either +3 or +2 and +1 custom lineage if your DM allows it (with use of half feat bonus);
either +2 and +1 or 3*+1 Variant Human (with use of half feat bonus), Van Richten's Lineages (option), Fairy Harengon;
3*+1 Triton;
+2 Dwarf, Elf, Gnome, Genasi, Aasimar, Kobold;
1*+1 Gith.
Mountain Dwarves, exceptionally, get a +2 to str and +2 con (but, personally, pls consider avoiding abuse of Tasha's custom lineage which might potentially permit dumping str and/or con while rapidly maxing other stats. Nuts!)
(These primary abilities are those needed at score 13 or above for multiclassing).
So, for favourite single or multiclass builds, which stats do folks max, buff or dump?
Would there be a difference in optimal point buy models between the creation of a 1st lev character and, say, a 19th lev fighter with 7 class feature ASIs?
(These primary abilities are those needed at score 13 or above for multiclassing).
So, for favourite single or multiclass builds, which stats do folks max, buff or dump?
Would there be a difference in optimal point buy models between the creation of a 1st lev character and, say, a 19th lev fighter with 7 class feature ASIs?
Monk should be DEX & WIS. The STR and DEX are their saving throws.
I would be in agreement with Ir0ns0ul and go more for the 15,15,14,10,8,8 but it really depends on the concept I’m going for.
It's perhaps belatedly beginning to sound good. I don't think I've ever dumped more than one stat, probably due to not wanting to have greater weaknesses than commoners.
But of course, on the topic of saving throws, the Resilient feat could belatedly be brought in to amply cover those weaknesses.
A 15,15,14,10,8,8 build on the basis of a suitably matched +2,+1 race would need 5 ASIs or 4 ASIs and a couple of half feats to get to a 20,20,14,10,8,8 build.
At what stage, if at all, would people cut in to add in the resilient feat to plug potential weaknesses or do people look for other ways to save their throws or to cover them in events of failure?
I'm with most others, with the 15 15 14 10 8 8. Admittedly on a few, INTENDED to be min/maxed, I've done the 15 15 15 route. So far as saves go, I have tried to use the 3rd stat as one of the "big" saves that my class maybe didn't give me proficiency in. On my Monk, I was in love with the Str proficiency, because it was a near dump stat for him. He is far from min/max, though and not even the 15 15 14 split, I think I only had one set to 15 when i created him, because he had somewhat of a personality before I made him, so I needed his stats to meet certain standards I had set for him, lol. Min/max would have been a big help for him (we're 11 now, so I am past the painful part) as I drive Dex up and left Wis lower, not realizing how important getting my DC up would be for my effectiveness in fights.
In all, I think you'll see most choose lower on the chart, with a couple, at least, "dump stats" since pretty much any character you could think of (well, interesting characters, anyway) should have a part of their being that's below average. Couple low stats, couple high ones and the rest kind of middling.
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Talk to your Players.Talk to your DM. If more people used this advice, there would be 24.74% fewer threads on Tactics, Rules and DM discussions.
Just looking through my characters initial stats (though most started at level 3 and many were pre Tasha's):
Generally I don't mind dumping Int, Cha or Str but less keen on dumping Wis and Dex and they are important for saving throws and skils (often everyone needs to roll stealth / perception but only one needs to roll history or persuasion)
8/15+2/15+1/8/15/8 Goblin Monk my only every character with 3 dumped stats, Diamond soul helped a lot with saves once I got it
8/14/14+2/12/15/8 Simic Hybrid (light) cleric 14 Dex for AC and wanted to be reasonable at religion and arcana
8/15+1/14/10/13+1/12+2 Half Elf Swashbuckler Couldn't decide whether Con, Wis or Cha should be and ended up having them all +2, only realised after if was standard array
8/14/15+1/14+2/12/8 Gnome Armorer Artificer (UA), in the UA armorer strength was useless as you could use Int for everything
13+1/12/13+1/8/12/15+2 Half Elf Paladin with one level of hexblade, hexblade means I only needed str for movement in heavy armor, at level 4 I took a split ASI so I could wear plate
8/13+1/15+1/15+1/12/8 vHuman War Wizard (took resiliant Con at level 1 hence the extra +1)
11/12/13+1/12/15+2+1/10 Tortle stars druid, the DM gave a free feat and I went with observent
It's perhaps belatedly beginning to sound good. I don't think I've ever dumped more than one stat, probably due to not wanting to have greater weaknesses than commoners.
But of course, on the topic of saving throws, the Resilient feat could belatedly be brought in to amply cover those weaknesses.
A 15,15,14,10,8,8 build on the basis of a suitably matched +2,+1 race would only need 1 ASI and a half feat to get to a 20,20,14,10,8,8 build.
At what stage, if at all, do people start adding in the resilient feat to plug potential weaknesses or do people look for other ways to save their throws or to cover them in events of failure?
You can only use resiliant feat once (elemental adept is the only feat you can currently take multiple times) so it can only cover one weakness, and at least on spell casters I use it on a com (with a positive modifier) to help bolster concentration saves. As mentioned above I tend to only dump stats where the save is less important. As far as other ways to cope with dealing with poor saving throws standing close to the paladin is usually a good move.
A 15/15/14/10/8/8 build after racial bonuses can be 17/16/14/10/8/8 and it takes 1ASI and a half feat to get to 20/16/14/10/8/8. To get to 20/20/14/10/8/8 requires 3 ASIs and a half feat.
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Base point buy score models, from middling to min-maxed, include:
13 13 13 12 12 12 = 75;
13 13 13 13 12 11 = 75, (for the vanilla human's optimal vanilla);
14 13 13 12 12 10 = 74;
14 14 13 12 10 10 = 73, (or 15 13 13 13 11 8 for a slightly nuts vanilla variant);
15 14 13 12 10 8 = 72, (standard array);
15 14 14 12 8 8 = 71;
15 15 14 10 8 8 = 70;
15 15 15 8 8 8 = 69 (with maximised maximums and minimums).
Which models, or variants thereof, do you use with which races/race variants and classes/subclasses? What are your optimal approaches to point buy?
I'll also add a quick reference to the various base races by the extents of their ability score modification:
+2 and +1 Dragonborn, Half-Elf, Half-Orc, Tiefling, Leonin, Satyr, Aarakocra, Golath, Bugbear, Firbolg, Goblin, Hobgoblin, Kenku, Lizardfolk, Orc, Tabaxi, Yuan-Ti Pureblood, Feral Tiefling, Tortle, Changeling, Kalashtar, Shifter, Warforged, Centaur, Loxodon, Minotaur, Simic Hybrid, Vedalken, Verdan, Locathah, Grung;
either +3 or +2 and +1 custom lineage if your DM allows it (with use of half feat bonus);
either +2 and +1 or 3*+1 Variant Human (with use of half feat bonus), Van Richten's Lineages (option), Fairy Harengon;
3*+1 Triton;
+2 Dwarf, Elf, Gnome, Genasi, Aasimar, Kobold;
1*+1 Gith.
Mountain Dwarves, exceptionally, get a +2 to str and +2 con (but, personally, pls consider avoiding abuse of Tasha's custom lineage which might potentially permit dumping str and/or con while rapidly maxing other stats. Nuts!)
I’m an avid optimizer, but I don’t like to dump 3 stats during character creation.
So I usually go with 15, 15, 14, 10, 8, 8.
It allows you to focus on main stats, enabling access to half-feats at 4 and giving ok scores for third stats as well.
Maxing can certainly be optimal in cases when a buff to one ability is at least twice as valuable as a nerf to another ability.
The stated primary abilities for 5e classes are:
Barbarian +str
Bard +chr
Cleric +wis
Druid +wis
Fighter +str
Fighter +dex
Monk +dex+wis
Paladin +str+chr
Ranger +dex+wis
Rogue +dex
Sorcerer +chr
Warlock +chr
Artificer +int
(These primary abilities are those needed at score 13 or above for multiclassing).
So, for favourite single or multiclass builds, which stats do folks max, buff or dump?
Would there be a difference in optimal point buy models between the creation of a 1st lev character and, say, a 19th lev fighter with 7 class feature ASIs?
Monk should be DEX & WIS. The STR and DEX are their saving throws.
I would be in agreement with Ir0ns0ul and go more for the 15,15,14,10,8,8 but it really depends on the concept I’m going for.
EZD6 by DM Scotty
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/397599/EZD6-Core-Rulebook?
It's perhaps belatedly beginning to sound good. I don't think I've ever dumped more than one stat, probably due to not wanting to have greater weaknesses than commoners.
But of course, on the topic of saving throws, the Resilient feat could belatedly be brought in to amply cover those weaknesses.
A 15,15,14,10,8,8 build on the basis of a suitably matched +2,+1 race would need 5 ASIs or 4 ASIs and a couple of half feats to get to a 20,20,14,10,8,8 build.
At what stage, if at all, would people cut in to add in the resilient feat to plug potential weaknesses or do people look for other ways to save their throws or to cover them in events of failure?
I'm with most others, with the 15 15 14 10 8 8. Admittedly on a few, INTENDED to be min/maxed, I've done the 15 15 15 route. So far as saves go, I have tried to use the 3rd stat as one of the "big" saves that my class maybe didn't give me proficiency in. On my Monk, I was in love with the Str proficiency, because it was a near dump stat for him. He is far from min/max, though and not even the 15 15 14 split, I think I only had one set to 15 when i created him, because he had somewhat of a personality before I made him, so I needed his stats to meet certain standards I had set for him, lol. Min/max would have been a big help for him (we're 11 now, so I am past the painful part) as I drive Dex up and left Wis lower, not realizing how important getting my DC up would be for my effectiveness in fights.
In all, I think you'll see most choose lower on the chart, with a couple, at least, "dump stats" since pretty much any character you could think of (well, interesting characters, anyway) should have a part of their being that's below average. Couple low stats, couple high ones and the rest kind of middling.
Talk to your Players. Talk to your DM. If more people used this advice, there would be 24.74% fewer threads on Tactics, Rules and DM discussions.
Just looking through my characters initial stats (though most started at level 3 and many were pre Tasha's):
Generally I don't mind dumping Int, Cha or Str but less keen on dumping Wis and Dex and they are important for saving throws and skils (often everyone needs to roll stealth / perception but only one needs to roll history or persuasion)
You can only use resiliant feat once (elemental adept is the only feat you can currently take multiple times) so it can only cover one weakness, and at least on spell casters I use it on a com (with a positive modifier) to help bolster concentration saves. As mentioned above I tend to only dump stats where the save is less important. As far as other ways to cope with dealing with poor saving throws standing close to the paladin is usually a good move.
A 15/15/14/10/8/8 build after racial bonuses can be 17/16/14/10/8/8 and it takes 1ASI and a half feat to get to 20/16/14/10/8/8. To get to 20/20/14/10/8/8 requires 3 ASIs and a half feat.