Playing a one-shot with some friends. Setting takes place in our main Campaign, We're playing some Vampires that are all decked out. I've been wanting to try a Sorcadin for awhile, but never knew how to go about it.
This is a very OP / High Level game, so don't be afraid of going a bit Min-Max.
Only exception is I'm looking to play either a Half-Elf, Aasimar, Custom Lineage or Elf for the character I have in mind.
So far I think I'm going for a Crit Build, so perhaps a dip into Hexblade might be a good idea.
I strongly advice against going for a 3rd class. Typically you want at least 3 levels of Paladin to get the Sacred Oath, and you will likely want your 9th level spell as a Sorceror, not to mention an extra meta-magic. Yes, the Warlock does help you a bit with melee combat, but you are already smiting for +5d8 for much of the combat. While the hexblade's curse is nice, paladins can also cast a smite spell for a similar, if not quite as good effect, using the same bonus action. Walocks builds usually depend on the Invocations, which are nice, but require giving up even more Sorceror stuff, including an ASI.
If you really like the Warlock, consider going Sorlock, which can do an awful lot. You have the Eldritch blast build, plus the versatility of using a weapon.
If you're going for Crit-Fishing, I recommend Oath of Vengeance... once-per-shortrest you can use a bonus action to give yourself concentration-free Advantage against a single target for a full minute. And that advantage applies to ALL attack rolls, not just weapon attacks or attacks with specifically STR or any other qualifier... if it's an attack roll, you have advantage on it.
I'm not totally sure what Sorcerer Subclass to take, but here's the first thing that comes to mind... Take a Draconic Bloodline Sorcerer... the Subclass grants extra HP per level up, which will make up for the d6 hitdie you get as a sorcerer. Pick a Draconic Lineage with Fire (Brass, Red, or Gold, whichever looks coolest with the character you have in mind), then take the Elemental Adept feat to make up for the fact that so many creatures are resistant to fire. Now this is your bread and butter combo: Find the biggest dude on the battlefield and hit them with your Vow of Enmity to gain advantage on them. Then hit them with Scorching Ray... you can upcast to unleash an insane number of rays of fire at your target, all at advantage, plus a boost of damage for being a sorcerer, and Elemental Adept means you can treat any 1 rolled on your damage die as a 2, which will add up. After that first round, use Quickened Spell to cast Scorching Ray as a bonus action, then use your action to cast Firebolt, and if you really want to tack on some extra damage, use Twinned Spell on that Firebolt to lob an extra blast of fire at some poor schmuck in addition to your primary target.
There are also two other feats that you would benefit from. Elven Accuracy turns all those advantage attacks into triple advantage, drastically increasing your odds of landing a critical hit. The other feat I would recommend is Fey-Touched... Misty Step is nice, but what you really want is to learn the spells Hex or Hunter's Mark (whichever you think fits your character better). This tacks on an additional d6 of damage with all of these big nasty attacks you're dropping all over the place. I recommend Fey-Touched over Magic Initiate because Fey-Touched teaches you the spells it grants outright, allowing you to cast them using spell slots. Although Magic Initiate does have the advantage of being able to snag Eldritch Blast and Hex from Warlock without needing to dip into the class, which can be swapped for Firebolt as your twinned spell of choice, but you'll only get one shot at using your Hex and if you lose concentration it's gone until your next long rest.
Alright, We are definitely of the same mind. I picked up the Elven Accuracy Feat as well as Fey Touched.
But I think your recommendation of Oath of Vengeance is excellent. Combined with Elven it will really pump those crits.
I went sort of crazy. But essentially; 6 Paladin [Vengence] - 3 Fighter [Echo] - and 11 Sorcerer [Divine Soul]
The idea is for very high Alpha Damage, but then able to fall back and provide support when damage is dished out.
Not sure if I should dial back Sorcerer levels and put them into Pally and one into Fighter for even more feats. But so far my Stats aren't anything to worry about. I got really good ones.
Sorcerer, more than any other class in your build, relies on class level for its most important features. Your levels decide how many sorcery points you have, and how many metamagic options you gain access to. You also get a lot more spell slots, which you can still use freely on Paladin smites.
Honestly, Divine Soul is probably the best Sorcerer subclass, so I think that's a good choice. Elven Accuracy and Fey Touched are already a tasty combination of feats that pair well with your build. I think any other feature you want to focus on could be accomplished by smart spell choices. I think this build would be kind of a pain to play in a long-term campaign, but for a one-shot where you get to jump straight to level 20 it's got some pretty cool bonuses. Echo Knight is an interesting combo with this build... it pairs well with a Sorcerer-focused build, since it provides you with defensive options, since you can still land melee attacks while you stay safely outside of the enemy's range.
Playing a one-shot with some friends. Setting takes place in our main Campaign, We're playing some Vampires that are all decked out. I've been wanting to try a Sorcadin for awhile, but never knew how to go about it.
This is a very OP / High Level game, so don't be afraid of going a bit Min-Max.
Only exception is I'm looking to play either a Half-Elf, Aasimar, Custom Lineage or Elf for the character I have in mind.
So far I think I'm going for a Crit Build, so perhaps a dip into Hexblade might be a good idea.
The first question you need to answer is how many Paladin levels you want to take, and there are very few answers that make credible sense: 2 and 6 are basically it. 2 gets you Smite, which is the offensive reason to make a Sorcadin, while 6 gets you the looney-tunes good Aura of Protection, the defensive reason to make a Sorcadin - you'll also get Extra Attack, but since it can't be combined with Cast a Spell, this might not be useful to you if e.g. you're focusing on Booming Blade and Green-Flame Blade. You only need to decide on an Oath if you're taking 6 Paladin levels.
The dip into Hexblade depends on your statline, which is tightly constrained due to the mandatory STR requirement for Paladins. If you roll a Half-Elf (which is ideal for MAD builds), you can do any of the following:
STR 17/CON 16/CHA 16: Standard Paladin statline. You'll want to focus on spells that don't care about your Charisma. You need to put at least 2 ASIs into Strength (usually 1 full ASI and 1 half-feat in the form of Skill Expert). (No Hexblade, No Elven Advantage)
STR 16/CON 16/CHA 17: Pays the Strength tax for multiclassing and for wearing Plate and for better Str saves and Athletics checks, but needs Hexblade to hit in melee, since you'll be focusing on Charisma - +2 Charisma and a half-feat, probably Elven Accuracy, Fey-Touched, or Skill Expert.
STR 13/CON 16/CHA 16/DEX 14/WIS 9: Pays the Strength tax, then leans into Dexterity. Useful for sword-and-board (usually the best Sorcadins are this anyway) with a rapier or whip. You can re-arrange the 14 if you want - this arrangement optimizes your AC for a Breastplate or Half-Plate, but you can put the 14 in Charisma for more melee accuracy, or in Con to sacrifice defense for more offense. The DEX 14 array is the only one where it really makes sense to bother with Hexblade 1. I'll include the others below.
STR 13/CON 16/CHA 14/DEX 16/WIS 9 (No Hexblade) - Pays Str tax for multiclassing, hits with Dex.
STR 13/CON 14/CHA 16/DEX 16/WIS 9 (No Hexblade) - As above.
Builds 2 and 3 are where you want Hexblade to let you swing with your Charisma in melee. Remember, a 1-dip in Hexblade gets you sword-and-board, but you need a 3-dip to wield a Greatsword or Glaive with your Charisma. As for Sorcerous Origin, it's basically impossible to beat Divine Soul, although Clockwork Soul is pretty good.
It really depends how you want to build and how you envision your character.
A more "caster-like" approach wouldn't really need any Paladin levels to begin with. If you plan to go into melee though and won't really cast high level spells as much as use them for Smite-fuel, the sorcerer levels aren't giving you much outside more spell slots and sorcery points past a certain level.
Here's an idea I had for a purely offensive-based two-handed GWM hexblade/paladin/sorcerer build that capitalizes on crit-fishing and hitting/smiting as hard as possible:
Paladin 2:
Access to Fighting Style
Access to Divine Smite
Access to limited spell casting/slots
Explanation: You're really here just for the Divine Smite ability, the later abilities are nice but if you want to go "pure offense", they're not needed and very quickly hinder your offensive potential by restricting your levels in the next two classes.
Warlock (Hexblade) 5+ but ideally 11+ for 3x 5th level slots:
Unlock Pact Boon (Pact of Blade)
Invocations (the mandatory ones IMO):
Improved Pact Weapon: This allows you to use a two-hander as your pact Weapon and, crucially, use it as your Hex weapon as well, allowing you to use it with both GWM and Elven Accuracy since it uses your Charisma and not your STR. This also frees up your STR stat a bit, especially if mounted since you can keep it at 13 and call it a day even in heavy armor without any penalty.
Devil's Sight: This, along with the Darkness spell will be the easiest way for you to have constant advantage. Cheesy? Sure! Annoying to teammates? It can be, but that's really usually true only for ranged attackers since melee ones will not get advantage/disadvantage since it cancels out for both them and the enemy inside your Darkness. If it annoys them, they can always target something else!
Eldritch Smite: This is the second reason you went up to 5th level Warlock. Doubling-down on those sweet sweet smites using your Warlock spell slots. These can go up to 6d8 unlike your regular smites and you can use both of them in one attack. When you crit, if you spend a 4th level slot + a 5th level warlock slot, you're dealing your weapon's damage x2 + 10d8 + 12d8 for an average of over 100 dmg. The prone condition on your target for another way to gain easy advantage without a save is just a bonus.
Thirsting Blade: Your equivalent of Extra Attack.
If you go up to 10 here, you get Armor of Hexes which is amazing and if you go up to 14, you can keep your Hexblade's Curse going for an entire encounter, shuffling it around to different targets.
Sorcerer (4+):
Divine Soul, Shadow Sorcerer, Draconic all work here. Just depends which features/spells you like better but you're mostly here for the spell slots and metamagic in case you want to cast a quickened Hold Person then go to town for auto-crits and getting that 100+ damage per attack twice in the same round for over 200 dmg on average in that one round.
Keeping all this in mind, here are several suggested builds:
Pal 6/Hex 14 if you don't mind losing access to Sorc spells and metamagic in exchange for a better hit die and better defensive features while also retaining Master of Hexes.
Pal 2/Hex 14/Sorc 4 to capitalize on Hexblade's Curse letting you get crits on 19-20 for the entire encounter, you don't get 4th level pally slots with this though but you should crit more often
Pal 2/Hex 7/Sorc 11 would also work very well. You won't get as much damage from the Eldritch Smites and no Master of Hexes but you'll get more slots and SP to work with for Quickened Hold Person auto-crits which more then compensates as long as your enemy can actually be affected by Hold Person. You do get "Hold Monster" otherwise but its obviously much more expensive from a ressource perspective.
Pal 13/Hex 7, again, if you don't mind not getting metamagic and Sorc spells/slots, this is also a popular combination for 4th level slots/spells from both Pally and Warlock + all the Pally goodies. You do lose out on that one Warlock slot which also goes down a notch and no master of Hexes but you get many Pally abilities (mostly defensive though) to compensate
Spell slots = 4/3/3/1, access to 4th level spells from both spell lists + 2x 4th level Warlock slots
The main thing to keep in mind for this kind of double-smite crit-fishing build is you NEED Hexblade 5 for Thisting Blade (unless going Paladin 5+), Improved Pact Weapon and Eldritch Smite and you need Paladin 2. Everything else is up to you.
In all of these, the sorc options are my favorite. The sorc-less Pal 6/Hex 14 option works effectively mostly the same but you'll have less slots to work with, no metamagic for quickened Hold Person (though you still do get it as a Vengeance Pally) and similar shenanigans. Auto-crit on a character like this is VERY powerful.
For stats using point-buy and assuming Custom Lineage with your DM letting you use Elven Accuracy (mine did):
STR: 13 DEX: 10 CON: 14 or 15 (if you want to grab a half-feat such as Resilient Con or something else) INT: 10 or 8 WIS: 10 CHA: 15 +2 racial
For ASIs:
Free feat: Elven Accuracy (CHA 18) 1st ASI: Cha +2 (CHA 20) 2nd ASI: Polearm Master 3rd and potential 4th ASI: Great Weapon Master/Sentinel/CON half-feat if you started with CON 15 to bring it up to 16.
Keep in mind that none of these are "casters" per say. They're really Gish characters, they will provide some spellcasting utility and some spells are always useful but they're primary means of damage is attacking in melee and fish for crits to blow their load onto that poor enemy.
Playing a one-shot with some friends. Setting takes place in our main Campaign, We're playing some Vampires that are all decked out. I've been wanting to try a Sorcadin for awhile, but never knew how to go about it.
This is a very OP / High Level game, so don't be afraid of going a bit Min-Max.
Only exception is I'm looking to play either a Half-Elf, Aasimar, Custom Lineage or Elf for the character I have in mind.
So far I think I'm going for a Crit Build, so perhaps a dip into Hexblade might be a good idea.
I strongly advice against going for a 3rd class. Typically you want at least 3 levels of Paladin to get the Sacred Oath, and you will likely want your 9th level spell as a Sorceror, not to mention an extra meta-magic. Yes, the Warlock does help you a bit with melee combat, but you are already smiting for +5d8 for much of the combat. While the hexblade's curse is nice, paladins can also cast a smite spell for a similar, if not quite as good effect, using the same bonus action. Walocks builds usually depend on the Invocations, which are nice, but require giving up even more Sorceror stuff, including an ASI.
If you really like the Warlock, consider going Sorlock, which can do an awful lot. You have the Eldritch blast build, plus the versatility of using a weapon.
If you're going for Crit-Fishing, I recommend Oath of Vengeance... once-per-shortrest you can use a bonus action to give yourself concentration-free Advantage against a single target for a full minute. And that advantage applies to ALL attack rolls, not just weapon attacks or attacks with specifically STR or any other qualifier... if it's an attack roll, you have advantage on it.
I'm not totally sure what Sorcerer Subclass to take, but here's the first thing that comes to mind... Take a Draconic Bloodline Sorcerer... the Subclass grants extra HP per level up, which will make up for the d6 hitdie you get as a sorcerer. Pick a Draconic Lineage with Fire (Brass, Red, or Gold, whichever looks coolest with the character you have in mind), then take the Elemental Adept feat to make up for the fact that so many creatures are resistant to fire. Now this is your bread and butter combo: Find the biggest dude on the battlefield and hit them with your Vow of Enmity to gain advantage on them. Then hit them with Scorching Ray... you can upcast to unleash an insane number of rays of fire at your target, all at advantage, plus a boost of damage for being a sorcerer, and Elemental Adept means you can treat any 1 rolled on your damage die as a 2, which will add up. After that first round, use Quickened Spell to cast Scorching Ray as a bonus action, then use your action to cast Firebolt, and if you really want to tack on some extra damage, use Twinned Spell on that Firebolt to lob an extra blast of fire at some poor schmuck in addition to your primary target.
There are also two other feats that you would benefit from. Elven Accuracy turns all those advantage attacks into triple advantage, drastically increasing your odds of landing a critical hit. The other feat I would recommend is Fey-Touched... Misty Step is nice, but what you really want is to learn the spells Hex or Hunter's Mark (whichever you think fits your character better). This tacks on an additional d6 of damage with all of these big nasty attacks you're dropping all over the place. I recommend Fey-Touched over Magic Initiate because Fey-Touched teaches you the spells it grants outright, allowing you to cast them using spell slots. Although Magic Initiate does have the advantage of being able to snag Eldritch Blast and Hex from Warlock without needing to dip into the class, which can be swapped for Firebolt as your twinned spell of choice, but you'll only get one shot at using your Hex and if you lose concentration it's gone until your next long rest.
Watch Crits for Breakfast, an adults-only RP-Heavy Roll20 Livestream at twitch.tv/afterdisbooty
And now you too can play with the amazing art and assets we use in Roll20 for our campaign at Hazel's Emporium
Alright, We are definitely of the same mind. I picked up the Elven Accuracy Feat as well as Fey Touched.
But I think your recommendation of Oath of Vengeance is excellent. Combined with Elven it will really pump those crits.
I went sort of crazy. But essentially; 6 Paladin [Vengence] - 3 Fighter [Echo] - and 11 Sorcerer [Divine Soul]
The idea is for very high Alpha Damage, but then able to fall back and provide support when damage is dished out.
Not sure if I should dial back Sorcerer levels and put them into Pally and one into Fighter for even more feats. But so far my Stats aren't anything to worry about. I got really good ones.
Sorcerer, more than any other class in your build, relies on class level for its most important features. Your levels decide how many sorcery points you have, and how many metamagic options you gain access to. You also get a lot more spell slots, which you can still use freely on Paladin smites.
Honestly, Divine Soul is probably the best Sorcerer subclass, so I think that's a good choice. Elven Accuracy and Fey Touched are already a tasty combination of feats that pair well with your build. I think any other feature you want to focus on could be accomplished by smart spell choices. I think this build would be kind of a pain to play in a long-term campaign, but for a one-shot where you get to jump straight to level 20 it's got some pretty cool bonuses. Echo Knight is an interesting combo with this build... it pairs well with a Sorcerer-focused build, since it provides you with defensive options, since you can still land melee attacks while you stay safely outside of the enemy's range.
Watch Crits for Breakfast, an adults-only RP-Heavy Roll20 Livestream at twitch.tv/afterdisbooty
And now you too can play with the amazing art and assets we use in Roll20 for our campaign at Hazel's Emporium
Alright, Then I'm settled on what I'm going to play. I appreciate the help :) Thank you
The first question you need to answer is how many Paladin levels you want to take, and there are very few answers that make credible sense: 2 and 6 are basically it. 2 gets you Smite, which is the offensive reason to make a Sorcadin, while 6 gets you the looney-tunes good Aura of Protection, the defensive reason to make a Sorcadin - you'll also get Extra Attack, but since it can't be combined with Cast a Spell, this might not be useful to you if e.g. you're focusing on Booming Blade and Green-Flame Blade. You only need to decide on an Oath if you're taking 6 Paladin levels.
The dip into Hexblade depends on your statline, which is tightly constrained due to the mandatory STR requirement for Paladins. If you roll a Half-Elf (which is ideal for MAD builds), you can do any of the following:
Builds 2 and 3 are where you want Hexblade to let you swing with your Charisma in melee. Remember, a 1-dip in Hexblade gets you sword-and-board, but you need a 3-dip to wield a Greatsword or Glaive with your Charisma. As for Sorcerous Origin, it's basically impossible to beat Divine Soul, although Clockwork Soul is pretty good.
It really depends how you want to build and how you envision your character.
A more "caster-like" approach wouldn't really need any Paladin levels to begin with. If you plan to go into melee though and won't really cast high level spells as much as use them for Smite-fuel, the sorcerer levels aren't giving you much outside more spell slots and sorcery points past a certain level.
Here's an idea I had for a purely offensive-based two-handed GWM hexblade/paladin/sorcerer build that capitalizes on crit-fishing and hitting/smiting as hard as possible:
Paladin 2:
Explanation: You're really here just for the Divine Smite ability, the later abilities are nice but if you want to go "pure offense", they're not needed and very quickly hinder your offensive potential by restricting your levels in the next two classes.
Warlock (Hexblade) 5+ but ideally 11+ for 3x 5th level slots:
Sorcerer (4+):
Keeping all this in mind, here are several suggested builds:
The main thing to keep in mind for this kind of double-smite crit-fishing build is you NEED Hexblade 5 for Thisting Blade (unless going Paladin 5+), Improved Pact Weapon and Eldritch Smite and you need Paladin 2. Everything else is up to you.
In all of these, the sorc options are my favorite. The sorc-less Pal 6/Hex 14 option works effectively mostly the same but you'll have less slots to work with, no metamagic for quickened Hold Person (though you still do get it as a Vengeance Pally) and similar shenanigans. Auto-crit on a character like this is VERY powerful.
For stats using point-buy and assuming Custom Lineage with your DM letting you use Elven Accuracy (mine did):
STR: 13
DEX: 10
CON: 14 or 15 (if you want to grab a half-feat such as Resilient Con or something else)
INT: 10 or 8
WIS: 10
CHA: 15 +2 racial
For ASIs:
Free feat: Elven Accuracy (CHA 18)
1st ASI: Cha +2 (CHA 20)
2nd ASI: Polearm Master
3rd and potential 4th ASI: Great Weapon Master/Sentinel/CON half-feat if you started with CON 15 to bring it up to 16.
Keep in mind that none of these are "casters" per say. They're really Gish characters, they will provide some spellcasting utility and some spells are always useful but they're primary means of damage is attacking in melee and fish for crits to blow their load onto that poor enemy.