Good partner build seems to have gotten even easier with One DnD. A real heachache for any enemy is achievable by level four, but good even at lv1 if you both take:
Protection Fighting Style Feat (shield)
Reaction to give all attacks against your ally within 5ft. disadvantage
Sentinel Feat (4 level) and Topple Weapon Mastery (Battleaxe or Trident)
If an enemy attacks your ally, opportunity attacks: potentially knocking them prone and they can’t get up again (zero speed)
So essentially, you both always have an option for you reaction:
If your partner is being focussed protect them.
Or there are less enemies (in melee) potentially attack them and knock them prone
If an enemy runs, punish hard
You are constantly giving each other advantage from enemies being prone. It seems pretty strong and would be even stronger with Mounted Combatant with one of you being a Goliath (if DM allowed) or a Centaur with one of the many ways to grow to large.
Both taking both is a waste. What you should do is one person builds for defense (high AC fighter/paladin + Protection) the other person builds for DPR (Barbarian + GWM + Sentinel), then if the enemy attacks the DPR-er the defender uses protection to give them disadvantage if the enemy attacks the defender the DPRer gets an extra reaction attack.
Topple is a funny one, TBH. Everyone claimed Monk is super weak because Stunning Strike never lands because it is a CON save, yet now everyone is assuming Topple will work all the time despite it also being a CON save...
Oh I know you would customise your approach based on class choice. But this type of shield brother/sister idea is so flexible for a base to make synergistic characters.
a whole party could defend each other if four of you stood in a square. One could be a paladin for the aura…
In regards to Topple, it’s very different to stunning strike because it is free and on every attack.
Edit: I've just seen the new Shield Master... it doesn't require a bonus action (the bash is completly free 1/turn) and so if you would prefer to target strength then Shield Master can knock an enemy prone instead which you could combo with Slow or Push
In regards to Topple, it’s very different to stunning strike because it is free and on every attack.
Stunning Strike could also be used on any/every attack (though not in 2024) sure it's not "free" but neither is topple since you're giving up a different WM feature to use it. I just find it so funny that the exact same people who claimed StunStrike was useless are now designing builds swapping around 4 different WMs in one turn because they assume the first Topple will be effective (when if you calculate it out there is only ~30% chance of an attack made with weapon with Topple ending with the target being prone). Shield Master bash has < 50% chance of being successful since they get to choose STR or DEX, whichever is higher (assuming it still uses the standard shove mechanics) and for most enemies one of the two will be their highest stat because they use it for their attacks, but still more likely than one attack with Topple.
Considering that Ray of Frost already does Slow, and players almost universally choose Fire Bolt instead because it does extra damage, I doubt the Slow WM will actually be particularly popular. Especially since the number of weapon mastery's any character gets it pretty limited. No, my prediction is : Dex-based characters & Sword+Board characters will use Vex & Nick, Str-based Two-handed weapon characters will use Topple, Cleave, and Graze. There will be some Tank builds that use Sap, Slow, and Push but they'll remain niche, because "tank" is just the martial equivalent of "healer" neither of which have ever been super popular because it's much more fun to be the guy killing the dragon than the guy protecting the guy killing the dragon.
A monk is sacrificing a lot when they use a stunning strike that doesn't work - even more so if they do it on every attack until it works! And the big thing with stunning strike was that it scaled with Wisdom when most monks wanted to invest in Dexterity (lots of feels bad, for an otherwise fun and very swingy ability)
As Topple is investing in your main stat it is more likely to work and if it doesn't then what you lose is much less: weapon damage on a different creature in 5ft 1/turn (cleave) or 3-5 damage on a miss (Graze)... Nick and Push are the only one that feels bad, and this is only really for Light weapons or Polearms respectively
BUT anyway this conversation is WAY off topic. What do you think of the increased viability of simply synergistic builds in terms of defense?
Good partner build seems to have gotten even easier with One DnD. A real heachache for any enemy is achievable by level four, but good even at lv1 if you both take:
Reaction to give all attacks against your ally within 5ft. disadvantage
If an enemy attacks your ally, opportunity attacks: potentially knocking them prone and they can’t get up again (zero speed)
So essentially, you both always have an option for you reaction:
You are constantly giving each other advantage from enemies being prone. It seems pretty strong and would be even stronger with Mounted Combatant with one of you being a Goliath (if DM allowed) or a Centaur with one of the many ways to grow to large.
Both taking both is a waste. What you should do is one person builds for defense (high AC fighter/paladin + Protection) the other person builds for DPR (Barbarian + GWM + Sentinel), then if the enemy attacks the DPR-er the defender uses protection to give them disadvantage if the enemy attacks the defender the DPRer gets an extra reaction attack.
Topple is a funny one, TBH. Everyone claimed Monk is super weak because Stunning Strike never lands because it is a CON save, yet now everyone is assuming Topple will work all the time despite it also being a CON save...
Oh I know you would customise your approach based on class choice. But this type of shield brother/sister idea is so flexible for a base to make synergistic characters.
a whole party could defend each other if four of you stood in a square. One could be a paladin for the aura…
In regards to Topple, it’s very different to stunning strike because it is free and on every attack.
Edit: I've just seen the new Shield Master... it doesn't require a bonus action (the bash is completly free 1/turn) and so if you would prefer to target strength then Shield Master can knock an enemy prone instead which you could combo with Slow or Push
Stunning Strike could also be used on any/every attack (though not in 2024) sure it's not "free" but neither is topple since you're giving up a different WM feature to use it. I just find it so funny that the exact same people who claimed StunStrike was useless are now designing builds swapping around 4 different WMs in one turn because they assume the first Topple will be effective (when if you calculate it out there is only ~30% chance of an attack made with weapon with Topple ending with the target being prone). Shield Master bash has < 50% chance of being successful since they get to choose STR or DEX, whichever is higher (assuming it still uses the standard shove mechanics) and for most enemies one of the two will be their highest stat because they use it for their attacks, but still more likely than one attack with Topple.
Considering that Ray of Frost already does Slow, and players almost universally choose Fire Bolt instead because it does extra damage, I doubt the Slow WM will actually be particularly popular. Especially since the number of weapon mastery's any character gets it pretty limited. No, my prediction is : Dex-based characters & Sword+Board characters will use Vex & Nick, Str-based Two-handed weapon characters will use Topple, Cleave, and Graze. There will be some Tank builds that use Sap, Slow, and Push but they'll remain niche, because "tank" is just the martial equivalent of "healer" neither of which have ever been super popular because it's much more fun to be the guy killing the dragon than the guy protecting the guy killing the dragon.
Opportunity cost ≠ resources cost
A monk is sacrificing a lot when they use a stunning strike that doesn't work - even more so if they do it on every attack until it works! And the big thing with stunning strike was that it scaled with Wisdom when most monks wanted to invest in Dexterity (lots of feels bad, for an otherwise fun and very swingy ability)
As Topple is investing in your main stat it is more likely to work and if it doesn't then what you lose is much less: weapon damage on a different creature in 5ft 1/turn (cleave) or 3-5 damage on a miss (Graze)... Nick and Push are the only one that feels bad, and this is only really for Light weapons or Polearms respectively
BUT anyway this conversation is WAY off topic. What do you think of the increased viability of simply synergistic builds in terms of defense?