Ok so i'm running a large group of players and sometimes to combat the power level and scale accordingly this mean i need large enemy groups. Here is the problem. While the players do like the sessions, a single round is looong!
Any tips? I've heard about grouping enemies together, but how exactly would this work. Sometimes i reduce their HP and other times ignore it altogether.
How large is large? Because while this isn't the solution you probably want to hear, but more than 5-6 is too many people, and 6 is pushing it. As a player, I find 4 (plus the DM) to be the sweet spot between enough to have interesting combats, and not so many that things move slowly. Even if people are moving quickly, for players it can mean a 20-minute wait between turns. Sometimes the answer is to break the group in half, hard as that is.
That said. There's lots of other reasons things can move slow. Casters (really anyone) with analysis paralysis, characters with pets (beastmasters, wildfire druids, necromancers, summoners etc.) People who don't know the rules well or what their character can do. Some people go with 1-minute egg timers to help push players to make faster decisions about their turn, I've heard. Can you describe more about where the slowdowns occur?
Have 6 players, and that's the max. Aware of the casters and other issues.
Its the enemies that are a potential source that could do with time shaving.
Hmmm. I usually have them all go on the same initiative count, which can help. All of the same type. So if there’s four melees and a caster, melees on one count, caster on a different one. Basically, everyone with the same init modifier goes at the same time. Personally, I move them all, then start rolling. If that means a PC drops and a bad guy is left with nothing to do, no big deal. Players like the consolation prize.
Or you might try a couple fewer enemies, but make them a bit beefier. So it’s not as much for you to do, but they last longer.
Try a changed initiative. it’s not rules based but you can have all enemies or players take their turns then switch to the other side.
have everyone roll initiative and highest single roll on either aide wins it for the team. potentially let them pick their turn orders too.
Pros: smooths out initiative quite a bit, players worry about players, you worry about enemies. smooths out reaction tracking too. allows for resource investment into one character to help players support a high initiative character.
Cons: winning or loosing initiative is substantially more impactful. enemies or players who win initiative and make use of focus fire on a single target will be much more deadly. Surprise is also either much more powerful or almost entirely negated.
Could also delegate inititive/turn order tracking to a player who might have a “simple” built character since they are tracking much less.
also potentially reward players who take their turns quickly? inspiration or other situational bonuses could be awarded if making use of a timer like previously suggested. “speed” dnd could be a cool way to play. could call the bonus “momentum” or something.
+1 to Xalthu's statement "Or you might try a couple fewer enemies, but make them a bit beefier. So it’s not as much for you to do, but they last longer."
If the party is easily wiping out the encounters you're throwing at them, try throwing harder CR encounters at them. You should be able to look at your player's tactics and figure something out to counter them easily enough. Like enemies that are immune or resistant to certain types of damage or spell effects.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Aut Inveniam Viam Aut Faciam (Find a way or make one) - Hannibal Allegedly
Lessons learned in blood are not soon forgotten. - Clyde Shelton
The truth is not what you want it to be; it is what it is and you must bow to it's power or live a lie. -Miyamoto Musashi
Fewer enemies with bigger attacks seems like the best way to solve your problem. 5e combat is really designed for groups of fairly equal size anyway; things get very swingy when one side is much larger than the other.
You should also optimize your own turns by making sure you have all your players ACs and your monsters' attack modifiers in front of you at the start of combat; asking "does a 16 hit?" each time you roll is a big time sink compared to just declaring "that's a hit".
If you really want to trim things down, don't roll damage for the monsters; just use the average of their damage dice. So 2d6 is always 7, 1d6+2 is always 6, etc. A lot of people think that will lead to stale encounters, but frankly if you're relying on the variability of your dice to keep your players engaged in combat, you built a bad combat. The Lancer RPG system doesn't even include damage dice for NPCs, and I promise nobody is complaining about Lancer's combat being too stale.
When I use large numbers of enemies, I do tactical movement, roll a bunch of dice in giant handfuls, and divide them according to how they land on the table. So John get's the dice closest to him, Jane get's the dice closest to her. Roll every attack, and every damage die, all at once, and just push each to-hit/damage combo towards the relevant player.
That's fast enough for my purposes.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Blanket disclaimer: I only ever state opinion. But I can sound terribly dogmatic - so if you feel I'm trying to tell you what to think, I'm really not, I swear. I'm telling you what I think, that's all.
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
Ok so i'm running a large group of players and sometimes to combat the power level and scale accordingly this mean i need large enemy groups. Here is the problem. While the players do like the sessions, a single round is looong!
Any tips?
I've heard about grouping enemies together, but how exactly would this work.
Sometimes i reduce their HP and other times ignore it altogether.
Thank you
How large is large? Because while this isn't the solution you probably want to hear, but more than 5-6 is too many people, and 6 is pushing it. As a player, I find 4 (plus the DM) to be the sweet spot between enough to have interesting combats, and not so many that things move slowly. Even if people are moving quickly, for players it can mean a 20-minute wait between turns. Sometimes the answer is to break the group in half, hard as that is.
That said. There's lots of other reasons things can move slow. Casters (really anyone) with analysis paralysis, characters with pets (beastmasters, wildfire druids, necromancers, summoners etc.) People who don't know the rules well or what their character can do. Some people go with 1-minute egg timers to help push players to make faster decisions about their turn, I've heard. Can you describe more about where the slowdowns occur?
Have 6 players, and that's the max. Aware of the casters and other issues.
Its the enemies that are a potential source that could do with time shaving.
Hmmm. I usually have them all go on the same initiative count, which can help. All of the same type. So if there’s four melees and a caster, melees on one count, caster on a different one. Basically, everyone with the same init modifier goes at the same time. Personally, I move them all, then start rolling. If that means a PC drops and a bad guy is left with nothing to do, no big deal. Players like the consolation prize.
Or you might try a couple fewer enemies, but make them a bit beefier. So it’s not as much for you to do, but they last longer.
Try a changed initiative. it’s not rules based but you can have all enemies or players take their turns then switch to the other side.
have everyone roll initiative and highest single roll on either aide wins it for the team. potentially let them pick their turn orders too.
Pros: smooths out initiative quite a bit, players worry about players, you worry about enemies. smooths out reaction tracking too. allows for resource investment into one character to help players support a high initiative character.
Cons: winning or loosing initiative is substantially more impactful. enemies or players who win initiative and make use of focus fire on a single target will be much more deadly. Surprise is also either much more powerful or almost entirely negated.
Could also delegate inititive/turn order tracking to a player who might have a “simple” built character since they are tracking much less.
also potentially reward players who take their turns quickly? inspiration or other situational bonuses could be awarded if making use of a timer like previously suggested. “speed” dnd could be a cool way to play. could call the bonus “momentum” or something.
+1 to Xalthu's statement "Or you might try a couple fewer enemies, but make them a bit beefier. So it’s not as much for you to do, but they last longer."
If the party is easily wiping out the encounters you're throwing at them, try throwing harder CR encounters at them. You should be able to look at your player's tactics and figure something out to counter them easily enough. Like enemies that are immune or resistant to certain types of damage or spell effects.
Aut Inveniam Viam Aut Faciam (Find a way or make one) - Hannibal Allegedly
Lessons learned in blood are not soon forgotten. - Clyde Shelton
The truth is not what you want it to be; it is what it is and you must bow to it's power or live a lie. -Miyamoto Musashi
Fewer enemies with bigger attacks seems like the best way to solve your problem. 5e combat is really designed for groups of fairly equal size anyway; things get very swingy when one side is much larger than the other.
You should also optimize your own turns by making sure you have all your players ACs and your monsters' attack modifiers in front of you at the start of combat; asking "does a 16 hit?" each time you roll is a big time sink compared to just declaring "that's a hit".
If you really want to trim things down, don't roll damage for the monsters; just use the average of their damage dice. So 2d6 is always 7, 1d6+2 is always 6, etc. A lot of people think that will lead to stale encounters, but frankly if you're relying on the variability of your dice to keep your players engaged in combat, you built a bad combat. The Lancer RPG system doesn't even include damage dice for NPCs, and I promise nobody is complaining about Lancer's combat being too stale.
When I use large numbers of enemies, I do tactical movement, roll a bunch of dice in giant handfuls, and divide them according to how they land on the table. So John get's the dice closest to him, Jane get's the dice closest to her. Roll every attack, and every damage die, all at once, and just push each to-hit/damage combo towards the relevant player.
That's fast enough for my purposes.
Blanket disclaimer: I only ever state opinion. But I can sound terribly dogmatic - so if you feel I'm trying to tell you what to think, I'm really not, I swear. I'm telling you what I think, that's all.