I’ve been trying to build around the concept of grappling an enemy, then dragging and leaving them underground using burrowing speed.
Barring rare magic items (Claws of the Umber Hulk and Delver’s Claws) the only two ways to do this are wild-shape and Sidekick rules Tasha’s. Monk/Pugilist X and Druid 2 works but quickly suffers as you level from lack of proficiency bonus in Wild-shape. Which leaves Sidekicks and I thought of the following:
Giant Space Hamster (lv10 Warrior Sidekick)
AC 19 (Plate)
HP 77 (14d10)
Initiative +2 (advantage)
Str:19 Dex:14 Con:10 Int:10 Wis:12 Cha:4
Speed: 40ft. Burrow 20ft.
Proficiency in all armour, dexterity saving throws and Athletics and Perception skills.
Traits
Improved Critical. Your attack rolls score a critical hit on a roll of 19 or 20 on the d20.
Punch and Grab. When you hit a creature with an Unarmed Strike as part of the Attack action on your turn, you can use both the Damage and the Grapple option. You can use this benefit only once per turn.
Attack Advantage. You have Advantage on attack rolls against a creature Grappled by you.
Fast Wrestler. You don’t have to spend extra movement to move a creature Grappled by you if the creature is your size or smaller.
Dash over Difficult Terrain. When you take the Dash action on your turn, Difficult Terrain doesn't cost you extra movement for the rest of that turn.
Agile Movement. Opportunity Attacks have Disadvantage against you.
Action
Extra Attack. You can attack twice instead of once whenever you take the Attack action on your turn.
Bite: +10 to hit, 2d4+4 piercing damage
Unarmed Strike: +10 to hit, 4 bludgeoning damage.
Grapple (Huge or smaller creature): +10 to hit, the target must succeed on a DC16 Strength or Dexterity saving throw (it chooses which), or it has the Grappled condition.
Bonus Action
Second Wind: 1/short rest regain 1d10+10hp
This is a lv10 sidekick with the Gauntlets of Ogre Power, Plate armour, Grappler and Speedy feats (+2 Dexterity).
Edit: I checked Sage Advice and it won’t work for anything but the Cave Badger! :-(
Can a creature that burrows grapple a target and drag them into the ground by burrowing?
No. A burrowing creature can drag another creature with them only if they have the ability to leave a tunnel. For example, a Purple Worm has the Tunneler trait, so it can drag a Grappled creature into a tunnel it creates when burrowing. Conversely, an Earth Elemental can’t drag a creature into the ground with it.
Underground dragging would be possible while you Wildshape into a Cave Badger, provided you have seen one before.
Aye, I acknowledged that but the amount of work it takes to weaponise tunnels is generally more than a turn even for specialised builds sadly.
Say with Monk 6 Druid 4 build, Mark of Passage and Custom Lineage: Squat Nimbleness, Longstrider and Feats Speedy and Mobile, using BA to dash. We’d have 110ft. of tunnelling each turn… but how do you use that effectively without just being fell on?
In 3.X as far as we could tell, it was legal to move half speed while grappling, so someone built a badger person wrestler.
He was so annoying that we had a boss fight on the second floor of a stone building against ghosts, just so the DM could be all "What now?" and pester him to make a normal character for once.
Burying something a hundred feet down would instakill a lot of monsters.
It might feel cool to have the ability, but aftrr a couple sessions you'd realize most combat is boring
This. Plus, consider hat if you allow players to do this to enemies, you're opening the door to enemies who can do that to players, and that would be no fun.
I would not advise allowing this grapple, burrow, and leave maneuver no mater how much your players want it. Veto it.
Underground dragging would be possible while you Wildshape into a Cave Badger, provided you have seen one before.
... would it though?
As a RAW thing, maybe so. The RAW doesn't say specifically that you need all your shovel-paws to dig, and it also doesn't state that if you're dragging something big through a tunnel shaped specifically to fit your body, you get stuck.
But regardless of RAW, to dig a tunnel, a mole definitely uses all it's limbs to dig and move underground, and even if it had additional hands to hold an enemy, it wouldn't be able to drag it along. It simply wouldn't be possible.
Being able to walk or run does not enable characters to do impossible stuff. So why would digging be different?
Blanket disclaimer: I only ever state opinion. But I can sound terribly dogmatic - so if you feel I'm trying to tell you what to think, I'm really not, I swear. I'm telling you what I think, that's all.
Underground dragging would be possible while you Wildshape into a Cave Badger, provided you have seen one before.
... would it though?
As a RAW thing, maybe so. The RAW doesn't say specifically that you need all your shovel-paws to dig, and it also doesn't state that if you're dragging something big through a tunnel shaped specifically to fit your body, you get stuck.
But regardless of RAW, to dig a tunnel, a mole definitely uses all it's limbs to dig and move underground, and even if it had additional hands to hold an enemy, it wouldn't be able to drag it along. It simply wouldn't be possible.
Being able to walk or run does not enable characters to do impossible stuff. So why would digging be different?
I see your point independant of RAW a DM can shut this down if judging it can't physically do it all. RAW only covers each part individually, such as that it
So Cave Badger may grapple you with its Bite and or one of it's Claws and Burrow through earth with its other limbs, leaving a tunnel behind as it carry you.
I see your point independant of RAW a DM can shut this down if judging it can't physically do it all. RAW only covers each part individually, such as that it
So Cave Badger may grapple you with its Bite and or one of it's Claws and Burrow through earth with its other limbs, leaving a tunnel behind as it carry you.
I agree with you in principle. But I still feel there's a case to be made.
Like. Squeezing, right? There are rules for that. By RAW. If you have to squeeze, you lose some move speed, you have disadvantage. Bla bla. If a space is small enough, you actually can't enter it or move through.
And in those cases, you don't point to your move speed and say that 'well, I have 30' movement, so I can move 30'!'
But when it comes to a burrow speed, that's somehow different? I mean it's not an exact fit, but you move through the earth digging a tunnel that fits your body. Some physical exertion must be expected, earth is much heavier and denser than air.
It's just asking more of my suspension of disbelief to drag someone unwilling through the earth than through the air. I've tried dragging my 5yo through a doorway when he get's a hold of the ... what, the jamb? And it's a struggle. I'm not sure a cave badger can drag anyone anythere through the earth, despite what (I agree) RAW has to say about it.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Blanket disclaimer: I only ever state opinion. But I can sound terribly dogmatic - so if you feel I'm trying to tell you what to think, I'm really not, I swear. I'm telling you what I think, that's all.
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
I’ve been trying to build around the concept of grappling an enemy, then dragging and leaving them underground using burrowing speed.
Barring rare magic items (Claws of the Umber Hulk and Delver’s Claws) the only two ways to do this are wild-shape and Sidekick rules Tasha’s. Monk/Pugilist X and Druid 2 works but quickly suffers as you level from lack of proficiency bonus in Wild-shape. Which leaves Sidekicks and I thought of the following:
Giant Space Hamster (lv10 Warrior Sidekick)
Traits
Improved Critical. Your attack rolls score a critical hit on a roll of 19 or 20 on the d20.
Punch and Grab. When you hit a creature with an Unarmed Strike as part of the Attack action on your turn, you can use both the Damage and the Grapple option. You can use this benefit only once per turn.
Attack Advantage. You have Advantage on attack rolls against a creature Grappled by you.
Fast Wrestler. You don’t have to spend extra movement to move a creature Grappled by you if the creature is your size or smaller.
Dash over Difficult Terrain. When you take the Dash action on your turn, Difficult Terrain doesn't cost you extra movement for the rest of that turn.
Agile Movement. Opportunity Attacks have Disadvantage against you.
Action
Extra Attack. You can attack twice instead of once whenever you take the Attack action on your turn.
Bite: +10 to hit, 2d4+4 piercing damage
Unarmed Strike: +10 to hit, 4 bludgeoning damage.
Grapple (Huge or smaller creature): +10 to hit, the target must succeed on a DC16 Strength or Dexterity saving throw (it chooses which), or it has the Grappled condition.
Bonus Action
Second Wind: 1/short rest regain 1d10+10hp
This is a lv10 sidekick with the Gauntlets of Ogre Power, Plate armour, Grappler and Speedy feats (+2 Dexterity).
Guild Signet (Simic) or Boots of the Winding Path for Bonus Action movement would also be good… As would an Amulet of Health (but that is Rare).
Edit: I checked Sage Advice and it won’t work for anything but the Cave Badger! :-(
Can a creature that burrows grapple a target and drag them into the ground by burrowing?
No. A burrowing creature can drag another creature with them only if they have the ability to leave a tunnel. For example, a Purple Worm has the Tunneler trait, so it can drag a Grappled creature into a tunnel it creates when burrowing. Conversely, an Earth Elemental can’t drag a creature into the ground with it.
Underground dragging would be possible while you Wildshape into a Cave Badger, provided you have seen one before.
Aye, I acknowledged that but the amount of work it takes to weaponise tunnels is generally more than a turn even for specialised builds sadly.
Say with Monk 6 Druid 4 build, Mark of Passage and Custom Lineage: Squat Nimbleness, Longstrider and Feats Speedy and Mobile, using BA to dash. We’d have 110ft. of tunnelling each turn… but how do you use that effectively without just being fell on?
Burying something a hundred feet down would instakill a lot of monsters.
It might feel cool to have the ability, but aftrr a couple sessions you'd realize most combat is boring
In 3.X as far as we could tell, it was legal to move half speed while grappling, so someone built a badger person wrestler.
He was so annoying that we had a boss fight on the second floor of a stone building against ghosts, just so the DM could be all "What now?" and pester him to make a normal character for once.
This. Plus, consider hat if you allow players to do this to enemies, you're opening the door to enemies who can do that to players, and that would be no fun.
I would not advise allowing this grapple, burrow, and leave maneuver no mater how much your players want it. Veto it.
I am confused by an approach that disallows a strategy that is RAW, logical and terrain specific.
Why would you say “no”, rather than “yes, and”?
I grew up playing Dig Dug, there are plenty of ways to be engaging with subterranean strategies.
... would it though?
As a RAW thing, maybe so. The RAW doesn't say specifically that you need all your shovel-paws to dig, and it also doesn't state that if you're dragging something big through a tunnel shaped specifically to fit your body, you get stuck.
But regardless of RAW, to dig a tunnel, a mole definitely uses all it's limbs to dig and move underground, and even if it had additional hands to hold an enemy, it wouldn't be able to drag it along. It simply wouldn't be possible.
Being able to walk or run does not enable characters to do impossible stuff. So why would digging be different?
Blanket disclaimer: I only ever state opinion. But I can sound terribly dogmatic - so if you feel I'm trying to tell you what to think, I'm really not, I swear. I'm telling you what I think, that's all.
I see your point independant of RAW a DM can shut this down if judging it can't physically do it all. RAW only covers each part individually, such as that it
allow a creature to grapple using a tentacle, a maw, or another body part.
The grappler can drag or carry you when it moves
So Cave Badger may grapple you with its Bite and or one of it's Claws and Burrow through earth with its other limbs, leaving a tunnel behind as it carry you.
I agree with you in principle. But I still feel there's a case to be made.
Like. Squeezing, right? There are rules for that. By RAW. If you have to squeeze, you lose some move speed, you have disadvantage. Bla bla. If a space is small enough, you actually can't enter it or move through.
And in those cases, you don't point to your move speed and say that 'well, I have 30' movement, so I can move 30'!'
But when it comes to a burrow speed, that's somehow different? I mean it's not an exact fit, but you move through the earth digging a tunnel that fits your body. Some physical exertion must be expected, earth is much heavier and denser than air.
It's just asking more of my suspension of disbelief to drag someone unwilling through the earth than through the air. I've tried dragging my 5yo through a doorway when he get's a hold of the ... what, the jamb? And it's a struggle. I'm not sure a cave badger can drag anyone anythere through the earth, despite what (I agree) RAW has to say about it.
Blanket disclaimer: I only ever state opinion. But I can sound terribly dogmatic - so if you feel I'm trying to tell you what to think, I'm really not, I swear. I'm telling you what I think, that's all.