Old dragons are spell casters amazing what a wish a day can accomplish
RAW they can't learn level 9 spells; the sidebar says the spells they know can have a level no more than 1/3 of their CR, rounded down. Highest CR I see for MM dragons is 24.
Old dragons are spell casters amazing what a wish a day can accomplish
Once a day, save you from dying to a single AMRAAM missile*. Too bad even the humble f-16 carries 5 more. And a 20mm vulcan cannon that will shred tanks, planes - and dragons - at 3 km. Even if we bend our minds out of shape to make it a fair fight - say, divide the world in two, one half to dragons, the other to humans, then say we have not equal numbers but equal mass (I dunno, 200 humans pr dragon or some such) ... drogons still get annihilated within a week. It's not any sort of contest, what so ever.
Dragons might be super impressive in a fight against anything that ever got close enough. But even a ponderously slow Merkava (it isn't slow by it's Wiki, but as I hear it, it's way too heavy for it's engine - I dunno?!), can fire something like 6 shots a minute of 120mm cannon rounds over 6 km distance, with firecontrols accurate enough to propably hit a speeding dragon in flight.
There. Is. No. Contest. Modern military power way, way outstrips anything a fantasy monster can output.
* And then, when the dragons strength is reduced to 3, it drops like a stone, but ironically bursts on impact like a cantaloupe.
Blanket disclaimer: I only ever state opinion. But I can sound terribly dogmatic - so if you feel I'm trying to tell you what to think, I'm really not, I swear. I'm telling you what I think, that's all.
Anyone who thinks humans could win forgets dragons can shapechange. You think humans control the nukes? Nope. Our enslavement would happen quickly.
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I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
Anyone who thinks humans could win forgets dragons can shapechange. You think humans control the nukes? Nope. Our enslavement would happen quickly.
Shapechange is not mind control. Humans do not win because we have nukes, we win because we BUILT nukes. Dragons sit around, hating each other, hording gold. They do not trust each other, they do not join with each other, they do not create plans to defeat humans, they think they already have.
Humans run around thinking, creating, building. Dragons are the DUMBEST high int creatures around. Despite the stats, they do nothing with their intelligence. Dragons would under no circumstances attempt to control any human weapons. At best they would try to destroy them.
Anyone who thinks humans could win forgets dragons can shapechange. You think humans control the nukes? Nope. Our enslavement would happen quickly.
Maybe that could be true. It's certainly a point one could argue - and there are any number of counters. But that's not the question. The question is, who'd win in a fight. And that answer is quite clear. Dragons would have precisely zero chance.
So dragons can shape change. Arguably, in such a world, so could humans. But never mind that. Let's assume a few dragons can shape change. If we go by my above example of using total mass as a measure. So ... well, what would that mean? Maybe a score dragons can shape change? Who knows, maybe it's more, but so what. Do you imagine being able to shape change guarantees some sort of victory? How?
Dragon looks human - ergo dragon controls nukes. How do you arrive at that conclusion? I look human, and I control absolutely no nukes.
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Blanket disclaimer: I only ever state opinion. But I can sound terribly dogmatic - so if you feel I'm trying to tell you what to think, I'm really not, I swear. I'm telling you what I think, that's all.
I bet my great wyrm draco lich kills all humans on earth before he dies.
With in the first 6 seconds I have teleported to Mars or the moon or Pluto, then every 24 hours I will inflict environmental devastation earth quakes s tsunami volcanic eruptions. Every 24 hours. You have 6 seconds to identify me and kill me. The shock of a dragon appearing likely will take more then six seconds
I bet my great wyrm draco lich kills all humans on earth before he dies.
With in the first 6 seconds I have teleported to Mars or the moon or Pluto, then every 24 hours I will inflict environmental devastation earth quakes s tsunami volcanic eruptions. Every 24 hours. You have 6 seconds to identify me and kill me. The shock of a dragon appearing likely will take more then six seconds
Nah. Within a few days you'd have roaming fighters and fighter-bombers above all major population centers. It still takes just a single strike - although there'd be many - from an air-to-air missile to end that. You'd get a few days, sure. Hey, let's even call it a month, before all the right planes are in the right place when your dracolich ports in.
And then it all ends, in substantially less than 6 seconds.
Also, your timing is way off. You port in, cast your 9th level spell, then port out. That's closer to 18 seconds. Not that it matter at all.
But all in all, 30 days of very, very minor mayhem. And that's being generous. As an aside, you could to that, every day for a thousand years, and it wouldn't impact human populations at all. 385000 babies are born every day on the planet. If I had to guess, you'd be lucky to kill even 1000 with any spell in the book. So ... no. Dragons still lose hard. No contest what so ever.
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Blanket disclaimer: I only ever state opinion. But I can sound terribly dogmatic - so if you feel I'm trying to tell you what to think, I'm really not, I swear. I'm telling you what I think, that's all.
Old dragons are spell casters amazing what a wish a day can accomplish
Once a day, save you from dying to a single AMRAAM missile*. Too bad even the humble f-16 carries 5 more. And a 20mm vulcan cannon that will shred tanks, planes - and dragons - at 3 km. Even if we bend our minds out of shape to make it a fair fight - say, divide the world in two, one half to dragons, the other to humans, then say we have not equal numbers but equal mass (I dunno, 200 humans pr dragon or some such) ... drogons still get annihilated within a week. It's not any sort of contest, what so ever.
Dragons might be super impressive in a fight against anything that ever got close enough. But even a ponderously slow Merkava (it isn't slow by it's Wiki, but as I hear it, it's way too heavy for it's engine - I dunno?!), can fire something like 6 shots a minute of 120mm cannon rounds over 6 km distance, with firecontrols accurate enough to propably hit a speeding dragon in flight.
There. Is. No. Contest. Modern military power way, way outstrips anything a fantasy monster can output.
* And then, when the dragons strength is reduced to 3, it drops like a stone, but ironically bursts on impact like a cantaloupe.
Most dragons that are old enough to cast wish would ether be shapedchanged into a human so it is almost undedectible. or in a very remote location that ,at the very least, would take a week or so to find. by then the dragon could have wished for anything ,and the humans will be drastically weakened
Anyone who thinks humans could win forgets dragons can shapechange. You think humans control the nukes? Nope. Our enslavement would happen quickly.
Shapechange is not mind control. Humans do not win because we have nukes, we win because we BUILT nukes. Dragons sit around, hating each other, hording gold. They do not trust each other, they do not join with each other, they do not create plans to defeat humans, they think they already have.
Humans run around thinking, creating, building. Dragons are the DUMBEST high int creatures around. Despite the stats, they do nothing with their intelligence. Dragons would under no circumstances attempt to control any human weapons. At best they would try to destroy them.
Humans aren't going to launch nukes though. Or even order the military to strike.
Because a dragon can shapechange. They can easily infiltrate and replace all upper levels of all governments.
They'd win the fight before most people even realized there was a fight.
Anyone who thinks humans could win forgets dragons can shapechange. You think humans control the nukes? Nope. Our enslavement would happen quickly.
Maybe that could be true. It's certainly a point one could argue - and there are any number of counters. But that's not the question. The question is, who'd win in a fight. And that answer is quite clear. Dragons would have precisely zero chance.
So dragons can shape change. Arguably, in such a world, so could humans. But never mind that. Let's assume a few dragons can shape change. If we go by my above example of using total mass as a measure. So ... well, what would that mean? Maybe a score dragons can shape change? Who knows, maybe it's more, but so what. Do you imagine being able to shape change guarantees some sort of victory? How?
Dragon looks human - ergo dragon controls nukes. How do you arrive at that conclusion? I look human, and I control absolutely no nukes.
Humans are shapechangers? I don't think you have a good grasp on what hypothetical situation we're talking about. IRL people don't have magic spells or supernatural abilities.
Anyway, the dragon wouldn't shapechange to look like you. He'd shapechange to replace the guy who IS in charge of stuff. High ranking general? Eat him and replace him. President? Replaced. Chairman? Replaced. One dragon could even pretend to be several different people if he's careful about it.
How many people would you need to replace to take over the world? It isn't that many. And so there would only need to be just a few less dragons to do it.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
Anyone who thinks humans could win forgets dragons can shapechange. You think humans control the nukes? Nope. Our enslavement would happen quickly.
Shapechange is not mind control. Humans do not win because we have nukes, we win because we BUILT nukes. Dragons sit around, hating each other, hording gold. They do not trust each other, they do not join with each other, they do not create plans to defeat humans, they think they already have.
Humans run around thinking, creating, building. Dragons are the DUMBEST high int creatures around. Despite the stats, they do nothing with their intelligence. Dragons would under no circumstances attempt to control any human weapons. At best they would try to destroy them.
Humans aren't going to launch nukes though. Or even order the military to strike.
Because a dragon can shapechange. They can easily infiltrate and replace all upper levels of all governments.
They'd win the fight before most people even realized there was a fight.
Anyone who thinks humans could win forgets dragons can shapechange. You think humans control the nukes? Nope. Our enslavement would happen quickly.
Maybe that could be true. It's certainly a point one could argue - and there are any number of counters. But that's not the question. The question is, who'd win in a fight. And that answer is quite clear. Dragons would have precisely zero chance.
So dragons can shape change. Arguably, in such a world, so could humans. But never mind that. Let's assume a few dragons can shape change. If we go by my above example of using total mass as a measure. So ... well, what would that mean? Maybe a score dragons can shape change? Who knows, maybe it's more, but so what. Do you imagine being able to shape change guarantees some sort of victory? How?
Dragon looks human - ergo dragon controls nukes. How do you arrive at that conclusion? I look human, and I control absolutely no nukes.
Humans are shapechangers? I don't think you have a good grasp on what hypothetical situation we're talking about. IRL people don't have magic spells or supernatural abilities.
Anyway, the dragon wouldn't shapechange to look like you. He'd shapechange to replace the guy who IS in charge of stuff. High ranking general? Eat him and replace him. President? Replaced. Chairman? Replaced. One dragon could even pretend to be several different people if he's careful about it.
How many people would you need to replace to take over the world? It isn't that many. And so there would only need to be just a few less dragons to do it.
This is true but that also means that the good dragons win who would be better at leading humans then humans
I don't need to port in once I pop out I can hide on the other planet while taking potshots at earth everyday with wish, scrying and sending to cause chaos.
Most dragons that are old enough to cast wish would ether be shapedchanged into a human so it is almost undedectible. or in a very remote location that ,at the very least, would take a week or so to find. by then the dragon could have wished for anything ,and the humans will be drastically weakened
Humans are shapechangers? I don't think you have a good grasp on what hypothetical situation we're talking about. IRL people don't have magic spells or supernatural abilities.
Anyway, the dragon wouldn't shapechange to look like you. He'd shapechange to replace the guy who IS in charge of stuff. High ranking general? Eat him and replace him. President? Replaced. Chairman? Replaced. One dragon could even pretend to be several different people if he's careful about it.
How many people would you need to replace to take over the world? It isn't that many. And so there would only need to be just a few less dragons to do it.
I don't need to port in once I pop out I can hide on the other planet while taking potshots at earth everyday with wish, scrying and sending to cause chaos.
I'm just going to lump these together.
Shape change is a dead end. Dopplegangers are better at it, and they'd still stand no chance at all. They can look like the president, and even absorb a bit of knowledge, but they still can't pass a retinal or fingerprint scan. They don't know the passwords. Maybe they know the name of the first lady (maybe), but they don't know the name of the bodyguard, or know the standard procedure for signing treaties or talking to the secretary of state. They're just going to be found out and killed.
Replacing leaders works great as a plot device in a movie or novel - but in real life, it would fail miserably. I couldn't replace my boss. I might look identical to her (you know, if I could shape change), and know much of her mannerisms, but I couldn't even log on her laptop. I don't know where she keeps her keys. I don't know her address. Simply looking like someone doesn't achieve a damned thing. It just .. get's you killed.
Wish doesn't do anything meaningful. You burn the wish, then you die.
Teleport allows you to run away. That's not how you win a fight, it's how you lose.
In the end, tech beats magic, hands down. Every trick in the grimoire just let's you do something vaguely impressive for one round, and then you die. Whereas 8 billion humans with tech kill dragons with pretty much the same ease we kill humans.
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Blanket disclaimer: I only ever state opinion. But I can sound terribly dogmatic - so if you feel I'm trying to tell you what to think, I'm really not, I swear. I'm telling you what I think, that's all.
Have a good aligned dragon appear in New York City, give it death ward, greater invisibility and wall of force, what are they gonna do? Nuke one of the most heavily visited cities in the USA? Even if they did, wall of force can eat most missiles that may be used, with death ward potentially allowing the dragon to survive a face on collision with a nuke and it's initial blast, if it manages to get through the wall of force.
Why would anyone use nukes? Nukes are a dumb weapon anyways, but a simple amraam air-to-air missile should handily kill a dragon. If not one, then two. Or hell, let's call it three. That still means even an F-16 would kill two dragons before returning to base, and there's absolut nothing the dragon can do about it.
Oh, sure, let's assume occasionally a dragon manages to place a wall of force in the path of an incoming missile. Fine. No objections. But like I said, there's three of them, and they don't follow the same course, and even if they did, there's thousands upon thousands of missiles, and only so many spell slots.
Dragons just don't have any chance. They have no way to attack at the ranges that a fighter jet can, and only extremely limited options to defend. They can't win.
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Blanket disclaimer: I only ever state opinion. But I can sound terribly dogmatic - so if you feel I'm trying to tell you what to think, I'm really not, I swear. I'm telling you what I think, that's all.
Also, this discussion no longer seems to be 'who'd win a fight, dragons or humans'. It seems now to be a discussion of 'could a wizard take over the world (also maybe the wizard is a dragon).' Which is a different discussion. And my initial answer is still no. It's much iffier though. Do wizards have tricks up their sleeves that might give them a shot? Sure. Will they succeed? Doubtful.
But how about a bard? Someone specialised in social engineering, lying, subterfuge, information gathering. Maybe a changeling bard, on top? Could that work? Sure, it's not impossible.
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Blanket disclaimer: I only ever state opinion. But I can sound terribly dogmatic - so if you feel I'm trying to tell you what to think, I'm really not, I swear. I'm telling you what I think, that's all.
Also, this discussion no longer seems to be 'who'd win a fight, dragons or humans'. It seems now to be a discussion of 'could a wizard take over the world (also maybe the wizard is a dragon).' Which is a different discussion. And my initial answer is still no. It's much iffier though. Do wizards have tricks up their sleeves that might give them a shot? Sure. Will they succeed? Doubtful.
But how about a bard? Someone specialised in social engineering, lying, subterfuge, information gathering. Maybe a changeling bard, on top? Could that work? Sure, it's not impossible.
We are talking about modern, ACTUAL HUMANS, NOT your level 20 bard! dragons have literal gods! they would kill us ALL!!!
Not to mention that flying isn’t their greatest ability, those that can tunnel and swim are the most dangerous. Think of a tank that can fly and are smarter than humans can ever be. With some having the capability to cast spells, send meteors and kill every political leader in the world by walking up to them without even being seen by anyone.
Not to mention that flying isn’t their greatest ability, those that can tunnel and swim are the most dangerous. Think of a tank that can fly and are smarter than humans can ever be. With some having the capability to cast spells, send meteors and kill every political leader in the world by walking up to them without even being seen by anyone.
That sounds super impressive until you realise they'd never get to do any of that, they'd die long before that. We've been over that, I'm not going to make the same argument again.
We are talking about modern, ACTUAL HUMANS, NOT your level 20 bard! dragons have literal gods! they would kill us ALL!!!
I'm sorry. If you get to define the dragons - I get to define the humans. I really hope you see that?
Also, it's either humans v dragons, or anything v anything. Humans have gods too my friend. So either we keep it in a place where there's something to discuss - humans versus dragons - or we let it slip into the realm of nonsense and madness. I'll be party to the first discussion, but not the second.
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Blanket disclaimer: I only ever state opinion. But I can sound terribly dogmatic - so if you feel I'm trying to tell you what to think, I'm really not, I swear. I'm telling you what I think, that's all.
Not to mention that flying isn’t their greatest ability, those that can tunnel and swim are the most dangerous. Think of a tank that can fly and are smarter than humans can ever be. With some having the capability to cast spells, send meteors and kill every political leader in the world by walking up to them without even being seen by anyone.
That sounds super impressive until you realise they'd never get to do any of that, they'd die long before that. We've been over that, I'm not going to make the same argument again.
We are talking about modern, ACTUAL HUMANS, NOT your level 20 bard! dragons have literal gods! they would kill us ALL!!!
I'm sorry. If you get to define the dragons - I get to define the humans. I really hope you see that?
Also, it's either humans v dragons, or anything v anything. Humans have gods too my friend. So either we keep it in a place where there's something to discuss - humans versus dragons - or we let it slip into the realm of nonsense and madness. I'll be party to the first discussion, but not the second.
Remember, it’s the modern day military, we are assuming that the entire world is involved, if that’s the case, we use every dragon. Now, gods in DnD are MUCH more active and physically there than real life religions, look at Dragonlance and Balder's gate, but since gods in DnD don’t transfer power in different worlds, they probably won’t factor. So we also have to note that if humans get to use guns, missiles and the like, dragons will potentially get access to stupid ass spells and their full potential as well.
Yes, I agree most dragons would get obliterated at first, but at least a fraction survive due to how tanky they are. And those that survive can take years if not decades hiding and planning, which yes is not the most dragon thing, would be more likely when they realise that they are outnumbered and outgunned by several magnitudes. If we factor the dragon spellcasting, a greatwyrm could shapechange into a creature immune to regular firepower, like krakens, Coutls, Androsphixes and Rashakas. Which would be completely immune toa good amount of conventional methods of harm that doesn’t involve sonic waves and fire.
RAW they can't learn level 9 spells; the sidebar says the spells they know can have a level no more than 1/3 of their CR, rounded down. Highest CR I see for MM dragons is 24.
A great wyrm from fisbans can.
Once a day, save you from dying to a single AMRAAM missile*. Too bad even the humble f-16 carries 5 more. And a 20mm vulcan cannon that will shred tanks, planes - and dragons - at 3 km. Even if we bend our minds out of shape to make it a fair fight - say, divide the world in two, one half to dragons, the other to humans, then say we have not equal numbers but equal mass (I dunno, 200 humans pr dragon or some such) ... drogons still get annihilated within a week. It's not any sort of contest, what so ever.
Dragons might be super impressive in a fight against anything that ever got close enough. But even a ponderously slow Merkava (it isn't slow by it's Wiki, but as I hear it, it's way too heavy for it's engine - I dunno?!), can fire something like 6 shots a minute of 120mm cannon rounds over 6 km distance, with firecontrols accurate enough to propably hit a speeding dragon in flight.
There. Is. No. Contest. Modern military power way, way outstrips anything a fantasy monster can output.
* And then, when the dragons strength is reduced to 3, it drops like a stone, but ironically bursts on impact like a cantaloupe.
Blanket disclaimer: I only ever state opinion. But I can sound terribly dogmatic - so if you feel I'm trying to tell you what to think, I'm really not, I swear. I'm telling you what I think, that's all.
Anyone who thinks humans could win forgets dragons can shapechange. You think humans control the nukes? Nope. Our enslavement would happen quickly.
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
Shapechange is not mind control. Humans do not win because we have nukes, we win because we BUILT nukes. Dragons sit around, hating each other, hording gold. They do not trust each other, they do not join with each other, they do not create plans to defeat humans, they think they already have.
Humans run around thinking, creating, building. Dragons are the DUMBEST high int creatures around. Despite the stats, they do nothing with their intelligence. Dragons would under no circumstances attempt to control any human weapons. At best they would try to destroy them.
Maybe that could be true. It's certainly a point one could argue - and there are any number of counters. But that's not the question. The question is, who'd win in a fight. And that answer is quite clear. Dragons would have precisely zero chance.
So dragons can shape change. Arguably, in such a world, so could humans. But never mind that. Let's assume a few dragons can shape change. If we go by my above example of using total mass as a measure. So ... well, what would that mean? Maybe a score dragons can shape change? Who knows, maybe it's more, but so what. Do you imagine being able to shape change guarantees some sort of victory? How?
Dragon looks human - ergo dragon controls nukes. How do you arrive at that conclusion? I look human, and I control absolutely no nukes.
Blanket disclaimer: I only ever state opinion. But I can sound terribly dogmatic - so if you feel I'm trying to tell you what to think, I'm really not, I swear. I'm telling you what I think, that's all.
I bet my great wyrm draco lich kills all humans on earth before he dies.
With in the first 6 seconds I have teleported to Mars or the moon or Pluto, then every 24 hours I will inflict environmental devastation earth quakes s tsunami volcanic eruptions. Every 24 hours. You have 6 seconds to identify me and kill me. The shock of a dragon appearing likely will take more then six seconds
Nah. Within a few days you'd have roaming fighters and fighter-bombers above all major population centers. It still takes just a single strike - although there'd be many - from an air-to-air missile to end that. You'd get a few days, sure. Hey, let's even call it a month, before all the right planes are in the right place when your dracolich ports in.
And then it all ends, in substantially less than 6 seconds.
Also, your timing is way off. You port in, cast your 9th level spell, then port out. That's closer to 18 seconds. Not that it matter at all.
But all in all, 30 days of very, very minor mayhem. And that's being generous. As an aside, you could to that, every day for a thousand years, and it wouldn't impact human populations at all. 385000 babies are born every day on the planet. If I had to guess, you'd be lucky to kill even 1000 with any spell in the book. So ... no. Dragons still lose hard. No contest what so ever.
Blanket disclaimer: I only ever state opinion. But I can sound terribly dogmatic - so if you feel I'm trying to tell you what to think, I'm really not, I swear. I'm telling you what I think, that's all.
Most dragons that are old enough to cast wish would ether be shapedchanged into a human so it is almost undedectible. or in a very remote location that ,at the very least, would take a week or so to find. by then the dragon could have wished for anything ,and the humans will be drastically weakened
Humans aren't going to launch nukes though. Or even order the military to strike.
Because a dragon can shapechange. They can easily infiltrate and replace all upper levels of all governments.
They'd win the fight before most people even realized there was a fight.
Humans are shapechangers? I don't think you have a good grasp on what hypothetical situation we're talking about. IRL people don't have magic spells or supernatural abilities.
Anyway, the dragon wouldn't shapechange to look like you. He'd shapechange to replace the guy who IS in charge of stuff. High ranking general? Eat him and replace him. President? Replaced. Chairman? Replaced. One dragon could even pretend to be several different people if he's careful about it.
How many people would you need to replace to take over the world? It isn't that many. And so there would only need to be just a few less dragons to do it.
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
This is true but that also means that the good dragons win who would be better at leading humans then humans
I don't need to port in once I pop out I can hide on the other planet while taking potshots at earth everyday with wish, scrying and sending to cause chaos.
I'm just going to lump these together.
Shape change is a dead end. Dopplegangers are better at it, and they'd still stand no chance at all. They can look like the president, and even absorb a bit of knowledge, but they still can't pass a retinal or fingerprint scan. They don't know the passwords. Maybe they know the name of the first lady (maybe), but they don't know the name of the bodyguard, or know the standard procedure for signing treaties or talking to the secretary of state. They're just going to be found out and killed.
Replacing leaders works great as a plot device in a movie or novel - but in real life, it would fail miserably. I couldn't replace my boss. I might look identical to her (you know, if I could shape change), and know much of her mannerisms, but I couldn't even log on her laptop. I don't know where she keeps her keys. I don't know her address. Simply looking like someone doesn't achieve a damned thing. It just .. get's you killed.
Wish doesn't do anything meaningful. You burn the wish, then you die.
Teleport allows you to run away. That's not how you win a fight, it's how you lose.
In the end, tech beats magic, hands down. Every trick in the grimoire just let's you do something vaguely impressive for one round, and then you die. Whereas 8 billion humans with tech kill dragons with pretty much the same ease we kill humans.
Blanket disclaimer: I only ever state opinion. But I can sound terribly dogmatic - so if you feel I'm trying to tell you what to think, I'm really not, I swear. I'm telling you what I think, that's all.
Have a good aligned dragon appear in New York City, give it death ward, greater invisibility and wall of force, what are they gonna do? Nuke one of the most heavily visited cities in the USA? Even if they did, wall of force can eat most missiles that may be used, with death ward potentially allowing the dragon to survive a face on collision with a nuke and it's initial blast, if it manages to get through the wall of force.
Why would anyone use nukes? Nukes are a dumb weapon anyways, but a simple amraam air-to-air missile should handily kill a dragon. If not one, then two. Or hell, let's call it three. That still means even an F-16 would kill two dragons before returning to base, and there's absolut nothing the dragon can do about it.
Oh, sure, let's assume occasionally a dragon manages to place a wall of force in the path of an incoming missile. Fine. No objections. But like I said, there's three of them, and they don't follow the same course, and even if they did, there's thousands upon thousands of missiles, and only so many spell slots.
Dragons just don't have any chance. They have no way to attack at the ranges that a fighter jet can, and only extremely limited options to defend. They can't win.
Blanket disclaimer: I only ever state opinion. But I can sound terribly dogmatic - so if you feel I'm trying to tell you what to think, I'm really not, I swear. I'm telling you what I think, that's all.
Also, this discussion no longer seems to be 'who'd win a fight, dragons or humans'. It seems now to be a discussion of 'could a wizard take over the world (also maybe the wizard is a dragon).' Which is a different discussion. And my initial answer is still no. It's much iffier though. Do wizards have tricks up their sleeves that might give them a shot? Sure. Will they succeed? Doubtful.
But how about a bard? Someone specialised in social engineering, lying, subterfuge, information gathering. Maybe a changeling bard, on top? Could that work? Sure, it's not impossible.
Blanket disclaimer: I only ever state opinion. But I can sound terribly dogmatic - so if you feel I'm trying to tell you what to think, I'm really not, I swear. I'm telling you what I think, that's all.
We are talking about modern, ACTUAL HUMANS, NOT your level 20 bard! dragons have literal gods! they would kill us ALL!!!
Sig but long ^w^
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Henlo, I am a pan, NB, chaotic ADHD mess of a furry.
I am also a eepy eeper, who likes WoF, WC, and fire.
Not to mention that flying isn’t their greatest ability, those that can tunnel and swim are the most dangerous. Think of a tank that can fly and are smarter than humans can ever be. With some having the capability to cast spells, send meteors and kill every political leader in the world by walking up to them without even being seen by anyone.
That sounds super impressive until you realise they'd never get to do any of that, they'd die long before that. We've been over that, I'm not going to make the same argument again.
I'm sorry. If you get to define the dragons - I get to define the humans. I really hope you see that?
Also, it's either humans v dragons, or anything v anything. Humans have gods too my friend. So either we keep it in a place where there's something to discuss - humans versus dragons - or we let it slip into the realm of nonsense and madness. I'll be party to the first discussion, but not the second.
Blanket disclaimer: I only ever state opinion. But I can sound terribly dogmatic - so if you feel I'm trying to tell you what to think, I'm really not, I swear. I'm telling you what I think, that's all.
Remember, it’s the modern day military, we are assuming that the entire world is involved, if that’s the case, we use every dragon. Now, gods in DnD are MUCH more active and physically there than real life religions, look at Dragonlance and Balder's gate, but since gods in DnD don’t transfer power in different worlds, they probably won’t factor. So we also have to note that if humans get to use guns, missiles and the like, dragons will potentially get access to stupid ass spells and their full potential as well.
Yes, I agree most dragons would get obliterated at first, but at least a fraction survive due to how tanky they are. And those that survive can take years if not decades hiding and planning, which yes is not the most dragon thing, would be more likely when they realise that they are outnumbered and outgunned by several magnitudes. If we factor the dragon spellcasting, a greatwyrm could shapechange into a creature immune to regular firepower, like krakens, Coutls, Androsphixes and Rashakas. Which would be completely immune toa good amount of conventional methods of harm that doesn’t involve sonic waves and fire.