If you're more open to different subclasses, I think that a SoulKnife Rogue might get you more the flavor you want. It allows you to manifest magical psychic blades which have a much greater throwing range than normal daggers. Unfortunately it doesn't pair well with Hexblade, because the psychic blades so you can't, by RAW, treat them as your Hex Warrior weapon... but I think it wouldn't be hard to convince your DM to let you, if you're really set on Hexblade now, especially since you seem to have some backstory already written for it.
It seemed interesting, but I'm going to see what the rest of the party is before deciding. So far I'm fairly certain we have a barbarian as a tank and a druid as support/blaster confirmed and then a Ranger and a Fighter unconfirmed. I've had a few character Concepts in mind so whatever the party is missing I'll just play that I guess. This was just the one I was looking forward to the most. I suppose I could still play it and take other feats and just use a Rapier but I was just really trying for something that I didn't think had been done too many times before.
On the plus side, it seems like your party is already pretty well covered in terms of balance for combat, so you can freely kind of do whatever you want. It's a good opportunity to get experimental and try out a build you hadn't considered before.
I'd say the important thing is to not worry too much about getting the best possible build. Just create what looks like fun for you and run with it.
This will be my first time with an experienced DM and my first campaign . I've played a couple minor One-Shots but the DM's weren't very experienced.
It wasn't so much trying to get the best build strictly throw knives, but to make one that fit the concept of the performer who entertains doing mock fights, blade juggling, knife throwing, etc. and what could be considered like "special effects" with magic(disguise self, pyrotechnics, unseen Servant, etc.) utilizing their stage skills to be effective and more creative in combat as well. Throwing knives were an answer to flying/distant enemies instead of Vicious Mockery. I might take vicious Mockery over prestidigitation, but I hate the idea of making a "yo mama" joke and whatever I'm fighting gets hurt by it. I thought I had it pretty down packed until I rechecked the Swashbuckler sneak attack rules. It may be something I still strive to make. Depending on if we have any kind of "blaster" characters in the party, I suppose I could talk to the DM about his ruling on Sharpshooter and whether or not a thrown dagger is considered a ranged attack or if I coul use darts as melee weapons as well as thrown ranged weapons. I'll have to just wait and see.
I have taken the liberty of grabbing your words from your first post and editing them a little. Here's what you said.
If my character or the campaign hypothetically makes it to level 20, I'm looking to go College of Swords Bard. For party roles I'm trying to be the face, support, and minor striker, think of a performer in the circus who uses their skills and abilities in combat. I want to take the Actor, Fighter initiate (thrown weapon fighting), and Bountiful Luck feats, I'm Aiming for at least 18 in CHA and DEX by the end of the campaign.
You started to talk about multi-classing, but I can't really see any reason for that. What specifically do you want that a College of Swords Bard cannot provide?
I have taken the liberty of grabbing your words from your first post and editing them a little. Here's what you said.
If my character or the campaign hypothetically makes it to level 20, I'm looking to go College of Swords Bard. For party roles I'm trying to be the face, support, and minor striker, think of a performer in the circus who uses their skills and abilities in combat. I want to take the Actor, Fighter initiate (thrown weapon fighting), and Bountiful Luck feats, I'm Aiming for at least 18 in CHA and DEX by the end of the campaign.
You started to talk about multi-classing, but I can't really see any reason for that. What specifically do you want that a College of Swords Bard cannot provide?
More damage output without going full Battlemage. That and the swashbuckler flavor
If all you do is go Swords, and you're throwing daggers, and you're dual wielding, and you've taken a feat on Thrown Weapon fighting style too.. then you're looking at three attacks per round at d4+7. Up until level 14, you can make that a little better 3-5 times per combat, by adding another d6-d10 by burning your limited inspiration charges (on a frankly very inefficient and underwhelming bonus damage dice). That's a few attacks doing d4+7+d10 (average 15), but most of your attacks doing average 10 without inspiration. Even if every attack hits, doing somewhere between 30 and 45 damage per round isn't exactly "Striker." After level 14, you can stop burning inspirations and just take a flat bonus d6 on every attack, meaning then you'd be doing a minimum of d4+7+d6 (average 13) per hit, or a maximum of d4+7+d12 (average 16) if you burn your 3-5 inspirations you have per short rest, so somewhere between 39 and 48 damage per round in T4, trending down to 39 very quickly as inspiration is used up.
That's fine, but it's very underwhelming for a striker. A pure rogue with one fighting style from a feat (TWF) would be doing d4+5 twice, and 10d6 sneak once, around 50 per round in T4. A pure fighter with the two fighting styles would be doing d4+7 five times per round, around 48 round. Those are both pretty underwhelming too, but aren't taking into consideration any other subclass features to bump it up higher like the Bard is already fully leveraging just to reach 39-48.
Sharpshooter and throwing darts would help a lot with DPR at high tiers, but the Bard is more pressed for feats than the Fighter or Rogue are, not only having fewer feats as class features, but also needing to balance increasing both Dexterity and Charisma to 20 (and don't forget constitution, and don't forget intelligence and wisdom so that you can actually RP as a cleverboi!).
Cassius' original idea (Swords 6/Archfey 3/Swashbuckler 11 who tops out at 18 Dex and 18 Cha) would probably top out around d4+6 times three daggers (average 25.5), plus one 6d6 sneak attack (21), plus one d8 flourish (4.5) per turn. That's around 51 per turn, but also, is at -5% to hit due to 18 Dex off the baselines above (call it 48 per turn), and also, runs out of inspirations a round earlier, dropping to (call it 44). It's a little better than a basic Sword Bard for DPR, but not much, and not at the level of featureless no-subclass Rogue or Fighter. It has some interesting side features like Panache, but also wastes several melee abilities it doesn't plan to use, commits to pretty much never using Bardic inspiration to inspire, which is odd, and doesn't seem that interested in casting spells despite having half its levels in spellcasting classes.
I don't think there's anything wrong with it, if that's the character they're interested in playing. Certainly it's a very flexible character, that can do interesting things throwing daggers, stabbing with daggers, casting spells, creeping around, interacting with NPCs, etc etc. Rather than focusing 100% on DPR in Tier 4 and talking yourself out of a character you're interested in, if that's the concept that Cassius' is interested in, I think they should follow their instincts! There are better faces, better support characters, and better strikers out there... but you don't have to be the best, and especially as a bard, building to be okay at a lot of different things is the name of the game.
If all you do is go Swords, and you're throwing daggers, and you're dual wielding, and you've taken a feat on Thrown Weapon fighting style too.. then you're looking at three attacks per round at d4+7. Up until level 14, you can make that a little better 3-5 times per combat, by adding another d6-d10 by burning your limited inspiration charges (on a frankly very inefficient and underwhelming bonus damage dice). That's a few attacks doing d4+7+d10 (average 15), but most of your attacks doing average 10 without inspiration. Even if every attack hits, doing somewhere between 30 and 45 damage per round isn't exactly "Striker." After level 14, you can stop burning inspirations and just take a flat bonus d6 on every attack, meaning then you'd be doing a minimum of d4+7+d6 (average 13) per hit, or a maximum of d4+7+d12 (average 16) if you burn your 3-5 inspirations you have per short rest, so somewhere between 39 and 48 damage per round in T4, trending down to 39 very quickly as inspiration is used up.
That's fine, but it's very underwhelming for a striker. A pure rogue with one fighting style from a feat (TWF) would be doing d4+5 twice, and 10d6 sneak once, around 50 per round in T4. A pure fighter with the two fighting styles would be doing d4+7 five times per round, around 48 round. Those are both pretty underwhelming too, but aren't taking into consideration any other subclass features to bump it up higher like the Bard is already fully leveraging just to reach 39-48.
Sharpshooter and throwing darts would help a lot with DPR at high tiers, but the Bard is more pressed for feats than the Fighter or Rogue are, not only having fewer feats as class features, but also needing to balance increasing both Dexterity and Charisma to 20 (and don't forget constitution, and don't forget intelligence and wisdom so that you can actually RP as a cleverboi!).
Cassius' original idea (Swords 6/Archfey 3/Swashbuckler 11 who tops out at 18 Dex and 18 Cha) would probably top out around d4+6 times three daggers (average 25.5), plus one 6d6 sneak attack (21), plus one d8 flourish (4.5) per turn. That's around 51 per turn, but also, is at -5% to hit due to 18 Dex off the baselines above (call it 48 per turn), and also, runs out of inspirations a round earlier, dropping to (call it 44). It's a little better than a basic Sword Bard for DPR, but not much, and not at the level of featureless no-subclass Rogue or Fighter. It has some interesting side features like Panache, but also wastes several melee abilities it doesn't plan to use, commits to pretty much never using Bardic inspiration to inspire, which is odd, and doesn't seem that interested in casting spells despite having half its levels in spellcasting classes.
I don't think there's anything wrong with it, if that's the character they're interested in playing. Certainly it's a very flexible character, that can do interesting things throwing daggers, stabbing with daggers, casting spells, creeping around, interacting with NPCs, etc etc. Rather than focusing 100% on DPR in Tier 4 and talking yourself out of a character you're interested in, if that's the concept that Cassius' is interested in, I think they should follow their instincts! There are better faces, better support characters, and better strikers out there... but you don't have to be the best, and especially as a bard, building to be okay at a lot of different things is the name of the game.
I do still intend to give inspirations here and there. I've seen the memes/vines of people wasting bardic inspirations and I figure if it were to become a habit then I can do a flourish or two here or there. As I said the mobile flourish will more than likely be the one I use the most to position enemies, knock them off cliffs/structures, etc. So long as the party use the inspirations I give them, I'll probably do that rather than the flourishes. I thought about valor, but I don't get a fighting style or the ability to use a weapon as a focus, forcing me to draw/stow weapons and the instrument.
Like I said I may switch depending on who else is in the party. I kind of like the idea of not completely sticking to a class' niche. I honestly don't even want to do the whole trap disarm thing as my rogue. I would rather leave that up to the Ranger and it gives them something a little more to do since the Rangers vanilla features a kind of bad and a lot of the Rangers spells that are unique to them could honestly be flavored as more like traps.
As I said the mobile flourish will more than likely be the one I use the most to position enemies, knock them off cliffs/structures, etc.
This is a great use for it, I have used it to great effect ... exactly once ... on a character that I have played from level 3 to level 11. It was pretty clutch when it happened, but unless your DM is always placing enemies precariously near the edge of cliffs you may not get as much use out of this as you think. Or, and this could happen, your druid uses Spike Growth a lot. That's a very nice synergy where you can score a bunch of extra damage, pushing enemies through spikes. If I had a druid in my regular group, I might use that tactic more often. Hmm ... actually the ranger knows Spike Growth ... I might have to take this up with him.
I don't want to discourage you, Swords Bard is really fun. My Swords Bard is my favorite character! Honestly I think you might be overthinking at this point. Your character doesn't have to be perfect, you can adjust things after you've played a bit. Don't try to make the perfect character, just jump in and try it out and then see what you like and what may not work out like you thought it would.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Canto alla vita alla sua bellezza ad ogni sua ferita ogni sua carezza!
I sing to life and to its tragic beauty To pain and to strife, but all that dances through me The rise and the fall, I've lived through it all!
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
This will be my first time with an experienced DM and my first campaign . I've played a couple minor One-Shots but the DM's weren't very experienced.
It wasn't so much trying to get the best build strictly throw knives, but to make one that fit the concept of the performer who entertains doing mock fights, blade juggling, knife throwing, etc. and what could be considered like "special effects" with magic(disguise self, pyrotechnics, unseen Servant, etc.) utilizing their stage skills to be effective and more creative in combat as well. Throwing knives were an answer to flying/distant enemies instead of Vicious Mockery. I might take vicious Mockery over prestidigitation, but I hate the idea of making a "yo mama" joke and whatever I'm fighting gets hurt by it. I thought I had it pretty down packed until I rechecked the Swashbuckler sneak attack rules. It may be something I still strive to make. Depending on if we have any kind of "blaster" characters in the party, I suppose I could talk to the DM about his ruling on Sharpshooter and whether or not a thrown dagger is considered a ranged attack or if I coul use darts as melee weapons as well as thrown ranged weapons. I'll have to just wait and see.
I have taken the liberty of grabbing your words from your first post and editing them a little. Here's what you said.
You started to talk about multi-classing, but I can't really see any reason for that. What specifically do you want that a College of Swords Bard cannot provide?
<Insert clever signature here>
More damage output without going full Battlemage. That and the swashbuckler flavor
If all you do is go Swords, and you're throwing daggers, and you're dual wielding, and you've taken a feat on Thrown Weapon fighting style too.. then you're looking at three attacks per round at d4+7. Up until level 14, you can make that a little better 3-5 times per combat, by adding another d6-d10 by burning your limited inspiration charges (on a frankly very inefficient and underwhelming bonus damage dice). That's a few attacks doing d4+7+d10 (average 15), but most of your attacks doing average 10 without inspiration. Even if every attack hits, doing somewhere between 30 and 45 damage per round isn't exactly "Striker." After level 14, you can stop burning inspirations and just take a flat bonus d6 on every attack, meaning then you'd be doing a minimum of d4+7+d6 (average 13) per hit, or a maximum of d4+7+d12 (average 16) if you burn your 3-5 inspirations you have per short rest, so somewhere between 39 and 48 damage per round in T4, trending down to 39 very quickly as inspiration is used up.
That's fine, but it's very underwhelming for a striker. A pure rogue with one fighting style from a feat (TWF) would be doing d4+5 twice, and 10d6 sneak once, around 50 per round in T4. A pure fighter with the two fighting styles would be doing d4+7 five times per round, around 48 round. Those are both pretty underwhelming too, but aren't taking into consideration any other subclass features to bump it up higher like the Bard is already fully leveraging just to reach 39-48.
Sharpshooter and throwing darts would help a lot with DPR at high tiers, but the Bard is more pressed for feats than the Fighter or Rogue are, not only having fewer feats as class features, but also needing to balance increasing both Dexterity and Charisma to 20 (and don't forget constitution, and don't forget intelligence and wisdom so that you can actually RP as a cleverboi!).
Cassius' original idea (Swords 6/Archfey 3/Swashbuckler 11 who tops out at 18 Dex and 18 Cha) would probably top out around d4+6 times three daggers (average 25.5), plus one 6d6 sneak attack (21), plus one d8 flourish (4.5) per turn. That's around 51 per turn, but also, is at -5% to hit due to 18 Dex off the baselines above (call it 48 per turn), and also, runs out of inspirations a round earlier, dropping to (call it 44). It's a little better than a basic Sword Bard for DPR, but not much, and not at the level of featureless no-subclass Rogue or Fighter. It has some interesting side features like Panache, but also wastes several melee abilities it doesn't plan to use, commits to pretty much never using Bardic inspiration to inspire, which is odd, and doesn't seem that interested in casting spells despite having half its levels in spellcasting classes.
I don't think there's anything wrong with it, if that's the character they're interested in playing. Certainly it's a very flexible character, that can do interesting things throwing daggers, stabbing with daggers, casting spells, creeping around, interacting with NPCs, etc etc. Rather than focusing 100% on DPR in Tier 4 and talking yourself out of a character you're interested in, if that's the concept that Cassius' is interested in, I think they should follow their instincts! There are better faces, better support characters, and better strikers out there... but you don't have to be the best, and especially as a bard, building to be okay at a lot of different things is the name of the game.
dndbeyond.com forum tags
I'm going to make this way harder than it needs to be.
I do still intend to give inspirations here and there. I've seen the memes/vines of people wasting bardic inspirations and I figure if it were to become a habit then I can do a flourish or two here or there. As I said the mobile flourish will more than likely be the one I use the most to position enemies, knock them off cliffs/structures, etc. So long as the party use the inspirations I give them, I'll probably do that rather than the flourishes. I thought about valor, but I don't get a fighting style or the ability to use a weapon as a focus, forcing me to draw/stow weapons and the instrument.
Like I said I may switch depending on who else is in the party. I kind of like the idea of not completely sticking to a class' niche. I honestly don't even want to do the whole trap disarm thing as my rogue. I would rather leave that up to the Ranger and it gives them something a little more to do since the Rangers vanilla features a kind of bad and a lot of the Rangers spells that are unique to them could honestly be flavored as more like traps.
This is a great use for it, I have used it to great effect ... exactly once ... on a character that I have played from level 3 to level 11. It was pretty clutch when it happened, but unless your DM is always placing enemies precariously near the edge of cliffs you may not get as much use out of this as you think. Or, and this could happen, your druid uses Spike Growth a lot. That's a very nice synergy where you can score a bunch of extra damage, pushing enemies through spikes. If I had a druid in my regular group, I might use that tactic more often. Hmm ... actually the ranger knows Spike Growth ... I might have to take this up with him.
I don't want to discourage you, Swords Bard is really fun. My Swords Bard is my favorite character! Honestly I think you might be overthinking at this point. Your character doesn't have to be perfect, you can adjust things after you've played a bit. Don't try to make the perfect character, just jump in and try it out and then see what you like and what may not work out like you thought it would.
Canto alla vita
alla sua bellezza
ad ogni sua ferita
ogni sua carezza!
I sing to life and to its tragic beauty
To pain and to strife, but all that dances through me
The rise and the fall, I've lived through it all!