I’m sorry, but unless you’re homebrewed to have infinitely powerful stats, there’s no way a level 6 character can solo an ancient dragon of any color. Heck, I doubt some 20th level characters could do it. It simply isn’t possible.
Honestly, any character that can move 160' in a round and can use a longbow can solo an ancient green dragon. It is a meaningless discussion because the dragon would just fly into a cave or other cover if they couldn't catch the pesky archer. Dragons mostly don't have the defenses, attacks and spells needed to be really formidable against some of the typical PC tactics.
That has been the most helpful response I have ever read. Linked, logical, on topic, and explained in a way my tired mind actually understood. A genuine thank you!
To prove it made sense to me using scenerio2:
Ranger is invisible and hidden prior to proving his presence. (essentially not in combat) Using stealth check that surpassed the enemy's passive perception, the ranger can move with care. Once he does something dumb like move at full speed, step on a twig etc, the DM should allow the enemy to do an active perception check against the previous stealth check.
If perceived, the enemy knows where the ranger is and can attack with disadvantage.
At some point, the ranger can take a hide action (if available as a bonus action, even better) by re-rollling stealth. If it beats the passive perception of the enemy, the enemy no longer knows the ranger's location. But now that the enemy knows of the ranger, it may do its own active perception check in an attempt to find him.
During at any point the ranger is invisible and hidden, any attack will give away his location allowing him to be attacked with disadvantage.
At any point the ranger is invisible and hidden and the enemy has failed an active perception check, the enemy can still attack where it thinks the ranger is with disadvantage. If ranger isn't in the location, its an automatic miss. If its a hit even with disadvantage, the ranger is no longer hidden, just invisible (enemy can't target with "see" spells and still has disadvantage on attacks against ranger.)
How did I do? Do I finally understand how invisibility works in d&d 5e?
Wow, so much praise! You're very welcome! ^_^
Sounds like you get it, yep! The ranger will eventually be able to Hide as a Bonus Action at level 14 once he has acquired enough combat/stealth experience to do so. Something Rogues can achieve at level 2 but your player is not a rogue, he's a ranger! If he wants to be AMAZING at Stealth, he could always consider a few levels of Rogue to get it quicker and pick up some other nifty abilities (Expertise in Stealth checks? Sneak Attack? The previously-mentioned Cunning Action is also amazing). This would allow him to do it mechanically and also explain thematically that he's training harder in the "Stealth" tactics of Rogues then in the "Martial/Tracking/Casting" abilities of Rangers. Rangers can be Stealthy, sure, but they're nowhere near as specialized as Rogues are, it makes no sense that they would be better at it then them.
Honestly, any character that can move 160' in a round and can use a longbow can solo an ancient green dragon. It is a meaningless discussion because the dragon would just fly into a cave or other cover if they couldn't catch the pesky archer. Dragons mostly don't have the defenses, attacks and spells needed to be really formidable against some of the typical PC tactics.
Unless you use the spellcaster variant and it just casts Haste or Dimension Door. Oddly enough, that variant isn't even listed as changing CR.
Sweet, now that I've been educated in a positive way. Perhaps I should get another mechanic question out of the way.
Somebody mentioned strong winds would give disadvantage when flying. Strong wind in an outside scenerio might also force a land if I'm not mistaken.
Using a wind free scenerio such as flying in large cavern, would a winged flyer within the short range of a bow be attacking with disadvantage?
I'm not certain I understand your question but I'll try to answer the best I can anyway. The strong winds environmental condition from the DMG imposes disadvantage on attack rolls and forces flying creatures that aren't flying using magic (such as the Fly spell) to land at the end of their turn or fall. They're not imposing disadvantage on flight, they're forcing flying creatures to land, period. No roll. If your flying creature does not land, they immediately fall at the end of their turn, take the appropriate falling damage and end up Prone as described in the basic rules here: https://www.dndbeyond.com/sources/basic-rules/adventuring#Falling
Discounting other features/effects that grant advantage/disadvantage (such as attacking a Prone creature, see further down), the only times a ranged weapon attack will give the user disadvantage when attacking with it is described in Chapter 9 of the PHB here:
Some ranged attacks, such as those made with a longbow or a shortbow, have two ranges. The smaller number is the normal range, and the larger number is the long range. Your attack roll has disadvantage when your target is beyond normal range, and you can't attack a target beyond the long range.
When you make a ranged attack with a weapon, a spell, or some other means, you have disadvantage on the attack roll if you are within 5 feet of a hostile creature who can see you and who isn't incapacitated.
Worth nothing, the first point's disadvantage beyond normal range is nullified by the Sharpshooter feat. You still can't shoot anything beyond the Long range though.
The second point's disadvantage would technically be nullified resulting in a normal attack roll if the nearby hostile creature (and there aren't any more around) of the ranged weapon user is also Prone. This is because they'd get both advantage and disadvantage cancelling each other out.
However, it is worth nothing that if the ranged weapon user has the crossbow expert feat, then they no longer get the disadvantage from being within 5 feet of a hostile target, meaning they'd again gain advantage in this situation. Keep in mind that unless they are within 5 feet though, prone targets are always attacked at disadvantage when the creature is prone as specified in the Prone condition here: https://www.dndbeyond.com/sources/basic-rules/appendix-a-conditions#Prone
An attack roll against the (Prone) creature has advantage if the attacker is within 5 feet of the creature. Otherwise, the attack roll has disadvantage.
As for the Strong Winds you were talking about, these can either be environmental or induced by spells, such spells usually include their effect on ranged attacks in their description though such as Control Winds or Wind Wall.
Well, at least that's one mechanic I was using properly. Thank you Kilthor
By any chance could normal flying with official aarakocra cause an effect against the aarakocra that could be considered strong winds? How about when dashing during flight?
to confirm: no spells or weather conditions are creating this strong wind. I'm just thinking the force of regular air currents over the wings in both normal flight and dashed flight.
To me imo that would be a crappy evolution. Imagine evolving the ability to fly or even up the speed a bit just to be forced to land!
Other mechanic in a similar topic, I read somewhere that a monk's Unarmored movement's speed increase also increases all natural methods of movement, such as aarakocra wings. Is it the same for the Mobile feat's speed increase?
Assuming the 100% darkness that the OP is assuming, out of range from the Dragon's blindsight, the Aarakocra would be behind the equivalent of full concealment, literally out of sight. If you duck behind a completely opaque screen, your opponent does not get to continually know where, exactly, behind that screen you are.
In combat, if you don't hide, your opponent does in fact get to do that.
Not that it changes a whole lot overall, but the dragon's effective speed is 200' per round, not 160' unless they're having to burn more than one of their legendary actions on detect.
Other mechanic in a similar topic, I read somewhere that a monk's Unarmored movement's speed increase also increases all natural methods of movement, such as aarakocra wings. Is it the same for the Mobile feat's speed increase?
Pantagruel666 already answered your other question but yes, most speed increases apply to all your movement options unless specified otherwise. This includes the Monks' Unarmored Movement, the Barbarian's Fast Movement, the Mobile Feat, spells such as Longstrider, Haste, etc.
Since this thread is still getting many opinions soley around the first scenerio as if to correct the thought of the OP topic. Please allow me to state with a recap:
After further delving into the mechanic of how invisibility works in d&d 5e and noting the perception strength of the ancient green dragon, I formally state that I don't think the ranger would stand a chance. At level 6 with its dex score of 18, +3 pb and rolling a natural 20, the ranger's stealth check would be at best equal to the dragon's passive perception. Aka, not hidden. and the dragon would only suffer a disadvantage roll. Just few semi-lucky rolls would be enough to kill the ranger.
Even of the ranger did his best and kept the dragon awake for about a week using a combination of guerilla tactics and the spell Alarm just to disturb its long rest in an attempt to get dragon to the point of level 5 exhaustion, the dragon would outsmart the ranger or make the attempt futile in some way or the ranger would need rest (if not found and squished by then) and darn near resets all the effort.
Even of the ranger were to have an aerial fight in bright daylight from the full 600ft away with Mobile feat (if attemped at level 8 with the newly added feat) to have the same flight speed as the dragon, firing only when the dragon was a full 600ft away, that ac would be too tough to beat before running out of arrows. Even before the arrows, the ranger would run out of dashes before the dragon would and the dragon would wreck the ranger.
And look at that. Viable RAW reasons why the dragon would win hands down which are supported by RAI play. So simple.
The section makes it clear that if you are not in line of sight or are otherwise not visible, the situation is the same as if you successfully hid. If your opponent cannot see you, it is treated as if your opponent cannot see you, even if they saw you before you turned invisible or ducked into the darkness.
Not sure what your point is? Yes, if your opponent can't see you, it is treated as if your opponent can't see you. That means they have disadvantage on attacks and you have advantage on attacks, but unless they hide, you still know their location.
Not that it changes a whole lot overall, but the dragon's effective speed is 200' per round, not 160' unless they're having to burn more than one of their legendary actions on detect.
So you're saying just from speed alone, the dragon cannot lose in an open air fight at night?
Not that it changes a whole lot overall, but the dragon's effective speed is 200' per round, not 160' unless they're having to burn more than one of their legendary actions on detect.
So you're saying just from speed alone, the dragon cannot lose in an open air fight at night?
Against a 6th level ranger plinking at it with a normal bow? That is the context here, after all... And the alternative being presented is that the low level character cannot lose....
And the dragon flies away. How many rounds do you want to lose ground chasing the dragon?
I get that the OP wants the ranger to win and is going out of their way to make a situation where they think that is the only logical conclusion. Until the dragon flies away...
"I get that the OP wants the ranger to win and is going out of their way to make a situation where they think that is the only logical conclusion. Until the dragon flies away..."
As the OP I would like to point out that in response#59, I cleary indicated that I misunderstood the mechanics of invisibility and shear power of the dragon's stat block, so I revised that the ranger would NOT have stood a chance, essentially making this entire thread a mute point other than a learning experience.
All that power before even taking into consideration the behavioural strategy of the dragon.
For those that kept saying I was dimissing the behaviour of the dragon. I find It good strategy to know if there's a possiblity of win in the lack of strategy scenerios. Any simple variable added to the calculations has proven time and time again in history to tip the balance of power. But when it comes right down to it and either party (or a third party) screws up their plans of strategy, it essentially becomes stat block vs stat block. And a wise person, would need to know how to act best accordingly.
~a philosophy, not a rule
This pairs well with the concept of picking a fight you know you'll win. Stat block vs stat block, the ranger would say "Hell no!" and leave the dragon alone.
"I get that the OP wants the ranger to win and is going out of their way to make a situation where they think that is the only logical conclusion. Until the dragon flies away..."
As the OP I would like to point out that in response#59, I cleary indicated that I misunderstood the mechanics of invisibility and shear power of the dragon's stat block, so I revised that the ranger would NOT have stood a chance, essentially making this entire thread a mute point other than a learning experience.
All that power before even taking into consideration the behavioural strategy of the dragon.
For those that kept saying I was dimissing the behaviour of the dragon. I find It good strategy to know if there's a possiblity of win in the lack of strategy scenerios. Any simple variable added to the calculations has proven time and time again in history to tip the balance of power. But when it comes right down to it and either party (or a third party) screws up their plans of strategy, it essentially becomes stat block vs stat block. And a wise person, would need to know how to act best accordingly.
~a philosophy, not a rule
This pairs well with the concept of picking a fight you know you'll win. Stat block vs stat block, the ranger would say "Hell no!" and leave the dragon alone.
I mean I'd argue it was a learning experience, you admitted yourself in the beginning you were approaching this with knowledge more from previous editions and you did come out with learning of how invisibility works RAW. You also than acknowledged this at a previous point and than tried to ask things in a different direction (which I apologize I can't quite recall what it was at this time).
Most of the issues I'd see at this point is people are either reading too deep into things or people responding without reading the bulk of the thread other than either the title or the OP. In either case, take the learned knowledge and maybe ignore the silliness, that at least would be my advice.
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Honestly, any character that can move 160' in a round and can use a longbow can solo an ancient green dragon. It is a meaningless discussion because the dragon would just fly into a cave or other cover if they couldn't catch the pesky archer. Dragons mostly don't have the defenses, attacks and spells needed to be really formidable against some of the typical PC tactics.
Wow, so much praise! You're very welcome! ^_^
Sounds like you get it, yep! The ranger will eventually be able to Hide as a Bonus Action at level 14 once he has acquired enough combat/stealth experience to do so. Something Rogues can achieve at level 2 but your player is not a rogue, he's a ranger! If he wants to be AMAZING at Stealth, he could always consider a few levels of Rogue to get it quicker and pick up some other nifty abilities (Expertise in Stealth checks? Sneak Attack? The previously-mentioned Cunning Action is also amazing). This would allow him to do it mechanically and also explain thematically that he's training harder in the "Stealth" tactics of Rogues then in the "Martial/Tracking/Casting" abilities of Rangers. Rangers can be Stealthy, sure, but they're nowhere near as specialized as Rogues are, it makes no sense that they would be better at it then them.
Unless you use the spellcaster variant and it just casts Haste or Dimension Door. Oddly enough, that variant isn't even listed as changing CR.
@ Kithor response 47
Sweet, now that I've been educated in a positive way. Perhaps I should get another mechanic question out of the way.
Somebody mentioned strong winds would give disadvantage when flying. Strong wind in an outside scenerio might also force a land if I'm not mistaken.
Using a wind free scenerio such as flying in large cavern, would a winged flyer within the short range of a bow be attacking with disadvantage?
I'm not certain I understand your question but I'll try to answer the best I can anyway. The strong winds environmental condition from the DMG imposes disadvantage on attack rolls and forces flying creatures that aren't flying using magic (such as the Fly spell) to land at the end of their turn or fall. They're not imposing disadvantage on flight, they're forcing flying creatures to land, period. No roll. If your flying creature does not land, they immediately fall at the end of their turn, take the appropriate falling damage and end up Prone as described in the basic rules here: https://www.dndbeyond.com/sources/basic-rules/adventuring#Falling
Discounting other features/effects that grant advantage/disadvantage (such as attacking a Prone creature, see further down), the only times a ranged weapon attack will give the user disadvantage when attacking with it is described in Chapter 9 of the PHB here:
https://www.dndbeyond.com/sources/phb/combat#RangedAttacks
In short, these are:
Worth nothing, the first point's disadvantage beyond normal range is nullified by the Sharpshooter feat. You still can't shoot anything beyond the Long range though.
The second point's disadvantage would technically be nullified resulting in a normal attack roll if the nearby hostile creature (and there aren't any more around) of the ranged weapon user is also Prone. This is because they'd get both advantage and disadvantage cancelling each other out.
However, it is worth nothing that if the ranged weapon user has the crossbow expert feat, then they no longer get the disadvantage from being within 5 feet of a hostile target, meaning they'd again gain advantage in this situation. Keep in mind that unless they are within 5 feet though, prone targets are always attacked at disadvantage when the creature is prone as specified in the Prone condition here: https://www.dndbeyond.com/sources/basic-rules/appendix-a-conditions#Prone
As for the Strong Winds you were talking about, these can either be environmental or induced by spells, such spells usually include their effect on ranged attacks in their description though such as Control Winds or Wind Wall.
Hope this helps!
Well, at least that's one mechanic I was using properly. Thank you Kilthor
By any chance could normal flying with official aarakocra cause an effect against the aarakocra that could be considered strong winds? How about when dashing during flight?
to confirm: no spells or weather conditions are creating this strong wind. I'm just thinking the force of regular air currents over the wings in both normal flight and dashed flight.
To me imo that would be a crappy evolution. Imagine evolving the ability to fly or even up the speed a bit just to be forced to land!
Other mechanic in a similar topic, I read somewhere that a monk's Unarmored movement's speed increase also increases all natural methods of movement, such as aarakocra wings. Is it the same for the Mobile feat's speed increase?
Not as a free effect, but you can interpret a dragon's wing attack as strong winds, and if it knocks a flying creature prone that creature will fall.
I'm surprised the homebrew Arakroa can't already do Hide as a Bonus Action, it seems to be so overpowered in other ways.
In combat, if you don't hide, your opponent does in fact get to do that.
Not that it changes a whole lot overall, but the dragon's effective speed is 200' per round, not 160' unless they're having to burn more than one of their legendary actions on detect.
Pantagruel666 already answered your other question but yes, most speed increases apply to all your movement options unless specified otherwise. This includes the Monks' Unarmored Movement, the Barbarian's Fast Movement, the Mobile Feat, spells such as Longstrider, Haste, etc.
Since this thread is still getting many opinions soley around the first scenerio as if to correct the thought of the OP topic. Please allow me to state with a recap:
After further delving into the mechanic of how invisibility works in d&d 5e and noting the perception strength of the ancient green dragon, I formally state that I don't think the ranger would stand a chance. At level 6 with its dex score of 18, +3 pb and rolling a natural 20, the ranger's stealth check would be at best equal to the dragon's passive perception. Aka, not hidden. and the dragon would only suffer a disadvantage roll. Just few semi-lucky rolls would be enough to kill the ranger.
Even of the ranger did his best and kept the dragon awake for about a week using a combination of guerilla tactics and the spell Alarm just to disturb its long rest in an attempt to get dragon to the point of level 5 exhaustion, the dragon would outsmart the ranger or make the attempt futile in some way or the ranger would need rest (if not found and squished by then) and darn near resets all the effort.
Even of the ranger were to have an aerial fight in bright daylight from the full 600ft away with Mobile feat (if attemped at level 8 with the newly added feat) to have the same flight speed as the dragon, firing only when the dragon was a full 600ft away, that ac would be too tough to beat before running out of arrows. Even before the arrows, the ranger would run out of dashes before the dragon would and the dragon would wreck the ranger.
And look at that. Viable RAW reasons why the dragon would win hands down which are supported by RAI play. So simple.
Not sure what your point is? Yes, if your opponent can't see you, it is treated as if your opponent can't see you. That means they have disadvantage on attacks and you have advantage on attacks, but unless they hide, you still know their location.
So you're saying just from speed alone, the dragon cannot lose in an open air fight at night?
And the dragon flies away. How many rounds do you want to lose ground chasing the dragon?
I get that the OP wants the ranger to win and is going out of their way to make a situation where they think that is the only logical conclusion. Until the dragon flies away...
@ WolfTheBees
"I get that the OP wants the ranger to win and is going out of their way to make a situation where they think that is the only logical conclusion. Until the dragon flies away..."
As the OP I would like to point out that in response#59, I cleary indicated that I misunderstood the mechanics of invisibility and shear power of the dragon's stat block, so I revised that the ranger would NOT have stood a chance, essentially making this entire thread a mute point other than a learning experience.
All that power before even taking into consideration the behavioural strategy of the dragon.
For those that kept saying I was dimissing the behaviour of the dragon. I find It good strategy to know if there's a possiblity of win in the lack of strategy scenerios. Any simple variable added to the calculations has proven time and time again in history to tip the balance of power. But when it comes right down to it and either party (or a third party) screws up their plans of strategy, it essentially becomes stat block vs stat block. And a wise person, would need to know how to act best accordingly.
~a philosophy, not a rule
This pairs well with the concept of picking a fight you know you'll win. Stat block vs stat block, the ranger would say "Hell no!" and leave the dragon alone.
I mean I'd argue it was a learning experience, you admitted yourself in the beginning you were approaching this with knowledge more from previous editions and you did come out with learning of how invisibility works RAW. You also than acknowledged this at a previous point and than tried to ask things in a different direction (which I apologize I can't quite recall what it was at this time).
Most of the issues I'd see at this point is people are either reading too deep into things or people responding without reading the bulk of the thread other than either the title or the OP. In either case, take the learned knowledge and maybe ignore the silliness, that at least would be my advice.