Eldritch Knight with a 2 level dip into Wizard for bladesinger. The two levels in wizards gives you the bladesong and the spell slots you’ll need to reliably be able to cast shield. Very tanky and mobile build.
Grab a lot of utility cantrips and rituals for a versatile play style that doesn’t lose out in power.
I've looked at bladeslinging a few times, I don't see the appeal? On the face of it, it looks like a cool feature, but it's just so overwhelming vs a +4 to saves.
A bonus to AC which you'll need seeing a you can't be in medium/heavy armour shield, no 2Hweapon. you're better with a cleric dip for zero restrictions on armor/shield.
+10 walking speed, I can get this with longstrider.
Adv on Acrobatics checks, mediocre. OK dex and prof in acrobatics is similar.
INT modifier bonus to CON saves for concentration. Ho hum?
A decent mutliclass character will provide better than all this, with more benefits beyond.
I just hope i'm missing something, it's not bad, but war magic seems plain better?....
Eldritch Knight with a 2 level dip into Wizard for bladesinger. The two levels in wizards gives you the bladesong and the spell slots you’ll need to reliably be able to cast shield. Very tanky and mobile build.
Grab a lot of utility cantrips and rituals for a versatile play style that doesn’t lose out in power.
I've looked at bladeslinging a few times, I don't see the appeal? On the face of it, it looks like a cool feature, but it's just so overwhelming vs a +4 to saves.
A bonus to AC which you'll need seeing a you can't be in medium/heavy armour shield, no 2Hweapon. you're better with a cleric dip for zero restrictions on armor/shield.
+10 walking speed, I can get this with longstrider.
Adv on Acrobatics checks, mediocre. OK dex and prof in acrobatics is similar.
INT modifier bonus to CON saves for concentration. Ho hum?
A decent mutliclass character will provide better than all this, with more benefits beyond.
I just hope i'm missing something, it's not bad, but war magic seems plain better?....
Keep in mind this is by and large just a straight fighter class - Fighter 18/Wizard 2, but two in wizard adds a ton of utility.
Compare:
EK - 5 2 cantrips, 4 level 1 spells known and 3 level 1 spell slots 1 ASI, Extra attack 1 (melee cantrips less useful now that you have the extra attack) AC- Plate/Shield for 20, 18 if you plan on a two-handed weapon.
EK3-BS2 5 cantrips, 11 level 1 spells known, 4 level 1 spell slots, and 2 level 2 spell slots Green Flame Blade/Booming Blade help keep up in damage because you dont' have the extra attack. You can get Find Familar: Owl as a ritual to give you the help action to get advantage on your one attack. AC: Studded leather, Dex, Int, Shield Spell - 23, throw in Cause fear on a single target or Protection from Evil/Good if the situation warrants it for the concentration so the enemy get disadvantage to attack you, and with bladesong, proficient with con saves, you're likely going to be able to keep up your concentration spell. +7 for concentration saves. (let's go with HIgh Elf, standard array, dex 16, int 16, con 13)
Add in the other fringe bladesong benefits - +10 speed, acrobatics advantage. The speed is the best part, 40 speed can make a difference. With shield spell up, you can run through a crowd of small creatures to try to soak up their opportunity attacks/reactions to make the rest of your party safer.
Add in the fact that with your 8 level 1 wizard spells, you can get a ton of utility - detect magic, identify, comprehend languages, find familiar, tenser's floating disk, unseen servant, disguise self, feather fall and more cantrips... mage hand, message, minor illusion.
Oh and on a rest, you get back a level 1 spell slot.
This build is a really strong 1v1 dualist. Hit with booming blade, back off to draw out the opportunity attack/reaction, keep shield up to avoid damage, make them chase you so your booming blade damage triggers.
Seriously... the build is so fun. And it can do some incredible role play stuff too.
Imagine having to get into a kings court to assassinate someone important. You can walk in completely unarmed and unarmored and looking totally nonthreatening. But you can summon the owl familiar, cast mage armor, resummon your sword, turn on bladesong/keep shield up in a fight, and you are at like... 95% power and you still have 4 spell slots left. More than the level 5 EK gets ever.
This is all at level 5.
Edit: you mentioned war magic - for a level 2 dip, it gives you arcane deflection (+2 ac for a single attack- way worse than the shield spell as a reaction. The best part is the +4 to a saving throw and it doesn't take a spell slot, but you also can't cast non-cantrip spells until the end of your next turn. Bladesong is a +3 to ac for a whole minute). And tactical wit - add int to initiative roles, which is worse than +int to concentration, +10 speed and advantage on acrobatics for an entire minute.
Edit: you mentioned war magic - for a level 2 dip, it gives you arcane deflection (+2 ac for a single attack- way worse than the shield spell as a reaction. The best part is the +4 to a saving throw and it doesn't take a spell slot, but you also can't cast non-cantrip spells until the end of your next turn. Bladesong is a +3 to ac for a whole minute). And tactical wit - add int to initiative roles, which is worse than +int to concentration, +10 speed and advantage on acrobatics for an entire minute.
Of course if you're attacked you use your shield spell, but to be honest that's rarely needed with standard AC19. It's the +4 to saves which is the killer here (+6 later effectively). That's only 1 off a Paladin aura. That plus CON proficiency in the first place definitely means for a multiclasser War Magic reigns. And my bard levels give me all I need in terms of boosts for acrobatics etc. And yeah, having to cast a cantrip only isn't actually that much of a detriment with Agonized Eldritch Blast.
Of course if you're attacked you use your shield spell, but to be honest that's rarely needed with standard AC19. It's the +4 to saves which is the killer here (+6 later effectively). That's only 1 off a Paladin aura. That plus CON proficiency in the first place definitely means for a multiclasser War Magic reigns. And my bard levels give me all I need in terms of boosts for acrobatics etc. And yeah, having to cast a cantrip only isn't actually that much of a detriment with Agonized Eldritch Blast.
Is that a bard/wizard/warlock multi class? Not sure we’re really talking about the same thing at this point
You asked me what you were missing- and I’m comparing a straight EK to a bladesong2-EK. The bladesinger dip makes it pretty much strictly better than just going straight Eldritch Knight
Yeah war magic has that one benefit of adding to saving throws, but if we’re talking for a level 2 dip (and going Eldritch Knight the rest of the way) I think the benefits of bladesong outweigh war magic. Different strokes for different folks.
I myself enjoy a combination of Raven Queen Warlock, Swashbuckler Rogue, and College of Lore Bard. I also take the feats Alert, and Observant. Race is Half-elf.
This gives me 11 skill proficiencies, 8 of which have Expertise. I have a max initiative mod of +18 and a min of +10 (this is assuming I'm max level) and a max passive perception of 31 and a min of 16, assuming you have at least +1 to wis and once again max level.
With fancy footwork from swashbuckler, I can disengage for free, making me an absolute troll in melee combat. Spellcasting gives me range and more versatility. Then with the Mask of Many Faces eldritch invocation and my pet bird's mimicry, I can be anyone I want, even you.
I myself enjoy a combination of Raven Queen Warlock, Swashbuckler Rogue, and College of Lore Bard. I also take the feats Alert, and Observant. Race is Half-elf.
This gives me 11 skill proficiencies, 8 of which have Expertise. I have a max initiative mod of +18 and a min of +10 (this is assuming I'm max level) and a max passive perception of 31 and a min of 16, assuming you have at least +1 to wis and once again max level.
With fancy footwork from swashbuckler, I can disengage for free, making me an absolute troll in melee combat. Spellcasting gives me range and more versatility. Then with the Mask of Many Faces eldritch invocation and my pet bird's mimicry, I can be anyone I want, even you.
What is this about a pet bird mimicry? I'm currently having to take ACTOR feat for voice changing....
Fighter 5 (Brute), Barbarian 2, Paladin 2, Rouge 1. That is 10 levels of pure glory and strength. If I need to flesh out any class after that, I level it up.
A Shadar-Kai Rogue (Assassin) mixed with Bard (College of Whispers) for the Hitman style feel. Ignoring that character sheet's piss poor stats, I wouldn't mind having a go at him some day. Maybe suited for a single-player adventure with a like-minded DM.
I'll admit. I have a decided weakness for the old classic Arcane Trickster/Illusionist Wizard multiclass. Comes online as early as level 4, 3AT/1Wiz, and only gets better with every level you gain after that. I've never played it to high levels, but if I had it at 20th level I'd run it 16AT/4SoI. 16AT gets you eleven trickster spells and every rogue feature you need, as well as five of your six rogue ASIs. 4 School of Illusion Wizard nets you four additional cantrips plus Improved Minor Illusion (for a total of 10, if played on a High elf. Huzzah infinite utility!), twelve wizard spells by default on top of whatever you can copy into your book, access to first and second-level wizard spells (which comprises the bulk of the wizard's basic utility), and the ability to regain a second-level slot or two first-level slots with Arcane Recovery. On top of getting the first wizard ASI so you don't even lose one of those compared to going full rogue.
You have Improved Minor Illusion and Trickster's Mage Hand for endless shenanery, a slew of additional cantrips for the ultimate magical toolbelt, and your combat capabilities are fantastic as well. The sneak attack dice you lose to four levels of wizard, you gain back with the extra damage from Green Flame Blade. You have access to Shadow Blade from either Trickster or Wizard, to ensure you're never disarmed for more than a round and gain the ability to be a Reaper of Despair in the dark. Fourteen spell slots, one of them fifth, even though you're restricted to third-level spells and below in what you know. And if you run through all of those? You still have ten cantrips and all of your abilities as a rogue, which makes you better than half the other characters in your party even without any slot spells left at all.
It's kind of a miracle build that can do eighty percent of everything. You don't nova like a Sorlockadin, you can't Meteor Storm people, and no resurrecting the dead, but a well-built Trickster/Illusionist can do anything well enough to make a solid go of it. And the best part is that it really is ready to go and can take on that do-anything role from level 4, and without needing any fancy magic items to get it all to gel together. Adding more levels and items just makes it better, instead of making it possible.
They make a wonderful combo considering they both use Cha for casting, more spells for smite, enchantments for keeping your opponent still, the passive stuff from both, channel divinity. very good combo indeed
DwarvenBlood, they can cast spells from your paladin list if you are indeed multi-classing. Monks don't have any spells within the class themselves though. the way of the four elements is the closest you can get, and they aren't actually spells. while monks don't inherently have spells, they can cast spells gained though other means (such as feats that grant spells) as any other class can.
Monk/Ranger generally runs as primarily Monk (level 15+), with enough Ranger to gain a pile of extra damage dice on your attacks. Hunter's Mark is ridiculously powerful on a class that can attack 4+ times in one turn, and many munchkins will go Gloom Stalker to generate even more attacks with the Dread Ambusher ability. Gloom Stalker's enhanced darkvision and their anti-DV stealth also pairs extremely well with the Way of Shadows monk to produce an anime ninja. You also gain a fighting style, which is almost always Dueling simply because monks don't generally make use of anything else and adding a flat +2 to all of your shortsword attacks is pretty decent. Take Ranger to level 4 and no higher for the ASI, thus avoiding doubling up on Extra Attack and reducing the damage to your ki progression as much as possible.
I don't know how anyone can multi class anything without dipping in 2 Fighter and 2 Warlock.
Fighter - Action Surge, Armor Proficiencies, Fighting Style, great hit dice to boost your total HP
Warlock - Class feature Curse (or Heal on Bonus action with range), Cantrips and Spell ability, Invocations (Devil Sight is a game changer!)
There's not a single Feat that can compare to what you get dipping in 2+2 levels of this.
Feat, no.
Feat plus three class levels in whatever your main thing is? Quite possibly.
Warlock and Fighter dips are extremely strong, and Hexblade warlocks especially are game-warping, but there are reasons beyond story ones not to spend four levels on those two dips. It's a ton of damage to spell progression for casters, for example, or ki progression for a monk. Some classes get really strong abilities later in their progression as well, such as palladalladingdongs or, again, monks. You can make a really powerful character with a pinch of sugarlock and a dash of saltfighter, but it's not ideal for every character.
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I've looked at bladeslinging a few times, I don't see the appeal? On the face of it, it looks like a cool feature, but it's just so overwhelming vs a +4 to saves.
A bonus to AC which you'll need seeing a you can't be in medium/heavy armour shield, no 2Hweapon. you're better with a cleric dip for zero restrictions on armor/shield.
+10 walking speed, I can get this with longstrider.
Adv on Acrobatics checks, mediocre. OK dex and prof in acrobatics is similar.
INT modifier bonus to CON saves for concentration. Ho hum?
A decent mutliclass character will provide better than all this, with more benefits beyond.
I just hope i'm missing something, it's not bad, but war magic seems plain better?....
Keep in mind this is by and large just a straight fighter class - Fighter 18/Wizard 2, but two in wizard adds a ton of utility.
Compare:
EK - 5
2 cantrips, 4 level 1 spells known and 3 level 1 spell slots
1 ASI, Extra attack 1 (melee cantrips less useful now that you have the extra attack)
AC- Plate/Shield for 20, 18 if you plan on a two-handed weapon.
EK3-BS2
5 cantrips, 11 level 1 spells known, 4 level 1 spell slots, and 2 level 2 spell slots
Green Flame Blade/Booming Blade help keep up in damage because you dont' have the extra attack. You can get Find Familar: Owl as a ritual to give you the help action to get advantage on your one attack.
AC: Studded leather, Dex, Int, Shield Spell - 23, throw in Cause fear on a single target or Protection from Evil/Good if the situation warrants it for the concentration so the enemy get disadvantage to attack you, and with bladesong, proficient with con saves, you're likely going to be able to keep up your concentration spell. +7 for concentration saves.
(let's go with HIgh Elf, standard array, dex 16, int 16, con 13)
Add in the other fringe bladesong benefits - +10 speed, acrobatics advantage. The speed is the best part, 40 speed can make a difference. With shield spell up, you can run through a crowd of small creatures to try to soak up their opportunity attacks/reactions to make the rest of your party safer.
Add in the fact that with your 8 level 1 wizard spells, you can get a ton of utility -
detect magic, identify, comprehend languages, find familiar, tenser's floating disk, unseen servant, disguise self, feather fall
and more cantrips... mage hand, message, minor illusion.
Oh and on a rest, you get back a level 1 spell slot.
This build is a really strong 1v1 dualist. Hit with booming blade, back off to draw out the opportunity attack/reaction, keep shield up to avoid damage, make them chase you so your booming blade damage triggers.
Seriously... the build is so fun. And it can do some incredible role play stuff too.
Imagine having to get into a kings court to assassinate someone important. You can walk in completely unarmed and unarmored and looking totally nonthreatening. But you can summon the owl familiar, cast mage armor, resummon your sword, turn on bladesong/keep shield up in a fight, and you are at like... 95% power and you still have 4 spell slots left. More than the level 5 EK gets ever.
This is all at level 5.
Edit: you mentioned war magic - for a level 2 dip, it gives you arcane deflection (+2 ac for a single attack- way worse than the shield spell as a reaction. The best part is the +4 to a saving throw and it doesn't take a spell slot, but you also can't cast non-cantrip spells until the end of your next turn. Bladesong is a +3 to ac for a whole minute). And tactical wit - add int to initiative roles, which is worse than +int to concentration, +10 speed and advantage on acrobatics for an entire minute.
Of course if you're attacked you use your shield spell, but to be honest that's rarely needed with standard AC19. It's the +4 to saves which is the killer here (+6 later effectively). That's only 1 off a Paladin aura. That plus CON proficiency in the first place definitely means for a multiclasser War Magic reigns.
And my bard levels give me all I need in terms of boosts for acrobatics etc. And yeah, having to cast a cantrip only isn't actually that much of a detriment with Agonized Eldritch Blast.
Is that a bard/wizard/warlock multi class? Not sure we’re really talking about the same thing at this point
You asked me what you were missing- and I’m comparing a straight EK to a bladesong2-EK. The bladesinger dip makes it pretty much strictly better than just going straight Eldritch Knight
Yeah war magic has that one benefit of adding to saving throws, but if we’re talking for a level 2 dip (and going Eldritch Knight the rest of the way) I think the benefits of bladesong outweigh war magic. Different strokes for different folks.
I myself enjoy a combination of Raven Queen Warlock, Swashbuckler Rogue, and College of Lore Bard. I also take the feats Alert, and Observant. Race is Half-elf.
This gives me 11 skill proficiencies, 8 of which have Expertise. I have a max initiative mod of +18 and a min of +10 (this is assuming I'm max level) and a max passive perception of 31 and a min of 16, assuming you have at least +1 to wis and once again max level.
With fancy footwork from swashbuckler, I can disengage for free, making me an absolute troll in melee combat. Spellcasting gives me range and more versatility. Then with the Mask of Many Faces eldritch invocation and my pet bird's mimicry, I can be anyone I want, even you.
What is this about a pet bird mimicry? I'm currently having to take ACTOR feat for voice changing....
I like this particular set:
Fighter 5 (Brute), Barbarian 2, Paladin 2, Rouge 1. That is 10 levels of pure glory and strength. If I need to flesh out any class after that, I level it up.
Because I'm F2P with limited class options, someone try a Swashbuckler/Battle Master to see how that goes.
I have a question. So I have a level 9 Paladin and I am trying to multi class into monk . But i'm not sure if they can cast spells(monks).
Definitely single class ranger for all around great scores.
Check out my yt: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCoN6SZzVnYnQJRQ6m34C0ZA?view_as=subscriber
is it illegal to do that? ^^
https://ddb.ac/characters/11624407/wucDMP
A Shadar-Kai Rogue (Assassin) mixed with Bard (College of Whispers) for the Hitman style feel. Ignoring that character sheet's piss poor stats, I wouldn't mind having a go at him some day. Maybe suited for a single-player adventure with a like-minded DM.
I'm really enjoying my Swords Bard/Swashbuckler/Hexblade right now. Great at closing distance, dealing consistent damage, and slipping out safely.
Canto alla vita
alla sua bellezza
ad ogni sua ferita
ogni sua carezza!
I sing to life and to its tragic beauty
To pain and to strife, but all that dances through me
The rise and the fall, I've lived through it all!
I'll admit. I have a decided weakness for the old classic Arcane Trickster/Illusionist Wizard multiclass. Comes online as early as level 4, 3AT/1Wiz, and only gets better with every level you gain after that. I've never played it to high levels, but if I had it at 20th level I'd run it 16AT/4SoI. 16AT gets you eleven trickster spells and every rogue feature you need, as well as five of your six rogue ASIs. 4 School of Illusion Wizard nets you four additional cantrips plus Improved Minor Illusion (for a total of 10, if played on a High elf. Huzzah infinite utility!), twelve wizard spells by default on top of whatever you can copy into your book, access to first and second-level wizard spells (which comprises the bulk of the wizard's basic utility), and the ability to regain a second-level slot or two first-level slots with Arcane Recovery. On top of getting the first wizard ASI so you don't even lose one of those compared to going full rogue.
You have Improved Minor Illusion and Trickster's Mage Hand for endless shenanery, a slew of additional cantrips for the ultimate magical toolbelt, and your combat capabilities are fantastic as well. The sneak attack dice you lose to four levels of wizard, you gain back with the extra damage from Green Flame Blade. You have access to Shadow Blade from either Trickster or Wizard, to ensure you're never disarmed for more than a round and gain the ability to be a Reaper of Despair in the dark. Fourteen spell slots, one of them fifth, even though you're restricted to third-level spells and below in what you know. And if you run through all of those? You still have ten cantrips and all of your abilities as a rogue, which makes you better than half the other characters in your party even without any slot spells left at all.
It's kind of a miracle build that can do eighty percent of everything. You don't nova like a Sorlockadin, you can't Meteor Storm people, and no resurrecting the dead, but a well-built Trickster/Illusionist can do anything well enough to make a solid go of it. And the best part is that it really is ready to go and can take on that do-anything role from level 4, and without needing any fancy magic items to get it all to gel together. Adding more levels and items just makes it better, instead of making it possible.
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They make a wonderful combo considering they both use Cha for casting, more spells for smite, enchantments for keeping your opponent still, the passive stuff from both, channel divinity. very good combo indeed
DwarvenBlood, they can cast spells from your paladin list if you are indeed multi-classing. Monks don't have any spells within the class themselves though. the way of the four elements is the closest you can get, and they aren't actually spells. while monks don't inherently have spells, they can cast spells gained though other means (such as feats that grant spells) as any other class can.
Looking for advice on a Monk/Ranger multi class. Saw a some posts on it, but unhelpful on how best to build in later levels.
Thanks!
Monk/Ranger generally runs as primarily Monk (level 15+), with enough Ranger to gain a pile of extra damage dice on your attacks. Hunter's Mark is ridiculously powerful on a class that can attack 4+ times in one turn, and many munchkins will go Gloom Stalker to generate even more attacks with the Dread Ambusher ability. Gloom Stalker's enhanced darkvision and their anti-DV stealth also pairs extremely well with the Way of Shadows monk to produce an anime ninja. You also gain a fighting style, which is almost always Dueling simply because monks don't generally make use of anything else and adding a flat +2 to all of your shortsword attacks is pretty decent. Take Ranger to level 4 and no higher for the ASI, thus avoiding doubling up on Extra Attack and reducing the damage to your ki progression as much as possible.
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I don't know how anyone can multi class anything without dipping in 2 Fighter and 2 Warlock.
Fighter - Action Surge, Armor Proficiencies, Fighting Style, great hit dice to boost your total HP
Warlock - Class feature Curse (or Heal on Bonus action with range), Cantrips and Spell ability, Invocations (Devil Sight is a game changer!)
There's not a single Feat that can compare to what you get dipping in 2+2 levels of this.
If you want sugar coating, go buy a dessert....
Yup.
And focussing on CHA only instead of STR/DEX for melee, brilliant.
Feat, no.
Feat plus three class levels in whatever your main thing is? Quite possibly.
Warlock and Fighter dips are extremely strong, and Hexblade warlocks especially are game-warping, but there are reasons beyond story ones not to spend four levels on those two dips. It's a ton of damage to spell progression for casters, for example, or ki progression for a monk. Some classes get really strong abilities later in their progression as well, such as palladalladingdongs or, again, monks. You can make a really powerful character with a pinch of sugarlock and a dash of saltfighter, but it's not ideal for every character.
Please do not contact or message me.