I'm playing a Horizon Walker right now who uses a Dueling Fighting Style and a shortsword. I also do have a bow for when I need to hit something at range, but I am primarily a front liner. It is very much viable.
I'm playing a Horizon Walker right now who uses a Dueling Fighting Style and a shortsword. I also do have a bow for when I need to hit something at range, but I am primarily a front liner. It is very much viable.
Presume you're using Duelling instead of Two-Weapon Fighting because you use your bonus action for other stuff more often than not?
I'm playing a monk/ranger in our current game who is melee-based; currently I have only two levels in ranger, so I haven't picked an archetype yet, but I plan to go with Horizon Walker. I picked the Duelist fighting style to get that boost to damage with my short sword will still allowing me to have a free hand for my Martial Arts/Flurry of Blows bonus attacks. He's been a pretty effective combatant so far!
Hunter might be a better archetype because the horizon walkers ability uses a bonus action so it would clash with the monk's flurry of blows and extra attacks, which also require bonus actions.
Horizon walkers (and monster hunters) aren't the best for duel-wielders because of the bonus action ability, same with gloomstalker at the first round of combat.
I think melee rangers are actually better than ranged rangers
The problem with pure melee Rangers is that they have no concentration buffs whatsoever and are already a MAD class. Getting higher than a +2 to CON is difficult when you also have to raise your DEX and WIS. For comparison, Paladins get a boost at level 6 due to their aura ability and get more spell slots than Rangers by maxing CHA. Having no cantrips, Rangers only slightly benefit from the Warcaster feat. This means that multi-classing with Fighter from the beginning or spending a feat on Resilient (CON) is something you need to plan for ahead of time.
I think melee rangers are actually better than ranged rangers
The problem with pure melee Rangers is that they have no concentration buffs whatsoever and are already a MAD class. Getting higher than a +2 to CON is difficult when you also have to raise your DEX and WIS. For comparison, Paladins get a boost at level 6 due to their aura ability and get more spell slots than Rangers by maxing CHA. Having no cantrips, Rangers only slightly benefit from the Warcaster feat. This means that multi-classing with Fighter from the beginning or spending a feat on Resilient (CON) is something you need to plan for ahead of time.
You don't actually need Wisdom for any of the base abilities except Foe Slayer (Level 20 capstone). Favored Enemy and Natural Explorer actually give you advantage for Wisdom abilities or double proficiency bonus for them to limit your need for them. If you aren't planning on hitting 20, you can safely place Wisdom at a middle level at creation and then ignore it if you choose.
Paladins get exactly the same number of spell slots as Rangers (both half casters). I'm guessing that you mean the number of spells known (Rangers) maxing at 11 and Spells Prepared (Paladin) maxing at 15 (Charisma modifier + half Paladin level, rounded down-max of 5+10). In practice, that difference isn't going to be that large since a Paladin doesn't focus on maxing out their Charisma for most builds. Either can make sure by focusing on spells that don't require a spell attack or spell save.
Basically, Rangers don't have to be MAD, but certain builds can go that way.
The problem with pure melee Rangers is that they have no concentration buffs whatsoever and are already a MAD class. Getting higher than a +2 to CON is difficult when you also have to raise your DEX and WIS. For comparison, Paladins get a boost at level 6 due to their aura ability and get more spell slots than Rangers by maxing CHA. Having no cantrips, Rangers only slightly benefit from the Warcaster feat. This means that multi-classing with Fighter from the beginning or spending a feat on Resilient (CON) is something you need to plan for ahead of time.
You don't actually need Wisdom for any of the base abilities except Foe Slayer (Level 20 capstone). Favored Enemy and Natural Explorer actually give you advantage for Wisdom abilities or double proficiency bonus for them to limit your need for them. If you aren't planning on hitting 20, you can safely place Wisdom at a middle level at creation and then ignore it if you choose.
Paladins get exactly the same number of spell slots as Rangers (both half casters). I'm guessing that you mean the number of spells known (Rangers) maxing at 11 and Spells Prepared (Paladin) maxing at 15 (Charisma modifier + half Paladin level, rounded down-max of 5+10). In practice, that difference isn't going to be that large since a Paladin doesn't focus on maxing out their Charisma for most builds. Either can make sure by focusing on spells that don't require a spell attack or spell save.
Basically, Rangers don't have to be MAD, but certain builds can go that way.
Yes, sorry spells known, not actual spell slots. Nevertheless, there is no lore/rules explanation about why Rangers have fewer spells known than Paladins' spells prepared when their respective spellcasting modifier stats are equal.
The problem with pure melee Rangers is that they have no concentration buffs whatsoever and are already a MAD class. Getting higher than a +2 to CON is difficult when you also have to raise your DEX and WIS. For comparison, Paladins get a boost at level 6 due to their aura ability and get more spell slots than Rangers by maxing CHA. Having no cantrips, Rangers only slightly benefit from the Warcaster feat. This means that multi-classing with Fighter from the beginning or spending a feat on Resilient (CON) is something you need to plan for ahead of time.
You don't actually need Wisdom for any of the base abilities except Foe Slayer (Level 20 capstone). Favored Enemy and Natural Explorer actually give you advantage for Wisdom abilities or double proficiency bonus for them to limit your need for them. If you aren't planning on hitting 20, you can safely place Wisdom at a middle level at creation and then ignore it if you choose.
Paladins get exactly the same number of spell slots as Rangers (both half casters). I'm guessing that you mean the number of spells known (Rangers) maxing at 11 and Spells Prepared (Paladin) maxing at 15 (Charisma modifier + half Paladin level, rounded down-max of 5+10). In practice, that difference isn't going to be that large since a Paladin doesn't focus on maxing out their Charisma for most builds. Either can make sure by focusing on spells that don't require a spell attack or spell save.
Basically, Rangers don't have to be MAD, but certain builds can go that way.
The 2X profic bonus to Wisdom only applies tracking Favored Enemies for one and while the Ranger is making a check related to their Favored Terrain for the other. It therefore often does not apply to Perception and Insight checks unless your character is playing in a campaign favoring your PC's choice of Favored Enemy or Favored Terrain. Perception is essential for frontline Rangers and that's what we're discussing here. If you're playing a Gloomstalker, you'd better be investing in WIS for Perception if you don't want your PC to get jumped by monsters all the time.
The 2X profic bonus to Wisdom only applies tracking Favored Enemies for one and while the Ranger is making a check related to their Favored Terrain for the other. It therefore often does not apply to Perception and Insight checks unless your character is playing in a campaign favoring your PC's choice of Favored Enemy or Favored Terrain. Perception is essential for frontline Rangers and that's what we're discussing here. If you're playing a Gloomstalker, you'd better be investing in WIS for Perception if you don't want your PC to get jumped by monsters all the time.
Also: concentration spells.
I'm not factoring skills into how MAD a class is simply because there isn't anything about the class that requires skills to be used as part of the class. Getting the +1 or +2 from a beginning 12, 13, or 14 and adding proficiency bonus will usually suffice but I won't begrudge someone from wanting more. Typically, if I want to be good at skills, I'll naturally add make those abilities higher, regardless of the class. Thus if I wanted to fill the scout role as a barbarian, fighter, ranger, druid, rogue or whatever, I'll put at least the 12 into wisdom (and I rarely put an 8 in wisdom anyway unless it's fitting a particular character build). Someone who is wanting to roll a melee ranger may not wish to specialize in scouting, which is another reason why I'm not including it. A strength based ranger would want a 14 in dex to maximize AC and a dex based would have no problems in that regard. Melee damage and a high AC are what I would consider important for a melee character, followed by at least moderate Con for HP. Having some mental save defenses is also good and this is where wisdom becomes more important. A Paladin gets bonuses there, however, any character within 10 ft (or 30 ft at higher levels) of a paladin also gets those bonuses. Therefore, that might not be as important.
Something within the class or subclass that uses an ability will be something that would lead me to call something more MAD, but I don't recall anything from the PHB subclasses requiring wisdom. Gloom stalker and monster slayer do get more MAD.
I haven't looked through the concentration spells to see which ones would be available and require Wisdom. If one of those exists, a dex build would be more optimal than a strength build. That would be a MAD build.
Absorb Elements, Fog Cloud, Hunters Mark, Goodberry, Healing Spirit, Find Traps, Lesser Restoration, Pass Without Trace, Locate Object, Silence, (the important part of) Spike Growth, Conjure Animals, Flame Arrows, Plant Growth, Water Breathing.... The list goes on and on. There are so many good spells on the Ranger list that don't have a spell save, spell attack, or spell modifier that playing an 8 wisdom pure ranger, or a 14 wisdom multiclassed ranger really doesn't hurt your spellcasting very much at all!
Rangers need exactly one stat to function (Dexterity), and Constitution is only a good idea if you're melee (even then, what's a handful of hit points one way or the other?). Heck, if you blow a feat for Heavy Armor proficiency, you could even go pure Strength instead and tank everything else, it really is a remarkably SAD class, in part because most of the class and subclass features are not save-based, and not used a number of times based on Wis modifier. The UA class options actually make Wisdom quite a bit more important, but at least for currently vanilla rangers... Hunters don't at all, Horizon Walkers don't at all, Gloom Stalkers only get an Initiative bonus from it and otherwise don't care, and Beast Master's don't care at all. It's really just Monster Slayers and Swarmkeepers that are at all penalized by low wisdom.
Absorb Elements, Fog Cloud, Hunters Mark, Goodberry, Healing Spirit, Find Traps, Lesser Restoration, Pass Without Trace, Locate Object, Silence, (the important part of) Spike Growth, Conjure Animals, Flame Arrows, Plant Growth, Water Breathing.... The list goes on and on. There are so many good spells on the Ranger list that don't have a spell save, spell attack, or spell modifier that playing an 8 wisdom pure ranger, or a 14 wisdom multiclassed ranger really doesn't hurt your spellcasting very much at all!
Rangers need exactly one stat to function (Dexterity), and Constitution is only a good idea if you're melee (even then, what's a handful of hit points one way or the other?). Heck, if you blow a feat for Heavy Armor proficiency, you could even go pure Strength instead and tank everything else, it really is a remarkably SAD class, in part because most of the class and subclass features are not save-based, and not used a number of times based on Wis modifier. The UA class options actually make Wisdom quite a bit more important, but at least for currently vanilla rangers... Hunters don't at all, Horizon Walkers don't at all, Gloom Stalkers only get an Initiative bonus from it and otherwise don't care, and Beast Master's don't care at all. It's really just Monster Slayers and Swarmkeepers that are at all penalized by low wisdom.
Spike Growth requires a WIS check against the Ranger's spell save DC. I could also name spells where putting points into WIS matters: Animal Friendship, Conjure Barrage, Conjure Volley, Grasping Vine, Snare, Wind Wall. Those are just from the PHB. And how embarrassing is it when your party asks you, the Ranger, to track somebody/something and Oooops! you dumped WIS and failed most of your Survival rolls? And a lot of spells cast against you would be WIS saving-throw-based: Fear, Hold Person, Suggestion, Charm Person, etc.
That effect of spike growth rarely matters. It is only used if a creature didn't see you cast the spell, but the spell only lasts 10 minutes. So it isn't a very useful trap in that regard. The most important parts (the difficult terrain and damage) don't care about spellcasting mod.
I agree it doesn't make sense to dump WIS as a ranger, but I also see why WIS isn't exactly a necessity.
Absorb Elements, Fog Cloud, Hunters Mark, Goodberry, Healing Spirit, Find Traps, Lesser Restoration, Pass Without Trace, Locate Object, Silence, (the important part of) Spike Growth, Conjure Animals, Flame Arrows, Plant Growth, Water Breathing.... The list goes on and on. There are so many good spells on the Ranger list that don't have a spell save, spell attack, or spell modifier that playing an 8 wisdom pure ranger, or a 14 wisdom multiclassed ranger really doesn't hurt your spellcasting very much at all!
Rangers need exactly one stat to function (Dexterity), and Constitution is only a good idea if you're melee (even then, what's a handful of hit points one way or the other?). Heck, if you blow a feat for Heavy Armor proficiency, you could even go pure Strength instead and tank everything else, it really is a remarkably SAD class, in part because most of the class and subclass features are not save-based, and not used a number of times based on Wis modifier. The UA class options actually make Wisdom quite a bit more important, but at least for currently vanilla rangers... Hunters don't at all, Horizon Walkers don't at all, Gloom Stalkers only get an Initiative bonus from it and otherwise don't care, and Beast Master's don't care at all. It's really just Monster Slayers and Swarmkeepers that are at all penalized by low wisdom.
Spike Growth requires a WIS check against the Ranger's spell save DC. I could also name spells where putting points into WIS matters: Animal Friendship, Conjure Barrage, Conjure Volley, Grasping Vine, Snare, Wind Wall. Those are just from the PHB. And how embarrassing is it when your party asks you, the Ranger, to track somebody/something and Oooops! you dumped WIS and failed most of your Survival rolls? And a lot of spells cast against you would be WIS saving-throw-based: Fear, Hold Person, Suggestion, Charm Person, etc.
I'm not saying that Wis isn't important for skills for a ranger. I'm saying that if you wanted to use those skills, you would be putting points into Wisdom regardless of class you were playing. Since you're putting the points into Wisdom regardless of the class, it isn't contributing to the level of MAD for the class. Plus, that's a pretty good story telling how a ranger got so good at surviving in the forest (or whatever the favored terrain) and proficient at tracking orcs and goblinoids (or other favored enemies) but can't do anything in other scenarios. It won't be the story everyone wants to follow, but it could make for great RP. Outlander or other backgrounds can negate some of those deficiencies, but ymmv depending on your DM.
I did mention that saves are an area where wisdom becomes important, but again that is true regardless of your class and becomes less important if you have a paladin to fight alongside. Gloomstalker gives you proficiency in Wisdom saving throws at 7th level and either charisma or intelligence if you already have Wisdom (if you multiclassed into ranger, at which point you'd have at least 13 Wisdom anyway). If you go gloomstalker, you can have proficiency to the 4 most common saves by 7th or 8th level (strength & dexterity from ranger, wisdom at 7th from Iron Mind, and Resilient (Con) at 4th or 8th). Depending on your race selection, some of those defenses will be innate anyway (elves have fey ancestry to protect against charm and sleep effects, halflings have Brave against being frightened). Those traits give you advantage, which most people will agree is about the equivalent to a +3 bonus to those rolls.
If you want to use the spells that you mentioned, then you're build will be more MAD. But none of those spells are required for a ranger. Conjure barrage and conjure volley could even be out of character for a melee ranger (though always having "artillery" is kind of cool).
I'm just trying to separate out MAD builds from MAD classes because some people (like me when I was newer to the game) don't realize that you don't always need to have high stats in certain areas to be effective. You want a high attack stat, you want good defense stats [which after fluid in importance depending on your role but can include AC, saves, HP, speed, abilities, & abilities that other PCs have (especially Auras)]. You want stats that your class abilities that you want to use require (you can use other armor even if your barbarian or monk has unarmored defense. You may reconsider that if your other abilities have limitations on your armor).
Having a melee ranger and having a ranged ranger are two different things. I'll probably put more emphasis on the spells you mentioned with a archery based ranger particularly because I don't need as high of a constitution stat. Depending on racial bonuses, my dex would be a 15 or 14, my wisdom would probably be the other score. My constitution and intelligence would probably be the 13 and the 12, in some order. My 8 and 10 dumps would probably go to charisma and strength. With a melee ranger, I'm going to emphasize either dex or strength. If strength, I'll try to get dex to 14 for medium armor (may include a racial bonus). The strength will still be 15 or 14. Constitution will be whatever the highest remaining stat is after those are placed (15, 14, or 13). Wisdom is the highest remaining, followed my intelligence (or maybe strength if dex based), with charisma bringing up the rear. Certain builds and/or characters might lead me in different directions and I'll modify from there.
TLDR. Most classes have builds that can be SAD, even if it seems like they would have to be more MAD. All classes can get MAD if you start trying to do everything (particularly skills).
I really like the idea of a nature-themed warrior, who tracks, hunts and lives on the outskirts of society, but rangers seem kinda lackluster. There are a few different ways to flavor Barbarians or Monks to have a connection to nature. I like rangers for their RP aspects, but it just isn't very much fun being the weakest link at the table. Is there a way to create a melee ranger that is competitive with either the raw damage output of a barbarian or the support (stun locking mostly) of a monk?
I have one build for you. Half-plate armor and shild to have one AC 19, fighting style duelist and the feat polearm master (use one quarterstaff) for your damage.
You can use your bonus action to attack in sequence to your normal attacking action and your reaction to make opportunity attacks (because of the rod polearmy master effects), match the hunter's mark and colossus slayer (archetype of hunter) and GG.
Here’s an idea - Shortsword, Half Plate and Shield. Max out your Dex the best you can. Wisdom won’t be that important. Go Hunter. Get Defense Fighting Style. Take Medium Armor Master and Shield Master.
Non-magical AC is 21.
For your Ranger archetype choices: Horde Breaker, Multi attack Defense, Uncanny Dodge.
This is a good economy of actions - if you get hit, you can use Uncanny to halve the damage. And then you get +4 AC on all the remaining attacks (25 AC). That’s a hefty boost and incredibly efficient.
Horde Breaker gets you an extra attack, but you still need a bonus action. That’s why you pick up Shield Master Feat - an extra Shove action to control the battlefield and get some spell defenses.
Best of all? No one will think a Ranger can handle the front lines but you’ll be an absolute juggernaut against the big beasts (especially the ones with Multiattack).
Level 1 spell - Ensnaring Strike. Keep the battlefield locked down. Bonus? Ensnaring Strike at the end of your first turn... hit melee the round after and shield bash to knock them down or away. Great synergy!
This is the perfect tank build I've been looking for to go with my idea of a Sentinel Dragonmarked ranger. I like how Shield Master effectively also gives you Evasion, albeit at the cost of your reaction. Any specific reason for using a short sword in this build, or would any finesse weapon work just as well? That potentially makes Defensive Duelist another useful feat for this build, although I wouldn't take it until much later in levels when your proficiency bonus is so high.
Uncanny Dodge already conflicts with Shield Master for using your reaction, adding Defensive Duelist would just make it even worse. Honestly multiclassing Rogue for 8 levels (after Ranger 5) would get you Evasion and Uncanny Dodge a few levels earlier and better than this pure ranger would, and would make you tankier by letting your Bonus Action Dodge every round instead of situational shield pushing. For the cost of ~8 HP, it's pretty much better in every way aside from spell progression.
Uncanny Dodge already conflicts with Shield Master for using your reaction, adding Defensive Duelist would just make it even worse. Honestly multiclassing Rogue for 8 levels (after Ranger 5) would get you Evasion and Uncanny Dodge a few levels earlier and better than this pure ranger would, and would make you tankier by letting your Bonus Action Dodge every round instead of situational shield pushing. For the cost of ~8 HP, it's pretty much better in every way aside from spell progression.
Where are you getting Bonus Action Dodge?
You’re missing out on +4 AC vs multiattacks (which is what a tank needs, and outpaces Evasion alone because it works on every attack after the first without a reaction) and whirlwind attack, not just 8HP and some spell slots. And you’re missing out on some pretty awesome ranger spells to be honest, especially Shield Push and Evasion combinations.
By constantly mixing up Cunning Action with the Monk ki-point abilities, whoops :)
Hehe. Monk Dodge is by far the most underutilized feature in the game in practice I find. Which is really too bad - bonus action Dodge is ridiculously potent.
I am not sure about raw damage output, but I created a Goliath Giant hunter ranger that was really fun to RP and had some really good combat features because he was a ranger. I don't think rangers are as versatile as a barbarian, monk, or fighter, but they can be really fun if you are okay with making a more narrowed down type of combat style
I played one for a while, it was ok. Very MAD though and not many feats that fit the build well. I originally went TWF with handaxes as my character was a Firbolg lumberjack, but eventually that didn't work out so well as I leveled up and had too many uses for my bonus action (Hunter's Mark, Slayer's Prey, Healing Spirit...) By the time I got both Slayer's Prey and Hunter's Mark up, the combat was pretty much over with. So I switched to greataxe and it performed a little better. At lower levels I was pretty much outdamaging all of my party but it didn't scale as well as I got to higher levels.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
I'm playing a Horizon Walker right now who uses a Dueling Fighting Style and a shortsword. I also do have a bow for when I need to hit something at range, but I am primarily a front liner. It is very much viable.
Presume you're using Duelling instead of Two-Weapon Fighting because you use your bonus action for other stuff more often than not?
Mega Yahtzee Thread:
Highest 41: brocker2001 (#11,285).
Yahtzee of 2's: Emmber (#36,161).
Lowest 9: JoeltheWalrus (#312), Emmber (#12,505) and Dertinus (#20,953).
Hunter might be a better archetype because the horizon walkers ability uses a bonus action so it would clash with the monk's flurry of blows and extra attacks, which also require bonus actions.
Horizon walkers (and monster hunters) aren't the best for duel-wielders because of the bonus action ability, same with gloomstalker at the first round of combat.
The problem with pure melee Rangers is that they have no concentration buffs whatsoever and are already a MAD class. Getting higher than a +2 to CON is difficult when you also have to raise your DEX and WIS. For comparison, Paladins get a boost at level 6 due to their aura ability and get more spell slots than Rangers by maxing CHA. Having no cantrips, Rangers only slightly benefit from the Warcaster feat. This means that multi-classing with Fighter from the beginning or spending a feat on Resilient (CON) is something you need to plan for ahead of time.
You don't actually need Wisdom for any of the base abilities except Foe Slayer (Level 20 capstone). Favored Enemy and Natural Explorer actually give you advantage for Wisdom abilities or double proficiency bonus for them to limit your need for them. If you aren't planning on hitting 20, you can safely place Wisdom at a middle level at creation and then ignore it if you choose.
Paladins get exactly the same number of spell slots as Rangers (both half casters). I'm guessing that you mean the number of spells known (Rangers) maxing at 11 and Spells Prepared (Paladin) maxing at 15 (Charisma modifier + half Paladin level, rounded down-max of 5+10). In practice, that difference isn't going to be that large since a Paladin doesn't focus on maxing out their Charisma for most builds. Either can make sure by focusing on spells that don't require a spell attack or spell save.
Basically, Rangers don't have to be MAD, but certain builds can go that way.
Yes, sorry spells known, not actual spell slots. Nevertheless, there is no lore/rules explanation about why Rangers have fewer spells known than Paladins' spells prepared when their respective spellcasting modifier stats are equal.
The 2X profic bonus to Wisdom only applies tracking Favored Enemies for one and while the Ranger is making a check related to their Favored Terrain for the other. It therefore often does not apply to Perception and Insight checks unless your character is playing in a campaign favoring your PC's choice of Favored Enemy or Favored Terrain. Perception is essential for frontline Rangers and that's what we're discussing here. If you're playing a Gloomstalker, you'd better be investing in WIS for Perception if you don't want your PC to get jumped by monsters all the time.
Also: concentration spells.
I'm not factoring skills into how MAD a class is simply because there isn't anything about the class that requires skills to be used as part of the class. Getting the +1 or +2 from a beginning 12, 13, or 14 and adding proficiency bonus will usually suffice but I won't begrudge someone from wanting more. Typically, if I want to be good at skills, I'll naturally add make those abilities higher, regardless of the class. Thus if I wanted to fill the scout role as a barbarian, fighter, ranger, druid, rogue or whatever, I'll put at least the 12 into wisdom (and I rarely put an 8 in wisdom anyway unless it's fitting a particular character build). Someone who is wanting to roll a melee ranger may not wish to specialize in scouting, which is another reason why I'm not including it. A strength based ranger would want a 14 in dex to maximize AC and a dex based would have no problems in that regard. Melee damage and a high AC are what I would consider important for a melee character, followed by at least moderate Con for HP. Having some mental save defenses is also good and this is where wisdom becomes more important. A Paladin gets bonuses there, however, any character within 10 ft (or 30 ft at higher levels) of a paladin also gets those bonuses. Therefore, that might not be as important.
Something within the class or subclass that uses an ability will be something that would lead me to call something more MAD, but I don't recall anything from the PHB subclasses requiring wisdom. Gloom stalker and monster slayer do get more MAD.
I haven't looked through the concentration spells to see which ones would be available and require Wisdom. If one of those exists, a dex build would be more optimal than a strength build. That would be a MAD build.
Absorb Elements, Fog Cloud, Hunters Mark, Goodberry, Healing Spirit, Find Traps, Lesser Restoration, Pass Without Trace, Locate Object, Silence, (the important part of) Spike Growth, Conjure Animals, Flame Arrows, Plant Growth, Water Breathing.... The list goes on and on. There are so many good spells on the Ranger list that don't have a spell save, spell attack, or spell modifier that playing an 8 wisdom pure ranger, or a 14 wisdom multiclassed ranger really doesn't hurt your spellcasting very much at all!
Rangers need exactly one stat to function (Dexterity), and Constitution is only a good idea if you're melee (even then, what's a handful of hit points one way or the other?). Heck, if you blow a feat for Heavy Armor proficiency, you could even go pure Strength instead and tank everything else, it really is a remarkably SAD class, in part because most of the class and subclass features are not save-based, and not used a number of times based on Wis modifier. The UA class options actually make Wisdom quite a bit more important, but at least for currently vanilla rangers... Hunters don't at all, Horizon Walkers don't at all, Gloom Stalkers only get an Initiative bonus from it and otherwise don't care, and Beast Master's don't care at all. It's really just Monster Slayers and Swarmkeepers that are at all penalized by low wisdom.
dndbeyond.com forum tags
I'm going to make this way harder than it needs to be.
Spike Growth requires a WIS check against the Ranger's spell save DC. I could also name spells where putting points into WIS matters: Animal Friendship, Conjure Barrage, Conjure Volley, Grasping Vine, Snare, Wind Wall. Those are just from the PHB. And how embarrassing is it when your party asks you, the Ranger, to track somebody/something and Oooops! you dumped WIS and failed most of your Survival rolls? And a lot of spells cast against you would be WIS saving-throw-based: Fear, Hold Person, Suggestion, Charm Person, etc.
That effect of spike growth rarely matters. It is only used if a creature didn't see you cast the spell, but the spell only lasts 10 minutes. So it isn't a very useful trap in that regard. The most important parts (the difficult terrain and damage) don't care about spellcasting mod.
I agree it doesn't make sense to dump WIS as a ranger, but I also see why WIS isn't exactly a necessity.
I'm not saying that Wis isn't important for skills for a ranger. I'm saying that if you wanted to use those skills, you would be putting points into Wisdom regardless of class you were playing. Since you're putting the points into Wisdom regardless of the class, it isn't contributing to the level of MAD for the class. Plus, that's a pretty good story telling how a ranger got so good at surviving in the forest (or whatever the favored terrain) and proficient at tracking orcs and goblinoids (or other favored enemies) but can't do anything in other scenarios. It won't be the story everyone wants to follow, but it could make for great RP. Outlander or other backgrounds can negate some of those deficiencies, but ymmv depending on your DM.
I did mention that saves are an area where wisdom becomes important, but again that is true regardless of your class and becomes less important if you have a paladin to fight alongside. Gloomstalker gives you proficiency in Wisdom saving throws at 7th level and either charisma or intelligence if you already have Wisdom (if you multiclassed into ranger, at which point you'd have at least 13 Wisdom anyway). If you go gloomstalker, you can have proficiency to the 4 most common saves by 7th or 8th level (strength & dexterity from ranger, wisdom at 7th from Iron Mind, and Resilient (Con) at 4th or 8th). Depending on your race selection, some of those defenses will be innate anyway (elves have fey ancestry to protect against charm and sleep effects, halflings have Brave against being frightened). Those traits give you advantage, which most people will agree is about the equivalent to a +3 bonus to those rolls.
If you want to use the spells that you mentioned, then you're build will be more MAD. But none of those spells are required for a ranger. Conjure barrage and conjure volley could even be out of character for a melee ranger (though always having "artillery" is kind of cool).
I'm just trying to separate out MAD builds from MAD classes because some people (like me when I was newer to the game) don't realize that you don't always need to have high stats in certain areas to be effective. You want a high attack stat, you want good defense stats [which after fluid in importance depending on your role but can include AC, saves, HP, speed, abilities, & abilities that other PCs have (especially Auras)]. You want stats that your class abilities that you want to use require (you can use other armor even if your barbarian or monk has unarmored defense. You may reconsider that if your other abilities have limitations on your armor).
Having a melee ranger and having a ranged ranger are two different things. I'll probably put more emphasis on the spells you mentioned with a archery based ranger particularly because I don't need as high of a constitution stat. Depending on racial bonuses, my dex would be a 15 or 14, my wisdom would probably be the other score. My constitution and intelligence would probably be the 13 and the 12, in some order. My 8 and 10 dumps would probably go to charisma and strength. With a melee ranger, I'm going to emphasize either dex or strength. If strength, I'll try to get dex to 14 for medium armor (may include a racial bonus). The strength will still be 15 or 14. Constitution will be whatever the highest remaining stat is after those are placed (15, 14, or 13). Wisdom is the highest remaining, followed my intelligence (or maybe strength if dex based), with charisma bringing up the rear. Certain builds and/or characters might lead me in different directions and I'll modify from there.
TLDR. Most classes have builds that can be SAD, even if it seems like they would have to be more MAD. All classes can get MAD if you start trying to do everything (particularly skills).
I have one build for you. Half-plate armor and shild to have one AC 19, fighting style duelist and the feat polearm master (use one quarterstaff) for your damage.
You can use your bonus action to attack in sequence to your normal attacking action and your reaction to make opportunity attacks (because of the rod polearmy master effects), match the hunter's mark and colossus slayer (archetype of hunter) and GG.
This is the perfect tank build I've been looking for to go with my idea of a Sentinel Dragonmarked ranger. I like how Shield Master effectively also gives you Evasion, albeit at the cost of your reaction. Any specific reason for using a short sword in this build, or would any finesse weapon work just as well? That potentially makes Defensive Duelist another useful feat for this build, although I wouldn't take it until much later in levels when your proficiency bonus is so high.
Uncanny Dodge already conflicts with Shield Master for using your reaction, adding Defensive Duelist would just make it even worse. Honestly multiclassing Rogue for 8 levels (after Ranger 5) would get you Evasion and Uncanny Dodge a few levels earlier and better than this pure ranger would, and would make you tankier by letting your Bonus Action Dodge every round instead of situational shield pushing. For the cost of ~8 HP, it's pretty much better in every way aside from spell progression.
dndbeyond.com forum tags
I'm going to make this way harder than it needs to be.
Where are you getting Bonus Action Dodge?
You’re missing out on +4 AC vs multiattacks (which is what a tank needs, and outpaces Evasion alone because it works on every attack after the first without a reaction) and whirlwind attack, not just 8HP and some spell slots. And you’re missing out on some pretty awesome ranger spells to be honest, especially Shield Push and Evasion combinations.
By constantly mixing up Cunning Action with the Monk ki-point abilities, whoops :)
dndbeyond.com forum tags
I'm going to make this way harder than it needs to be.
Hehe. Monk Dodge is by far the most underutilized feature in the game in practice I find. Which is really too bad - bonus action Dodge is ridiculously potent.
I am not sure about raw damage output, but I created a Goliath Giant hunter ranger that was really fun to RP and had some really good combat features because he was a ranger. I don't think rangers are as versatile as a barbarian, monk, or fighter, but they can be really fun if you are okay with making a more narrowed down type of combat style
I played one for a while, it was ok. Very MAD though and not many feats that fit the build well. I originally went TWF with handaxes as my character was a Firbolg lumberjack, but eventually that didn't work out so well as I leveled up and had too many uses for my bonus action (Hunter's Mark, Slayer's Prey, Healing Spirit...)
By the time I got both Slayer's Prey and Hunter's Mark up, the combat was pretty much over with.
So I switched to greataxe and it performed a little better.
At lower levels I was pretty much outdamaging all of my party but it didn't scale as well as I got to higher levels.