I wanted to post here on the forums to ask for some advice.
i am new to D&D but have played Pathfinder for a couple of years now. I am about to go into my first D&D campaign, and I just received some news from our DM that distresses me!
I guess his story was supposed to have two sides—one with a party coming from a strictly non-magic community. And the other being a party that comes from a community that accepts magic. Originally, we were supposed to do the non-magic playthrough. But then more recently, he changed his mind and said he will be having us do the magic one instead. Exciting!
Most of our party, however, decided to keep their original classes, so we had no magic class party member. Additionally, we had no rogue. So I decided to make a bard to try and fill in the blanks! DM said it was fine and that would be a good fit.
Then just today, he was talking to the party members and said that the campaign would be “extremely punishing” to magic classes. Additionally, he mentioned stealth would be very important. If I had known that earlier, maybe I would have just made a rogue :(
Luckily since I’m trying to kind of be a rogue and bard rolled into one, I have a fair stealth score. However, what is casting like when you’re trying to be stealthy? Are there spells you can cast without breaking stealth?
Additionally, do ALL bard spells have to include playing your instrument/performing to be cast? Or is the instrument more for flavor?
sorry I know these are probably kind of dumb questions! But I figured the forum has the widest and most experienced council of answers, so I thought it couldn’t hurt to ask. Thanks for your help!
I played a spell caster in a campaign like that once and it was a ton of fun! There were two of us who were spell casters and we had to be careful about not casting spells in towns or cities, but that added to the role playing aspect!
That’s good to know! Yeah I kind of think he must have meant it roleplaying wise. Which is okay with me because I’ll have nice persuasion scores and things to help me be sneaky and get through it!
i just don’t know what it will look like mechanics wise if I want to be sneaky and cast too. 🤔
Stealth doesn't "break" in D&D, but rather you can be noticed if you're trying to sneak around. Just be conscious of your spells and their components. Spells in D&D have various components that are required for their casting: Verbal, Somatic, and Material.
Verbal components are the magical words and chants that some spells need the caster to recite in order for the spell to work. The rules don't say how loud they have to be, but many people rule that it must be incanted at conversational level, which can get you noticed if someone hears you. If people recognize magical incantations, they might single you out as a mage of some sort unless perhaps you roll well on a Deception roll to convince them you were speaking a foreign language or something.
Somatic components are the mystical gestures that some spells require you to make in order for the spell to work. The rules say they require you to have one hand free, so they are elaborate enough that they cannot be done while holding anything in that hand, with one exception that I will clarify later. Their elaborateness means that they probably cannot be done with that hand in your pocket or otherwise hidden underneath your clothes, so they might be noticed by someone watching you and again you might be recognized as a caster. Perhaps, if your DM allows it, a Sleight of Hand check could be made to hide your gesture behind your back or under a table.
Material components are focus items or esoteric reagents that some spells need in order to be cast. Each spell that requires material components will mention what they are. Many times a bard can use their musical instrument as a focus item instead of having a reagent on hand. Either way, casting a spell that requires a material component means the caster has to have one hand free to interact with the component. In the case of a spell that has both a material and a somatic component, the caster can use the hand holding the material component to also gesture the somatic component. Using a wand or a crystal orb to cast a spell might get you recognized as a magic user, but perhaps if you are a clever enough bard, you can disguise your casting as simply part of your performance.
that makes a lot of sense! I just have to make sure I pay attention to what type of components I need to cast the spell and then decide from there if the situation is comfortable to cast it.
Feeling a lot more comfortable with playing bard now. Thank you for your help!
You don't have to use your instrument for your spells. In point of fact, a "bard" can go an entire campaign without touching their instrument if they so choose. A bard CAN substitute their instrument, theoretically by playing it, for the material components of a spell that requires material components, the same as any other caster using a focus item. Oddly, a spell that does not require material components actually cannot be used by a bard two-fisting their instrument, but that's a bit of RAW that makes no bloody sense and so is sometimes skipped.
As for spellcasting being 'extremely punishing', I would anticipate that means that the general populace is not going to be kind to spellcasters. Fortunately for you, bards are far and away the most martially capable full-caster class (exempting certain warlock builds, don't give me guff Bladelocks). Especially since you seem to be going dexy for Stealth and rogue-esque stuff, you could carry a rapier and/or a shortbow to fight with in situations where your spells are a no-go, as well as having access to light armor. If you take either Valor or Swords as your Bardic College, you get a second attack at level 6 that keeps you martially relevant even into the midgame. Valor is great for mixing blade and bow since it gives you full martial weapons proficiency, allowing the longbow, while Swords is designed specifically for duelist-y rapier-wielding melee bards.
Even College of Lore could potentially work with a light crossbow; your damage wouldn't be amazing, but you'd be away from the fighting and have at least some means of contributing. You could also allay suspicious townsfolk by pointing at the weapon and saying "see? I'm not a spellcaster - why would I carry this heavy, bulky thing to protect myself with if I could throw fire instead?"
What everyone else has said so far is great advice!
I will add that as the Bard, you are likely going to have a great Charisma! I mean, you should because its your most important stat. Additionally, you get expertise which allows you to basically have a few "super skills" that boost your ability with those skills so much that you pretty much can't fail them! Unless you roll a nat 1 of course.
Choosing Stealth and Persuasion would be a great idea since you can use stealth for stealthily casting spells. Combing that with the above advice about using a Lute to do it, etc, is going to make it nigh impossible for a normal NPC to accuse you have magic. Persuasion is another great pick because you can use that encase the stealth check fails to talk your way out of it.
It's going to make it extremely difficult to get caught using magic and should lessen the punishment to almost 0. That is unless the DM decides to hardcore meta game you, but that would just be rude and unfair!
Another thing to keep in mind is that the differences in class are largely mechanical... at no point does playing a Bard strictly require you to be a musician or other performer. You get a lot of bonuses that help such a thing, and a few non-combat abilities include music of some kind as a mechanic (such as Song of Rest), but you can play as a bard who dresses, acts, and uses similar abilities to what is usually considered for a Rogue. You can play a Barbarian who's actually a well-dressed, foppish dandy who simply taps into some inner force to deal more damage and shrug off attacks you wouldn't expect.
You don't have to use your instrument for your spells. In point of fact, a "bard" can go an entire campaign without touching their instrument if they so choose. A bard CAN substitute their instrument, theoretically by playing it, for the material components of a spell that requires material components, the same as any other caster using a focus item. Oddly, a spell that does not require material components actually cannot be used by a bard two-fisting their instrument, but that's a bit of RAW that makes no bloody sense and so is sometimes skipped.
As for spellcasting being 'extremely punishing', I would anticipate that means that the general populace is not going to be kind to spellcasters. Fortunately for you, bards are far and away the most martially capable full-caster class (exempting certain warlock builds, don't give me guff Bladelocks). Especially since you seem to be going dexy for Stealth and rogue-esque stuff, you could carry a rapier and/or a shortbow to fight with in situations where your spells are a no-go, as well as having access to light armor. If you take either Valor or Swords as your Bardic College, you get a second attack at level 6 that keeps you martially relevant even into the midgame. Valor is great for mixing blade and bow since it gives you full martial weapons proficiency, allowing the longbow, while Swords is designed specifically for duelist-y rapier-wielding melee bards.
Even College of Lore could potentially work with a light crossbow; your damage wouldn't be amazing, but you'd be away from the fighting and have at least some means of contributing. You could also allay suspicious townsfolk by pointing at the weapon and saying "see? I'm not a spellcaster - why would I carry this heavy, bulky thing to protect myself with if I could throw fire instead?"
Thats really great advice! Ironically, when I statted her, I ended up going with the light crossbow and was planning on doing college of Lore! I also grabbed a rapier just in case. But that’s some good knowledge about Valor to know in case the longbow ends up being a better fit!
Also that is super useful to know about bards and their instruments. I knew the instrument was important, but I couldn’t quite tell how much the bard had to rely on the instrument while casting. Subbing the instrument for the material components can be super useful! But it’s good to know I don’t ALWAYS have to do it if I’m in an area where I don’t want to play music and attract extra attention.
Thank you for such a detailed and helpful response!!!
What everyone else has said so far is great advice!
I will add that as the Bard, you are likely going to have a great Charisma! I mean, you should because its your most important stat. Additionally, you get expertise which allows you to basically have a few "super skills" that boost your ability with those skills so much that you pretty much can't fail them! Unless you roll a nat 1 of course.
Choosing Stealth and Persuasion would be a great idea since you can use stealth for stealthily casting spells. Combing that with the above advice about using a Lute to do it, etc, is going to make it nigh impossible for a normal NPC to accuse you have magic. Persuasion is another great pick because you can use that encase the stealth check fails to talk your way out of it.
It's going to make it extremely difficult to get caught using magic and should lessen the punishment to almost 0. That is unless the DM decides to hardcore meta game you, but that would just be rude and unfair!
Sweet! That’s really good advice! Yes, luckily, I did roll one 18 when I was rolling my stats for her, and I put that one in my Charisma. And I went with half elf too which means her charisma is maxed! (Actually, in D&D can scores go past 20? In pathfinder, they can, but that gets kinda crazy and I’m not sure if D&D would want to allow for such a thing.) I think after that, I made sure she had good dexterity, and I think her WIS and CON were just okay. Strength I think is like a 10 haha
but that is all great to know! I made sure to grab proficiency in those skills when I was going through everything. But it will be nice to have super skills once I grab expertise and then I can be a super skill junky!! And it will be harder to catch me in areas where magic isn’t allowed.
Another thing to keep in mind is that the differences in class are largely mechanical... at no point does playing a Bard strictly require you to be a musician or other performer. You get a lot of bonuses that help such a thing, and a few non-combat abilities include music of some kind as a mechanic (such as Song of Rest), but you can play as a bard who dresses, acts, and uses similar abilities to what is usually considered for a Rogue. You can play a Barbarian who's actually a well-dressed, foppish dandy who simply taps into some inner force to deal more damage and shrug off attacks you wouldn't expect.
That bit about the barbarian HAHA.
Thats super useful to know! I had always known bards could be a great jack of all trades, so I feel like they can blend really nicely into just about any other class that you want. Luckily since D&D has backgrounds (which pathfinder does not have!), I can be a bard and still be proficient in thieves tools or a disguise kit thanks to my background! Grabbing stuff from urchin and from charlatan really helped me fill in some of the blanks for making my bard more rogue-like, and that was a huge help.
Its great to know though that I don’t have to rely too heavily on the instrument and musical part of my character. That way I can be a sneaky bard and not have to worry about playing my instrument all the time and becoming... less sneaky.
——————————
Overall, just wanted to say thank you for all the responses I got! Feeling a lot more confident in my ability to be a sneaky bard and I have a lot of great ideas now thanks to all of you! Thank you for all the thought out responses and help!
one of the things about bards that is disappointing from previous editions is that you just have a flat performance skill. this causes most people to automatically think of instruments and the traditional tropey bard. I favor a more oratory bard, who's performance is perhaps a brief monologue, or even jokes, limericks, or riddles. Sure you would need to figure out what your focus item is in this case, but it's a great chance to collaborate with the DM to create something different.
one of the things about bards that is disappointing from previous editions is that you just have a flat performance skill. this causes most people to automatically think of instruments and the traditional tropey bard. I favor a more oratory bard, who's performance is perhaps a brief monologue, or even jokes, limericks, or riddles. Sure you would need to figure out what your focus item is in this case, but it's a great chance to collaborate with the DM to create something different.
Shout out to all my fellow bards who try to convince the DM to let them use Performance in replacement for things like Deception, Dexterity Checks, or Persuasion
I am playing a bard in a futuristic setting. We went to an arena for our goliath barbarian to fight. Some of the Bard spells only require vocal components so we blended in with the crowd and yelled at the enemy or at our guy casting cutting words, vicious mockery, bardic inspiration, and dissonant whispers. You may want to look into spells like that. Also you can pick up expertise in stealth/slight of hand in order to things easier. I have about 5 or 6 skills at +10 or higher. everything else ranges from +3 to +9.
Typically speaking, you cannot raise your stats above 20. You can't do it with your ASI's or via Feats, and most items that boost stats will say something like "This item puts your *Stat* to 19, if it's not already higher." Only a handful actually give a direct boost, and most of them also don't allow you to go above 20. There is a few odd items like the Belt of Giant Strength that can put your stats up above 20.
That said, there's very rare items for each stat - like the Tome of Understanding or Manual of Bodily Health - that increase both your current and maximum scores in a stat by 2, which would allow you to go over 20 in said stat.
Your DM may also choose to bestow a blessing upon you, which can allow stats to go over 20.
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Hello friends!
I wanted to post here on the forums to ask for some advice.
i am new to D&D but have played Pathfinder for a couple of years now. I am about to go into my first D&D campaign, and I just received some news from our DM that distresses me!
I guess his story was supposed to have two sides—one with a party coming from a strictly non-magic community. And the other being a party that comes from a community that accepts magic. Originally, we were supposed to do the non-magic playthrough. But then more recently, he changed his mind and said he will be having us do the magic one instead. Exciting!
Most of our party, however, decided to keep their original classes, so we had no magic class party member. Additionally, we had no rogue. So I decided to make a bard to try and fill in the blanks! DM said it was fine and that would be a good fit.
Then just today, he was talking to the party members and said that the campaign would be “extremely punishing” to magic classes. Additionally, he mentioned stealth would be very important. If I had known that earlier, maybe I would have just made a rogue :(
Luckily since I’m trying to kind of be a rogue and bard rolled into one, I have a fair stealth score. However, what is casting like when you’re trying to be stealthy? Are there spells you can cast without breaking stealth?
Additionally, do ALL bard spells have to include playing your instrument/performing to be cast? Or is the instrument more for flavor?
sorry I know these are probably kind of dumb questions! But I figured the forum has the widest and most experienced council of answers, so I thought it couldn’t hurt to ask. Thanks for your help!
I played a spell caster in a campaign like that once and it was a ton of fun! There were two of us who were spell casters and we had to be careful about not casting spells in towns or cities, but that added to the role playing aspect!
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That’s good to know! Yeah I kind of think he must have meant it roleplaying wise. Which is okay with me because I’ll have nice persuasion scores and things to help me be sneaky and get through it!
i just don’t know what it will look like mechanics wise if I want to be sneaky and cast too. 🤔
Stealth doesn't "break" in D&D, but rather you can be noticed if you're trying to sneak around. Just be conscious of your spells and their components. Spells in D&D have various components that are required for their casting: Verbal, Somatic, and Material.
Verbal components are the magical words and chants that some spells need the caster to recite in order for the spell to work. The rules don't say how loud they have to be, but many people rule that it must be incanted at conversational level, which can get you noticed if someone hears you. If people recognize magical incantations, they might single you out as a mage of some sort unless perhaps you roll well on a Deception roll to convince them you were speaking a foreign language or something.
Somatic components are the mystical gestures that some spells require you to make in order for the spell to work. The rules say they require you to have one hand free, so they are elaborate enough that they cannot be done while holding anything in that hand, with one exception that I will clarify later. Their elaborateness means that they probably cannot be done with that hand in your pocket or otherwise hidden underneath your clothes, so they might be noticed by someone watching you and again you might be recognized as a caster. Perhaps, if your DM allows it, a Sleight of Hand check could be made to hide your gesture behind your back or under a table.
Material components are focus items or esoteric reagents that some spells need in order to be cast. Each spell that requires material components will mention what they are. Many times a bard can use their musical instrument as a focus item instead of having a reagent on hand. Either way, casting a spell that requires a material component means the caster has to have one hand free to interact with the component. In the case of a spell that has both a material and a somatic component, the caster can use the hand holding the material component to also gesture the somatic component. Using a wand or a crystal orb to cast a spell might get you recognized as a magic user, but perhaps if you are a clever enough bard, you can disguise your casting as simply part of your performance.
Canto alla vita
alla sua bellezza
ad ogni sua ferita
ogni sua carezza!
I sing to life and to its tragic beauty
To pain and to strife, but all that dances through me
The rise and the fall, I've lived through it all!
Thank you for such a detailed response!!
that makes a lot of sense! I just have to make sure I pay attention to what type of components I need to cast the spell and then decide from there if the situation is comfortable to cast it.
Feeling a lot more comfortable with playing bard now. Thank you for your help!
As a note, since it wasn't answered directly.
You don't have to use your instrument for your spells. In point of fact, a "bard" can go an entire campaign without touching their instrument if they so choose. A bard CAN substitute their instrument, theoretically by playing it, for the material components of a spell that requires material components, the same as any other caster using a focus item. Oddly, a spell that does not require material components actually cannot be used by a bard two-fisting their instrument, but that's a bit of RAW that makes no bloody sense and so is sometimes skipped.
As for spellcasting being 'extremely punishing', I would anticipate that means that the general populace is not going to be kind to spellcasters. Fortunately for you, bards are far and away the most martially capable full-caster class (exempting certain warlock builds, don't give me guff Bladelocks). Especially since you seem to be going dexy for Stealth and rogue-esque stuff, you could carry a rapier and/or a shortbow to fight with in situations where your spells are a no-go, as well as having access to light armor. If you take either Valor or Swords as your Bardic College, you get a second attack at level 6 that keeps you martially relevant even into the midgame. Valor is great for mixing blade and bow since it gives you full martial weapons proficiency, allowing the longbow, while Swords is designed specifically for duelist-y rapier-wielding melee bards.
Even College of Lore could potentially work with a light crossbow; your damage wouldn't be amazing, but you'd be away from the fighting and have at least some means of contributing. You could also allay suspicious townsfolk by pointing at the weapon and saying "see? I'm not a spellcaster - why would I carry this heavy, bulky thing to protect myself with if I could throw fire instead?"
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What everyone else has said so far is great advice!
I will add that as the Bard, you are likely going to have a great Charisma! I mean, you should because its your most important stat. Additionally, you get expertise which allows you to basically have a few "super skills" that boost your ability with those skills so much that you pretty much can't fail them! Unless you roll a nat 1 of course.
Choosing Stealth and Persuasion would be a great idea since you can use stealth for stealthily casting spells. Combing that with the above advice about using a Lute to do it, etc, is going to make it nigh impossible for a normal NPC to accuse you have magic. Persuasion is another great pick because you can use that encase the stealth check fails to talk your way out of it.
It's going to make it extremely difficult to get caught using magic and should lessen the punishment to almost 0. That is unless the DM decides to hardcore meta game you, but that would just be rude and unfair!
Another thing to keep in mind is that the differences in class are largely mechanical... at no point does playing a Bard strictly require you to be a musician or other performer. You get a lot of bonuses that help such a thing, and a few non-combat abilities include music of some kind as a mechanic (such as Song of Rest), but you can play as a bard who dresses, acts, and uses similar abilities to what is usually considered for a Rogue. You can play a Barbarian who's actually a well-dressed, foppish dandy who simply taps into some inner force to deal more damage and shrug off attacks you wouldn't expect.
Watch Crits for Breakfast, an adults-only RP-Heavy Roll20 Livestream at twitch.tv/afterdisbooty
And now you too can play with the amazing art and assets we use in Roll20 for our campaign at Hazel's Emporium
Thats really great advice! Ironically, when I statted her, I ended up going with the light crossbow and was planning on doing college of Lore! I also grabbed a rapier just in case. But that’s some good knowledge about Valor to know in case the longbow ends up being a better fit!
Also that is super useful to know about bards and their instruments. I knew the instrument was important, but I couldn’t quite tell how much the bard had to rely on the instrument while casting. Subbing the instrument for the material components can be super useful! But it’s good to know I don’t ALWAYS have to do it if I’m in an area where I don’t want to play music and attract extra attention.
Thank you for such a detailed and helpful response!!!
Sweet! That’s really good advice! Yes, luckily, I did roll one 18 when I was rolling my stats for her, and I put that one in my Charisma. And I went with half elf too which means her charisma is maxed! (Actually, in D&D can scores go past 20? In pathfinder, they can, but that gets kinda crazy and I’m not sure if D&D would want to allow for such a thing.) I think after that, I made sure she had good dexterity, and I think her WIS and CON were just okay. Strength I think is like a 10 haha
but that is all great to know! I made sure to grab proficiency in those skills when I was going through everything. But it will be nice to have super skills once I grab expertise and then I can be a super skill junky!! And it will be harder to catch me in areas where magic isn’t allowed.
Thank you for your help!!
That bit about the barbarian HAHA.
Thats super useful to know! I had always known bards could be a great jack of all trades, so I feel like they can blend really nicely into just about any other class that you want. Luckily since D&D has backgrounds (which pathfinder does not have!), I can be a bard and still be proficient in thieves tools or a disguise kit thanks to my background! Grabbing stuff from urchin and from charlatan really helped me fill in some of the blanks for making my bard more rogue-like, and that was a huge help.
Its great to know though that I don’t have to rely too heavily on the instrument and musical part of my character. That way I can be a sneaky bard and not have to worry about playing my instrument all the time and becoming... less sneaky.
——————————
Overall, just wanted to say thank you for all the responses I got! Feeling a lot more confident in my ability to be a sneaky bard and I have a lot of great ideas now thanks to all of you! Thank you for all the thought out responses and help!
one of the things about bards that is disappointing from previous editions is that you just have a flat performance skill. this causes most people to automatically think of instruments and the traditional tropey bard. I favor a more oratory bard, who's performance is perhaps a brief monologue, or even jokes, limericks, or riddles. Sure you would need to figure out what your focus item is in this case, but it's a great chance to collaborate with the DM to create something different.
Shout out to all my fellow bards who try to convince the DM to let them use Performance in replacement for things like Deception, Dexterity Checks, or Persuasion
Watch Crits for Breakfast, an adults-only RP-Heavy Roll20 Livestream at twitch.tv/afterdisbooty
And now you too can play with the amazing art and assets we use in Roll20 for our campaign at Hazel's Emporium
I am playing a bard in a futuristic setting. We went to an arena for our goliath barbarian to fight. Some of the Bard spells only require vocal components so we blended in with the crowd and yelled at the enemy or at our guy casting cutting words, vicious mockery, bardic inspiration, and dissonant whispers. You may want to look into spells like that. Also you can pick up expertise in stealth/slight of hand in order to things easier. I have about 5 or 6 skills at +10 or higher. everything else ranges from +3 to +9.
You asked and I don't think it's been answered:
Typically speaking, you cannot raise your stats above 20. You can't do it with your ASI's or via Feats, and most items that boost stats will say something like "This item puts your *Stat* to 19, if it's not already higher." Only a handful actually give a direct boost, and most of them also don't allow you to go above 20. There is a few odd items like the Belt of Giant Strength that can put your stats up above 20.
That said, there's very rare items for each stat - like the Tome of Understanding or Manual of Bodily Health - that increase both your current and maximum scores in a stat by 2, which would allow you to go over 20 in said stat.
Your DM may also choose to bestow a blessing upon you, which can allow stats to go over 20.