Really good point about Peace Cleric. But I have the feeling it’s a strong 1-2 level dip like Hexblade, instead of a strong full progression like Twilight Cleric.
Peace Cleric 1 / Chronurgy Wizard X is the best multiclass in my opinion, better than Artificer because I love Resilient CON.
Am I missing something? Peace Clerics don't start with CON save as far as I'm aware. It's one of the reasons to pick Artificer.
I think what they're saying is that they prefer to take the Cleric/Chronurgy multiclass and just take the Resilient Feat to gain proficiency in CON rather than go out of their way to multiclass into a class that has CON save proficiency natively.
Exatcly. In the long run, your Artificer will miss WIS saving prof and probably would get Resilient WIS at 8 or 12. I rather round my odd CON at 4 than invest in WIS later, therefore I think Cleric a better dip than Artificer. Actually, I would rate even Hexblade dip higher than Artificers for Wizards. Hexblade Curse is insanely good when combined with Magic Missile, Scorching Ray or Melf’s Minute Meteor, specially if you are a Evoker. Armor of Agathys is crazy good for Abjurers.
As I said, Artificer is nice, but I see more value on getting Resilient CON at 4.
I somewhat disagree. While going Cleric has its obvious benefits, especially if you take 2 levels in Twilight, the main draw of going ArtiChron is that Artificer and Chronurgy both share the same attritube for casting. For a wizard you want a high INT and CON for concentration and + to spells but also DEX for initiative. Add in cleric and you also need a high WIS making the class very MAD.
You just need 13 WIS. This is easy to get with point-buy. Not MAD at all. By the time your ArtiChron starts getting charmed, frightened, paralyzed and dominated because he has 0 WIS save, you’ll probably regret. And your fellow Cleric Wizard is nailing +4 or +5 on WIS saves laughing because he didn’t need to spend Counterspell on a Hold Person that would probably kill him.
Let’s be honest, good concentration spells starts appearing by level 2 (Hold Person, Levitate, Web). Before that you have what? Fog Cloud? Silent Image? Hideous Laugher? Is Artificer so superior because it helps you keep concentration on Fog Cloud since level 1? By the time you get your first feat and invest in Resilient CON, you are now strictly superior and the only opportunity cost was one level worrying to keep Web up. Right positioning, cover and obscurement can do wonders for you.
Artificer Wizard at level 6 would probably have INT 18, DEX 14, CON 16 and WIS 12? CON save +6, WIS save +1.
Cleric Wizard at level 6 would have INT 16, DEX 14, CON 16 (rounded with Resilient) and WIS 13. CON save +6, WIS save +4.
I somewhat disagree. While going Cleric has its obvious benefits, especially if you take 2 levels in Twilight, the main draw of going ArtiChron is that Artificer and Chronurgy both share the same attritube for casting. For a wizard you want a high INT and CON for concentration and + to spells but also DEX for initiative. Add in cleric and you also need a high WIS making the class very MAD.
To start, the Artificer causes your spell slot progression to fall behind a half a level, which for me means you need a really compelling reason. Cleric also gives you some great choices for domain features. The Con save proficiency is preferable to Wis for a spellcaster, but Wis comes in second.
With only a 1 level dip, you can choose from a great list spells like Bless that don't rely on Wisdom, so that's a non-issue.
As a total package, in my opinion a Cleric dip is the clear winner.
I somewhat disagree. While going Cleric has its obvious benefits, especially if you take 2 levels in Twilight, the main draw of going ArtiChron is that Artificer and Chronurgy both share the same attritube for casting. For a wizard you want a high INT and CON for concentration and + to spells but also DEX for initiative. Add in cleric and you also need a high WIS making the class very MAD.
To start, the Artificer causes your spell slot progression to fall behind a half a level, which for me means you need a really compelling reason. Cleric also gives you some great choices for domain features. The Con save proficiency is preferable to Wis for a spellcaster, but Wis comes in second.
With only a 1 level dip, you can choose from a great list spells like Bless that don't rely on Wisdom, so that's a non-issue.
As a total package, in my opinion a Cleric dip is the clear winner.
Yep, it's an efficient power gamed approach for those willing to start as a low wisdom cleric for their projected Cleric 1/Wizard 19, high int build.
For me it all depends on how it is combined with race, Feat, weapons, and class ability ( like reckless attack). I remain in the position that the most powerful subclasses are Arcana trickster, Totem Warrior, Brute.
Totem Warior Bear Feats: Great Weapon Master, Polearm Master Se lo mischi con brute diventa un abberrazione.
Brute Archer Archery. You gain a +2 bonus to attack rolls you make with ranged weapons. Feats: Sharpshooter, Crossbow Expert
Arcana Trickster: Versatile Trickster Feats: Elven Accuracy, Savage Attacker, Mobile, Defensive Duelist Spells: Green-Flame Blade or Shadow Blade
If you take 2 to 6 levels of Blade singer is not bad.
I somewhat disagree. While going Cleric has its obvious benefits, especially if you take 2 levels in Twilight, the main draw of going ArtiChron is that Artificer and Chronurgy both share the same attritube for casting. For a wizard you want a high INT and CON for concentration and + to spells but also DEX for initiative. Add in cleric and you also need a high WIS making the class very MAD.
To start, the Artificer causes your spell slot progression to fall behind a half a level, which for me means you need a really compelling reason. Cleric also gives you some great choices for domain features. The Con save proficiency is preferable to Wis for a spellcaster, but Wis comes in second.
With only a 1 level dip, you can choose from a great list spells like Bless that don't rely on Wisdom, so that's a non-issue.
As a total package, in my opinion a Cleric dip is the clear winner.
Yep, it's an efficient power gamed approach for those willing to start as a low wisdom cleric for their projected Cleric 1/Wizard 19, high int build.
And not even having to wait that long. Right at level 2 (1 Cleric, 1 Wizard) you're up and running as a full armored Wizard, carrying a shield, with the same amount of spell slots. At level 5 (1 Cleric, 4 Wizard) it hurts a bit not to have those lovely 3rd level spells, but again you still have the 3rd level spell slots. So 2nd level spells like Hold person and Blindness Deafness, you can use the 3rd level spell slots to make them target two creatures instead of one.
I haven't bothered to read the replies but I do think some subclasses worth talking about inside the classes mentioned above would be Lore Bard, Aberrant & Divine Sorcerer, and Bladesinger & Divination Wizard.
I somewhat disagree. While going Cleric has its obvious benefits, especially if you take 2 levels in Twilight, the main draw of going ArtiChron is that Artificer and Chronurgy both share the same attritube for casting. For a wizard you want a high INT and CON for concentration and + to spells but also DEX for initiative. Add in cleric and you also need a high WIS making the class very MAD.
To start, the Artificer causes your spell slot progression to fall behind a half a level, which for me means you need a really compelling reason. Cleric also gives you some great choices for domain features. The Con save proficiency is preferable to Wis for a spellcaster, but Wis comes in second.
With only a 1 level dip, you can choose from a great list spells like Bless that don't rely on Wisdom, so that's a non-issue.
As a total package, in my opinion a Cleric dip is the clear winner.
Yep, it's an efficient power gamed approach for those willing to start as a low wisdom cleric for their projected Cleric 1/Wizard 19, high int build.
And not even having to wait that long. Right at level 2 (1 Cleric, 1 Wizard) you're up and running as a full armored Wizard, carrying a shield, with the same amount of spell slots. At level 5 (1 Cleric, 4 Wizard) it hurts a bit not to have those lovely 3rd level spells, but again you still have the 3rd level spell slots. So 2nd level spells like Hold person and Blindness Deafness, you can use the 3rd level spell slots to make them target two creatures instead of one.
It should be noted that Artificer doesn't lose you spell slot progression on a 1 level dip since it's rounded up instead of rounded down like Paladin and Ranger. You don't lose spell slot progression until Artificer 2 as a result. Cleric doesn't gain anything over Artificer in that regard with a 1 level dip.
Both Peace and Twilight domains are OP if the rest of your party know how to take advantage of their low level features.
On a different note, The Oath of the Watchers Paladin can be quite strong by buffing initiative of the party. While this is not OP most of the time, if the players synergize their builds, you can steamroll most opponents in just 1 round of combat. Hexblade 2 + Watchers Paladin 6 on a Harengon lets you be a DEX and CHA Paladin with minimal investment in STR. The reason to do this is to improve your Stealth game. Pick Devil's Sight Invoc. With reasonably high DEX and medium armor, you become the final piece to a Gloomstalker/Assassin/Shadow Monk/Trickery Cleric/War Wizard party due to all-around boost to Initiative where almost everyone goes before the opponent and half the party gets a major damage boost on the first round.
Both Peace and Twilight domains are OP if the rest of your party know how to take advantage of their low level features.
On a different note, The Oath of the Watchers Paladin can be quite strong by buffing initiative of the party. While this is not OP most of the time, if the players synergize their builds, you can steamroll most opponents in just 1 round of combat. Hexblade 2 + Watchers Paladin 6 on a Harengon lets you be a DEX and CHA Paladin with minimal investment in STR. The reason to do this is to improve your Stealth game. Pick Devil's Sight Invoc. With reasonably high DEX and medium armor, you become the final piece to a Gloomstalker/Assassin/Shadow Monk/Trickery Cleric/War Wizard party due to all-around boost to Initiative where almost everyone goes before the opponent and half the party gets a major damage boost on the first round.
Technically you cannot MC without the 13 STR for the Harehexpally.
Both Peace and Twilight domains are OP if the rest of your party know how to take advantage of their low level features.
On a different note, The Oath of the Watchers Paladin can be quite strong by buffing initiative of the party. While this is not OP most of the time, if the players synergize their builds, you can steamroll most opponents in just 1 round of combat. Hexblade 2 + Watchers Paladin 6 on a Harengon lets you be a DEX and CHA Paladin with minimal investment in STR. The reason to do this is to improve your Stealth game. Pick Devil's Sight Invoc. With reasonably high DEX and medium armor, you become the final piece to a Gloomstalker/Assassin/Shadow Monk/Trickery Cleric/War Wizard party due to all-around boost to Initiative where almost everyone goes before the opponent and half the party gets a major damage boost on the first round.
Technically you cannot MC without the 13 STR for the Harehexpally.
13 str, 14 dex, 12 con, 8 int, 10 wis, 15 cha, + racial abilities. +2 to con +1 to ch (or however you want to distribute similarly) gets 13, 14, 14, 8, 10, 16. The wis saves at a +2 because of proficiency bonus isn't ideal, but it's manageable and aura of protection kicks in at pally 6 (potentially as early as character 7). That's fairly minimal and you could even start with chainmail if you start. If you were planning on getting a half feat with dex at some point (or any half feat and a split ASI) you could start with a 13 dex instead.
Both Peace and Twilight domains are OP if the rest of your party know how to take advantage of their low level features.
On a different note, The Oath of the Watchers Paladin can be quite strong by buffing initiative of the party. While this is not OP most of the time, if the players synergize their builds, you can steamroll most opponents in just 1 round of combat. Hexblade 2 + Watchers Paladin 6 on a Harengon lets you be a DEX and CHA Paladin with minimal investment in STR. The reason to do this is to improve your Stealth game. Pick Devil's Sight Invoc. With reasonably high DEX and medium armor, you become the final piece to a Gloomstalker/Assassin/Shadow Monk/Trickery Cleric/War Wizard party due to all-around boost to Initiative where almost everyone goes before the opponent and half the party gets a major damage boost on the first round.
Technically you cannot MC without the 13 STR for the Harehexpally.
13 str, 14 dex, 12 con, 8 int, 10 wis, 15 cha, + racial abilities. +2 to con +1 to ch (or however you want to distribute similarly) gets 13, 14, 14, 8, 10, 16. The wis saves at a +2 because of proficiency bonus isn't ideal, but it's manageable and aura of protection kicks in at pally 6 (potentially as early as character 7). That's fairly minimal and you could even start with chainmail if you start. If you were planning on getting a half feat with dex at some point (or any half feat and a split ASI) you could start with a 13 dex instead.
But if the build is touting initiative starting with a 14 isnt really impressive I guess....especially since you dont get the Aura of the Sentinel until level 7 pally....so you get +2 DEX and +3 Prof. for a +5...which is worse than if you just go pally 8, max DEX, and get your CHA bonus (likely +3) to be a +8 which is just better.
So you give everyone else a +3 which is good but you get a +8 instead.
That's why Harengon for species, since Harengon lets you add your proficiency bonus to initiative roll every battle. It's called Hare-Trigger.
Of course, you could go directly thru Paladin, pass Go, and collect $200, but then you miss out on Devil's Sight and Hexblade's Curse for CHA-boost to damage. Also, the chance to get Booming/Green Flame Blade is good for a Paladin more focused on control than on big smite damage.
That's why Harengon for species, since Harengon lets you add your proficiency bonus to initiative roll every battle. It's called Hare-Trigger.
Of course, you could go directly thru Paladin, pass Go, and collect $200, but then you miss out on Devil's Sight and Hexblade's Curse for CHA-boost to damage. Also, the chance to get Booming/Green Flame Blade is good for a Paladin more focused on control than on big smite damage.
You get higher level paladin spells, the sentinel aura (your build doesn't even have it yet at level 8), and get improved divine smite quicker on all enemies not just those you curse.
You can pick rabbit with the straight pally build and have better initiative than your build as well.
I guess if the point is to get better initiative I don't see why your build is good? It lacks the aura ability you talk about, has a low Dex, and doesn't add all that much stuff with warlock that would even impact the build towards initiative....
Okay, sorry, I misread the Aura. It comes online at Level 7, so 2 levels Hexblade, and 7 levels Paladin. With point buy, you can start 13 STR, 14 DEX, 14 CON, 8 INT, 10 WIS, and 16 CHA. The point is to get CHA based attack and damage while also having a +2 to DEX AND get Devil's Sight, which you would otherwise have to spend a feat on. The 2 levels of Warlock also let you get Shield and Booming or Green Flame Blade, which are not on the Paladin spell list. Big smite damage isn't the point. This is intentionally a first strike Paladin meant to work with other stealth/high initiative PCs. Paladin spell progression is slow anyway. Using 2 levels for Hexblade doesn't hurt as you think it does because CHA is the Paladin's spellcasting stat and you want higher CHA to include more creatures in your Level 7 Aura.
Okay, sorry, I misread the Aura. It comes online at Level 7, so 2 levels Hexblade, and 7 levels Paladin. With point buy, you can start 13 STR, 14 DEX, 14 CON, 8 INT, 10 WIS, and 16 CHA. The point is to get CHA based attack and damage while also having a +2 to DEX AND get Devil's Sight, which you would otherwise have to spend a feat on. The 2 levels of Warlock also let you get Shield and Booming or Green Flame Blade, which are not on the Paladin spell list. Big smite damage isn't the point. This is intentionally a first strike Paladin meant to work with other stealth/high initiative PCs. Paladin spell progression is slow anyway. Using 2 levels for Hexblade doesn't hurt as you think it does because CHA is the Paladin's spellcasting stat and you want higher CHA to include more creatures in your Level 7 Aura.
That does make more sense but then you are not getting that level 7 aura until level 10....
I mean, you have to sacrifice something regardless. If you go pure Paladin with Point Buy, you could start with +1 WIS probably, and an odd DEX score, but then you'd have to spend a feat on Eldritch Adept for Devil's Sight. I kinda feel like Warcaster is more important feat for a control-focused Pally than Eldritch Adept if I can get Devil's Sight by dipping 2 levels in Warlock.
Over this entire thread no one mentioned monks. They are super versatile and can be minmaxed very easily. Centaur monk who follows the way of the astral self or some other powerful subclass with 2 levels in rogue can move 30 feet towards an enemy, beat them up then run 40 feet away, out of range for most melee enemies. Not considering all the other posiible builds or any specific actions other than the rogue's BA disengage which can be avoided if you spend some ki.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
[roll]7d6[/roll]
Every post these dice roll increasing my chances of winning the yahtzee thread (I wish (wait not the twist the wish threa-!))
Over this entire thread no one mentioned monks. They are super versatile and can be minmaxed very easily. Centaur monk who follows the way of the astral self or some other powerful subclass with 2 levels in rogue can move 30 feet towards an enemy, beat them up then run 40 feet away, out of range for most melee enemies. Not considering all the other posiible builds or any specific actions other than the rogue's BA disengage which can be avoided if you spend some ki.
Most people regard monks as one of the weaker classes (mostly due to limited ki) and if you look at the monk section of the forum you will see several threads about how t o"fix" the monk by increasing its power. The fact that you say astral self "or some other powerful subclass" indicates even you believe Astral Self does not stand out as a super powerful subclass for monks.
Running running towards an enemy beating them up and running away again isn't thart much different from another class attacking them from range. In my experiance monks are perfectly viable and can be optimised in the same way as other classes. Astral self is a decent sub class though mercy, long death and open hand are probably more powerful there is certainly nothing broken about them in the same way that there is with twilight cleric.
People crap on a phb beastmaster but Following raw rules It only takes 1d6 Min to harvest a poison use from any poisonous creature and all harvested injury poisons last until a hit.
If they take a flying snake, a ranger can add 3d4+ prof poison Damage to every weapon for one attack and every single piece of piercing ammunition for the whole party. You can even add it to caltrops and cordon of arrows and they stack with spike growth.
Meaning if you can get an enemy to step into your trap. on an ambush round you will get.
a caltrop Dex save for 1+3d4+prof
Cordon of arrows DEX save 1d6+ 3d4+prof
a spikegrowth 2d4 damage for at least 1 ft of movement (maybe more)
All your regular attack damage (Probably 2) With 3d4+ prof added to each. (Probably with sharpshooter+ archery fighting style)
(3d4+ prof damage) X the number of allies attacks that use poison on their weapons. (note paladins may complain due to ethics)
If you took a different pet you have the chance at higher damage but its gated behind a save. so it could be a good way to burn legendary resistance in one turn. (note: only about 37% of creatures with legendary resistance are immune to poison damage that means 63% of the time it will work On a BBGE )
You just need 13 WIS. This is easy to get with point-buy. Not MAD at all. By the time your ArtiChron starts getting charmed, frightened, paralyzed and dominated because he has 0 WIS save, you’ll probably regret. And your fellow Cleric Wizard is nailing +4 or +5 on WIS saves laughing because he didn’t need to spend Counterspell on a Hold Person that would probably kill him.
Let’s be honest, good concentration spells starts appearing by level 2 (Hold Person, Levitate, Web). Before that you have what? Fog Cloud? Silent Image? Hideous Laugher? Is Artificer so superior because it helps you keep concentration on Fog Cloud since level 1? By the time you get your first feat and invest in Resilient CON, you are now strictly superior and the only opportunity cost was one level worrying to keep Web up. Right positioning, cover and obscurement can do wonders for you.
Artificer Wizard at level 6 would probably have INT 18, DEX 14, CON 16 and WIS 12? CON save +6, WIS save +1.
Cleric Wizard at level 6 would have INT 16, DEX 14, CON 16 (rounded with Resilient) and WIS 13. CON save +6, WIS save +4.
To start, the Artificer causes your spell slot progression to fall behind a half a level, which for me means you need a really compelling reason. Cleric also gives you some great choices for domain features. The Con save proficiency is preferable to Wis for a spellcaster, but Wis comes in second.
With only a 1 level dip, you can choose from a great list spells like Bless that don't rely on Wisdom, so that's a non-issue.
As a total package, in my opinion a Cleric dip is the clear winner.
Yep, it's an efficient power gamed approach for those willing to start as a low wisdom cleric for their projected Cleric 1/Wizard 19, high int build.
For me it all depends on how it is combined with race, Feat, weapons, and class ability ( like reckless attack). I remain in the position that the most powerful subclasses are Arcana trickster, Totem Warrior, Brute.
Totem Warior Bear
Feats: Great Weapon Master, Polearm Master
Se lo mischi con brute diventa un abberrazione.
Brute Archer
Archery. You gain a +2 bonus to attack rolls you make with ranged weapons.
Feats: Sharpshooter, Crossbow Expert
Arcana Trickster:
Versatile Trickster
Feats: Elven Accuracy, Savage Attacker, Mobile, Defensive Duelist
Spells: Green-Flame Blade or Shadow Blade
If you take 2 to 6 levels of Blade singer is not bad.
And not even having to wait that long. Right at level 2 (1 Cleric, 1 Wizard) you're up and running as a full armored Wizard, carrying a shield, with the same amount of spell slots. At level 5 (1 Cleric, 4 Wizard) it hurts a bit not to have those lovely 3rd level spells, but again you still have the 3rd level spell slots. So 2nd level spells like Hold person and Blindness Deafness, you can use the 3rd level spell slots to make them target two creatures instead of one.
I haven't bothered to read the replies but I do think some subclasses worth talking about inside the classes mentioned above would be Lore Bard, Aberrant & Divine Sorcerer, and Bladesinger & Divination Wizard.
It should be noted that Artificer doesn't lose you spell slot progression on a 1 level dip since it's rounded up instead of rounded down like Paladin and Ranger. You don't lose spell slot progression until Artificer 2 as a result. Cleric doesn't gain anything over Artificer in that regard with a 1 level dip.
Both Peace and Twilight domains are OP if the rest of your party know how to take advantage of their low level features.
On a different note, The Oath of the Watchers Paladin can be quite strong by buffing initiative of the party. While this is not OP most of the time, if the players synergize their builds, you can steamroll most opponents in just 1 round of combat. Hexblade 2 + Watchers Paladin 6 on a Harengon lets you be a DEX and CHA Paladin with minimal investment in STR. The reason to do this is to improve your Stealth game. Pick Devil's Sight Invoc. With reasonably high DEX and medium armor, you become the final piece to a Gloomstalker/Assassin/Shadow Monk/Trickery Cleric/War Wizard party due to all-around boost to Initiative where almost everyone goes before the opponent and half the party gets a major damage boost on the first round.
Technically you cannot MC without the 13 STR for the Harehexpally.
13 str, 14 dex, 12 con, 8 int, 10 wis, 15 cha, + racial abilities. +2 to con +1 to ch (or however you want to distribute similarly) gets 13, 14, 14, 8, 10, 16. The wis saves at a +2 because of proficiency bonus isn't ideal, but it's manageable and aura of protection kicks in at pally 6 (potentially as early as character 7). That's fairly minimal and you could even start with chainmail if you start. If you were planning on getting a half feat with dex at some point (or any half feat and a split ASI) you could start with a 13 dex instead.
But if the build is touting initiative starting with a 14 isnt really impressive I guess....especially since you dont get the Aura of the Sentinel until level 7 pally....so you get +2 DEX and +3 Prof. for a +5...which is worse than if you just go pally 8, max DEX, and get your CHA bonus (likely +3) to be a +8 which is just better.
So you give everyone else a +3 which is good but you get a +8 instead.
That's why Harengon for species, since Harengon lets you add your proficiency bonus to initiative roll every battle. It's called Hare-Trigger.
Of course, you could go directly thru Paladin, pass Go, and collect $200, but then you miss out on Devil's Sight and Hexblade's Curse for CHA-boost to damage. Also, the chance to get Booming/Green Flame Blade is good for a Paladin more focused on control than on big smite damage.
You get higher level paladin spells, the sentinel aura (your build doesn't even have it yet at level 8), and get improved divine smite quicker on all enemies not just those you curse.
You can pick rabbit with the straight pally build and have better initiative than your build as well.
I guess if the point is to get better initiative I don't see why your build is good? It lacks the aura ability you talk about, has a low Dex, and doesn't add all that much stuff with warlock that would even impact the build towards initiative....
Okay, sorry, I misread the Aura. It comes online at Level 7, so 2 levels Hexblade, and 7 levels Paladin. With point buy, you can start 13 STR, 14 DEX, 14 CON, 8 INT, 10 WIS, and 16 CHA. The point is to get CHA based attack and damage while also having a +2 to DEX AND get Devil's Sight, which you would otherwise have to spend a feat on. The 2 levels of Warlock also let you get Shield and Booming or Green Flame Blade, which are not on the Paladin spell list. Big smite damage isn't the point. This is intentionally a first strike Paladin meant to work with other stealth/high initiative PCs. Paladin spell progression is slow anyway. Using 2 levels for Hexblade doesn't hurt as you think it does because CHA is the Paladin's spellcasting stat and you want higher CHA to include more creatures in your Level 7 Aura.
That does make more sense but then you are not getting that level 7 aura until level 10....
Which 90% of games are over by then.
Just a thought...
I mean, you have to sacrifice something regardless. If you go pure Paladin with Point Buy, you could start with +1 WIS probably, and an odd DEX score, but then you'd have to spend a feat on Eldritch Adept for Devil's Sight. I kinda feel like Warcaster is more important feat for a control-focused Pally than Eldritch Adept if I can get Devil's Sight by dipping 2 levels in Warlock.
Actually, level 9. Seven levels Paladin + 2 levels Warlock is 9 levels total.
Over this entire thread no one mentioned monks. They are super versatile and can be minmaxed very easily. Centaur monk who follows the way of the astral self or some other powerful subclass with 2 levels in rogue can move 30 feet towards an enemy, beat them up then run 40 feet away, out of range for most melee enemies. Not considering all the other posiible builds or any specific actions other than the rogue's BA disengage which can be avoided if you spend some ki.
[roll]7d6[/roll]
Every post these dice roll increasing my chances of winning the yahtzee thread (I wish (wait not the twist the wish threa-!))
Drummer Generated Title
After having been invited to include both here, I now combine the "PM me CHEESE 🧀 and tomato into PM me "PIZZA🍕"
Most people regard monks as one of the weaker classes (mostly due to limited ki) and if you look at the monk section of the forum you will see several threads about how t o"fix" the monk by increasing its power. The fact that you say astral self "or some other powerful subclass" indicates even you believe Astral Self does not stand out as a super powerful subclass for monks.
Running running towards an enemy beating them up and running away again isn't thart much different from another class attacking them from range. In my experiance monks are perfectly viable and can be optimised in the same way as other classes. Astral self is a decent sub class though mercy, long death and open hand are probably more powerful there is certainly nothing broken about them in the same way that there is with twilight cleric.
People crap on a phb beastmaster but Following raw rules It only takes 1d6 Min to harvest a poison use from any poisonous creature and all harvested injury poisons last until a hit.
If they take a flying snake, a ranger can add 3d4+ prof poison Damage to every weapon for one attack and every single piece of piercing ammunition for the whole party. You can even add it to caltrops and cordon of arrows and they stack with spike growth.
If you took a different pet you have the chance at higher damage but its gated behind a save. so it could be a good way to burn legendary resistance in one turn. (note: only about 37% of creatures with legendary resistance are immune to poison damage that means 63% of the time it will work On a BBGE )