I just have a question for all the people who have issues with the gliding:
How are Simic Hybrids with Manta Glide run at your table? This debate is old news.
The Manta Glide:
Manta Glide - You have ray-like fins that you can use as wings to slow your fall or allow you to glide. When you fall and aren’t incapacitated, you can subtract up to 100 feet from the fall when calculating falling damage, and you can move up to 2 feet horizontally for every 1 foot you descend.
Notice the difference? Manta Glide still consumes your Speed. With a speed of 30 feet per round, you can Manta Glide.... 30 feet per round. The Hadozee Glide specifically states that the movement does not consume your speed. Ergo, the distance you can horizontally move is a factor of the height of the fall. Therein lies the problem.
Manta Glide doesn't consume your speed. You can go 1,000 feet per fall with Manta Glide. Plus, it wouldn't make sense if it did, because most times creatures don't start falling when it's their turn.
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Manta Glide doesn't consume your speed. You can go 1,000 feet per fall with Manta Glide. Plus, it wouldn't make sense if it did, because most times creatures don't start falling when it's their turn.
Movement and Position
On your turn, you can move a distance up to your speed. You can use as much or as little of your speed as you like on your turn, following the rules here.
Manta Glide - You have ray-like fins that you can use as wings to slow your fall or allow you to glide. When you fall and aren’t incapacitated, you can subtract up to 100 feet from the fall when calculating falling damage, and you can moveup to 2 feet horizontally for every 1 foot you descend.
Show me where the rules state Manta Glide does not consume your speed.
Manta Glide is "moving" and "moving consumes your speed". You'd need an explicit rule for a move to not consume your speed. Perhaps something like:
you can move up to 5 feet horizontally for every 1 foot you descend in the air, at no movement cost to you.
Manta Glide doesn't consume your speed. You can go 1,000 feet per fall with Manta Glide. Plus, it wouldn't make sense if it did, because most times creatures don't start falling when it's their turn.
Movement and Position
On your turn, you can move a distance up to your speed. You can use as much or as little of your speed as you like on your turn, following the rules here.
Manta Glide - You have ray-like fins that you can use as wings to slow your fall or allow you to glide. When you fall and aren’t incapacitated, you can subtract up to 100 feet from the fall when calculating falling damage, and you can moveup to 2 feet horizontally for every 1 foot you descend.
Show me where the rules state Manta Glide does not consume your speed.
"Move" doesn't always mean "this ability consumes your movement". A lot of teleport abilities let you "move", as do shoving abilities, but they do not consume movement. The fact that the ability includes the word "move" is not the smoking gun you think it is. Hell, even the Hadozee ability includes the word "move", and that doesn't require movement, as clarified in the ability.
Manta Glide doesn't consume movement because:
It's worded the same as the Hadozee's Glide ability was in the UA, which also didn't consume movement. The only reason why the "this ability doesn't consume movement" was added was because it confused people that weren't already familiar with Manta Glide.
It doesn't even make sense if it did. It happens when you fall, and most of the time (unless you willingly jump or teleport into the air), falling starts when it's not your turn (because a monster flew down, picked you up and dropped you midair, or they Shoved you off a ledge, or your airship gets destroyed and you start falling). You only have "movement" on your turn, so the ability that triggers when you start falling requiring movement wouldn't even make sense.
The "movement" that the Manta Glide grants is a part of falling, which doesn't require movement, so the ability doesn't.
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"Move" doesn't always mean "this ability consumes your movement". A lot of teleport abilities let you "move", as do shoving abilities, but they do not consume movement. The fact that the ability includes the word "move" is not the smoking gun you think it is. Hell, even the Hadozee ability includes the word "move", and that doesn't require movement, as clarified in the ability.
From the rules on Movement:
Your movement can include jumping, climbing, and swimming. These different modes of movement can be combined with walking, or they can constitute your entire move. However you're moving, you deduct the distance of each part of your move from your speed until it is used up or until you are done moving.
Unless the movement you are taking is specifically excluded from consuming your speed, it consumes your speed. It's very much explicitly spelled out. As for Teleport, look at the spell. The word "move" isn't in there, because "move" (when used to define a distance your character goes from one position to another during your turn) is a game-defined mechanic.
Teleport:
This spell instantly transports you...
It's not a "move". The entire purpose of the "no movement cost" rider on the Hadozee Glide is because movement always consumes your speed. If it didn't, there would be no need to specify that a movement does NOT consume your speed. You don't see a rule like "when you make a ranged attack, the to-hit roll can be made at no movement cost to you". That's because making a ranged attack isn't assumed to consume your movement. Ergo, no need to exclude it. If the movement is expected to consume your speed but doesn't, that's when you need a rule specifying it.
There is a difference between the concept of "movement" in a broad sense, and the use of the word "move" when used in the text of a game rule.
It doesn't even make sense if it did. It happens when you fall, and most of the time (unless you willingly jump or teleport into the air), falling starts when it's not your turn (because a monster flew down, picked you up and dropped you midair, or they Shoved you off a ledge, or your airship gets destroyed and you start falling). You only have "movement" on your turn, so the ability that triggers when you start falling requiring movement wouldn't even make sense.
And now you're seeing why people are saying the Hadozee Glide is wonky. What would happen if a Hadozee was pushed off a cliff on someone else's turn? Do they get to Glide? Just fall? Who knows!
"Move" doesn't always mean "this ability consumes your movement". A lot of teleport abilities let you "move", as do shoving abilities, but they do not consume movement. The fact that the ability includes the word "move" is not the smoking gun you think it is. Hell, even the Hadozee ability includes the word "move", and that doesn't require movement, as clarified in the ability.
From the rules on Movement:
Your movement can include jumping, climbing, and swimming. These different modes of movement can be combined with walking, or they can constitute your entire move. However you're moving, you deduct the distance of each part of your move from your speed until it is used up or until you are done moving.
Unless the movement you are taking is specifically excluded from consuming your speed, it consumes your speed. It's very much explicitly spelled out. As for Teleport, look at the spell. The word "move" isn't in there, because "move" (when used to define a distance your character goes from one position to another during your turn) is a game-defined mechanic.
Teleport:
This spell instantly transports you...
It's not a "move". The entire purpose of the "no movement cost" rider on the Hadozee Glide is because movement always consumes your speed. If it didn't, there would be no need to specify that a movement does NOT consume your speed. You don't see a rule like "when you make a ranged attack, the to-hit roll can be made at no movement cost to you". That's because making a ranged attack isn't assumed to consume your movement. Ergo, no need to exclude it. If the movement is expected to consume your speed but doesn't, that's when you need a rule specifying it.
There is a difference between the concept of "movement" in a broad sense, and the use of the word "move" when used in the text of a game rule.
It doesn't even make sense if it did. It happens when you fall, and most of the time (unless you willingly jump or teleport into the air), falling starts when it's not your turn (because a monster flew down, picked you up and dropped you midair, or they Shoved you off a ledge, or your airship gets destroyed and you start falling). You only have "movement" on your turn, so the ability that triggers when you start falling requiring movement wouldn't even make sense.
And now you're seeing why people are saying the Hadozee Glide is wonky. What would happen if a Hadozee was pushed off a cliff on someone else's turn? Do they get to Glide? Just fall? Who knows!
. . . They get to glide. That's exactly what the ability is written for. I don't know how the hell you're reading the ability, but if the Hadozee was pushed off of a cliff on someone else's turn they absolutely get to glide. Go read Xanathar's rules for falling. They'll help you understand this.
Dude, no offense, but to me, it seems like you're pretty new to the game. You only have 15 posts, and have only had an account for 2.5 years. It takes awhile participating on these forums to get a grasp of the ruleset.
Moving only costs "movement" if you're using one of your movement speeds (walking, swimming, flying, climbing, crawling, etc). Gliding is not one of those movement speeds, so it doesn't cost movement for either Manta Glide or Hadozee Glide. Falling is "moving" that doesn't cost movement. Instead, you just fall 500 feet every round (kinda). Gliding triggers when you start falling, and lets you move 2 or 5 feet for every foot you descend from the falling. The Falling doesn't count as movement, so neither does the Gliding.
I get this is a bit difficult to understand, especially for someone newer to the hobby/site than me, but trust me, I know how this works. I've played with Manta Glide before and checked the rules several times. It doesn't cost movement, just like Hadozee Glide doesn't. Hadozee Glide and Manta Glide can be used on turns that aren't the player's. The abilities and falling rules are written in a way that makes that obvious once you have the hang of them.
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Well I'm glad your 4 years on these forums qualifies you to definitively answer the questions that have been keeping this thread alive for 6 pages now. It would sure be strange if anyone who disagreed with you had an older account than that.
Well I'm glad your 4 years on these forums qualifies you to definitively answer the questions that have been keeping this thread alive for 6 pages now. It would sure be strange if anyone who disagreed with you had an older account than that.
Okay, what's your take on this, then? Does Manta Glide require movement? Did the Hadozee Glide in the UA require movement, or did WotC just add the "this ability doesn't require movement" to clarify an ability that had been confusing people in the playtest?
Do you agree with everything @rushl was saying? That "moving" always costs movement? That you can't use Hadozee Glide on someone else's turn? That the specific ability of these two races doesn't overrule the general rule that is how Movement works in 5e?
Or, did you just want to tout that your account is older than mine (while ignoring that I have nearly 6 times the amount of posts that you do, and began posting in rules discussions muchearlier than you did)?
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. . . They get to glide. That's exactly what the ability is written for. I don't know how the hell you're reading the ability, but if the Hadozee was pushed off of a cliff on someone else's turn they absolutely get to glide. Go read Xanathar's rules for falling. They'll help you understand this.
Dude, no offense, but to me, it seems like you're pretty new to the game. You only have 15 posts, and have only had an account for 2.5 years. It takes awhile participating on these forums to get a grasp of the ruleset.
It should be obvious, but forum posts does not equal game experience. You might be surprised to learn that many people play D&D for literal decades without the need to post on forums about it.
Not that it matters, but I've been playing D&D since the mid-80s.
I get this is a bit difficult to understand, especially for someone newer to the hobby/site than me, but trust me, I know how this works. I've played with Manta Glide before and checked the rules several times. It doesn't cost movement, just like Hadozee Glide doesn't. Hadozee Glide and Manta Glide can be used on turns that aren't the player's. The abilities and falling rules are written in a way that makes that obvious once you have the hang of them.
I mean, if you were right, then the rule wouldn't need to specify that it doesn't cost movement. Right? Anyway, I'd urge caution when it comes to being patronizing. At best, both rules are unclear. However, Hadozee Glide explicitly does not consume speed, whereas Manta Glide is more murky. I can see how it could be interpreted to not consume movement (although I consider that interpretation wrong). Some moderate Googling will reveal dozens of posts across many forums debating the topic. I feel pretty confident that your confidence is unwarranted though.
To be clear, Hadozee Glide does not consume movement (as the rule states), and therefore it's reasonable to assume that were a Hadozee to start a fall during another character's turn, they could use their Glide ability. Because it doesn't consume movement. As it says in the rule. I'd suppose that Manta Glide is not usable during another character's turn - just like you can't climb, jump, walk, or swim during another character's turn. The DM might intervene and declare one way or the other though.
. . . They get to glide. That's exactly what the ability is written for. I don't know how the hell you're reading the ability, but if the Hadozee was pushed off of a cliff on someone else's turn they absolutely get to glide. Go read Xanathar's rules for falling. They'll help you understand this.
Yeah, that post is wrong. The common link between other actual movement-based abiltiies is that they say "You gain an X speed equal to Y". This ability does not say speed, it just says the distance you can glide.
This isn't a new type of movement like Flying, Climbing, and Swimming. This is a subset of the Falling rules. It explicitly links itself to them.
Dude, no offense, but to me, it seems like you're pretty new to the game. You only have 15 posts, and have only had an account for 2.5 years. It takes awhile participating on these forums to get a grasp of the ruleset.
It should be obvious, but forum posts does not equal game experience. You might be surprised to learn that many people play D&D for literal decades without the need to post on forums about it.
Not that it matters, but I've been playing D&D since the mid-80s.
I don't care a bit about how long you've been playing D&D. I care how familiar you are with 5e's ruleset and similar abilities. Part of that is forum discussions about this specific ruleset. Your posting style seemed to me like someone that wasn't very familiar with the ruleset (or at least the Falling part of them).
I get this is a bit difficult to understand, especially for someone newer to the hobby/site than me, but trust me, I know how this works. I've played with Manta Glide before and checked the rules several times. It doesn't cost movement, just like Hadozee Glide doesn't. Hadozee Glide and Manta Glide can be used on turns that aren't the player's. The abilities and falling rules are written in a way that makes that obvious once you have the hang of them.
I mean, if you were right, then the rule wouldn't need to specify that it doesn't cost movement.
Unless one of the biggest parts of feedback they got in the Spelljammer UA for the Hadozee was asking for clarification on whether or not it uses movement. The fact that one ability explicitly says "this doesn't use movement" doesn't mean the other ability that is written very similarly without that phrase does use movement.
It has been confirmed online through Jeremy Crawford that the Harengon's Rabbit Hop doesn't use movement. That ability doesn't say that anywhere, though. And, it also has similar wording to Hadozee Glide and Manta Glide.
My opinion is that Manta Glide and Hadozee Glide don't actually need the explicit text saying "this ability doesn't require movement" in order for that statement to be true. They already wouldn't cost movement because of how they're written. The only reason why Hadozee Glide has that phrase and Manta Glide doesn't is because people were confused whether or not it costs movement when the UA came out.
It's written in a way that would be confusing. However, the rule being confusing doesn't mean that it's up to interpretation. The falling rules still make it not cost movement without that truth being specified.
Right? Anyway, I'd urge caution when it comes to being patronizing. At best, both rules are unclear. However, Hadozee Glide explicitly does not consume speed, whereas Manta Glide is more murky. I can see how it could be interpreted to not consume movement (although I consider that interpretation wrong). Some moderate Googling will reveal dozens of posts across many forums debating the topic. I feel pretty confident that your confidence is unwarranted though.
To be clear, Hadozee Glide does not consume movement (as the rule states), and therefore it's reasonable to assume that were a Hadozee to start a fall during another character's turn, they could use their Glide ability. Because it doesn't consume movement. As it says in the rule. I'd suppose that Manta Glide is not usable during another character's turn - any more than you can't climb, jump, walk, or swim during another character's turn. The DM might intervene and declare one way or the other though.
The ability wouldn't specify that it functions when you begin to fall if the movement wasn't a part of that falling. And, because it bases how far you can travel off of how far you fall, it is even more linked to the falling distance.
I apologize if I offended you. I didn't mean to come across as patronizing, just to help you understand the rule better if you weren't familiar. I will concede that the rule is confusingly written, especially with how Hadozee Glide differs from Manta Glide, but I also do believe that there is one correct reading of this rule and a DM ruling otherwise would just be a less informed decision which would be the fault of how the rule is written.
Yeah, that post is wrong. The common link between other actual movement-based abiltiies is that they say "You gain an X speed equal to Y". This ability does not say speed, it just says the distance you can glide.
This isn't a new type of movement like Flying, Climbing, and Swimming. This is a subset of the Falling rules. It explicitly links itself to them.
I don't think you read my post. The post I linked above is a very detailed explanation of why Glide isn't a movement speed, but is in fact falling. Which incidentally is why I edited my previous post, because upon a proofread - and after extracting your implications that I don't understand the rules - I realized what you were saying. (I also just realized that had you read my post, you would know that I am familiar with the rules, as I knew where to find many instances of rule citations to illustrate my point.)
Anyway, it's clear for Hadozee Glide, but not for Manta Glide. Again, you'll find lots of people who fall on either side of the fence for Manta Glide, so to declare there is "one true answer" is hard to support. I could buy that because Manta Glide is unclear they specified it for Hadozee Glide.
Ultimately, if you want to interpret Manta Glide to function like Hadozee Glide with respect to movement costs, then you have two broken rules in need of replacement. This is not an upgrade.
I agree it's not built well. I agree it's overpowered in most scenarios.
Yes, under certain circumstances it lets you move fast. How is that overpowered in most scenarios?
The most likely abusable scenario is a glide-by shooting. There's many ways to get enough height to glide out, full-attack or drop a big spell, then glide back to safety. It basically increases the range of any spell to a quarter-mile if you want to return to your starting place - all in a single round. Two things to note though: 1) "glide-by shooting" is funny, and 2) it's not super abusable in a game-mechanic sense. But it is silly to imagine a monkey-dude rocketing around at 293 miles per hour (which is your speed when gliding from the maximum of 500 feet). The rule isn't strictly game-breaking, but it is immersion-breaking.
"Move" doesn't always mean "this ability consumes your movement". A lot of teleport abilities let you "move", as do shoving abilities, but they do not consume movement. The fact that the ability includes the word "move" is not the smoking gun you think it is. Hell, even the Hadozee ability includes the word "move", and that doesn't require movement, as clarified in the ability.
From the rules on Movement:
Your movement can include jumping, climbing, and swimming. These different modes of movement can be combined with walking, or they can constitute your entire move. However you're moving, you deduct the distance of each part of your move from your speed until it is used up or until you are done moving.
I would confer that the bolded aspect doesn't include falling. As the glide is based off of falling, and falling doesn't take your movement, gliding doesn't either.
I agree it's not built well. I agree it's overpowered in most scenarios.
Yes, under certain circumstances it lets you move fast. How is that overpowered in most scenarios?
A high jump is calculated by 3+ Str mod. A standing high jump can be made without 10ft of movement for half of that. If you do not land with a jump, you fall. A hadozee with 10 str can spend 1.5 movement to jump 1.5ft into the air, glide 7.5ft and continue doing so 20 times, using all of their movement. For a base movement in 1 round of 150ft provided the terrain doesn't give them a longer fall.
I think 150ft base movement is pretty overpowered.
I agree it's not built well. I agree it's overpowered in most scenarios.
Yes, under certain circumstances it lets you move fast. How is that overpowered in most scenarios?
The most likely abusable scenario is a glide-by shooting. There's many ways to get enough height to glide out, full-attack or drop a big spell, then glide back to safety. It basically increases the range of any spell to a quarter-mile if you want to return to your starting place - all in a single round. Two things to note though: 1) "glide-by shooting" is funny, and 2) it's not super abusable in a game-mechanic sense. But it is silly to imagine a monkey-dude rocketing around at 293 miles per hour (which is your speed when gliding from the maximum of 500 feet). The rule isn't strictly game-breaking, but it is immersion-breaking.
A high jump is calculated by 3+ Str mod. A standing high jump can be made without 10ft of movement for half of that. If you do not land with a jump, you fall. A hadozee with 10 str can spend 1.5 movement to jump 1.5ft into the air, glide 7.5ft and continue doing so 20 times, using all of their movement. For a base movement in 1 round of 150ft provided the terrain doesn't give them a longer fall.
I think 150ft base movement is pretty overpowered.
FWIW, without magic I don't believe it's possible to high-jump such that the trip back down is considered "falling". At most, you're looking at an 8 foot jump, which is below the threshold for falling. Technically, it's not possible to jump in excess of your movement according to Sage Advice. So, to jump up 8 feet you need to consume 8 feet of movement. Since you're consuming movement, you're not falling, and if you're not falling you can't glide.
A high jump is calculated by 3+ Str mod. A standing high jump can be made without 10ft of movement for half of that. If you do not land with a jump, you fall. A hadozee with 10 str can spend 1.5 movement to jump 1.5ft into the air, glide 7.5ft and continue doing so 20 times, using all of their movement. For a base movement in 1 round of 150ft provided the terrain doesn't give them a longer fall.
I think 150ft base movement is pretty overpowered.
FWIW, without magic I don't believe it's possible to high-jump such that the trip back down is considered "falling". At most, you're looking at an 8 foot jump, which is below the threshold for falling. Technically, it's not possible to jump in excess of your movement according to Sage Advice. So, to jump up 8 feet you need to consume 8 feet of movement. Since you're consuming movement, you're not falling, and if you're not falling you can't glide.
What makes you think you can't glide if you're not falling?
A high jump is calculated by 3+ Str mod. A standing high jump can be made without 10ft of movement for half of that. If you do not land with a jump, you fall. A hadozee with 10 str can spend 1.5 movement to jump 1.5ft into the air, glide 7.5ft and continue doing so 20 times, using all of their movement. For a base movement in 1 round of 150ft provided the terrain doesn't give them a longer fall.
I think 150ft base movement is pretty overpowered.
FWIW, without magic I don't believe it's possible to high-jump such that the trip back down is considered "falling". At most, you're looking at an 8 foot jump, which is below the threshold for falling. Technically, it's not possible to jump in excess of your movement according to Sage Advice. So, to jump up 8 feet you need to consume 8 feet of movement. Since you're consuming movement, you're not falling, and if you're not falling you can't glide.
Surely you still fall if it's less than 10ft. You just don't take damage.
Also, just that it takes 8ft to go up isn't sufficient to prove it takes another 8ft to get back down.
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Manta Glide doesn't consume your speed. You can go 1,000 feet per fall with Manta Glide. Plus, it wouldn't make sense if it did, because most times creatures don't start falling when it's their turn.
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Show me where the rules state Manta Glide does not consume your speed.
Manta Glide is "moving" and "moving consumes your speed". You'd need an explicit rule for a move to not consume your speed. Perhaps something like:
"Move" doesn't always mean "this ability consumes your movement". A lot of teleport abilities let you "move", as do shoving abilities, but they do not consume movement. The fact that the ability includes the word "move" is not the smoking gun you think it is. Hell, even the Hadozee ability includes the word "move", and that doesn't require movement, as clarified in the ability.
Manta Glide doesn't consume movement because:
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If moving always consumed your Speed there's features such as Orc's Aggressive that would be useless. ☺
From the rules on Movement:
Unless the movement you are taking is specifically excluded from consuming your speed, it consumes your speed. It's very much explicitly spelled out. As for Teleport, look at the spell. The word "move" isn't in there, because "move" (when used to define a distance your character goes from one position to another during your turn) is a game-defined mechanic.
Teleport:
It's not a "move". The entire purpose of the "no movement cost" rider on the Hadozee Glide is because movement always consumes your speed. If it didn't, there would be no need to specify that a movement does NOT consume your speed. You don't see a rule like "when you make a ranged attack, the to-hit roll can be made at no movement cost to you". That's because making a ranged attack isn't assumed to consume your movement. Ergo, no need to exclude it. If the movement is expected to consume your speed but doesn't, that's when you need a rule specifying it.
There is a difference between the concept of "movement" in a broad sense, and the use of the word "move" when used in the text of a game rule.
And now you're seeing why people are saying the Hadozee Glide is wonky. What would happen if a Hadozee was pushed off a cliff on someone else's turn? Do they get to Glide? Just fall? Who knows!
. . . They get to glide. That's exactly what the ability is written for. I don't know how the hell you're reading the ability, but if the Hadozee was pushed off of a cliff on someone else's turn they absolutely get to glide. Go read Xanathar's rules for falling. They'll help you understand this.
Dude, no offense, but to me, it seems like you're pretty new to the game. You only have 15 posts, and have only had an account for 2.5 years. It takes awhile participating on these forums to get a grasp of the ruleset.
Moving only costs "movement" if you're using one of your movement speeds (walking, swimming, flying, climbing, crawling, etc). Gliding is not one of those movement speeds, so it doesn't cost movement for either Manta Glide or Hadozee Glide. Falling is "moving" that doesn't cost movement. Instead, you just fall 500 feet every round (kinda). Gliding triggers when you start falling, and lets you move 2 or 5 feet for every foot you descend from the falling. The Falling doesn't count as movement, so neither does the Gliding.
I get this is a bit difficult to understand, especially for someone newer to the hobby/site than me, but trust me, I know how this works. I've played with Manta Glide before and checked the rules several times. It doesn't cost movement, just like Hadozee Glide doesn't. Hadozee Glide and Manta Glide can be used on turns that aren't the player's. The abilities and falling rules are written in a way that makes that obvious once you have the hang of them.
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Well I'm glad your 4 years on these forums qualifies you to definitively answer the questions that have been keeping this thread alive for 6 pages now. It would sure be strange if anyone who disagreed with you had an older account than that.
Okay, what's your take on this, then? Does Manta Glide require movement? Did the Hadozee Glide in the UA require movement, or did WotC just add the "this ability doesn't require movement" to clarify an ability that had been confusing people in the playtest?
Do you agree with everything @rushl was saying? That "moving" always costs movement? That you can't use Hadozee Glide on someone else's turn? That the specific ability of these two races doesn't overrule the general rule that is how Movement works in 5e?
Or, did you just want to tout that your account is older than mine (while ignoring that I have nearly 6 times the amount of posts that you do, and began posting in rules discussions much earlier than you did)?
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See my post #84 for more information.
It should be obvious, but forum posts does not equal game experience. You might be surprised to learn that many people play D&D for literal decades without the need to post on forums about it.
Not that it matters, but I've been playing D&D since the mid-80s.
I mean, if you were right, then the rule wouldn't need to specify that it doesn't cost movement. Right? Anyway, I'd urge caution when it comes to being patronizing. At best, both rules are unclear. However, Hadozee Glide explicitly does not consume speed, whereas Manta Glide is more murky. I can see how it could be interpreted to not consume movement (although I consider that interpretation wrong). Some moderate Googling will reveal dozens of posts across many forums debating the topic. I feel pretty confident that your confidence is unwarranted though.
To be clear, Hadozee Glide does not consume movement (as the rule states), and therefore it's reasonable to assume that were a Hadozee to start a fall during another character's turn, they could use their Glide ability. Because it doesn't consume movement. As it says in the rule. I'd suppose that Manta Glide is not usable during another character's turn - just like you can't climb, jump, walk, or swim during another character's turn. The DM might intervene and declare one way or the other though.
Yeah, that post is wrong. The common link between other actual movement-based abiltiies is that they say "You gain an X speed equal to Y". This ability does not say speed, it just says the distance you can glide.
This isn't a new type of movement like Flying, Climbing, and Swimming. This is a subset of the Falling rules. It explicitly links itself to them.
I don't care a bit about how long you've been playing D&D. I care how familiar you are with 5e's ruleset and similar abilities. Part of that is forum discussions about this specific ruleset. Your posting style seemed to me like someone that wasn't very familiar with the ruleset (or at least the Falling part of them).
Unless one of the biggest parts of feedback they got in the Spelljammer UA for the Hadozee was asking for clarification on whether or not it uses movement. The fact that one ability explicitly says "this doesn't use movement" doesn't mean the other ability that is written very similarly without that phrase does use movement.
It has been confirmed online through Jeremy Crawford that the Harengon's Rabbit Hop doesn't use movement. That ability doesn't say that anywhere, though. And, it also has similar wording to Hadozee Glide and Manta Glide.
My opinion is that Manta Glide and Hadozee Glide don't actually need the explicit text saying "this ability doesn't require movement" in order for that statement to be true. They already wouldn't cost movement because of how they're written. The only reason why Hadozee Glide has that phrase and Manta Glide doesn't is because people were confused whether or not it costs movement when the UA came out.
It's written in a way that would be confusing. However, the rule being confusing doesn't mean that it's up to interpretation. The falling rules still make it not cost movement without that truth being specified.
The ability wouldn't specify that it functions when you begin to fall if the movement wasn't a part of that falling. And, because it bases how far you can travel off of how far you fall, it is even more linked to the falling distance.
I apologize if I offended you. I didn't mean to come across as patronizing, just to help you understand the rule better if you weren't familiar. I will concede that the rule is confusingly written, especially with how Hadozee Glide differs from Manta Glide, but I also do believe that there is one correct reading of this rule and a DM ruling otherwise would just be a less informed decision which would be the fault of how the rule is written.
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Yes, under certain circumstances it lets you move fast. How is that overpowered in most scenarios?
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I don't think you read my post. The post I linked above is a very detailed explanation of why Glide isn't a movement speed, but is in fact falling. Which incidentally is why I edited my previous post, because upon a proofread - and after extracting your implications that I don't understand the rules - I realized what you were saying. (I also just realized that had you read my post, you would know that I am familiar with the rules, as I knew where to find many instances of rule citations to illustrate my point.)
Anyway, it's clear for Hadozee Glide, but not for Manta Glide. Again, you'll find lots of people who fall on either side of the fence for Manta Glide, so to declare there is "one true answer" is hard to support. I could buy that because Manta Glide is unclear they specified it for Hadozee Glide.
Ultimately, if you want to interpret Manta Glide to function like Hadozee Glide with respect to movement costs, then you have two broken rules in need of replacement. This is not an upgrade.
The most likely abusable scenario is a glide-by shooting. There's many ways to get enough height to glide out, full-attack or drop a big spell, then glide back to safety. It basically increases the range of any spell to a quarter-mile if you want to return to your starting place - all in a single round. Two things to note though: 1) "glide-by shooting" is funny, and 2) it's not super abusable in a game-mechanic sense. But it is silly to imagine a monkey-dude rocketing around at 293 miles per hour (which is your speed when gliding from the maximum of 500 feet). The rule isn't strictly game-breaking, but it is immersion-breaking.
I would confer that the bolded aspect doesn't include falling. As the glide is based off of falling, and falling doesn't take your movement, gliding doesn't either.
A high jump is calculated by 3+ Str mod. A standing high jump can be made without 10ft of movement for half of that. If you do not land with a jump, you fall. A hadozee with 10 str can spend 1.5 movement to jump 1.5ft into the air, glide 7.5ft and continue doing so 20 times, using all of their movement. For a base movement in 1 round of 150ft provided the terrain doesn't give them a longer fall.
I think 150ft base movement is pretty overpowered.
FWIW, without magic I don't believe it's possible to high-jump such that the trip back down is considered "falling". At most, you're looking at an 8 foot jump, which is below the threshold for falling. Technically, it's not possible to jump in excess of your movement according to Sage Advice. So, to jump up 8 feet you need to consume 8 feet of movement. Since you're consuming movement, you're not falling, and if you're not falling you can't glide.
What makes you think you can't glide if you're not falling?
That was covered on pages like 3 to 5. Start at post #71 I think.
So you're just making up rules text that doesn't exist. Got it.
Surely you still fall if it's less than 10ft. You just don't take damage.
Also, just that it takes 8ft to go up isn't sufficient to prove it takes another 8ft to get back down.