Punch and Grab. On your turn, when you hit a creature with an Unarmed Strike you can use both the Damage and the Grapple option. You can use this benefit only once per turn.
Attacks Affected. You have Disadvantage on attack rolls against any target other than the grappler.
Movable. The grappler can drag or carry you when it moves, but every foot of movement costs it 1 extra foot unless you are Tiny or two or more sizes smaller than it.
Shove. The target must succeed on a Str./Dex. (it chooses which) saving throw (DC = 8 + Prof. Bonus + Str.) or you can either push it 5 ft. away or cause it to have the Prone condition.
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I would have assumed that shoving a grappled creature would at least impose disadvantage on the save of the creature being shoved but I see no evidence of such. It would appear that there is zero benefit in trying to grapple a creature before you shove it prone, and that seems odd.
There is no benefit to grappling first and shoving second. However grapple+shove is a good combination since grapple prevents the prone creature from standing up.
There is no benefit to grappling first and shoving second. However grapple+shove is a good combination since grapple prevents the prone creature from standing up.
A better method would appear to be to first shove prone and then grapple since at least the prone condition grants an advantage on the attack when one tries to grapple.
There is no benefit to grappling first and shoving second. However grapple+shove is a good combination since grapple prevents the prone creature from standing up.
A better method would appear to be to first shove prone and then grapple since at least the prone condition grants an advantage on the attack when one tries to grapple.
There's no Advantage to Grappling a Prone creature because isn't an attack roll, but a saving throw.
Incorrect. By 2024 rules to grapple you make an un armed strike. If the hit succeeds you can grapple them instead of doing damage. Them being prone would give you advantage on the unarmed strike. Instead to doing damage the target then makes a saving throw against your grappled DC ( 8+str+pof). If they fail they're grappled. Prone has no effect on the save but it does give Advantage on the unarmed strike that initiated the grapple attempt.
Incorrect. By 2024 rules to grapple you make an un armed strike. If the hit succeeds you can grapple them instead of doing damage. Them being prone would give you advantage on the unarmed strike. Instead to doing damage the target then makes a saving throw against your grappled DC ( 8+str+pof). If they fail they're grappled. Prone has no effect on the save but it does give Advantage on the unarmed strike that initiated the grapple attempt.
Wrong, that was how it worked in one of the UAs, the published 2024 rule set is : you decide to make an Unarmed Strike, you pick which type of strike you want: damage, grapple, shove, you or the target rolls either one attack or one save depending on your choice.
Enemies failing a save is ~50% chance, players hitting with an attack is ~65%, if you needed to hit and the enemy needed to make a save that's ~35% success rate, making grappling always a terrible choice.
Incorrect. By 2024 rules to grapple you make an un armed strike. If the hit succeeds you can grapple them instead of doing damage. Them being prone would give you advantage on the unarmed strike. Instead to doing damage the target then makes a saving throw against your grappled DC ( 8+str+pof). If they fail they're grappled. Prone has no effect on the save but it does give Advantage on the unarmed strike that initiated the grapple attempt.
Agilemind is correct and I thought the same way you are. But there is no attack roll to make if you intend to grapple or shove. the target just makes the save.
Incorrect. By 2024 rules to grapple you make an un armed strike. If the hit succeeds you can grapple them instead of doing damage. Them being prone would give you advantage on the unarmed strike. Instead to doing damage the target then makes a saving throw against your grappled DC ( 8+str+pof). If they fail they're grappled. Prone has no effect on the save but it does give Advantage on the unarmed strike that initiated the grapple attempt.
Wrong, that was how it worked in one of the UAs, the published 2024 rule set is : you decide to make an Unarmed Strike, you pick which type of strike you want: damage, grapple, shove, you or the target rolls either one attack or one save depending on your choice.
Enemies failing a save is ~50% chance, players hitting with an attack is ~65%, if you needed to hit and the enemy needed to make a save that's ~35% success rate, making grappling always a terrible choice.
I'm a newbee and building a Monk - Open Hand. For level 4, I'm considering to take the Grappler feat. From a story telling point of view it makes a lot of sense to me for an Open Hand Monk. As pointed out, the combination of prone > grapple seems a really nice combo.
I''m trying to understand if this is a good choice. The rules say:
Punch and Grab. When you hit a creature with an Unarmed Strike as part of the Attack action on your turn, you can use both the Damage and the Grapple option. You can use this benefit only once per turn.
I read this as: 1) you make an attack roll for Unarmed Strike (as action, not as bonus action) 2 )if hit: you can do BOTH a damage roll for the Damage action AND the target has to make a saving throw for the Grapple. Right? The extra Grapple mitigates the low 35% chance to some extent as on miss/save, I could spend another bonus action for a Grapple. But, the odds are still not great. Another disadvantage is that I would get twice Advantage (both from Prone and from the Grappler Feat) and as they don't stack, that feels not a bit of waste.
The main point of grapple after shove/prone is to reduce the speed of the target, to keep it prone. Perhaps there is better alternative? Recall this is for an Open Hand Monk. Other considerations or advice?
Incorrect. By 2024 rules to grapple you make an un armed strike. If the hit succeeds you can grapple them instead of doing damage. Them being prone would give you advantage on the unarmed strike. Instead to doing damage the target then makes a saving throw against your grappled DC ( 8+str+pof). If they fail they're grappled. Prone has no effect on the save but it does give Advantage on the unarmed strike that initiated the grapple attempt.
Wrong, that was how it worked in one of the UAs, the published 2024 rule set is : you decide to make an Unarmed Strike, you pick which type of strike you want: damage, grapple, shove, you or the target rolls either one attack or one save depending on your choice.
Enemies failing a save is ~50% chance, players hitting with an attack is ~65%, if you needed to hit and the enemy needed to make a save that's ~35% success rate, making grappling always a terrible choice.
I'm a newbee and building a Monk - Open Hand. For level 4, I'm considering to take the Grappler feat. From a story telling point of view it makes a lot of sense to me for an Open Hand Monk. As pointed out, the combination of prone > grapple seems a really nice combo.
I''m trying to understand if this is a good choice. The rules say:
Punch and Grab. When you hit a creature with an Unarmed Strike as part of the Attack action on your turn, you can use both the Damage and the Grapple option. You can use this benefit only once per turn.
I read this as: 1) you make an attack roll for Unarmed Strike (as action, not as bonus action) 2 )if hit: you can do BOTH a damage roll for the Damage action AND the target has to make a saving throw for the Grapple. Right? The extra Grapple mitigates the low 35% chance to some extent as on miss/save, I could spend another bonus action for a Grapple. But, the odds are still not great. Another disadvantage is that I would get twice Advantage (both from Prone and from the Grappler Feat) and as they don't stack, that feels not a bit of waste.
The main point of grapple after shove/prone is to reduce the speed of the target, to keep it prone. Perhaps there is better alternative? Recall this is for an Open Hand Monk. Other considerations or advice?
You can use both the Damage and the Grapple option on that attack. That means that you both roll an attack for the Damage option and the target rolls a saving throw for the Grapple option. Neither of them is contingent on the other one succeeding; they're happening at the same time.
I''m trying to understand if this is a good choice. The rules say:
Punch and Grab. When you hit a creature with an Unarmed Strike as part of the Attack action on your turn, you can use both the Damage and the Grapple option. You can use this benefit only once per turn.
I read this as: 1) you make an attack roll for Unarmed Strike (as action, not as bonus action) 2 )if hit: you can do BOTH a damage roll for the Damage action AND the target has to make a saving throw for the Grapple. Right? The extra Grapple mitigates the low 35% chance to some extent as on miss/save, I could spend another bonus action for a Grapple. But, the odds are still not great. Another disadvantage is that I would get twice Advantage (both from Prone and from the Grappler Feat) and as they don't stack, that feels not a bit of waste.
The main point of grapple after shove/prone is to reduce the speed of the target, to keep it prone. Perhaps there is better alternative? Recall this is for an Open Hand Monk. Other considerations or advice?
You can use both the Damage and the Grapple option on that attack. That means that you both roll an attack for the Damage option and the target rolls a saving throw for the Grapple option. Neither of them is contingent on the other one succeeding; they're happening at the same time.
The Punch and Grab option from the '24 Grappler Feat does indeed make the Grapple attempt contingent on the initial attack hitting . "When you hit a creature with an Unarmed Strike as part of the Attack action on your turn," is explicitly part of the description.
If it doesn't work, you are, of course, free to use any subsequent Unarmed Strikes you may have to re-attempt the Grapple, though the lesson of the 2014 version of True Strike applies; In almost all circumstances, two normal Attacks are better than one Attack with Advantage.
That said, if your aim is not to get the advantage, but , say, the Fast Grappler option to put the foe somewhere advantageous to your side (back inside an ongoing Area of Effect, behind a door, or off a nearby bridge, cliff, or balcony)
And since Saving Throws are now voluntary, Fast Grappler lets a Monk move willing party members across the battlefield quite swiftly. Grapple the Sorcerer and move him out of reach of the foe, so he doesn't have to choose between Disengaging this turn and risking losing Concentration. Grapple the Barbarian and move her across the map into melee to get Damage Now instead of having her spend her Action closing and bonus action maintaining Rage.
There is no benefit to grappling first and shoving second. However grapple+shove is a good combination since grapple prevents the prone creature from standing up.
A better method would appear to be to first shove prone and then grapple since at least the prone condition grants an advantage on the attack when one tries to grapple.
There's no Advantage to Grappling a Prone creature because isn't an attack roll, but a saving throw.
Huge advantage in that if the grappled creature fails the save it now has a zero speed and remains prone.
There is no benefit to grappling first and shoving second. However grapple+shove is a good combination since grapple prevents the prone creature from standing up.
A better method would appear to be to first shove prone and then grapple since at least the prone condition grants an advantage on the attack when one tries to grapple.
There's no Advantage to Grappling a Prone creature because isn't an attack roll, but a saving throw.
Huge advantage in that if the grappled creature fails the save it now has a zero speed and remains prone.
The post you're replying to was referring to the game mechanic Advantage, not the English term "advantage."
Punch and Grab. On your turn, when you hit a creature with an Unarmed Strike you can use both the Damage and the Grapple option. You can use this benefit only once per turn.
Grappled condition:
Speed 0. Your Speed is 0 and can’t increase.
Attacks Affected. You have Disadvantage on attack rolls against any target other than the grappler.
Movable. The grappler can drag or carry you when it moves, but every foot of movement costs it 1 extra foot unless you are Tiny or two or more sizes smaller than it.
Shove. The target must succeed on a Str./Dex. (it chooses which) saving throw (DC = 8 + Prof. Bonus + Str.) or you can either push it 5 ft. away or cause it to have the Prone condition.
-----------------------------
I would have assumed that shoving a grappled creature would at least impose disadvantage on the save of the creature being shoved but I see no evidence of such. It would appear that there is zero benefit in trying to grapple a creature before you shove it prone, and that seems odd.
Having the Grappled condition doesn't give Disadvantage to saving throws.
There is no benefit to grappling first and shoving second. However grapple+shove is a good combination since grapple prevents the prone creature from standing up.
Yes, if you have both the Grappled and Prone condition, you must first escape the grapple before you can move, crawl or right yourself.
A better method would appear to be to first shove prone and then grapple since at least the prone condition grants an advantage on the attack when one tries to grapple.
There's no Advantage to Grappling a Prone creature because isn't an attack roll, but a saving throw.
Incorrect. By 2024 rules to grapple you make an un armed strike. If the hit succeeds you can grapple them instead of doing damage. Them being prone would give you advantage on the unarmed strike. Instead to doing damage the target then makes a saving throw against your grappled DC ( 8+str+pof). If they fail they're grappled. Prone has no effect on the save but it does give Advantage on the unarmed strike that initiated the grapple attempt.
Wrong, that was how it worked in one of the UAs, the published 2024 rule set is : you decide to make an Unarmed Strike, you pick which type of strike you want: damage, grapple, shove, you or the target rolls either one attack or one save depending on your choice.
Enemies failing a save is ~50% chance, players hitting with an attack is ~65%, if you needed to hit and the enemy needed to make a save that's ~35% success rate, making grappling always a terrible choice.
Agilemind is correct and I thought the same way you are. But there is no attack roll to make if you intend to grapple or shove. the target just makes the save.
EZD6 by DM Scotty
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/397599/EZD6-Core-Rulebook?
I'm a newbee and building a Monk - Open Hand. For level 4, I'm considering to take the Grappler feat. From a story telling point of view it makes a lot of sense to me for an Open Hand Monk. As pointed out, the combination of prone > grapple seems a really nice combo.
I''m trying to understand if this is a good choice. The rules say:
I read this as: 1) you make an attack roll for Unarmed Strike (as action, not as bonus action) 2 )if hit: you can do BOTH a damage roll for the Damage action AND the target has to make a saving throw for the Grapple. Right? The extra Grapple mitigates the low 35% chance to some extent as on miss/save, I could spend another bonus action for a Grapple. But, the odds are still not great. Another disadvantage is that I would get twice Advantage (both from Prone and from the Grappler Feat) and as they don't stack, that feels not a bit of waste.
The main point of grapple after shove/prone is to reduce the speed of the target, to keep it prone. Perhaps there is better alternative? Recall this is for an Open Hand Monk. Other considerations or advice?
You can use both the Damage and the Grapple option on that attack. That means that you both roll an attack for the Damage option and the target rolls a saving throw for the Grapple option. Neither of them is contingent on the other one succeeding; they're happening at the same time.
pronouns: he/she/they
The Punch and Grab option from the '24 Grappler Feat does indeed make the Grapple attempt contingent on the initial attack hitting . "When you hit a creature with an Unarmed Strike as part of the Attack action on your turn," is explicitly part of the description.
If it doesn't work, you are, of course, free to use any subsequent Unarmed Strikes you may have to re-attempt the Grapple, though the lesson of the 2014 version of True Strike applies; In almost all circumstances, two normal Attacks are better than one Attack with Advantage.
That said, if your aim is not to get the advantage, but , say, the Fast Grappler option to put the foe somewhere advantageous to your side (back inside an ongoing Area of Effect, behind a door, or off a nearby bridge, cliff, or balcony)
And since Saving Throws are now voluntary, Fast Grappler lets a Monk move willing party members across the battlefield quite swiftly. Grapple the Sorcerer and move him out of reach of the foe, so he doesn't have to choose between Disengaging this turn and risking losing Concentration. Grapple the Barbarian and move her across the map into melee to get Damage Now instead of having her spend her Action closing and bonus action maintaining Rage.
🎵I'm on top of the world, looking down on creation, wreaking death and devastation with my mind.
As the power that I've found erupts freely from the ground, I will cackle from the top of the world.🎵
Charisma Saving Throw: DC 18, Failure: 20d6 Psychic Damage, Success: Half damage
Huge advantage in that if the grappled creature fails the save it now has a zero speed and remains prone.
The post you're replying to was referring to the game mechanic Advantage, not the English term "advantage."
🎵I'm on top of the world, looking down on creation, wreaking death and devastation with my mind.
As the power that I've found erupts freely from the ground, I will cackle from the top of the world.🎵
Charisma Saving Throw: DC 18, Failure: 20d6 Psychic Damage, Success: Half damage