge and smelt metal doesn't require one to go to a volcano or something like that.
Also. in case anyone wants to add this to your special knowledge base of experts in game, steel melts at about 2300 deg F. Below that it glows until you get near the phase transition temperature, which above 1200 deg F. Just above that steel glows with a dull red, then red, then orange, then yellow, then bright yellow. At molten temperatures, steel glows bright enough that it will harm your eyes. Smiths typically work metal that is somewhere between red and yellow and they know the temperature by looking at the colors and they know how much hammering it takes based on the colors. I also know pure zinc melts at about 830 deg F. At that temperature it is "shiny" but not quite mirror finish. When it cools it becomes dull grey. Copper melts at just under 2000 deg F. Aluminum melts at 1220 deg F. Iron melts at 2800 deg F. Gold melts at 1950 deg F. Silver melts at 1760 deg F. Platinum melts over 3200. Tin melts at 450 deg F. Lead melts at 620 deg F. Bronze (Copper and Tin) melts at about 950 deg F. Brass (Copper and Zinc) melts at about 1700 deg F. Nickel melts at about 2650 deg F.
You might have a low level smith know very well the melting points of steel and iron and what color they wish to see as they work the metal. A very high grade smith might know about all the metals. A jeweler might know about copper, silver, electrum (which is probably the DND name for nickel), gold and platinum but unfamiliar with the other metals. Of course, anyone operating a mint would also know about melting "precious" metals. It is unlikely Aluminum would appear in a Medieval setting, nor would titanium or tungsten. Mithril is probably considered a magical blend of steel and silver, which I believe also doesn't tarnish like gold and platinum. Nickel and Zinc tarnish little only to lose their shine after they have been buffed. Copper tarnishes to a green. Silver tarnishes to a grey almost black color. Steel and iron tarnish to form red to brown colors.
So from a hobbyist level of metallurgy, those are some ideas you can use in your campaign to leave clues about what is going on.
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Cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscript catapultas habebunt
the sun is pretty hot, and in previous editions of dnd you do not need a space suit to be in space, whenever you leave the atmosphere you bring a bubble of air with you, so an mage with the right tools could get to the sun and melt something there
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i am soup, with too many ideas (all of them very spicy) who has made sufficient homebrew material and character to last an thousand human lifetimes
the sun is pretty hot, and in previous editions of dnd you do not need a space suit to be in space, whenever you leave the atmosphere you bring a bubble of air with you, so an mage with the right tools could get to the sun and melt something there
great idea! rather then my idea of sending them into the plane of fire to fight a phoenix in its volcano nest,l can make them find a way to 1.get to the sun while staying alive,and 2. bringing back a small piece of the sun to (planet name). (maybe l could even add a "cosmic phoenix" who lives in the sun,and they either have to fight or bargain with it to get the sun piece)
the sun is pretty hot, and in previous editions of dnd you do not need a space suit to be in space, whenever you leave the atmosphere you bring a bubble of air with you, so an mage with the right tools could get to the sun and melt something there
great idea! rather then my idea of sending them into the plane of fire to fight a phoenix in its volcano nest,l can make them find a way to 1.get to the sun while staying alive,and 2. bringing back a small piece of the sun to (planet name). (maybe l could even add a "cosmic phoenix" who lives in the sun,and they either have to fight or bargain with it to get the sun piece)
note: if you want to make it even cooler, it was once an campaign setting called Spelljammer, where people would fly on magic powered spaceships called spelljammers fueled by magical chairs called spelljamming helms. Mind flayers even have their own psionic variant of an spelljammer called an nalutioid mentioned briefly in volo's guide to monsters (in other words highly cannon to 5e) here is an video that explains the concept a bit better if you are interested. So in other words on the way to the sun to go fight an space phoenix the characters might end up encountering illithid space pirates or fellow space travelers
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i am soup, with too many ideas (all of them very spicy) who has made sufficient homebrew material and character to last an thousand human lifetimes
Quote from MusicScout>>The real secret to getting a hot fire is supplying the oxygen to sustain the reaction, which is called Oxidation. A blacksmith has a particularly hot fire for doing his work because he has a bellows to pump air into his fire. NASA achieves their highly efficient rocket propulsion by pumping liquid oxygen into the combustion. It is true that you need to feed the fire with an adequate amount of fuel to sustain the rate of combustion, but it is usually the oxygen rate that is the key factor.
Thank you. I know this and like everyone else here I was thinking DND instead of science. I am so jazzed i could cry.
Thank you. I know this and like everyone else here I was thinking DND instead of science. I am so jazzed i could cry.
OK, so how do you intend to utilize the hottest fire you can find? I presume you want to either destroy something (a la Lord of the Rings) or you want to purify something. If you plan to do this on Mundus or Gaia, or whatever name you give the material plane, you will need to supply oxygen to the fire to keep it hot. Or, you can just use magic and the question is moot.
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Cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscript catapultas habebunt
You need two portals to be maintained to the elemental plane of fire and the elemental plane of air - fire for the fire, and air for the wind to stoke it into an inferno. Then you need some way to contain the inferno (magical forge within a different plane) to not just cast lvl 10 fireball on self. Then you need an anvil which can take the heat, and a hammer, and gloves, mask, and apron to work the metal without being burnt.
Lots of macguffins and plothooks to work with there!
In my homebrew world, there's a religion that has a bottle of Phlogiston, the ur-fire, the very fires of creation. It's their 'holiest of holies', and they're real happy about it, so it has place of honor on the alter of their main cathedral.
It has the ability to burn anything and everything, and if you happened to drop it, the fire could literally burn away the multiverse - making it also the fires of uncreation. It would literally burn a hole in reality, and keep burning until somehow contained.
The members of this religion kinda-sorta know this, but sort of don't think or talk about it much. Their attitude is basically 'this is fine'.
Anyways, in my world, that would be the hottest fire in the multiverse.
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Blanket disclaimer: I only ever state opinion. But I can sound terribly dogmatic - so if you feel I'm trying to tell you what to think, I'm really not, I swear. I'm telling you what I think, that's all.
How can something capable of burning reality itself be kept in a bottle?
A wizard did it.
What Ace of Rogues said: It's a magic bottle.
If you want to be really specific about it, it's a containment field in the shape of a bottle. Getting even more specific, the Creator God - whom we shall refer to here as Melvin, for he has no name that survives to this day - was an absent minded sort of fellow, and he accidentally left the bottle behind when he was done with his work of creating all the things that are, were and shall ever be. It's not the only thing of his laying about in reality - his forge is still there, his slippers, his easel and his bottle of Phlogiston.
Once creation was done, he made himself scarce - as rumor has it, he did so with a chuckle.
So .. not just an off-the-shelf earthenware jug.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Blanket disclaimer: I only ever state opinion. But I can sound terribly dogmatic - so if you feel I'm trying to tell you what to think, I'm really not, I swear. I'm telling you what I think, that's all.
ok,l know the title l gave this thread is dumb,but the question when said without context is dumb,so the following will be the context.
l am makeing a homebrew magic item,and one of the pieces needed to make it is gold dragon scales melted in the hottest flames of the multiverse (the gold scales thing is a different matter) and l was woundering,which place should l send the party to get special super hot magic fire,the 9 hells or the plane of fire. my first thought was that to get good fire,you should go to the plane of fire,but then l had to think:this item should not be easy to make,and this special fire cant be easy to get,so which would be harder,getting the magic fire from somewhere in hell or the plane of fire.
so my question is this,which place would be best to make a giant volcano they have to climb to get the magic lava contained within.
ps,because they would likely need to move the lava/fire,should l use the corpse/heart of some fire based boss that made that volcano its home? and if so,what should l make it? red dragons are possable,but they had to deal with a ancient gold dragon to get its scales (and not just one or 2,l mean like 100-100k or however many scales it has). maybe a powerful fire/lava elemental?
ideas are welcome.
edit:after doing some research,l think l have decided to make them fight a Phoenix in its volcano nest in the plane of fire to obtain its heart (and a quest before that so they can actualy kill it and take its heart) thoughts on the order 66 of the Phoenix? (maybe rather then its heart,maybe the egg made after "killing" it could be the heat source?)
( l heard the plane of fire got fused with other planes in the spell plague,but l dont understand the "SP" or the fusion of the planes,so l think l have more googleing to do)
great idea! rather then my idea of sending them into the plane of fire to fight a phoenix in its volcano nest,l can make them find a way to 1.get to the sun while staying alive,and 2. bringing back a small piece of the sun to (planet name). (maybe l could even add a "cosmic phoenix" who lives in the sun,and they either have to fight or bargain with it to get the sun piece)
I would say use the elemental plane of fire just because if I remember right thats how the sun is made in forgotten realms. Maybe use the feathers of the phoenix to light the forge for a month or something.
A phoenix egg and/or heart? A very interesting task. Of course, if you plan to do this I suggest doing some research on the Elemental Plane of Fire. There should be some villages/towns of metal, brimstone, or obsidian made by that plane's residents: Salamanders, Azers, Firenewts, etc. Major cities could be home to Fire Giants and Efreeti. If you really want to make it hard, maybe have a phoenix be the war mount for a Fire Giant king, so not only would the eggs and bird be dangerous to get, but also protected by legions of fire giants. My opinion of course.
I know you found something, but I simply must suggest this idea since I think it to be cool. In the 9 Hells on the layer of Phlegethos ruled by Belial and Fierna, the fires of that plane provide heat but no harm. But, when a devil gets a promotion/demotion, they travel to Phlegethos to receive it. At the moment of promotion/demotion, the devil in question is either engulfed in flames of euphoria, or flames hotter than anything that are able to give the pain of a thousand suns. Getting a devil demoted, having to be present for the demotion, finding a way to use the intense flames (most obvious way is to get the devil to hold the unfinished item, which is still immensely tricky, or by some other means), and traveling to the 4th layer of the hells is a beyond difficult task. Before, you had requested a very very tough mission to get immensely hot flames, and so, I present you with this. Who knows, since the City of Brass on the Elemental Plane of Fire's grand bazaar often make trades with devils (creature trades mostly), it is possible to have this devilish route available if the phoenix thing doesn't work out.
l was just planing on them fighting a phoenix in its nest atop a very tall volcano,but l like your idea more!
the elemental plane of fire
"If you ever ask a wizard to list the books they've read recently, prepare to be there for a solid week. " - Original.
Grammar Cult
Bow down to Cats! (Cult of Cats)
I mean, Its literally named fire
"If you ever ask a wizard to list the books they've read recently, prepare to be there for a solid week. " - Original.
Grammar Cult
Bow down to Cats! (Cult of Cats)
Irony would be requiring a cold flame instead of a hot flame.The scale could require contradictory magics that encompass and contest the fire aspect of Gold Dragons. If it's Immune to fire, maybe it needs a different way to forge it with something to which it's not immune but still fire.
Human. Male. Possibly. Don't be a divider.
My characters' backgrounds are written like instruction manuals rather than stories. My opinion and preferences don't mean you're wrong.
I am 99.7603% convinced that the digital dice are messing with me. I roll high when nobody's looking and low when anyone else can see.🎲
“It's a bit early to be thinking about an epitaph. No?” will be my epitaph.
I appreciate the approach in the game to searching for the hottest fire, or something approximating that. But I want to share with y'all some misconceptions about heating metal.
The real secret to getting a hot fire is supplying the oxygen to sustain the reaction, which is called Oxidation. A blacksmith has a particularly hot fire for doing his work because he has a bellows to pump air into his fire. NASA achieves their highly efficient rocket propulsion by pumping liquid oxygen into the combustion. It is true that you need to feed the fire with an adequate amount of fuel to sustain the rate of combustion, but it is usually the oxygen rate that is the key factor.
So while you may not be able to find "the hottest fire in the multi-verse" on the Material Plane, finding a fire hot enough to achieve the super high temperatures needed to forge and smelt metal doesn't require one to go to a volcano or something like that.
Also. in case anyone wants to add this to your special knowledge base of experts in game, steel melts at about 2300 deg F. Below that it glows until you get near the phase transition temperature, which above 1200 deg F. Just above that steel glows with a dull red, then red, then orange, then yellow, then bright yellow. At molten temperatures, steel glows bright enough that it will harm your eyes. Smiths typically work metal that is somewhere between red and yellow and they know the temperature by looking at the colors and they know how much hammering it takes based on the colors. I also know pure zinc melts at about 830 deg F. At that temperature it is "shiny" but not quite mirror finish. When it cools it becomes dull grey. Copper melts at just under 2000 deg F. Aluminum melts at 1220 deg F. Iron melts at 2800 deg F. Gold melts at 1950 deg F. Silver melts at 1760 deg F. Platinum melts over 3200. Tin melts at 450 deg F. Lead melts at 620 deg F. Bronze (Copper and Tin) melts at about 950 deg F. Brass (Copper and Zinc) melts at about 1700 deg F. Nickel melts at about 2650 deg F.
You might have a low level smith know very well the melting points of steel and iron and what color they wish to see as they work the metal. A very high grade smith might know about all the metals. A jeweler might know about copper, silver, electrum (which is probably the DND name for nickel), gold and platinum but unfamiliar with the other metals. Of course, anyone operating a mint would also know about melting "precious" metals. It is unlikely Aluminum would appear in a Medieval setting, nor would titanium or tungsten. Mithril is probably considered a magical blend of steel and silver, which I believe also doesn't tarnish like gold and platinum. Nickel and Zinc tarnish little only to lose their shine after they have been buffed. Copper tarnishes to a green. Silver tarnishes to a grey almost black color. Steel and iron tarnish to form red to brown colors.
So from a hobbyist level of metallurgy, those are some ideas you can use in your campaign to leave clues about what is going on.
Cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscript catapultas habebunt
the sun is pretty hot, and in previous editions of dnd you do not need a space suit to be in space, whenever you leave the atmosphere you bring a bubble of air with you, so an mage with the right tools could get to the sun and melt something there
i am soup, with too many ideas (all of them very spicy) who has made sufficient homebrew material and character to last an thousand human lifetimes
great idea! rather then my idea of sending them into the plane of fire to fight a phoenix in its volcano nest,l can make them find a way to 1.get to the sun while staying alive,and 2. bringing back a small piece of the sun to (planet name). (maybe l could even add a "cosmic phoenix" who lives in the sun,and they either have to fight or bargain with it to get the sun piece)
note: if you want to make it even cooler, it was once an campaign setting called Spelljammer, where people would fly on magic powered spaceships called spelljammers fueled by magical chairs called spelljamming helms. Mind flayers even have their own psionic variant of an spelljammer called an nalutioid mentioned briefly in volo's guide to monsters (in other words highly cannon to 5e) here is an video that explains the concept a bit better if you are interested. So in other words on the way to the sun to go fight an space phoenix the characters might end up encountering illithid space pirates or fellow space travelers
i am soup, with too many ideas (all of them very spicy) who has made sufficient homebrew material and character to last an thousand human lifetimes
thanks for the idea! though, l did know about those from watching the video you linked to.
Thank you. I know this and like everyone else here I was thinking DND instead of science. I am so jazzed i could cry.
Thank you. I know this and like everyone else here I was thinking DND instead of science. I am so jazzed i could cry.
Cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscript catapultas habebunt
You need two portals to be maintained to the elemental plane of fire and the elemental plane of air - fire for the fire, and air for the wind to stoke it into an inferno. Then you need some way to contain the inferno (magical forge within a different plane) to not just cast lvl 10 fireball on self. Then you need an anvil which can take the heat, and a hammer, and gloves, mask, and apron to work the metal without being burnt.
Lots of macguffins and plothooks to work with there!
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In my homebrew world, there's a religion that has a bottle of Phlogiston, the ur-fire, the very fires of creation. It's their 'holiest of holies', and they're real happy about it, so it has place of honor on the alter of their main cathedral.
It has the ability to burn anything and everything, and if you happened to drop it, the fire could literally burn away the multiverse - making it also the fires of uncreation. It would literally burn a hole in reality, and keep burning until somehow contained.
The members of this religion kinda-sorta know this, but sort of don't think or talk about it much. Their attitude is basically 'this is fine'.
Anyways, in my world, that would be the hottest fire in the multiverse.
Blanket disclaimer: I only ever state opinion. But I can sound terribly dogmatic - so if you feel I'm trying to tell you what to think, I'm really not, I swear. I'm telling you what I think, that's all.
How can something capable of burning reality itself be kept in a bottle?
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
A wizard did it.
What Ace of Rogues said: It's a magic bottle.
If you want to be really specific about it, it's a containment field in the shape of a bottle. Getting even more specific, the Creator God - whom we shall refer to here as Melvin, for he has no name that survives to this day - was an absent minded sort of fellow, and he accidentally left the bottle behind when he was done with his work of creating all the things that are, were and shall ever be. It's not the only thing of his laying about in reality - his forge is still there, his slippers, his easel and his bottle of Phlogiston.
Once creation was done, he made himself scarce - as rumor has it, he did so with a chuckle.
So .. not just an off-the-shelf earthenware jug.
Blanket disclaimer: I only ever state opinion. But I can sound terribly dogmatic - so if you feel I'm trying to tell you what to think, I'm really not, I swear. I'm telling you what I think, that's all.
I dis-believe. Phlogiston does not exist!