Animate Objects is a 5th level spell which allows you to turn 10 objects into creatures under your command. Medium objects count as 2 objects, large counts as 4, and huge counts as 8. I am under the impression that for raw damage, this is the best 5th level spell. Here's why.
The tiny object has an entire 20 hit points and 18 AC, and hits for 1d4+4 damage. That is, honestly, incredible damage... when you have 10 tiny objects. In terms of single target damage, this is 10d4 + 40 bludgeoning damage; plus, the enemy is most likely only able to take out 1 (with multiattack) object per round reducing the total damage dealt by objects by just 1d4+4 damage. In terms of single target damage, I don't see how this spell can be considered worse than any other 5th level combat spell. Additionally, it deals magical bludgeoning damage, which not many creatures are immune or resistant to. And just to round it all off, the objects have a 30 foot flying speed, and can move within 120 feet of you.
This spell seems far to powerful. Am I missing something or not?
It's definitely an incredibly powerful spell for the reasons you mentioned. One thing to keep in mind, though, is that the swarm of tiny creatures have very little HP... a well-placed AOE attack will wipe them out completely.
For a smart player, yeah, it's probably on the verge of too powerful. But for one, it's a lot to keep track of... You can only give out an individual order each round as a bonus action. So if you want to use the objects more tactically than just ordering them to swarm a single target you'll have to split it up over multiple rounds. And for another... it's a pain in the ass to track them all. Either you roll separate initiatives for each object, or you have them go after your turn and suddenly your turn takes 5 minutes as you roll and calculate every single attack.
Fair, but in the case of an AOE attack, if they were swarming an enemy, the AOE attack would likely hit the enemy too. Additionally, if it required a dexterity saving throw, the tiny objects have a +4 to save. A DM would probably allow you to roll initiative for them as a whole to not slow the game down, and as for the attack and damage rolls, I think that if done efficiently enough, it wouldn't take more than 15-30 seconds.
Management becomes a lot easier with mob rolling methods. There are simple calculators online for treating groups of enemies as a single creature. ((E.g. If you roll d20+X against AC Y, then Z percent of the mob hits successfully.)) They all do average damage. If you don't need to nitpick, you could also just do success tiers. ((E.g. Nat 20 = all hit, success = 75% hit, Near miss = 50% hit, Wide miss = 25% hit, Nat 1 = All miss))
The most important (unofficial) rule with PC mobs is to make life easy for everyone. Compromise optimizing mechanics for ease of play. If you make the DM happy, they'll probably give you more leeway elsewhere.
The Crusader's Mantle idea is an interesting one, but given it's 30 ft range it'd be best used as a defensive method, given the relative squishiness of spellslingers.
If you play on a VTT there are macros you can use to quickly roll for all 10 at once. I don’t personally know how to create it but Treantmonk used one in a one shot with Dungeon Dudes and D4: D&D Deep Dive Here when using conjure animals upcast. Or, It’s a little metagamey but on a VTT like Roll20 you can roll 10d20 and you can see each individual roll. So if you know, with modifiers, you need to roll at least a 14, roll your 10 d20’s and count how many are 14+ then Roll damage all at once.
In the same video an AOE took out a lot of the summons
It was a storm giant that called down a lightning strike on itself to kill a bunch of velociraptors attacking it and the giant was immune so no damage to itself. Kind of a unique situation but but as you get higher level could become more common
Anyway, it is a strong spell but I think it is fine as it is. It’s not perfect by any means. And nowhere in the spell does it say it is a magical attack so it’s just normal bludgeoning damage which can be resisted. Only the animation is magical not the attacks, imo.
It is really powerful but remember it's concentration and you have to wait for the object's next turn to act. A single hit on the caster could prevent all of the objects from acting. Wasted 5th level slot. Use responsibly so every one can have fun.
Counter spell is also an option. Also use sparingly sometimes players want a power fantasy.
It also only lasts a minute so multiple combats helps. players need to decide when to use important resources. Illusions or tricks may make it skill dependent.
My bard had a crate with 10 small dolls - of himself in jester's motley, and of course a dagger in each hand - that he would pour out and animate. I have no idea whether this was particularly efficient or not, but it was insanely fun.
The reason I don't know whether it was actually effective is that we never really played it out in combat. I used it for interrogation and intimidation, and the one time it was used for combat purposes, the bandits took one look at the miniature jester army and ran.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Blanket disclaimer: I only ever state opinion. But I can sound terribly dogmatic - so if you feel I'm trying to tell you what to think, I'm really not, I swear. I'm telling you what I think, that's all.
It is really powerful but remember it's concentration and you have to wait for the object's next turn to act. A single hit on the caster could prevent all of the object's from acting. Wasted 5th level slot. Use responsibly so every one can have fun.
Counter spell is also an option. Also use sparingly sometimes players want a power fantasy.
It also only lasts a minute so multiple combats helps. players need to decide when to use important resources. Illusions or tricks may make it skill dependent.
Concentration isn't bad for 10d4+40 damage a round.
5th level slot, on average, 65 damage a round. Amazing.
Counterspell will also cost a 5th level spell slot.
Minute duration is more than combat length.
Waiting for turn, I already discussed this, you could just roll initiative collectively for each one.
Concentration breaks: 120 ft range, same as eldritch blast. No way you're getting hit.
It's my Bard's only real damage spell for good reason. A lot of people keep a specialized set of items for the ability, but I've found in most scenarios there's more than enough objects strewn across the battlefield with a simple search check (loose rocks, fallen branches, even gold coins and silverware). Keep in mind that the objects only "fly" if they have no other discernable form of locomotion. DM's might rule for example that animated chairs use their chair legs to walk instead, or an animated pebble/boulder will simply roll on its own. Also, the hover modifier means that they simply float off the ground, they can't fly after winged creatures high in the air. The far more important trait is their blindsight, as it lets them target through invisibility without penalty. Had to fight an invisible Orthon with this spell once and the blindsight absolutely was a difference maker.
The spell says the object does bludgeoning damage, I don't see why that damage would be treated as "magical" damage. As the creature is getting hit by a physical object that also mages logical sense to me. So, this spell wouldn't be effective against things that are immune to non-magical damage.
It is really powerful but remember it's concentration and you have to wait for the object's next turn to act. A single hit on the caster could prevent all of the object's from acting. Wasted 5th level slot. Use responsibly so every one can have fun.
Counter spell is also an option. Also use sparingly sometimes players want a power fantasy.
It also only lasts a minute so multiple combats helps. players need to decide when to use important resources. Illusions or tricks may make it skill dependent.
Concentration isn't bad for 10d4+40 damage a round.
5th level slot, on average, 65 damage a round. Amazing.
Counterspell will also cost a 5th level spell slot.
Minute duration is more than combat length.
Waiting for turn, I already discussed this, you could just roll initiative collectively for each one.
Concentration breaks: 120 ft range, same as eldritch blast. No way you're getting hit.
The question of concentration is more interesting for the caster's enemies they should never try and attack the object but the caster instead potentially (killing all the threats.)
To auto cancel the spell (using counterspell) you need a 5th level slot but a decent caster can still do it with a third.
The damage is alot but it's delayed buy turn order. That means rarely do all the objects even attack and sometimes none of them get a chance.
The question of duration isn't about 1 combat it's about successive ones. If th BBGE tricks the caster to use it early they won't have that slot for later. If the party does burn all their resources on a quick destruction of BBGE then they have nothing for it's commanding minions. Fantasy books are usually better at escape sequences than many dms.
Animate objects is a powerful spell no doubt but there are responses and a dm should not be afraid if players take it.
My bard had a crate with 10 small dolls - of himself in jester's motley, and of course a dagger in each hand - that he would pour out and animate. I have no idea whether this was particularly efficient or not, but it was insanely fun.
The reason I don't know whether it was actually effective is that we never really played it out in combat. I used it for interrogation and intimidation, and the one time it was used for combat purposes, the bandits took one look at the miniature jester army and ran.
You could save some of that battle field found armor and weapons. Dress and arm 4 or 5 mannequins and leave them standing around your house.
It is really powerful but remember it's concentration and you have to wait for the object's next turn to act. A single hit on the caster could prevent all of the object's from acting. Wasted 5th level slot. Use responsibly so every one can have fun.
Counter spell is also an option. Also use sparingly sometimes players want a power fantasy.
It also only lasts a minute so multiple combats helps. players need to decide when to use important resources. Illusions or tricks may make it skill dependent.
Concentration isn't bad for 10d4+40 damage a round.
5th level slot, on average, 65 damage a round. Amazing.
Unless you have some fantastic way to get them to auto-hit, I suspect their hit rate will only be 50% or less (+8 to hit at 9th level?).
Forgive me as I necro this old thread but I am confused by the wording of the spell. What does it mean that "Medium targets count as two objects, Large targets count as four objects, Huge targets count as eight objects"?
If a player casts animate objects and animates medium or large or huge objects, how many are actually animated?
I see two possible readings:
that he could only animate 2 medium objects or 4 large objects or 8 huge objects but 10 small or tiny objects.
He could animate objects of different sizes. e.g. 1 huge and 2 tiny or small, or 5 medium, etc.
Forgive me as I necro this old thread but I am confused by the wording of the spell. What does it mean that "Medium targets count as two objects, Large targets count as four objects, Huge targets count as eight objects"?
If a player casts animate objects and animates medium or large or huge objects, how many are actually animated? My reading that he could only animate 2 medium objects or 4 large objects or 8 huge objects but 10 small or tiny objects. Is that correct?
Choose up to ten nonmagical objects within range that are not being worn or carried. Medium targets count as two objects, Large targets count as four objects, Huge targets count as eight objects.
Think of it like this, you have 10 points to animate some objects. You don't have to use all 10 of them.
small/tiny cost 1 point
Medium cost 2 points
large cost 4 points
huge counts as 8 points.
You as the caster get to choose what objects within your point budget you'd like to animate, go nuts .. but stay under budget.
I tend to interpret the spells size limitations to the listed character monster sizes.
Tiny does not mean a coin or tiny rock but something the size and weight of a house cat.
I used 12 Marionettes. About a foot high. They were also my cover for getting into places. Who would turn away a children's entertainer? Carried them in my backpack and animated them during combat from a hidden place.
You could also animate a cart and drive it into your enemies as high speed.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
Animate Objects is a 5th level spell which allows you to turn 10 objects into creatures under your command. Medium objects count as 2 objects, large counts as 4, and huge counts as 8. I am under the impression that for raw damage, this is the best 5th level spell. Here's why.
The tiny object has an entire 20 hit points and 18 AC, and hits for 1d4+4 damage. That is, honestly, incredible damage... when you have 10 tiny objects. In terms of single target damage, this is 10d4 + 40 bludgeoning damage; plus, the enemy is most likely only able to take out 1 (with multiattack) object per round reducing the total damage dealt by objects by just 1d4+4 damage. In terms of single target damage, I don't see how this spell can be considered worse than any other 5th level combat spell. Additionally, it deals magical bludgeoning damage, which not many creatures are immune or resistant to. And just to round it all off, the objects have a 30 foot flying speed, and can move within 120 feet of you.
This spell seems far to powerful. Am I missing something or not?
DMing:
Dragons of Stormwreck Isle
Playing:
None sadly.
Optimization Guides:
Literally Too Angry to Die - A Guide to Optimizing a Barbarian
It's definitely an incredibly powerful spell for the reasons you mentioned. One thing to keep in mind, though, is that the swarm of tiny creatures have very little HP... a well-placed AOE attack will wipe them out completely.
For a smart player, yeah, it's probably on the verge of too powerful. But for one, it's a lot to keep track of... You can only give out an individual order each round as a bonus action. So if you want to use the objects more tactically than just ordering them to swarm a single target you'll have to split it up over multiple rounds. And for another... it's a pain in the ass to track them all. Either you roll separate initiatives for each object, or you have them go after your turn and suddenly your turn takes 5 minutes as you roll and calculate every single attack.
Watch Crits for Breakfast, an adults-only RP-Heavy Roll20 Livestream at twitch.tv/afterdisbooty
And now you too can play with the amazing art and assets we use in Roll20 for our campaign at Hazel's Emporium
Fair, but in the case of an AOE attack, if they were swarming an enemy, the AOE attack would likely hit the enemy too. Additionally, if it required a dexterity saving throw, the tiny objects have a +4 to save. A DM would probably allow you to roll initiative for them as a whole to not slow the game down, and as for the attack and damage rolls, I think that if done efficiently enough, it wouldn't take more than 15-30 seconds.
DMing:
Dragons of Stormwreck Isle
Playing:
None sadly.
Optimization Guides:
Literally Too Angry to Die - A Guide to Optimizing a Barbarian
Management becomes a lot easier with mob rolling methods. There are simple calculators online for treating groups of enemies as a single creature. ((E.g. If you roll d20+X against AC Y, then Z percent of the mob hits successfully.)) They all do average damage. If you don't need to nitpick, you could also just do success tiers. ((E.g. Nat 20 = all hit, success = 75% hit, Near miss = 50% hit, Wide miss = 25% hit, Nat 1 = All miss))
The most important (unofficial) rule with PC mobs is to make life easy for everyone. Compromise optimizing mechanics for ease of play. If you make the DM happy, they'll probably give you more leeway elsewhere.
Edit: If you want to get silly with it, toss in Crusader's Mantle.
The Crusader's Mantle idea is an interesting one, but given it's 30 ft range it'd be best used as a defensive method, given the relative squishiness of spellslingers.
DMing:
Dragons of Stormwreck Isle
Playing:
None sadly.
Optimization Guides:
Literally Too Angry to Die - A Guide to Optimizing a Barbarian
If you play on a VTT there are macros you can use to quickly roll for all 10 at once. I don’t personally know how to create it but Treantmonk used one in a one shot with Dungeon Dudes and D4: D&D Deep Dive Here when using conjure animals upcast. Or, It’s a little metagamey but on a VTT like Roll20 you can roll 10d20 and you can see each individual roll. So if you know, with modifiers, you need to roll at least a 14, roll your 10 d20’s and count how many are 14+ then Roll damage all at once.
In the same video an AOE took out a lot of the summons
It was a storm giant that called down a lightning strike on itself to kill a bunch of velociraptors attacking it and the giant was immune so no damage to itself. Kind of a unique situation but but as you get higher level could become more common
Anyway, it is a strong spell but I think it is fine as it is. It’s not perfect by any means. And nowhere in the spell does it say it is a magical attack so it’s just normal bludgeoning damage which can be resisted. Only the animation is magical not the attacks, imo.
EZD6 by DM Scotty
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/397599/EZD6-Core-Rulebook?
It is really powerful but remember it's concentration and you have to wait for the object's next turn to act. A single hit on the caster could prevent all of the objects from acting. Wasted 5th level slot. Use responsibly so every one can have fun.
Counter spell is also an option. Also use sparingly sometimes players want a power fantasy.
It also only lasts a minute so multiple combats helps. players need to decide when to use important resources. Illusions or tricks may make it skill dependent.
My bard had a crate with 10 small dolls - of himself in jester's motley, and of course a dagger in each hand - that he would pour out and animate. I have no idea whether this was particularly efficient or not, but it was insanely fun.
The reason I don't know whether it was actually effective is that we never really played it out in combat. I used it for interrogation and intimidation, and the one time it was used for combat purposes, the bandits took one look at the miniature jester army and ran.
Blanket disclaimer: I only ever state opinion. But I can sound terribly dogmatic - so if you feel I'm trying to tell you what to think, I'm really not, I swear. I'm telling you what I think, that's all.
Concentration isn't bad for 10d4+40 damage a round.
5th level slot, on average, 65 damage a round. Amazing.
Counterspell will also cost a 5th level spell slot.
Minute duration is more than combat length.
Waiting for turn, I already discussed this, you could just roll initiative collectively for each one.
Concentration breaks: 120 ft range, same as eldritch blast. No way you're getting hit.
DMing:
Dragons of Stormwreck Isle
Playing:
None sadly.
Optimization Guides:
Literally Too Angry to Die - A Guide to Optimizing a Barbarian
It's my Bard's only real damage spell for good reason. A lot of people keep a specialized set of items for the ability, but I've found in most scenarios there's more than enough objects strewn across the battlefield with a simple search check (loose rocks, fallen branches, even gold coins and silverware). Keep in mind that the objects only "fly" if they have no other discernable form of locomotion. DM's might rule for example that animated chairs use their chair legs to walk instead, or an animated pebble/boulder will simply roll on its own. Also, the hover modifier means that they simply float off the ground, they can't fly after winged creatures high in the air. The far more important trait is their blindsight, as it lets them target through invisibility without penalty. Had to fight an invisible Orthon with this spell once and the blindsight absolutely was a difference maker.
The spell says the object does bludgeoning damage, I don't see why that damage would be treated as "magical" damage. As the creature is getting hit by a physical object that also mages logical sense to me. So, this spell wouldn't be effective against things that are immune to non-magical damage.
Of am I reading that wrong?
https://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/73349/do-objects-affected-by-the-animate-objects-spell-count-as-magical-weapons-for-th
yes, it's probably just bludgeoning. Still, pretty good for mundane. Better than cold, at least.
DMing:
Dragons of Stormwreck Isle
Playing:
None sadly.
Optimization Guides:
Literally Too Angry to Die - A Guide to Optimizing a Barbarian
The question of concentration is more interesting for the caster's enemies they should never try and attack the object but the caster instead potentially (killing all the threats.)
To auto cancel the spell (using counterspell) you need a 5th level slot but a decent caster can still do it with a third.
The damage is alot but it's delayed buy turn order. That means rarely do all the objects even attack and sometimes none of them get a chance.
The question of duration isn't about 1 combat it's about successive ones. If th BBGE tricks the caster to use it early they won't have that slot for later. If the party does burn all their resources on a quick destruction of BBGE then they have nothing for it's commanding minions. Fantasy books are usually better at escape sequences than many dms.
Animate objects is a powerful spell no doubt but there are responses and a dm should not be afraid if players take it.
You could save some of that battle field found armor and weapons. Dress and arm 4 or 5 mannequins and leave them standing around your house.
Unless you have some fantastic way to get them to auto-hit, I suspect their hit rate will only be 50% or less (+8 to hit at 9th level?).
okay, fine...
32.5 damage a round. Still amazing.
DMing:
Dragons of Stormwreck Isle
Playing:
None sadly.
Optimization Guides:
Literally Too Angry to Die - A Guide to Optimizing a Barbarian
Forgive me as I necro this old thread but I am confused by the wording of the spell. What does it mean that "Medium targets count as two objects, Large targets count as four objects, Huge targets count as eight objects"?
If a player casts animate objects and animates medium or large or huge objects, how many are actually animated?
I see two possible readings:
I'm guessing option 2 is correct?
Think of it like this, you have 10 points to animate some objects. You don't have to use all 10 of them.
small/tiny cost 1 point
Medium cost 2 points
large cost 4 points
huge counts as 8 points.
You as the caster get to choose what objects within your point budget you'd like to animate, go nuts .. but stay under budget.
some examples:
1 huge (8pts), and1 medium (2 pts) = 10 points
1 huge, nothing else = 8 points
8 small (8x1pt) and 1 medium (2pts) = 10pts
Epic idea.
I tend to interpret the spells size limitations to the listed character monster sizes.
Tiny does not mean a coin or tiny rock but something the size and weight of a house cat.
I used 12 Marionettes. About a foot high. They were also my cover for getting into places. Who would turn away a children's entertainer?
Carried them in my backpack and animated them during combat from a hidden place.
You could also animate a cart and drive it into your enemies as high speed.