I dont really intend to make a character like this, but I am curious what would be the best build we could construct to improve your chances of of countering magic with Counterspell or Dispel Magic. For this thread, I am going to keep a running list of all of the possible pieces that could be used for this build. This is really just a thought experiment that I want to see how weird it could get.
Potential Main Classes / Subclasses
Bard (Lore). Need to be a Lore bard to get counterspell, since its not on the Bard spell list inherently. Furthermore, Bards get Jack of All Trades which would allow them to add half of their proficiency modifier to the Charisma check made as part of dispelling a magical effect of higher level.
Sorcerer (Any). The optional feature Magical Guidance allows a sorcerer to reroll an ability check for 1 sorcery point. Very useful for trying to fish for success. Metamagic also allows for interesting interactions
Wizard (Abjuration). Improved Abjuration allows the wizard to add their full proficiency bonus to ability checks made as part of dispelling magical effects through Counterspell or Dispel Magic.
Possible Multiclasses
Bard (Any) A small two level dip will get you Jack of All Trades, assuming you can get Counterspell from your main class.
Ranger (Fey Wanderer). If playing a Charisma caster as your main class, the Fey Wanderer's Otherwordly Glamour feature would allow you to add your Wisdom modifier to the Charisma ability check made for either spell.
Warlock (Pact of the Talisman). Since your pact slots are higher level, you would always be upcasting either spell. With the Pact of the Talisman, you can add a d4 to ability checks you make PB/long rest.
Wizard (Chronurgy). Both the Chronal Shift feature and later Convergent Future feature could modify your ability checks for either spell, although only a limited number of times.
Wizard (Divination). Portent rolls could alter the outcome of a crucial roll if you cant afford to upcast in the first place.
Wizard (War Magic). Successfully using either spell plays into their Power Surge feature, although it does not offer any benefit to make either spell more likely to work.
Feats? Lineage Traits?
Dhampir (Vampiric Bite)Lets you add extra damage dealt to an ability check or attack roll. This is restricted to the "next" roll you make, so wont always be useable when you want it.
Lucky Feat (and similar Halfling traits). If relying on the ability check to conserve more powerful slots (or you have run out of those slots), then rerolls will be our friend
Choose a single pure caster class that gets the spell so that you get higher level spell slots as early as possible.
This means you can use your highest level spell slot in order to greatly reduce the chance of you needing to roll the dice.
No dice roll is better than having to make a dice roll.
Generally, yes I agree. That being said, if you can get your bonus to the ability check high enough (in the +8 to +13 range for a DC that is only going to vary from 14-19 depending on the effect's level), then I think it would be worth the risk of rolling so that you can conserve your higher level spell slots for casting your own powerful spells.
The most extreme case I have thought of thus far is a level 17 Lore Bard + level 3 Fey Wanderer Ranger with maxed out Wisdom and Charisma stats. Between Otherworldly Glamour and Jack of All Trades, you will be getting a +13 to your ability check, meaning the minimum you can total is a 14. That means this bard is guaranteed to cancel a 4th level effect with a 3rd level slot, and only needs to roll a 6 or higher to cancel a 9th level effect. Since the majority of the levels are in bard, it will still have access to the full suit of 1st-9th level spell slots if they really do need to guarantee that an effect gets countered, but it now has the option of taking a relatively small risk to conserve their own spell slots that are 4th level or higher.
Could add Divination wizard to the list, as you can always use a high Portent roll (if you have one) on your check
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Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock) Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric) Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue) Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
Could add Divination wizard to the list, as you can always use a high Portent roll (if you have one) on your check
Thats fair. Ill add it to the potential multiclass list, since its more of a limited use ability and wouldnt universally make the spells stronger like like some of the other ones
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Three-time Judge of the Competition of the Finest Brews!Come join us in making fun, unique homebrew and voting for your favorite entries!
If you're using the optional class features then Sorcerer gets the ability to reroll a failed ability check by spending 1 sorcery point. They also have access to the spell Enhance Ability although it requires concentration.
If you're using the optional class features then Sorcerer gets the ability to reroll a failed ability check by spending 1 sorcery point. They also have access to the spell Enhance Ability although it requires concentration.
Yes sorcerer should definitely be a contender with the Tasha’s feature to reroll an already failed check for a sorcery point.
subtle spell could also be taken into account for the removal of the somatic component of counterspell. Quite a few tables allow for the component removal to make the spell unable to be counterspelled itself.
The warlock's extremely limited number of spell slots means that it's fairly weak when it comes to counterspelling, even if the class automatically upcasts the spell (though by a maximum of two spell levels).
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Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
EDIT: I messed up, I kept this post the same aside from this edit, but Favored by the Gods does not work with Counterspell, so meme on me when I say in this post it does. I still think sorcerer (albeit not divine sorcerer but sorcerer in general) is the best counterspeller
I feel like the best practical counter spell build would be Divine Soul Sorcerer. Favored by the gods works on counterspell checks as well as magical guidance. If you want higher level slots you can make a costly 5th level slot to counterspell with. Quickened enhanced ability on the 1st turn of combat or subtle spell enhanced ability prior to rolling initiative, or twinned enhanced ability makes this better.
If you won't want to go straight divine soul after level 5 to really invest into the counterspell (even if it means missed spell progression), then here's some recommendations
- Pact of the Talisman Warlock if adventuring days are being run (It's also the least MAD option). You can turn those low level warlock slots into sorcery points on a short rest for magical guidance fuel
- Fey Wanderer ranger if you're fine with being MAD (needs high wisdom, and your charisma needs to be high still, as well as minimum of 13 DEX)
- Divination wizard for low number of encounters per long rest, since portent is OP in those environments
- If you're a dhampir, and can be tanky enough somehow survive in the frontlines, 3 levels of swords bard is good, since dhampir bite + slashing flourish can give you bonuses to ability checks. This also gets you Jack of all Trades
Other Recommendations:
Lucky (Just like Divination Wizard, this is even better if the DM isn't running adventuring days)
I feel like the best practical counter spell build would be Divine Soul Sorcerer. Favored by the gods works on counterspell checks as well as magical guidance. If you want higher level slots you can make a costly 5th level slot to counterspell with. Quickened enhanced ability on the 1st turn of combat or subtle spell enhanced ability prior to rolling initiative, or twinned enhanced ability makes this better.
Favored by the Gods does not work on ability checks, only saving throws and attack rolls.
I feel like the best practical counter spell build would be Divine Soul Sorcerer. Favored by the gods works on counterspell checks as well as magical guidance. If you want higher level slots you can make a costly 5th level slot to counterspell with. Quickened enhanced ability on the 1st turn of combat or subtle spell enhanced ability prior to rolling initiative, or twinned enhanced ability makes this better.
Favored by the Gods does not work on ability checks, only saving throws and attack rolls.
Oh wait, somehow I didn't realize that lol. I'll correct my original post. I think even without that though, any sorcerer (albeit now not restricted to divine soul) is the best counterspeller
I feel like the best practical counter spell build would be Divine Soul Sorcerer. Favored by the gods works on counterspell checks as well as magical guidance. If you want higher level slots you can make a costly 5th level slot to counterspell with. Quickened enhanced ability on the 1st turn of combat or subtle spell enhanced ability prior to rolling initiative, or twinned enhanced ability makes this better.
Favored by the Gods does not work on ability checks, only saving throws and attack rolls.
Oh wait, somehow I didn't realize that lol. I'll correct my original post. I think even without that though, any sorcerer (albeit now not restricted to divine soul) is the best counterspeller
Actually, a Divine Soul would be able to get guidance, making it the best sorcerer subclass for counterspelling.
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Paladin main who spends most of his D&D time worldbuilding or DMing, not Paladin-ing.
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I dont really intend to make a character like this, but I am curious what would be the best build we could construct to improve your chances of of countering magic with Counterspell or Dispel Magic. For this thread, I am going to keep a running list of all of the possible pieces that could be used for this build. This is really just a thought experiment that I want to see how weird it could get.
Potential Main Classes / Subclasses
Bard (Lore). Need to be a Lore bard to get counterspell, since its not on the Bard spell list inherently. Furthermore, Bards get Jack of All Trades which would allow them to add half of their proficiency modifier to the Charisma check made as part of dispelling a magical effect of higher level.
Sorcerer (Any). The optional feature Magical Guidance allows a sorcerer to reroll an ability check for 1 sorcery point. Very useful for trying to fish for success. Metamagic also allows for interesting interactions
Wizard (Abjuration). Improved Abjuration allows the wizard to add their full proficiency bonus to ability checks made as part of dispelling magical effects through Counterspell or Dispel Magic.
Possible Multiclasses
Bard (Any) A small two level dip will get you Jack of All Trades, assuming you can get Counterspell from your main class.
Ranger (Fey Wanderer). If playing a Charisma caster as your main class, the Fey Wanderer's Otherwordly Glamour feature would allow you to add your Wisdom modifier to the Charisma ability check made for either spell.
Warlock (Pact of the Talisman). Since your pact slots are higher level, you would always be upcasting either spell. With the Pact of the Talisman, you can add a d4 to ability checks you make PB/long rest.
Wizard (Chronurgy). Both the Chronal Shift feature and later Convergent Future feature could modify your ability checks for either spell, although only a limited number of times.
Wizard (Divination). Portent rolls could alter the outcome of a crucial roll if you cant afford to upcast in the first place.
Wizard (War Magic). Successfully using either spell plays into their Power Surge feature, although it does not offer any benefit to make either spell more likely to work.
Feats? Lineage Traits?
Dhampir (Vampiric Bite) Lets you add extra damage dealt to an ability check or attack roll. This is restricted to the "next" roll you make, so wont always be useable when you want it.
Lucky Feat (and similar Halfling traits). If relying on the ability check to conserve more powerful slots (or you have run out of those slots), then rerolls will be our friend
Three-time Judge of the Competition of the Finest Brews! Come join us in making fun, unique homebrew and voting for your favorite entries!
Choose a single pure caster class that gets the spell so that you get higher level spell slots as early as possible.
This means you can use your highest level spell slot in order to greatly reduce the chance of you needing to roll the dice.
No dice roll is better than having to make a dice roll.
Generally, yes I agree. That being said, if you can get your bonus to the ability check high enough (in the +8 to +13 range for a DC that is only going to vary from 14-19 depending on the effect's level), then I think it would be worth the risk of rolling so that you can conserve your higher level spell slots for casting your own powerful spells.
The most extreme case I have thought of thus far is a level 17 Lore Bard + level 3 Fey Wanderer Ranger with maxed out Wisdom and Charisma stats. Between Otherworldly Glamour and Jack of All Trades, you will be getting a +13 to your ability check, meaning the minimum you can total is a 14. That means this bard is guaranteed to cancel a 4th level effect with a 3rd level slot, and only needs to roll a 6 or higher to cancel a 9th level effect. Since the majority of the levels are in bard, it will still have access to the full suit of 1st-9th level spell slots if they really do need to guarantee that an effect gets countered, but it now has the option of taking a relatively small risk to conserve their own spell slots that are 4th level or higher.
Three-time Judge of the Competition of the Finest Brews! Come join us in making fun, unique homebrew and voting for your favorite entries!
Could add Divination wizard to the list, as you can always use a high Portent roll (if you have one) on your check
Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock)
Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric)
Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue)
Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
Thats fair. Ill add it to the potential multiclass list, since its more of a limited use ability and wouldnt universally make the spells stronger like like some of the other ones
Three-time Judge of the Competition of the Finest Brews! Come join us in making fun, unique homebrew and voting for your favorite entries!
If you're using the optional class features then Sorcerer gets the ability to reroll a failed ability check by spending 1 sorcery point. They also have access to the spell Enhance Ability although it requires concentration.
Yes sorcerer should definitely be a contender with the Tasha’s feature to reroll an already failed check for a sorcery point.
subtle spell could also be taken into account for the removal of the somatic component of counterspell. Quite a few tables allow for the component removal to make the spell unable to be counterspelled itself.
The warlock's extremely limited number of spell slots means that it's fairly weak when it comes to counterspelling, even if the class automatically upcasts the spell (though by a maximum of two spell levels).
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
EDIT: I messed up, I kept this post the same aside from this edit, but Favored by the Gods does not work with Counterspell, so meme on me when I say in this post it does. I still think sorcerer (albeit not divine sorcerer but sorcerer in general) is the best counterspeller
I feel like the best practical counter spell build would be Divine Soul Sorcerer. Favored by the gods works on counterspell checks as well as magical guidance. If you want higher level slots you can make a costly 5th level slot to counterspell with. Quickened enhanced ability on the 1st turn of combat or subtle spell enhanced ability prior to rolling initiative, or twinned enhanced ability makes this better.
If you won't want to go straight divine soul after level 5 to really invest into the counterspell (even if it means missed spell progression), then here's some recommendations
- Pact of the Talisman Warlock if adventuring days are being run (It's also the least MAD option). You can turn those low level warlock slots into sorcery points on a short rest for magical guidance fuel
- Fey Wanderer ranger if you're fine with being MAD (needs high wisdom, and your charisma needs to be high still, as well as minimum of 13 DEX)
- Divination wizard for low number of encounters per long rest, since portent is OP in those environments
- If you're a dhampir, and can be tanky enough somehow survive in the frontlines, 3 levels of swords bard is good, since dhampir bite + slashing flourish can give you bonuses to ability checks. This also gets you Jack of all Trades
Other Recommendations:
Lucky (Just like Divination Wizard, this is even better if the DM isn't running adventuring days)
Favored by the Gods does not work on ability checks, only saving throws and attack rolls.
Oh wait, somehow I didn't realize that lol. I'll correct my original post. I think even without that though, any sorcerer (albeit now not restricted to divine soul) is the best counterspeller
Actually, a Divine Soul would be able to get guidance, making it the best sorcerer subclass for counterspelling.
Paladin main who spends most of his D&D time worldbuilding or DMing, not Paladin-ing.