Savage Attacks from Half-Orc means you roll +1 die A 9th lvl Half Orc Barbarian with a Greatsword rolls: 2d6+STR +2d6 (critical) +1d6 (Savage Attacks) +1d6 (Brutal Critical) for 6d6+STR for an average of 18+STR (min 6+STR / max 36+STR)
A 9th lvl Half Orc Barbarian with a Greataxe rolls: 1d12+STR +1d12 (critical) +1d12 (Savage Attacks) +1d12 (Brutal Critical) for 4d12+STR for average of 24+STR (min 4+STR / max 48+STR)
I think you’re math is a little off. The “weapon die” for a great sword is 2d6, so both get rerolled.
I have: 2d6 for the Greatsword 2d6 for the Critical 1d6 for Savage Attacks "When you score a critical hit with a melee weapon attack, you can roll one of the weapon’s damage dice one additional time and add it to the extra damage of the critical hit." 1d6 for Brutal Critical "Beginning at 9th level, you can roll one additional weapon damage die when determining the extra damage for a critical hit with a melee attack." this is 6d6 damage on a critical.
I've always interpreted these above rules as adding a SINGLE additional weapon damage die. If I am incorrect in that interpretation, please let me know.
The answer is one D8 because rolling D4 is annoying :)
Yeah i never understood why they even made a D4 to begin with, i hate this dice, it makes me always grunt when i see stuff like healing spells or potions using D4's...
Darn thing costed you a frakin 100gp but you only get 4 or 5 hp on average from it...
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"Normality is but an Illusion, Whats normal to the Spider, is only madness for the Fly"
The d4 was made because D&D's various dice were taken from a geometry class room using the different shapes to showcase different three dimensional shapes. And you got to have a pyramid if we're talking 3d shapes. So, they felt the need to make the d4 a thing.
We normally use averages in our game* (especially the DM), so 1d8's average (4.5, rounded down to 4), is absolutely worse than 2d4s' (5). Plus, 5's are easy numbers to add up if dealing with dozens of results.
*The deviation from using damage dice isn't really worth the effort, especially at higher levels (i.e. the more dice you roll, the more average the results become anyway). And no, dice don't aid immersion. I normally avoid DM's that spend the group's precious table-time rolling damage dice.
I say the 2 D4, mostly because the minimum damage is higher and i always base my decisions on what is the worst thing that can happen when i roll, because my luck with rolls would be like if a broken mirror crossed paths with a black cat under a ladder and the resulting bad luck accidentally spilled salt while opening an umbrella indoors on friday the 13th.
If you're looking at average damage over the long haul, 2d4 is going to be slightly better than 1d8, from a purely mathematical perspective. But if you're talking about a character build, there are always other factors. I haven't done all the math myself, because I treat D&D like a game and not a statistics essay. But based on what I've seen from folks who have done that kind of math, the differences are small enough that I'm just going to go with what feels right for my character and enjoy. Plus, averaging over a long period of time doesn't seem like it matters all that much, since damage rolls from one battle don't affect the outcome of another battle. So a more useful way to look at it would be to use a sample size based on how many damage rolls you can reasonably expect to make in a battle, calculate the average damage as well as a likely margin of error/variance. And at THAT point, realize that too much math is boring and you just wanna hit stuff. :)
Its pretty straightforward tbh, 1d8 Rolls "Higher" More often and 2d4 Rolls "Better on Average"
Both reasons can be explained with math, and the question of "which one is better" is essentially meaningless; its a matter of consistency vs higher potential.
-The reason why 1d8 rolls a higher number more often, is because rolling an 8 on a 1d8 die has a 1/8th chance to roll an 8. But in order to roll an 8 with 2d4, its 1/4th x 1/4th chance, or .25x.25, which becomes 1/16. Thats right, rolling an 8 on a 2d4 is a 1/16th chance, not a 1/8th chance. So you will get an 8 HALF the time when rolling 2d4 compared to a 1d8. This actually gets worse as you roll more dice, or if the dice have higher numbers. So if you roll a 4d8, you will only get your max hit once in every 4,096 rolls (8x8x8x8). Compared to if you rolled a 1d32, which will result in getting a max hit once in every 32 rolls. That's a HUGE difference.
-On the other hand, this same theory applies to Low rolls as well, a 1d8 has a higher chance to roll a low number compared to a 2d4. Furthermore, a 2d4 cant roll below a 2 minimum, compared to a 1d8 that can roll a 1 minimum, and on top of that, the 1d8 will roll a 1 more often than a 2d4 rolls a 2. This means that a 2d4 will roll middle-ground numbers (such as a 4,5, or 6) more often. Hence it has a better "average" and is typically seen as "more consistent."
This is the result: 1d8 is "Higher Risk, Higher Reward," and you will roll the "Reward" more often than a 2d4. 2d4 is "More Consistent" with a better "Middle Average" but rolling really high numbers is much less common.
If you are trying to hit big numbers, or you're trying to "Max Hit," go with a 1d8 If you're trying to have consistent round-by-round damage output, go with 2d4
If our preferences satisfy the expected utility property, and we are risk averse, then an outcome with higher variance carries a utility penalty. Supposing we take a 2d4, for which the range is 2-8, and we took a d8 and carved off the side with one pip (in a way that doesn't skew the die toward any other side), giving it a range of 2-8, then we very well might prefer the 2d4, which has the same expected value and a lower variance if our utility under each possible roll were equal to the value of the roll. Of course the relevant outcome for determining our utility is not the raw die roll, but a potentially complicated random variable with a distribution determined only partly by the distribution of possible die rolls, but also by the target value (such as a required amount of damage).
This is just a mathy way of saying what everybody else is saying.
As Tonio mentioned, you need to define what "Best Result" actually means. If you mean, roll high damage such as a 7 or 8, then roll the 1d8. But you usually don't get to choose between the two. But, if you had a 1d8 weapon and a 2d4 weapon, then you could choose which weapon to use in that instance.
For run of the mill probabilities, most folks will go with the 2d4 because as everyone here knows you will receive an average of 5 damage, and only 4.5 rolling the 1d8.
So what is the breakdown ... ?
1d8 2d4 weighted values sum from the bottom sum from the top
1 0.125 --- 0.125 --- 0.125 --- 4.500 ---
2 0.125 0.063 0.250 0.125 0.375 0.125 4.375 5.000
3 0.125 0.125 0.375 0.375 0.750 0.500 4.125 4.875
4 0.125 0.188 0.500 0.750 1.250 1.250 3.750 4.500
5 0.125 0.250 0.625 1.250 1.875 2.500 3.250 3.750
6 0.125 0.188 0.750 1.125 2.625 3.625 2.625 2.500
7 0.125 0.125 0.875 0.875 3.500 4.500 1.875 1.375
8 0.125 0.063 1.000 0.500 4.500 5.000 1.000 0.500
So there is a great chance you would do better if you needed an eight with 1d8, a good chance if you needed a seven or eight, and a small chance if you needed a six, seven or eight. But for average results over a long time, you're going to crush 1d8 if you choose 2d4 with one half point each time you roll.
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Cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscript catapultas habebunt
Defining "best results" as "max damage", the objective answer to your question is "1d8", which produces max damage 12.5% of the time, while "2d4" produces max damage half as often (6.25% of the time). You probably didn't mean to ask that, though. =)
However, if you define "best results" as "most total damage over the course of a combat," the answer is "2d4."
If you are allowed to reroll 1s and 2s with the fighting style, 2d6 is better than 1d12, right?
You get a better chance of rerolling. D12 has 3-6 that are below avg but no rerorrable. But 2d6, rolling 3 with both is unlucky. But you get reroll with any lower, and any higher is above avg.
If you are allowed to reroll 1s and 2s with the fighting style, 2d6 is better than 1d12, right?
You get a better chance of rerolling. D12 has 3-6 that are below avg but no rerorrable. But 2d6, rolling 3 with both is unlucky. But you get reroll with any lower, and any higher is above avg.
Sounds about right! But just so you know, 2d6 is already better than 1d12, that’s just based off of averages, but it’s also worth taking into consideration that rolling more dice, is more fun…
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I have:
2d6 for the Greatsword
2d6 for the Critical
1d6 for Savage Attacks "When you score a critical hit with a melee weapon attack, you can roll one of the weapon’s damage dice one additional time and add it to the extra damage of the critical hit."
1d6 for Brutal Critical "Beginning at 9th level, you can roll one additional weapon damage die when determining the extra damage for a critical hit with a melee attack."
this is 6d6 damage on a critical.
I've always interpreted these above rules as adding a SINGLE additional weapon damage die. If I am incorrect in that interpretation, please let me know.
Your math is correct Bunny. JC confirmed on Twitter.
.
Yeah i never understood why they even made a D4 to begin with, i hate this dice, it makes me always grunt when i see stuff like healing spells or potions using D4's...
Darn thing costed you a frakin 100gp but you only get 4 or 5 hp on average from it...
"Normality is but an Illusion, Whats normal to the Spider, is only madness for the Fly"
Kain de Frostberg- Dark Knight - (Vengeance Pal3/ Hexblade 9), Port Mourn
Kain de Draakberg-Dark Knight lvl8-Avergreen(DitA)
The d4 was made because D&D's various dice were taken from a geometry class room using the different shapes to showcase different three dimensional shapes. And you got to have a pyramid if we're talking 3d shapes. So, they felt the need to make the d4 a thing.
WIsh they din't, once lost one of those in the room in the dark, steped on it...
NOT GOOD
"Normality is but an Illusion, Whats normal to the Spider, is only madness for the Fly"
Kain de Frostberg- Dark Knight - (Vengeance Pal3/ Hexblade 9), Port Mourn
Kain de Draakberg-Dark Knight lvl8-Avergreen(DitA)
This is the baseball question. Do you like small ball and play the averages? Or do you rely on the homerun ball?
Im a small ball player (no pun intended) and like the slightly higher averages at the expense of fewer big numbers.
We normally use averages in our game* (especially the DM), so 1d8's average (4.5, rounded down to 4), is absolutely worse than 2d4s' (5). Plus, 5's are easy numbers to add up if dealing with dozens of results.
*The deviation from using damage dice isn't really worth the effort, especially at higher levels (i.e. the more dice you roll, the more average the results become anyway). And no, dice don't aid immersion. I normally avoid DM's that spend the group's precious table-time rolling damage dice.
I just got a set of Chessex 12-sided d4 and I'm changing my earlier answer from 1d8 because I'm now back in the 2d4 camp!
"Not all those who wander are lost"
I say the 2 D4, mostly because the minimum damage is higher and i always base my decisions on what is the worst thing that can happen when i roll, because my luck with rolls would be like if a broken mirror crossed paths with a black cat under a ladder and the resulting bad luck accidentally spilled salt while opening an umbrella indoors on friday the 13th.
If you're looking at average damage over the long haul, 2d4 is going to be slightly better than 1d8, from a purely mathematical perspective. But if you're talking about a character build, there are always other factors. I haven't done all the math myself, because I treat D&D like a game and not a statistics essay. But based on what I've seen from folks who have done that kind of math, the differences are small enough that I'm just going to go with what feels right for my character and enjoy. Plus, averaging over a long period of time doesn't seem like it matters all that much, since damage rolls from one battle don't affect the outcome of another battle. So a more useful way to look at it would be to use a sample size based on how many damage rolls you can reasonably expect to make in a battle, calculate the average damage as well as a likely margin of error/variance. And at THAT point, realize that too much math is boring and you just wanna hit stuff. :)
Its pretty straightforward tbh, 1d8 Rolls "Higher" More often and 2d4 Rolls "Better on Average"
Both reasons can be explained with math, and the question of "which one is better" is essentially meaningless; its a matter of consistency vs higher potential.
-The reason why 1d8 rolls a higher number more often, is because rolling an 8 on a 1d8 die has a 1/8th chance to roll an 8. But in order to roll an 8 with 2d4, its 1/4th x 1/4th chance, or .25x.25, which becomes 1/16. Thats right, rolling an 8 on a 2d4 is a 1/16th chance, not a 1/8th chance. So you will get an 8 HALF the time when rolling 2d4 compared to a 1d8.
This actually gets worse as you roll more dice, or if the dice have higher numbers. So if you roll a 4d8, you will only get your max hit once in every 4,096 rolls (8x8x8x8). Compared to if you rolled a 1d32, which will result in getting a max hit once in every 32 rolls. That's a HUGE difference.
-On the other hand, this same theory applies to Low rolls as well, a 1d8 has a higher chance to roll a low number compared to a 2d4. Furthermore, a 2d4 cant roll below a 2 minimum, compared to a 1d8 that can roll a 1 minimum, and on top of that, the 1d8 will roll a 1 more often than a 2d4 rolls a 2. This means that a 2d4 will roll middle-ground numbers (such as a 4,5, or 6) more often. Hence it has a better "average" and is typically seen as "more consistent."
This is the result:
1d8 is "Higher Risk, Higher Reward," and you will roll the "Reward" more often than a 2d4.
2d4 is "More Consistent" with a better "Middle Average" but rolling really high numbers is much less common.
If you are trying to hit big numbers, or you're trying to "Max Hit," go with a 1d8
If you're trying to have consistent round-by-round damage output, go with 2d4
*Nerd hat on*
If our preferences satisfy the expected utility property, and we are risk averse, then an outcome with higher variance carries a utility penalty. Supposing we take a 2d4, for which the range is 2-8, and we took a d8 and carved off the side with one pip (in a way that doesn't skew the die toward any other side), giving it a range of 2-8, then we very well might prefer the 2d4, which has the same expected value and a lower variance if our utility under each possible roll were equal to the value of the roll. Of course the relevant outcome for determining our utility is not the raw die roll, but a potentially complicated random variable with a distribution determined only partly by the distribution of possible die rolls, but also by the target value (such as a required amount of damage).
This is just a mathy way of saying what everybody else is saying.
As Tonio mentioned, you need to define what "Best Result" actually means. If you mean, roll high damage such as a 7 or 8, then roll the 1d8. But you usually don't get to choose between the two. But, if you had a 1d8 weapon and a 2d4 weapon, then you could choose which weapon to use in that instance.
For run of the mill probabilities, most folks will go with the 2d4 because as everyone here knows you will receive an average of 5 damage, and only 4.5 rolling the 1d8.
So what is the breakdown ... ?
1d8 2d4 weighted values sum from the bottom sum from the top
1 0.125 --- 0.125 --- 0.125 --- 4.500 ---
2 0.125 0.063 0.250 0.125 0.375 0.125 4.375 5.000
3 0.125 0.125 0.375 0.375 0.750 0.500 4.125 4.875
4 0.125 0.188 0.500 0.750 1.250 1.250 3.750 4.500
5 0.125 0.250 0.625 1.250 1.875 2.500 3.250 3.750
6 0.125 0.188 0.750 1.125 2.625 3.625 2.625 2.500
7 0.125 0.125 0.875 0.875 3.500 4.500 1.875 1.375
8 0.125 0.063 1.000 0.500 4.500 5.000 1.000 0.500
So there is a great chance you would do better if you needed an eight with 1d8, a good chance if you needed a seven or eight, and a small chance if you needed a six, seven or eight. But for average results over a long time, you're going to crush 1d8 if you choose 2d4 with one half point each time you roll.
Cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscript catapultas habebunt
However, if you define "best results" as "most total damage over the course of a combat," the answer is "2d4."
That’s an every time event with my group. Must crush our foes.
Smart fellas here.
If you are allowed to reroll 1s and 2s with the fighting style, 2d6 is better than 1d12, right?
You get a better chance of rerolling. D12 has 3-6 that are below avg but no rerorrable. But 2d6, rolling 3 with both is unlucky. But you get reroll with any lower, and any higher is above avg.
Finland GMT/UTC +2
Sounds about right! But just so you know, 2d6 is already better than 1d12, that’s just based off of averages, but it’s also worth taking into consideration that rolling more dice, is more fun…