People crap on a phb beastmaster but Following raw rules It only takes 1d6 Min to harvest a poison use from any poisonous creature and all harvested injury poisons last until a hit.
If they take a flying snake, a ranger can add 3d4+ prof poison Damage to every weapon for one attack and every single piece of piercing ammunition for the whole party. You can even add it to caltrops and cordon of arrows and they stack with spike growth.
Meaning if you can get an enemy to step into your trap. on an ambush round you will get.
a caltrop Dex save for 1+3d4+prof
Cordon of arrows DEX save 1d6+ 3d4+prof
a spikegrowth 2d4 damage for at least 1 ft of movement (maybe more)
All your regular attack damage (Probably 2) With 3d4+ prof added to each. (Probably with sharpshooter+ archery fighting style)
(3d4+ prof damage) X the number of allies attacks that use poison on their weapons. (note paladins may complain due to ethics)
If you took a different pet you have the chance at higher damage but its gated behind a save. so it could be a good way to burn legendary resistance in one turn. (note: only about 37% of creatures with legendary resistance are immune to poison damage that means 63% of the time it will work On a BBGE )
The rules are a bit hazy on that.
The rules do not say that the poison damage you do is the same as the creatures poison attack though as the examples in the DMG (e.g. Serpent Venom from Giant poisonouis snakes) do match the POISON damage I wont say that is not the case.
A dont know why add proficiency a flying snakes damage is 1 piercing and 3d4 poison the poison you have captured is unable ot do piercing damage so the extra damage is only 3d4.
The biggest issue however is there is no indication of how frequently you can attempt to take a sample. While tyou can attempt to extract poison from an incapacited (but not dead) creature details are not given of the impact of that. Does it involve removing the poison gland so the creature is unable ot make poison attacks again? It is implied that only one attempt can be made (otherwise if you kill a giant venomous snake you could extract 1000 doses of serpent venom and sell them to the local assassin's guild for 200k (not bad for a CR1/4 creature).
You could kill your flying snake, spend 1d6 minutes extractig a poison then start looking for another one and when you find it spend 8 hours bonding with it (but if your just going to kill it there is no need ot bond with it orto be a ranger)
If you instead get the monk to stun it and extract the poison there is no indication if, and when you can try again I certainly don't think you can keep tryingevery 1d6 minutes.
The other thing to remember is, particularly at low levels most of the time you will fail to extract the poison. You need ot succeed on a DC20 (Int) nature check or a DC20 (Int) poisoners kit ceck. If you have a +2 Int up to level 4 you have a 25% chance of succeeding and half the time you will take the poison damage yourself so you wont be able to make many doses before you are nearly unconcious and used up all the healer's spell slots..
Over this entire thread no one mentioned monks. They are super versatile and can be minmaxed very easily. Centaur monk who follows the way of the astral self or some other powerful subclass with 2 levels in rogue can move 30 feet towards an enemy, beat them up then run 40 feet away, out of range for most melee enemies. Not considering all the other posiible builds or any specific actions other than the rogue's BA disengage which can be avoided if you spend some ki.
Most people regard monks as one of the weaker classes (mostly due to limited ki) and if you look at the monk section of the forum you will see several threads about how t o"fix" the monk by increasing its power. The fact that you say astral self "or some other powerful subclass" indicates even you believe Astral Self does not stand out as a super powerful subclass for monks.
Running running towards an enemy beating them up and running away again isn't thart much different from another class attacking them from range. In my experiance monks are perfectly viable and can be optimised in the same way as other classes. Astral self is a decent sub class though mercy, long death and open hand are probably more powerful there is certainly nothing broken about them in the same way that there is with twilight cleric.
Plus they will eat an attack of opportunity if they run away...
Unless you use precious ki to disengage as a BA which only makes you weaker to attack later on.
Over this entire thread no one mentioned monks. They are super versatile and can be minmaxed very easily. Centaur monk who follows the way of the astral self or some other powerful subclass with 2 levels in rogue can move 30 feet towards an enemy, beat them up then run 40 feet away, out of range for most melee enemies. Not considering all the other posiible builds or any specific actions other than the rogue's BA disengage which can be avoided if you spend some ki.
Most people regard monks as one of the weaker classes (mostly due to limited ki) and if you look at the monk section of the forum you will see several threads about how t o"fix" the monk by increasing its power. The fact that you say astral self "or some other powerful subclass" indicates even you believe Astral Self does not stand out as a super powerful subclass for monks.
Running running towards an enemy beating them up and running away again isn't thart much different from another class attacking them from range. In my experiance monks are perfectly viable and can be optimised in the same way as other classes. Astral self is a decent sub class though mercy, long death and open hand are probably more powerful there is certainly nothing broken about them in the same way that there is with twilight cleric.
Plus they will eat an attack of opportunity if they run away...
Unless you use precious ki to disengage as a BA which only makes you weaker to attack later on.
The class is just so lacking in synergy
A possible solution would be to take the "mobile" or "Crusher" feat. The problem is that the monk unfortunately does not receive many bonuses to the characteristics and not to mention that it is the most MAD of the classes. So it almost seems like a conspiracy of how weak the monk is compared to the other classes. After all China and America are not on good terms.
It must also be said that after level 11-15, the monk has an increasingly obvious disadvantage in dealing damage to enemies.
Over this entire thread no one mentioned monks. They are super versatile and can be minmaxed very easily. Centaur monk who follows the way of the astral self or some other powerful subclass with 2 levels in rogue can move 30 feet towards an enemy, beat them up then run 40 feet away, out of range for most melee enemies. Not considering all the other posiible builds or any specific actions other than the rogue's BA disengage which can be avoided if you spend some ki.
Most people regard monks as one of the weaker classes (mostly due to limited ki) and if you look at the monk section of the forum you will see several threads about how t o"fix" the monk by increasing its power. The fact that you say astral self "or some other powerful subclass" indicates even you believe Astral Self does not stand out as a super powerful subclass for monks.
Running running towards an enemy beating them up and running away again isn't thart much different from another class attacking them from range. In my experiance monks are perfectly viable and can be optimised in the same way as other classes. Astral self is a decent sub class though mercy, long death and open hand are probably more powerful there is certainly nothing broken about them in the same way that there is with twilight cleric.
Plus they will eat an attack of opportunity if they run away...
Unless you use precious ki to disengage as a BA which only makes you weaker to attack later on.
The class is just so lacking in synergy
You could grab mobile feat or go rogue 3 to add swashbuckler and steady aim. It does mean another level of ki progression lost and another level delayed for monk progression. However, this would preserve your ki pool for other things and it would preserve your bonus action for other uses. With rogue 2 you could use cunning action to disengage. Centaur has 40 ft base speed and monks get an additional 10 ft at level 2. To get the full 70 that the other poster mentioned, you'd need to be monk 18, so I think that they were imaging a monk 18/rogue 2. Otherwise the dash would have got them up to 80 ft movement with rogue 2/monk 1 and 100 ft movement with rogue 2/monk 2.
Steady Aim from monk would be a bit superfluous, but could be nice to get an attack in from range with a shortbow if you weren't going to get close enough normally, needed to stay closer to where you were, were immobilized, or didn't want to close ranks just yet because you'd get overrun otherwise. It wouldn't be the main reason to go rogue 3 instead of just rogue 2, which would limit the opportunity cost associated with it and the potentially limited uses.
Astral self will usually have Arms of Astral Self active in combat giving them an extra 5 foot reach do as long as te enemy does not have reach they can run to 10ft away from the enemy attack and run away without drawing op attacks (and use they bonus action / ki for something other than disengage)
Over this entire thread no one mentioned monks. They are super versatile and can be minmaxed very easily. Centaur monk who follows the way of the astral self or some other powerful subclass with 2 levels in rogue can move 30 feet towards an enemy, beat them up then run 40 feet away, out of range for most melee enemies. Not considering all the other posiible builds or any specific actions other than the rogue's BA disengage which can be avoided if you spend some ki.
Most people regard monks as one of the weaker classes (mostly due to limited ki) and if you look at the monk section of the forum you will see several threads about how t o"fix" the monk by increasing its power. The fact that you say astral self "or some other powerful subclass" indicates even you believe Astral Self does not stand out as a super powerful subclass for monks.
Running running towards an enemy beating them up and running away again isn't thart much different from another class attacking them from range. In my experiance monks are perfectly viable and can be optimised in the same way as other classes. Astral self is a decent sub class though mercy, long death and open hand are probably more powerful there is certainly nothing broken about them in the same way that there is with twilight cleric.
Plus they will eat an attack of opportunity if they run away...
Unless you use precious ki to disengage as a BA which only makes you weaker to attack later on.
The class is just so lacking in synergy
You could grab mobile feat or go rogue 3 to add swashbuckler and steady aim. It does mean another level of ki progression lost and another level delayed for monk progression. However, this would preserve your ki pool for other things and it would preserve your bonus action for other uses. With rogue 2 you could use cunning action to disengage. Centaur has 40 ft base speed and monks get an additional 10 ft at level 2. To get the full 70 that the other poster mentioned, you'd need to be monk 18, so I think that they were imaging a monk 18/rogue 2. Otherwise the dash would have got them up to 80 ft movement with rogue 2/monk 1 and 100 ft movement with rogue 2/monk 2.
Steady Aim from monk would be a bit superfluous, but could be nice to get an attack in from range with a shortbow if you weren't going to get close enough normally, needed to stay closer to where you were, were immobilized, or didn't want to close ranks just yet because you'd get overrun otherwise. It wouldn't be the main reason to go rogue 3 instead of just rogue 2, which would limit the opportunity cost associated with it and the potentially limited uses.
Yeah I like rogue dips for monk honestly as it actually makes you feel like a monk.
Astral self will usually have Arms of Astral Self active in combat giving them an extra 5 foot reach do as long as te enemy does not have reach they can run to 10ft away from the enemy attack and run away without drawing op attacks (and use they bonus action / ki for something other than disengage)
Bugbears get extra reach so this could be an anti sentinel/polearm master class, or just a person who closes range gaps quickly
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[roll]7d6[/roll]
Every post these dice roll increasing my chances of winning the yahtzee thread (I wish (wait not the twist the wish threa-!))
People crap on a phb beastmaster but Following raw rules It only takes 1d6 Min to harvest a poison use from any poisonous creature and all harvested injury poisons last until a hit.
If they take a flying snake, a ranger can add 3d4+ prof poison Damage to every weapon for one attack and every single piece of piercing ammunition for the whole party. You can even add it to caltrops and cordon of arrows and they stack with spike growth.
Meaning if you can get an enemy to step into your trap. on an ambush round you will get.
a caltrop Dex save for 1+3d4+prof
Cordon of arrows DEX save 1d6+ 3d4+prof
a spikegrowth 2d4 damage for at least 1 ft of movement (maybe more)
All your regular attack damage (Probably 2) With 3d4+ prof added to each. (Probably with sharpshooter+ archery fighting style)
(3d4+ prof damage) X the number of allies attacks that use poison on their weapons. (note paladins may complain due to ethics)
If you took a different pet you have the chance at higher damage but its gated behind a save. so it could be a good way to burn legendary resistance in one turn. (note: only about 37% of creatures with legendary resistance are immune to poison damage that means 63% of the time it will work On a BBGE )
The rules are a bit hazy on that.
The rules do not say that the poison damage you do is the same as the creatures poison attack though as the examples in the DMG (e.g. Serpent Venom from Giant poisonouis snakes) do match the POISON damage I wont say that is not the case.
A dont know why add proficiency a flying snakes damage is 1 piercing and 3d4 poison the poison you have captured is unable ot do piercing damage so the extra damage is only 3d4.
The biggest issue however is there is no indication of how frequently you can attempt to take a sample. While tyou can attempt to extract poison from an incapacited (but not dead) creature details are not given of the impact of that. Does it involve removing the poison gland so the creature is unable ot make poison attacks again? It is implied that only one attempt can be made (otherwise if you kill a giant venomous snake you could extract 1000 doses of serpent venom and sell them to the local assassin's guild for 200k (not bad for a CR1/4 creature).
You could kill your flying snake, spend 1d6 minutes extractig a poison then start looking for another one and when you find it spend 8 hours bonding with it (but if your just going to kill it there is no need ot bond with it orto be a ranger)
If you instead get the monk to stun it and extract the poison there is no indication if, and when you can try again I certainly don't think you can keep tryingevery 1d6 minutes.
The other thing to remember is, particularly at low levels most of the time you will fail to extract the poison. You need ot succeed on a DC20 (Int) nature check or a DC20 (Int) poisoners kit ceck. If you have a +2 Int up to level 4 you have a 25% chance of succeeding and half the time you will take the poison damage yourself so you wont be able to make many doses before you are nearly unconcious and used up all the healer's spell slots..
Every part of my information is based on Raw rules. meanwhile your objections use Phrases like "I think" or "implied" or "left field information"(ie stuff not in the RAW text)
But I will address The two most interesting points.
a dead (Humaniod, creature, body) is a very specific state. the game has precedence to where a "dead" Thing is a creature just after it has been converted from a creature to an object. this wording is common for spells like Raise dead or revivify. a similar case is when necromancers raise undead. once a activity has been done it becomes an object and is nolonger available for future checks or spells that require a dead body. Hence, why harvesting once from a dead poisonous creature is valid but twice is not.
The reason why ranger subclass is important over others is .. the ranger gets check assistance as a free choice. A cooperative creature prevents any future Problems that a captive or hunting them down would. secondly the ranger(tasha's or PHB) has built in boons for the harvesting. the ranger has either advantage, double proficiency or both. making failure almost impossible and success highly likely.
assume the prof damage doesn't apply to poison(which is wrong but i'll go with it) you still can get almost double baseline damage from the poison alone. Assume you can only get one dose per long rest. You still only need about 8 doses for your BBGE fight. I find you can get a week and a half for most campaigns. Days of travel in game greatly increase this number.
Now all this power is balanced out by the pet death problem and poison resistance but even taking that into account a PHB beastmaster is still a contender for the strongest subclass.
People crap on a phb beastmaster but Following raw rules It only takes 1d6 Min to harvest a poison use from any poisonous creature and all harvested injury poisons last until a hit.
If they take a flying snake, a ranger can add 3d4+ prof poison Damage to every weapon for one attack and every single piece of piercing ammunition for the whole party. You can even add it to caltrops and cordon of arrows and they stack with spike growth.
Meaning if you can get an enemy to step into your trap. on an ambush round you will get.
a caltrop Dex save for 1+3d4+prof
Cordon of arrows DEX save 1d6+ 3d4+prof
a spikegrowth 2d4 damage for at least 1 ft of movement (maybe more)
All your regular attack damage (Probably 2) With 3d4+ prof added to each. (Probably with sharpshooter+ archery fighting style)
(3d4+ prof damage) X the number of allies attacks that use poison on their weapons. (note paladins may complain due to ethics)
If you took a different pet you have the chance at higher damage but its gated behind a save. so it could be a good way to burn legendary resistance in one turn. (note: only about 37% of creatures with legendary resistance are immune to poison damage that means 63% of the time it will work On a BBGE )
The rules are a bit hazy on that.
The rules do not say that the poison damage you do is the same as the creatures poison attack though as the examples in the DMG (e.g. Serpent Venom from Giant poisonouis snakes) do match the POISON damage I wont say that is not the case.
A dont know why add proficiency a flying snakes damage is 1 piercing and 3d4 poison the poison you have captured is unable ot do piercing damage so the extra damage is only 3d4.
The biggest issue however is there is no indication of how frequently you can attempt to take a sample. While tyou can attempt to extract poison from an incapacited (but not dead) creature details are not given of the impact of that. Does it involve removing the poison gland so the creature is unable ot make poison attacks again? It is implied that only one attempt can be made (otherwise if you kill a giant venomous snake you could extract 1000 doses of serpent venom and sell them to the local assassin's guild for 200k (not bad for a CR1/4 creature).
You could kill your flying snake, spend 1d6 minutes extractig a poison then start looking for another one and when you find it spend 8 hours bonding with it (but if your just going to kill it there is no need ot bond with it orto be a ranger)
If you instead get the monk to stun it and extract the poison there is no indication if, and when you can try again I certainly don't think you can keep tryingevery 1d6 minutes.
The other thing to remember is, particularly at low levels most of the time you will fail to extract the poison. You need ot succeed on a DC20 (Int) nature check or a DC20 (Int) poisoners kit ceck. If you have a +2 Int up to level 4 you have a 25% chance of succeeding and half the time you will take the poison damage yourself so you wont be able to make many doses before you are nearly unconcious and used up all the healer's spell slots..
Every part of my information is based on Raw rules. meanwhile your objections use Phrases like "I think" or "implied" or "left field information"(ie stuff not in the RAW text)
But I will address The two most interesting points.
a dead (Humaniod, creature, body) is a very specific state. the game has presidency to where a dead Thing is a creature just after it has been converted from a creature to an object. this is common for spells like Raise dead or revivify. a similar case is when necromancers raise undead. once a activity has been done it becomes an object and is nolonger available for future checks or spells that require a dead body. Hence, why harvesting once from a dead poisonous creature is valid but twice is not.
The reason why ranger subclass is important over others is it is a free choice for the ranger. a cooperative creature prevents any future Problems that a captive or hunting them down would. secondly the ranger(tasha's or PHB) has built in boons for the harvesting. the ranger has either advantage, double proficiency or both. making failure almost impossible and success highly likely.
assume the prof damage doesn't apply to poison(which is wrong but i'll go with it) you still can get almost double baseline damage from the poison alone. Assume you can only get one dose per long rest. You still only need about 8 doses for your BBGE fight. I find you can get a week and a half for most campaigns. Days of travel in game greatly increase this number.
Now all this power is balanced out by the pet death problem and poison resistance but even taking that into account a PHB beastmaster is still a contender for the strongest subclass.
I'm pretty sure any DM would likely let you do this like once a day at most...
RAW allows a lot of silly things but I'm reality most people don't grate that cheese too much.
People crap on a phb beastmaster but Following raw rules It only takes 1d6 Min to harvest a poison use from any poisonous creature and all harvested injury poisons last until a hit.
If they take a flying snake, a ranger can add 3d4+ prof poison Damage to every weapon for one attack and every single piece of piercing ammunition for the whole party. You can even add it to caltrops and cordon of arrows and they stack with spike growth.
Meaning if you can get an enemy to step into your trap. on an ambush round you will get.
a caltrop Dex save for 1+3d4+prof
Cordon of arrows DEX save 1d6+ 3d4+prof
a spikegrowth 2d4 damage for at least 1 ft of movement (maybe more)
All your regular attack damage (Probably 2) With 3d4+ prof added to each. (Probably with sharpshooter+ archery fighting style)
(3d4+ prof damage) X the number of allies attacks that use poison on their weapons. (note paladins may complain due to ethics)
If you took a different pet you have the chance at higher damage but its gated behind a save. so it could be a good way to burn legendary resistance in one turn. (note: only about 37% of creatures with legendary resistance are immune to poison damage that means 63% of the time it will work On a BBGE )
The rules are a bit hazy on that.
The rules do not say that the poison damage you do is the same as the creatures poison attack though as the examples in the DMG (e.g. Serpent Venom from Giant poisonouis snakes) do match the POISON damage I wont say that is not the case.
A dont know why add proficiency a flying snakes damage is 1 piercing and 3d4 poison the poison you have captured is unable ot do piercing damage so the extra damage is only 3d4.
The biggest issue however is there is no indication of how frequently you can attempt to take a sample. While tyou can attempt to extract poison from an incapacited (but not dead) creature details are not given of the impact of that. Does it involve removing the poison gland so the creature is unable ot make poison attacks again? It is implied that only one attempt can be made (otherwise if you kill a giant venomous snake you could extract 1000 doses of serpent venom and sell them to the local assassin's guild for 200k (not bad for a CR1/4 creature).
You could kill your flying snake, spend 1d6 minutes extractig a poison then start looking for another one and when you find it spend 8 hours bonding with it (but if your just going to kill it there is no need ot bond with it orto be a ranger)
If you instead get the monk to stun it and extract the poison there is no indication if, and when you can try again I certainly don't think you can keep tryingevery 1d6 minutes.
The other thing to remember is, particularly at low levels most of the time you will fail to extract the poison. You need ot succeed on a DC20 (Int) nature check or a DC20 (Int) poisoners kit ceck. If you have a +2 Int up to level 4 you have a 25% chance of succeeding and half the time you will take the poison damage yourself so you wont be able to make many doses before you are nearly unconcious and used up all the healer's spell slots..
Every part of my information is based on Raw rules. meanwhile your objections use Phrases like "I think" or "implied" or "left field information"(ie stuff not in the RAW text)
But I will address The two most interesting points.
a dead (Humaniod, creature, body) is a very specific state. the game has presidency to where a dead Thing is a creature just after it has been converted from a creature to an object. this is common for spells like Raise dead or revivify. a similar case is when necromancers raise undead. once a activity has been done it becomes an object and is nolonger available for future checks or spells that require a dead body. Hence, why harvesting once from a dead poisonous creature is valid but twice is not.
The reason why ranger subclass is important over others is it is a free choice for the ranger. a cooperative creature prevents any future Problems that a captive or hunting them down would. secondly the ranger(tasha's or PHB) has built in boons for the harvesting. the ranger has either advantage, double proficiency or both. making failure almost impossible and success highly likely.
assume the prof damage doesn't apply to poison(which is wrong but i'll go with it) you still can get almost double baseline damage from the poison alone. Assume you can only get one dose per long rest. You still only need about 8 doses for your BBGE fight. I find you can get a week and a half for most campaigns. Days of travel in game greatly increase this number.
Now all this power is balanced out by the pet death problem and poison resistance but even taking that into account a PHB beastmaster is still a contender for the strongest subclass.
I'm pretty sure any DM would likely let you do this like once a day at most...
RAW allows a lot of silly things but I'm reality most people don't grate that cheese too much.
Once a day saved up over a week is still enough to allow a ranger to triple baseline Dpr.
Frankly I don't care if a dm wants to add homebrew restrictions but they better not call phb beastmaster the weakest subclass when they are raw "s tier broken" a significant portion of the time. so much so, That they require "nerfs."
This build isn't any more cheesy than any other claim for power in this thread. But rangers are still A level adventurers because they check all the boxes. Healing, damage, stealth, defense, utility and fun. : )
People crap on a phb beastmaster but Following raw rules It only takes 1d6 Min to harvest a poison use from any poisonous creature and all harvested injury poisons last until a hit.
If they take a flying snake, a ranger can add 3d4+ prof poison Damage to every weapon for one attack and every single piece of piercing ammunition for the whole party. You can even add it to caltrops and cordon of arrows and they stack with spike growth.
Meaning if you can get an enemy to step into your trap. on an ambush round you will get.
a caltrop Dex save for 1+3d4+prof
Cordon of arrows DEX save 1d6+ 3d4+prof
a spikegrowth 2d4 damage for at least 1 ft of movement (maybe more)
All your regular attack damage (Probably 2) With 3d4+ prof added to each. (Probably with sharpshooter+ archery fighting style)
(3d4+ prof damage) X the number of allies attacks that use poison on their weapons. (note paladins may complain due to ethics)
If you took a different pet you have the chance at higher damage but its gated behind a save. so it could be a good way to burn legendary resistance in one turn. (note: only about 37% of creatures with legendary resistance are immune to poison damage that means 63% of the time it will work On a BBGE )
The rules are a bit hazy on that.
The rules do not say that the poison damage you do is the same as the creatures poison attack though as the examples in the DMG (e.g. Serpent Venom from Giant poisonouis snakes) do match the POISON damage I wont say that is not the case.
A dont know why add proficiency a flying snakes damage is 1 piercing and 3d4 poison the poison you have captured is unable ot do piercing damage so the extra damage is only 3d4.
The biggest issue however is there is no indication of how frequently you can attempt to take a sample. While tyou can attempt to extract poison from an incapacited (but not dead) creature details are not given of the impact of that. Does it involve removing the poison gland so the creature is unable ot make poison attacks again? It is implied that only one attempt can be made (otherwise if you kill a giant venomous snake you could extract 1000 doses of serpent venom and sell them to the local assassin's guild for 200k (not bad for a CR1/4 creature).
You could kill your flying snake, spend 1d6 minutes extractig a poison then start looking for another one and when you find it spend 8 hours bonding with it (but if your just going to kill it there is no need ot bond with it orto be a ranger)
If you instead get the monk to stun it and extract the poison there is no indication if, and when you can try again I certainly don't think you can keep tryingevery 1d6 minutes.
The other thing to remember is, particularly at low levels most of the time you will fail to extract the poison. You need ot succeed on a DC20 (Int) nature check or a DC20 (Int) poisoners kit ceck. If you have a +2 Int up to level 4 you have a 25% chance of succeeding and half the time you will take the poison damage yourself so you wont be able to make many doses before you are nearly unconcious and used up all the healer's spell slots..
Every part of my information is based on Raw rules. meanwhile your objections use Phrases like "I think" or "implied" or "left field information"(ie stuff not in the RAW text)
But I will address The two most interesting points.
a dead (Humaniod, creature, body) is a very specific state. the game has presidency to where a dead Thing is a creature just after it has been converted from a creature to an object. this is common for spells like Raise dead or revivify. a similar case is when necromancers raise undead. once a activity has been done it becomes an object and is nolonger available for future checks or spells that require a dead body. Hence, why harvesting once from a dead poisonous creature is valid but twice is not.
The reason why ranger subclass is important over others is it is a free choice for the ranger. a cooperative creature prevents any future Problems that a captive or hunting them down would. secondly the ranger(tasha's or PHB) has built in boons for the harvesting. the ranger has either advantage, double proficiency or both. making failure almost impossible and success highly likely.
assume the prof damage doesn't apply to poison(which is wrong but i'll go with it) you still can get almost double baseline damage from the poison alone. Assume you can only get one dose per long rest. You still only need about 8 doses for your BBGE fight. I find you can get a week and a half for most campaigns. Days of travel in game greatly increase this number.
Now all this power is balanced out by the pet death problem and poison resistance but even taking that into account a PHB beastmaster is still a contender for the strongest subclass.
I'm pretty sure any DM would likely let you do this like once a day at most...
RAW allows a lot of silly things but I'm reality most people don't grate that cheese too much.
Once a day saved up over a week is still enough to allow a ranger to triple baseline Dpr.
Frankly I don't care if a dm wants to add homebrew restrictions but they better not call phb beastmaster the weakest subclass when they are raw s tier broken a significant portion of the time That they require "nerfs."
This build isn't any more cheesy than any other claim for power in this thread. But rangers are still A level adventurers because they check all the boxes. Healing, damage, stealth, defense, utility and fun. : )
I think the majority of people who have played the Subclass and don't cheese the poison option so I get why people think it's weak.
Plus if that snake dies you have to spend 8 hours to get another one... And you need to be in a place where poisonous snakes exist.
Overall I think you might be overstating it's "power" a great deal in what I think is much more likely a very very niche play style.
In a world described by the original poster, any ranger is going to be top contender for best class all around in a balanced game. In a world that doesn't just focus on damage and only damage, any beast master, especially a well chosen one, will also be a top contender. Many of the "best classes and subclasses" do something very well, but DON'T do several other things at all. Rangers don't really have that issue.
[REDACTED]
Notes: Remain on topic and do not engage in personal attacks
You haven't listed any constraints at all, which makes *most* discussion here pointless - the answer is dependent on factors we have to assume, like level, race, and background, among others. And any assumptions we forget to be explicit about will lead to someone else (correctly) presenting a build that's superior under some other assumption. Just by way of example, Hexblade isn't the best Warlock subclass - but it's absolutely superb (best in the game) as the Warlock subclass you should choose if you're a Paladin multiclass. How are we supposed to even begin answering this poll?
Under a bunch of assumptions I just chose to make, Genie Warlock is the best subclass in the game and I am prepared to demonstrate it outperforming literally anything else. Is this answer meaningful to anyone but me? I doubt it.
I had never seen a Twilight Cleric until looking at this poll.
I was genuinely impressed, but also realized that a few of the things are shared with my personal favorite (at the moment) Warlock: Genie patron. <3
Unfortunately the only problem with the Warlock is that people would just prefer a martial class (Hexblade) with customizable class traits (invocations) instead.
And the Peace Cleric is certainly reminiscent of the Pact of the Talisman invocations. So I can get most of your favorite things about two of the best (Cleric) subclasses all in one! XD
Warlock: Genie Patron, Pact of the Talisman. That's my vote XD
You haven't listed any constraints at all, which makes *most* discussion here pointless - the answer is dependent on factors we have to assume, like level, race, and background, among others. And any assumptions we forget to be explicit about will lead to someone else (correctly) presenting a build that's superior under some other assumption. Just by way of example, Hexblade isn't the best Warlock subclass - but it's absolutely superb (best in the game) as the Warlock subclass you should choose if you're a Paladin multiclass. How are we supposed to even begin answering this poll?
Under a bunch of assumptions I just chose to make, Genie Warlock is the best subclass in the game and I am prepared to demonstrate it outperforming literally anything else. Is this answer meaningful to anyone but me? I doubt it.
I made a response on the poll before seeing this post with a bit of proof being that two of the most popular classes (Twilight AND Peace Cleric) can mostly be covered with a Pact of the Talisman Genie Warlock. How do more people not know about this?
You haven't listed any constraints at all, which makes *most* discussion here pointless - the answer is dependent on factors we have to assume, like level, race, and background, among others. And any assumptions we forget to be explicit about will lead to someone else (correctly) presenting a build that's superior under some other assumption. Just by way of example, Hexblade isn't the best Warlock subclass - but it's absolutely superb (best in the game) as the Warlock subclass you should choose if you're a Paladin multiclass. How are we supposed to even begin answering this poll?
Under a bunch of assumptions I just chose to make, Genie Warlock is the best subclass in the game and I am prepared to demonstrate it outperforming literally anything else. Is this answer meaningful to anyone but me? I doubt it.
I made a response on the poll before seeing this post with a bit of proof being that two of the most popular classes (Twilight AND Peace Cleric) can mostly be covered with a Pact of the Talisman Genie Warlock. How do more people not know about this?
I think the warlock has more limitations would be my only thought.
The clerics have more uses of their features that are very powerful and get more uses per short rest (rather than long rest for the warlock) per day.
Plus they get some really good domain spells.
I think that's why people find them so overall powerful because of the versatility if their powerful abilities and how often they can use them.
Under a bunch of assumptions I just chose to make, Genie Warlock is the best subclass in the game and I am prepared to demonstrate it outperforming literally anything else. Is this answer meaningful to anyone but me? I doubt it.
I'm genuinely interested in this demonstration, a bit of validation in my own thought process, per se.
The rules are a bit hazy on that.
The rules do not say that the poison damage you do is the same as the creatures poison attack though as the examples in the DMG (e.g. Serpent Venom from Giant poisonouis snakes) do match the POISON damage I wont say that is not the case.
A dont know why add proficiency a flying snakes damage is 1 piercing and 3d4 poison the poison you have captured is unable ot do piercing damage so the extra damage is only 3d4.
The biggest issue however is there is no indication of how frequently you can attempt to take a sample. While tyou can attempt to extract poison from an incapacited (but not dead) creature details are not given of the impact of that. Does it involve removing the poison gland so the creature is unable ot make poison attacks again? It is implied that only one attempt can be made (otherwise if you kill a giant venomous snake you could extract 1000 doses of serpent venom and sell them to the local assassin's guild for 200k (not bad for a CR1/4 creature).
You could kill your flying snake, spend 1d6 minutes extractig a poison then start looking for another one and when you find it spend 8 hours bonding with it (but if your just going to kill it there is no need ot bond with it orto be a ranger)
If you instead get the monk to stun it and extract the poison there is no indication if, and when you can try again I certainly don't think you can keep tryingevery 1d6 minutes.
The other thing to remember is, particularly at low levels most of the time you will fail to extract the poison. You need ot succeed on a DC20 (Int) nature check or a DC20 (Int) poisoners kit ceck. If you have a +2 Int up to level 4 you have a 25% chance of succeeding and half the time you will take the poison damage yourself so you wont be able to make many doses before you are nearly unconcious and used up all the healer's spell slots..
Plus they will eat an attack of opportunity if they run away...
Unless you use precious ki to disengage as a BA which only makes you weaker to attack later on.
The class is just so lacking in synergy
A possible solution would be to take the "mobile" or "Crusher" feat. The problem is that the monk unfortunately does not receive many bonuses to the characteristics and not to mention that it is the most MAD of the classes. So it almost seems like a conspiracy of how weak the monk is compared to the other classes. After all China and America are not on good terms.
It must also be said that after level 11-15, the monk has an increasingly obvious disadvantage in dealing damage to enemies.
You could grab mobile feat or go rogue 3 to add swashbuckler and steady aim. It does mean another level of ki progression lost and another level delayed for monk progression. However, this would preserve your ki pool for other things and it would preserve your bonus action for other uses. With rogue 2 you could use cunning action to disengage. Centaur has 40 ft base speed and monks get an additional 10 ft at level 2. To get the full 70 that the other poster mentioned, you'd need to be monk 18, so I think that they were imaging a monk 18/rogue 2. Otherwise the dash would have got them up to 80 ft movement with rogue 2/monk 1 and 100 ft movement with rogue 2/monk 2.
Steady Aim from monk would be a bit superfluous, but could be nice to get an attack in from range with a shortbow if you weren't going to get close enough normally, needed to stay closer to where you were, were immobilized, or didn't want to close ranks just yet because you'd get overrun otherwise. It wouldn't be the main reason to go rogue 3 instead of just rogue 2, which would limit the opportunity cost associated with it and the potentially limited uses.
Astral self will usually have Arms of Astral Self active in combat giving them an extra 5 foot reach do as long as te enemy does not have reach they can run to 10ft away from the enemy attack and run away without drawing op attacks (and use they bonus action / ki for something other than disengage)
Yeah I like rogue dips for monk honestly as it actually makes you feel like a monk.
Interesting.
Bugbears get extra reach so this could be an anti sentinel/polearm master class, or just a person who closes range gaps quickly
[roll]7d6[/roll]
Every post these dice roll increasing my chances of winning the yahtzee thread (I wish (wait not the twist the wish threa-!))
Drummer Generated Title
After having been invited to include both here, I now combine the "PM me CHEESE 🧀 and tomato into PM me "PIZZA🍕"
Every part of my information is based on Raw rules. meanwhile your objections use Phrases like "I think" or "implied" or "left field information"(ie stuff not in the RAW text)
But I will address The two most interesting points.
Now all this power is balanced out by the pet death problem and poison resistance but even taking that into account a PHB beastmaster is still a contender for the strongest subclass.
I'm pretty sure any DM would likely let you do this like once a day at most...
RAW allows a lot of silly things but I'm reality most people don't grate that cheese too much.
Once a day saved up over a week is still enough to allow a ranger to triple baseline Dpr.
Frankly I don't care if a dm wants to add homebrew restrictions but they better not call phb beastmaster the weakest subclass when they are raw "s tier broken" a significant portion of the time. so much so, That they require "nerfs."
This build isn't any more cheesy than any other claim for power in this thread. But rangers are still A level adventurers because they check all the boxes. Healing, damage, stealth, defense, utility and fun. : )
I think the majority of people who have played the Subclass and don't cheese the poison option so I get why people think it's weak.
Plus if that snake dies you have to spend 8 hours to get another one... And you need to be in a place where poisonous snakes exist.
Overall I think you might be overstating it's "power" a great deal in what I think is much more likely a very very niche play style.
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In a world described by the original poster, any ranger is going to be top contender for best class all around in a balanced game. In a world that doesn't just focus on damage and only damage, any beast master, especially a well chosen one, will also be a top contender. Many of the "best classes and subclasses" do something very well, but DON'T do several other things at all. Rangers don't really have that issue.
[REDACTED]
You haven't listed any constraints at all, which makes *most* discussion here pointless - the answer is dependent on factors we have to assume, like level, race, and background, among others. And any assumptions we forget to be explicit about will lead to someone else (correctly) presenting a build that's superior under some other assumption. Just by way of example, Hexblade isn't the best Warlock subclass - but it's absolutely superb (best in the game) as the Warlock subclass you should choose if you're a Paladin multiclass. How are we supposed to even begin answering this poll?
Under a bunch of assumptions I just chose to make, Genie Warlock is the best subclass in the game and I am prepared to demonstrate it outperforming literally anything else. Is this answer meaningful to anyone but me? I doubt it.
I had never seen a Twilight Cleric until looking at this poll.
I was genuinely impressed, but also realized that a few of the things are shared with my personal favorite (at the moment) Warlock: Genie patron. <3
Unfortunately the only problem with the Warlock is that people would just prefer a martial class (Hexblade) with customizable class traits (invocations) instead.
And the Peace Cleric is certainly reminiscent of the Pact of the Talisman invocations. So I can get most of your favorite things about two of the best (Cleric) subclasses all in one! XD
Warlock: Genie Patron, Pact of the Talisman. That's my vote XD
I made a response on the poll before seeing this post with a bit of proof being that two of the most popular classes (Twilight AND Peace Cleric) can mostly be covered with a Pact of the Talisman Genie Warlock. How do more people not know about this?
I think the warlock has more limitations would be my only thought.
The clerics have more uses of their features that are very powerful and get more uses per short rest (rather than long rest for the warlock) per day.
Plus they get some really good domain spells.
I think that's why people find them so overall powerful because of the versatility if their powerful abilities and how often they can use them.
I'm genuinely interested in this demonstration, a bit of validation in my own thought process, per se.
Peace domain cleric isn't even mentioned as an option?!
Not by the OP but I mentioned it in post 4.
Definitely Twilight Clerics. Assassin Rogues are also really good because they can almost one-tap a Yuan-Ti Malison at level 6.