I am DMing an adventure soon that I've written myself, and had a quick question about encounter difficulty.
In the encounter before the fight with a big boss (giant spider), I planned to put a party of four level 1 characters up against two giant wolf spiders (CR 1/4) and four giant fire beetles (CR 0 or 10 XP). I had also planned for there to be two more giant wolf spiders in the combat if the party had entered the chamber in a particular manner (fighting their way too noisily through a web obstacle).
My question is, would four giant wolf spiders be too much for a level 1 party? The DM's rules seem to suggest that a group of four monsters would double the XP rating for the encounter, putting it beyond the capability of a lv1 group. I guess I could have the second 'wave' enter the chamber if the party copes with the first easily...
I guess I could have the second 'wave' enter the chamber if the party copes with the first easily...
You nailed your solution. The rules give guidelines for encounters and yes, four wolf-spiders may be too much on paper. But paper does not take into account dice rolls and good party tactics. So run your two wolf spiders to start, have a third show up a couple rounds later and if the PCs are still kicking chitin and chewing bubble gum, bring on the fourth. You want to tenderize the PCs a little to add threat to the giant spider encounter, otherwise you may need two giant spiders!
Before I answer the question you've asked, I'd like to share some things I've learned over the years DMing that seem even more relevant to your current situation:
Trying to set up a "big boss" type of encounter with just one monster requires a significant amount of heavy-handedness on your part if you want it to play out like a big dramatic fight, instead of a brief and almost entirely one-sided curb-stomping. It is actually a lot more reliably doable to have the "boss fight" feeling by setting up an encounter with multiple creatures, and potentially in multiple waves.
Which leads to my second point; the encounter you have planned as the before-the-boss is very likely to end up feeling more like the boss to your players. Not just because, to finally answer the question you actually asked, it is potentially deadly for 1st level characters, but because their will likely be more rounds of combat with more things happening in each round.
Let me share an anecdote to illustrate further: Years ago my group was playing through Expedition to the Ruins of Castle Greyhawk (I think that is the title). Somewhere near the late middle of the adventure, there was an encounter that involved a wizard hiding behind illusions while a handful of summoned demons and a projected image of the wizard battled the party. It was dramatic, engaging, and stands as the best remembered encounter from the entire 9 months we were playing that adventure for all of the players that were involved.
What was meant to be the "boss fight" at the end of the adventure, a stand-off with a single highly potent wizard equipped with a powerful magical staff, was over within the first two rounds, and I can't even remember the details well enough to say more about it than that it was an unsatisfying conclusion in spite of being a complete victory for the characters. When getting versions of the characters from that adventure ready for a sequel campaign, I even had the player of the party's sorcerer ask me "Why did you just gift me that staff?" because she didn't remember the "final boss" having it - and you would think that acquiring your defeated enemy's potent staff would be memorable, right? But it's not if the encounter didn't last long enough for the enemy to memorably bring its power to bear.
My suggestion, if you are open to it, is to stitch these two encounters together. Start out with the fire beetles and 1 or 2 giant wolf spiders. Have some more giant wolf spiders show up after a few rounds (I'd pre-set the number of rounds, so that if the party makes short work of the first wave you know how long they have to recuperate/do other stuff before the next wave - that they should probably be able to tell are coming so they stay in the mindset of urgency/battle), and then have the big boss spider show up another few rounds following that. That will both give your low-level characters better chance of realizing if they are in over their heads and being able to do something about it, and make sure that you don't end up with your "normal" encounter being more fondly remembered by your players than the "boss" encounter.
Thanks both, great advice there. Re the final encounter, I had planned to have the earl's son trapped in the giant spider's web, with a set number of rounds before he dies (either from panic or suffocation) unless the party can free him. I could certainly have the giant spider come in to the combat as the second or third 'wave', and maybe I could have sounds of the child's whimpering echo into the chamber during the battle? Could introduce another layer of jeopardy/time pressure...
EDIT: I'd designed the giant spider to be in the next chamber from the group of wolf spiders, so the players might choose to split the party and have one dash in to investigate the whimpering. Sorry the layout wasn't clear in my original post.
I would definitely play up the time pressure with the whimpering, even before/as the first encounter/wave is beginning. Give the players the sense that they might fail to recover the earl's son alive if they don't put finding and freeing him at equal or higher priority to fighting off the spiders. And having multiple nearby but separate areas that fighting can take place is just as good as using waves, so long as the players actually have their characters travel between them a bit.
That's the kind of thing that leads to awesome game-play memories/stories, assuming the players get that they are on a timer, actually care about the goal at hand, and aren't like one player of mine who I have to very carefully frame things for so that he doesn't do this whole thing where he defeats himself by talking himself out of trying things by focusing on the wrong detail (like, he might focus on that the monsters could just follow his character if he moved, so he would think he's better of just standing still and fighting until the monsters are all dead than he would be if he did something like shove the monster near him prone and move towards actually saving the earl's son).
Hi all
I am DMing an adventure soon that I've written myself, and had a quick question about encounter difficulty.
In the encounter before the fight with a big boss (giant spider), I planned to put a party of four level 1 characters up against two giant wolf spiders (CR 1/4) and four giant fire beetles (CR 0 or 10 XP). I had also planned for there to be two more giant wolf spiders in the combat if the party had entered the chamber in a particular manner (fighting their way too noisily through a web obstacle).
My question is, would four giant wolf spiders be too much for a level 1 party? The DM's rules seem to suggest that a group of four monsters would double the XP rating for the encounter, putting it beyond the capability of a lv1 group. I guess I could have the second 'wave' enter the chamber if the party copes with the first easily...
Thoughts welcome!
We all leave footprints in the sands of time.
Before I answer the question you've asked, I'd like to share some things I've learned over the years DMing that seem even more relevant to your current situation:
Trying to set up a "big boss" type of encounter with just one monster requires a significant amount of heavy-handedness on your part if you want it to play out like a big dramatic fight, instead of a brief and almost entirely one-sided curb-stomping. It is actually a lot more reliably doable to have the "boss fight" feeling by setting up an encounter with multiple creatures, and potentially in multiple waves.
Which leads to my second point; the encounter you have planned as the before-the-boss is very likely to end up feeling more like the boss to your players. Not just because, to finally answer the question you actually asked, it is potentially deadly for 1st level characters, but because their will likely be more rounds of combat with more things happening in each round.
Let me share an anecdote to illustrate further: Years ago my group was playing through Expedition to the Ruins of Castle Greyhawk (I think that is the title). Somewhere near the late middle of the adventure, there was an encounter that involved a wizard hiding behind illusions while a handful of summoned demons and a projected image of the wizard battled the party. It was dramatic, engaging, and stands as the best remembered encounter from the entire 9 months we were playing that adventure for all of the players that were involved.
What was meant to be the "boss fight" at the end of the adventure, a stand-off with a single highly potent wizard equipped with a powerful magical staff, was over within the first two rounds, and I can't even remember the details well enough to say more about it than that it was an unsatisfying conclusion in spite of being a complete victory for the characters. When getting versions of the characters from that adventure ready for a sequel campaign, I even had the player of the party's sorcerer ask me "Why did you just gift me that staff?" because she didn't remember the "final boss" having it - and you would think that acquiring your defeated enemy's potent staff would be memorable, right? But it's not if the encounter didn't last long enough for the enemy to memorably bring its power to bear.
My suggestion, if you are open to it, is to stitch these two encounters together. Start out with the fire beetles and 1 or 2 giant wolf spiders. Have some more giant wolf spiders show up after a few rounds (I'd pre-set the number of rounds, so that if the party makes short work of the first wave you know how long they have to recuperate/do other stuff before the next wave - that they should probably be able to tell are coming so they stay in the mindset of urgency/battle), and then have the big boss spider show up another few rounds following that. That will both give your low-level characters better chance of realizing if they are in over their heads and being able to do something about it, and make sure that you don't end up with your "normal" encounter being more fondly remembered by your players than the "boss" encounter.
Thanks both, great advice there. Re the final encounter, I had planned to have the earl's son trapped in the giant spider's web, with a set number of rounds before he dies (either from panic or suffocation) unless the party can free him. I could certainly have the giant spider come in to the combat as the second or third 'wave', and maybe I could have sounds of the child's whimpering echo into the chamber during the battle? Could introduce another layer of jeopardy/time pressure...
EDIT: I'd designed the giant spider to be in the next chamber from the group of wolf spiders, so the players might choose to split the party and have one dash in to investigate the whimpering. Sorry the layout wasn't clear in my original post.
I would definitely play up the time pressure with the whimpering, even before/as the first encounter/wave is beginning. Give the players the sense that they might fail to recover the earl's son alive if they don't put finding and freeing him at equal or higher priority to fighting off the spiders. And having multiple nearby but separate areas that fighting can take place is just as good as using waves, so long as the players actually have their characters travel between them a bit.
That's the kind of thing that leads to awesome game-play memories/stories, assuming the players get that they are on a timer, actually care about the goal at hand, and aren't like one player of mine who I have to very carefully frame things for so that he doesn't do this whole thing where he defeats himself by talking himself out of trying things by focusing on the wrong detail (like, he might focus on that the monsters could just follow his character if he moved, so he would think he's better of just standing still and fighting until the monsters are all dead than he would be if he did something like shove the monster near him prone and move towards actually saving the earl's son).
Awesome, thanks. This forum is full of people with loads of experience who are willing to give the fruit of their experience.