Gotcha - but how does he land the attacks to smite with, when any attacking stat he uses is going to be 14 tops? Okay, Gauntlets of Ogre Power could address that the same way the Headband of Intellect does for Intelligence casting, but you've still got mediocre HP and are now dependent on finding a powerful weapon as well as the Gauntlets. yeah, you can technically Rage to gain bonus toughness, but that turns half the character off for the duration since you get no casting. Even with three fighting styles, you just can't fix attacking with a 14 in your attack stat much past fifth level.
If there was a "Set Stat: 19" item for Charisma, this would be an entirely different conversation, but there is unfortunately(?) no such item, so we can't bork Hexblade to hell and back to make all the Charisma-keyed stuff turn on. We're stuck with INT from the Headband or STR from the Gauntlets, and I just don't see smites being impactful enough to outweigh turning on combat spells from Wizard and Artificer with Intelligence.
A +8 to hit and 2 attacks isn't bad. And it is not like you don't have 30 spells features to help or get advantage. And if you hit that is at least 6d8+4 damage.
It isn't great, and I acknowledged the merits of the Wizard build. We don't particularly need an item to buff CHA. All that would get is +2 to saves and spellcasting ability. There are items to boost STR and CON (the CON one might be the best regardless of build).
I’d try all caster classes first...that’s 6 classes and most of your spells are scalable as your slot levels still increase and you can still do real damage. Once you get there, if you really feel like getting some of the other classes, go for it.
I'd consider Mastermind Rogue. That 30 ft help as a bonus action with Master of Tactics would give you a lovely method of contributing in combat from a safer distance while making your mobility feel like you can move all over the table. Sneak attack with archery fighting style (+2 to hit) could give you some serviceable damage on scrubs while keeping yourself back out of harm's way, and being able to cast something like Mage Hand, Move Earth, Prestidigitation and other similar spells coupled with Master of Tactics could give you something to do when facing off against high AC/save everything types.
I'll have to theorycraft the build myself to see the merits of a melee build, but considering that you would have to point buy a 13 13 10 13 13 13 or a 13 13 12 13 12 12 (the con is the only one that matters what it actually is, though base human could give you +1 to everything and allow for the 13, 13, 13, 12, 12, 12 build.) Your Con isn't going to be super high, so you'll be susceptible to high damage abilities particularly if you're in a melee scrum that screams "Drop AOE here"! You'll want to carry a shield for more AC, which means you'll either need to be stowing that weapon a lot or human variant warcaster first level, or a Ruby of the War Mage to be able to reliably cast non cleric spells (if you get your emblem emblazoned on your shield).
edit: correct magic item tool tip
If you aren't worried about using Cleric to get Heavy Armor, another option for healing would be Grave Domain. The option isn't as potent with the likely slots the character would be using (an average life domain Healing Word 1st level would go for 6.5 HP versus the guaranteed 5 HP on a creature with 0 HP. 2nd Level 10 vs 9, 3rd level 13.5 vs 13 and is equal or better with higher slots.), but getting spare the dying as a 30 ft bonus action that doesn't count against your cleric cantrips would fit in with a ranged support theme. Forge for the +1 item and Knowledge for the 2 double proficiency skills (Arcana, History, Nature, or Religion) would be good fits as well. Another heavy armor option would be nature for another druid cantrip and either animal handling, nature, or survival proficiency to go along with the heavy armor. I'd probably rank them as Grave, Life, Forge, Knowledge/Nature in utility for the build, though a melee focus build would probably be Life, Forge, Nature, Grave, Knowledge. Life's always prepared spells are better than Grave's always prepared spells for this build though. That would have to be something to consider as well.
The man is already gimping himself to hell and back with this notion. Sage Advice has specifically said that druids are allowed to wear what they like within their proficiencies without breaking the game, if the DM decides they can. This character is already extremely bad at almost everything; if the DM is going to force Druidic armor restrictions, then Druid gets to be the last level the player takes, and the player gets to search for ironwood plate or similar. Elsewise there's basically no way to make this whole thing even remotely viable.
If they go with 14 dex and half plate eventually, they are typically only down an AC the entire time. This is assuming that 14 is possible. Plus, if they play it ranged, they hopefully aren't getting hit that often. Which is another argument against going melee like they want. But I agree with the sentiment that the druid armor restrictions wouldn't be a big deal to hand wave in this case, since the character will barely be able to be called a druid at all. Additionally, I can also see the side of the argument that the character should take what advantage that it can get.
The man is already gimping himself to hell and back with this notion. Sage Advice has specifically said that druids are allowed to wear what they like within their proficiencies without breaking the game, if the DM decides they can. This character is already extremely bad at almost everything; if the DM is going to force Druidic armor restrictions, then Druid gets to be the last level the player takes, and the player gets to search for ironwood plate or similar. Elsewise there's basically no way to make this whole thing even remotely viable.
of course... if the dm decides they can do whatever they want, they can do whatever they want. i personally wouldn't allow it. his goal is to be every class...which is fine, but at teh cost of pretty much everything.
Heh. At that point Heath, you should simply inform the player that he is not permitted to play this sort of character at your table. A DM should never allow a character to make a permanent character-building decision they know they're going to make that player regret. In-character decisions are one thing; being that guy that says "I'm not gonna say anything or stop this player from doing this build I hate...but I'm gonna make sure he hates his character and his life if he does" is a premium-grade gold-paved road to being an ******* DM.
Here's an unfinished ranged support version of such a character. I haven't finished picking the spells, but it'll give you a generalish idea about what you could have if you focused rogue. It does give you the extra Expertise that you wanted from Bard without giving the Jack of All Trades. That could be less important depending on the composition of your party anyway. I did give two levels to each Ranger and Paladin, which bumped the HP some while giving the defensive fighting styles. You could trade Protection (or archery) for Dueling or whatever. The third fighting style isn't likely to matter unless you go with something that is currently UA. Dropping the those two levels and putting them into Rogue would net you Evasion, an extra ASI and 4d6 sneak attack. Dropping only one of those gives you Evasion and the 4d6 sneak attack. I want to take a deeper dive into the spells for a really good idea, then revisit the concept with a melee minded character. I did just think that getting Heavy Armor basically means that you picked up Barbarian for the d12, since you wouldn't be incapable of using unarmored defense or rage with heavy armor. If you want rage as a oh crap button to gain the few resistances available to rage, you'd have to stick with medium armor.
ddb.ac/characters/21133142/U6Up7c
edit: updated the character link that has the finished list of cantrips and a list of spells. Artificer, Cleric, Druid, and Paladin are all prepared casters and thus I effectively have all of their spells. If I wasn't interested in the third fighting style and Zephyr Strike, I could get Hunter's Mark always prepared by switching your Ranger2 for a Paladin3 and going Oath of Vengeance. It'll duplicate Bane which is completely unnecessary, but it'll give you Vow of Emnity that would let you hit one creature with Advantage as a channel divinity. If Hex is good enough, you can go with a different Oath. You'd be losing out on spell slot progression by going Paladin3 instead of Ranger2, which could be remedied by going one of the other non-warlock and non-artificer casters.
.but I'm gonna make sure he hates his character and his life if he does" is a premium-grade gold-paved road to being an ******* DM.
i'd say my position is the opposite. if a person's goal is to play an every-class character, they should play an every class character. They should play it. If someone's goal is to run a marathon, you don't give them a bicycle for the last 5 miles....because when the question is asked 'did you run in a marathon?', the answer is yes, but there's nothing to be proud of. IMO, the beauty of an every class character is the absolute struggle it'd be.
Which would be valid if the situation wasn't such an easy end run.
Take druid towards the end of your run, and prioritize the acquisition of non-metal heavy armor first. Ask your party to assist you in sourcing some ironwood, dragon bits, bulette hide, or the like. Acquire druid-legal heavy armor, then take druid.
Otherwise there is no longer any justification for the Smite build, since the character is unable to wear armor (yes, druids are effectively unarmored in stock game configuration. Fight me on it, hide does NOT count as armor) and thus cannot tolerate close combat with its awful stats and complete lack of protection.
I'd think really carefully about how this will impact the way it affects your game before initiating this!
My group probably averages 50 hours of gameplay per level across the levels, so that's roughly 1,000 hours. For us that would be 111 x 9 hour sessions. Assuming you play twice a month, in order to get this character to level 20, you are going to have to be an enormous burden on your party for like... 5 years?
The party I play in is currently level 6. If we had a character who was Rogue 2, Fighter 1, Cleric 1, Bard 1, Sorcerer 1 then they would be so utterly useless in every conceivable way that I'd refuse to allow them to take any magical items, and would try to persuade my allies to cut them out of loot. Your character will be nothing but a burden, so badly underpowered that they are capable of achieving basically nothing. Bad stats, limited abilities, just a bunch of cantrips and level 1 spells combined with either heavy armour disadvantage on stealth or extremely bad AC for melee. Even multiclassing once weakens your character. This is weak-sauce on steroids.
After a while, your weakness and redundancy would start causing problems if the DM is including you when determining Challenge Ratings. If your team mates are decent role players and Good alignments, they'll start telling you to stay on the wagon or in the town and not come with them, since you'll be incapable of affecting combats whilst risking your life. If they're Evil alignments they'll probably just bump you off and take your stuff.
You do you, dude, but it's no fun being weak in combat (and this is the weakest you could be) and it's unlikely to be fun if the joke runs thin around level 5 and your party resent you.
.but I'm gonna make sure he hates his character and his life if he does" is a premium-grade gold-paved road to being an ******* DM.
i'd say my position is the opposite. if a person's goal is to play an every-class character, they should play an every class character. They should play it. If someone's goal is to run a marathon, you don't give them a bicycle for the last 5 miles....because when the question is asked 'did you run in a marathon?', the answer is yes, but there's nothing to be proud of. IMO, the beauty of an every class character is the absolute struggle it'd be.
The struggle is where the stories come from.
Struggle is good.
Making your friends lives harder and making them resent you is not. Nor is making the DM balance encounters around being one player short, because basically that's what they'll be.
The combat effectiveness of this character would be so weak for so many levels that they are basically forced to carry the player all the way. There's a girl in the campaign that I play who prioritises her own safety so strongly that one fight she literally just jumped out of a castle window when we found ourselves in a trap (and does this often). The result? Her character (not the player) was nearly kicked from the party, and when consumable loot is divided up, cannot be trusted to hold it. This is frustrating for her, and sad for the rest of us but we can't give healing potions to a character who flees every fight. The same applies here.
hmm.... what if.... what if I created a "paired character"? The little brain big protector trope? Like Ferra/Tor, or any cliche tiny braniac villain with a huge henchman. Except less Moral Kombat, less cliche, and more unique character setup. So my actual character doing the every class thing for the given story reasons, and the brute that follows him around for whatever story reason I come up with (I wont want him/her to just be hired, that's too simple/easy).
That'll give you something to do in combat. I'd keep the companion very simple, either barbarian or fighter, or possibly the warrior sidekick. Then the every class character, I would make the ranged support version. If you went with the mastermind rogue version, you could keep it even simpler by having the brute only attack what you attack, use the help action on, or is attacking you. He'll keep attacking unless you are attacked. If you didn't go mastermind, you could figure out something similar.
My suggestions: - Play as a variant human. You'll need that feat and the extra skill is also helpful.
- Start as Rogue for the Expertise which will make you useful for the group, Paladin or Fighter for high starting HP and Heavy Armour profiency. Spell slinging in Chainmail is pretty darn good.
- For me, other mandatory levels would be Bard 2 for Jack of All Trades and probably as many fighter levels as possible for hit points and ASIs. If you roll for stats and rolled well this becomes less important. A third level of bard would net you a bunch more proficiences and two more skills with Expertise. Fighter also seem like a logical reason to start, every society has people that punch other people for a living.
All in all, even though I would focus on Fighter levels I probably wouldn't play this as a very combat oriented character but rather more like a literal "jack of all trades". It's a person who has dabbled in a little bit of everything but can't be bothered to focus on one thing. I wouldn't mind this character using metal armour despite the level in druid with the motivation that "well, that's one of the reasons I'm not a druid anymore". In combat I would focus mainly on supporting others with guidance and maybe chucking a sacred flame or Eldritch bla-est or two. Outside of combat you can be pretty darn good thanks to your many proficiences and at least two skills with Expertise.
With point buy I would make something like this: Variant Human. Starting Feat Obersvant (+1 Wisdom). STR 13 DEX 13+1 CON 10 INT 13 WIS 13 (+1 from Observant) CHA 13+ 1
My first ASI would go towards getting the "Tough" feat (you gotta be tough to survive what you've gone through to end up where you are), the second one would either go into Dex or Charisma (to make you better in combat) or Strength and Charisma to round of your skills. if you go with 8 levels of fighter to get a third ASI I would pick whichever I didn't pick for the second ASI.
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A +8 to hit and 2 attacks isn't bad. And it is not like you don't have 30 spells features to help or get advantage. And if you hit that is at least 6d8+4 damage.
It isn't great, and I acknowledged the merits of the Wizard build. We don't particularly need an item to buff CHA. All that would get is +2 to saves and spellcasting ability. There are items to boost STR and CON (the CON one might be the best regardless of build).
I’d try all caster classes first...that’s 6 classes and most of your spells are scalable as your slot levels still increase and you can still do real damage. Once you get there, if you really feel like getting some of the other classes, go for it.
Guide to the Five Factions (PWYW)
Deck of Decks
I'd consider Mastermind Rogue. That 30 ft help as a bonus action with Master of Tactics would give you a lovely method of contributing in combat from a safer distance while making your mobility feel like you can move all over the table. Sneak attack with archery fighting style (+2 to hit) could give you some serviceable damage on scrubs while keeping yourself back out of harm's way, and being able to cast something like Mage Hand, Move Earth, Prestidigitation and other similar spells coupled with Master of Tactics could give you something to do when facing off against high AC/save everything types.
I'll have to theorycraft the build myself to see the merits of a melee build, but considering that you would have to point buy a 13 13 10 13 13 13 or a 13 13 12 13 12 12 (the con is the only one that matters what it actually is, though base human could give you +1 to everything and allow for the 13, 13, 13, 12, 12, 12 build.) Your Con isn't going to be super high, so you'll be susceptible to high damage abilities particularly if you're in a melee scrum that screams "Drop AOE here"! You'll want to carry a shield for more AC, which means you'll either need to be stowing that weapon a lot or human variant warcaster first level, or a Ruby of the War Mage to be able to reliably cast non cleric spells (if you get your emblem emblazoned on your shield).
edit: correct magic item tool tip
If you aren't worried about using Cleric to get Heavy Armor, another option for healing would be Grave Domain. The option isn't as potent with the likely slots the character would be using (an average life domain Healing Word 1st level would go for 6.5 HP versus the guaranteed 5 HP on a creature with 0 HP. 2nd Level 10 vs 9, 3rd level 13.5 vs 13 and is equal or better with higher slots.), but getting spare the dying as a 30 ft bonus action that doesn't count against your cleric cantrips would fit in with a ranged support theme. Forge for the +1 item and Knowledge for the 2 double proficiency skills (Arcana, History, Nature, or Religion) would be good fits as well. Another heavy armor option would be nature for another druid cantrip and either animal handling, nature, or survival proficiency to go along with the heavy armor. I'd probably rank them as Grave, Life, Forge, Knowledge/Nature in utility for the build, though a melee focus build would probably be Life, Forge, Nature, Grave, Knowledge. Life's always prepared spells are better than Grave's always prepared spells for this build though. That would have to be something to consider as well.
Don't forget he's still a Druid. "(druids will not wear armor or use shields made of metal)".
Guide to the Five Factions (PWYW)
Deck of Decks
The man is already gimping himself to hell and back with this notion. Sage Advice has specifically said that druids are allowed to wear what they like within their proficiencies without breaking the game, if the DM decides they can. This character is already extremely bad at almost everything; if the DM is going to force Druidic armor restrictions, then Druid gets to be the last level the player takes, and the player gets to search for ironwood plate or similar. Elsewise there's basically no way to make this whole thing even remotely viable.
Please do not contact or message me.
If they go with 14 dex and half plate eventually, they are typically only down an AC the entire time. This is assuming that 14 is possible. Plus, if they play it ranged, they hopefully aren't getting hit that often. Which is another argument against going melee like they want. But I agree with the sentiment that the druid armor restrictions wouldn't be a big deal to hand wave in this case, since the character will barely be able to be called a druid at all. Additionally, I can also see the side of the argument that the character should take what advantage that it can get.
of course... if the dm decides they can do whatever they want, they can do whatever they want. i personally wouldn't allow it. his goal is to be every class...which is fine, but at teh cost of pretty much everything.
Guide to the Five Factions (PWYW)
Deck of Decks
Glad you linked to this! One of my favorite videos... ever.
Blood Frenzy. The quipper has advantage on melee attack rolls against any creature that doesn't have all its hit points.
Bite. Melee Weapon Attack: +5 to hit, reach 5 ft., one target. Hit: 1 piercing damage.
Heh. At that point Heath, you should simply inform the player that he is not permitted to play this sort of character at your table. A DM should never allow a character to make a permanent character-building decision they know they're going to make that player regret. In-character decisions are one thing; being that guy that says "I'm not gonna say anything or stop this player from doing this build I hate...but I'm gonna make sure he hates his character and his life if he does" is a premium-grade gold-paved road to being an ******* DM.
Please do not contact or message me.
Reminds me of a story I heard about a magic hating dm making a wizard fail on every roll that wasn't a nat 20
Here's an unfinished ranged support version of such a character. I haven't finished picking the spells, but it'll give you a generalish idea about what you could have if you focused rogue. It does give you the extra Expertise that you wanted from Bard without giving the Jack of All Trades. That could be less important depending on the composition of your party anyway. I did give two levels to each Ranger and Paladin, which bumped the HP some while giving the defensive fighting styles. You could trade Protection (or archery) for Dueling or whatever. The third fighting style isn't likely to matter unless you go with something that is currently UA. Dropping the those two levels and putting them into Rogue would net you Evasion, an extra ASI and 4d6 sneak attack. Dropping only one of those gives you Evasion and the 4d6 sneak attack. I want to take a deeper dive into the spells for a really good idea, then revisit the concept with a melee minded character. I did just think that getting Heavy Armor basically means that you picked up Barbarian for the d12, since you wouldn't be incapable of using unarmored defense or rage with heavy armor. If you want rage as a oh crap button to gain the few resistances available to rage, you'd have to stick with medium armor.
ddb.ac/characters/21133142/U6Up7c
edit: updated the character link that has the finished list of cantrips and a list of spells. Artificer, Cleric, Druid, and Paladin are all prepared casters and thus I effectively have all of their spells. If I wasn't interested in the third fighting style and Zephyr Strike, I could get Hunter's Mark always prepared by switching your Ranger2 for a Paladin3 and going Oath of Vengeance. It'll duplicate Bane which is completely unnecessary, but it'll give you Vow of Emnity that would let you hit one creature with Advantage as a channel divinity. If Hex is good enough, you can go with a different Oath. You'd be losing out on spell slot progression by going Paladin3 instead of Ranger2, which could be remedied by going one of the other non-warlock and non-artificer casters.
i'd say my position is the opposite. if a person's goal is to play an every-class character, they should play an every class character. They should play it. If someone's goal is to run a marathon, you don't give them a bicycle for the last 5 miles....because when the question is asked 'did you run in a marathon?', the answer is yes, but there's nothing to be proud of. IMO, the beauty of an every class character is the absolute struggle it'd be.
The struggle is where the stories come from.
Guide to the Five Factions (PWYW)
Deck of Decks
Which would be valid if the situation wasn't such an easy end run.
Take druid towards the end of your run, and prioritize the acquisition of non-metal heavy armor first. Ask your party to assist you in sourcing some ironwood, dragon bits, bulette hide, or the like. Acquire druid-legal heavy armor, then take druid.
Otherwise there is no longer any justification for the Smite build, since the character is unable to wear armor (yes, druids are effectively unarmored in stock game configuration. Fight me on it, hide does NOT count as armor) and thus cannot tolerate close combat with its awful stats and complete lack of protection.
Please do not contact or message me.
lol, my Firbolg would argue with you...the dead cow he wears makes him feel bold and impenetrable.
Guide to the Five Factions (PWYW)
Deck of Decks
yes mine too lol
“I will take responsibility for what I have done. [...] If must fall, I will rise each time a better man.” ― Brandon Sanderson, Oathbringer.
I'd think really carefully about how this will impact the way it affects your game before initiating this!
My group probably averages 50 hours of gameplay per level across the levels, so that's roughly 1,000 hours. For us that would be 111 x 9 hour sessions. Assuming you play twice a month, in order to get this character to level 20, you are going to have to be an enormous burden on your party for like... 5 years?
The party I play in is currently level 6. If we had a character who was Rogue 2, Fighter 1, Cleric 1, Bard 1, Sorcerer 1 then they would be so utterly useless in every conceivable way that I'd refuse to allow them to take any magical items, and would try to persuade my allies to cut them out of loot. Your character will be nothing but a burden, so badly underpowered that they are capable of achieving basically nothing. Bad stats, limited abilities, just a bunch of cantrips and level 1 spells combined with either heavy armour disadvantage on stealth or extremely bad AC for melee. Even multiclassing once weakens your character. This is weak-sauce on steroids.
After a while, your weakness and redundancy would start causing problems if the DM is including you when determining Challenge Ratings. If your team mates are decent role players and Good alignments, they'll start telling you to stay on the wagon or in the town and not come with them, since you'll be incapable of affecting combats whilst risking your life. If they're Evil alignments they'll probably just bump you off and take your stuff.
You do you, dude, but it's no fun being weak in combat (and this is the weakest you could be) and it's unlikely to be fun if the joke runs thin around level 5 and your party resent you.
Struggle is good.
Making your friends lives harder and making them resent you is not. Nor is making the DM balance encounters around being one player short, because basically that's what they'll be.
The combat effectiveness of this character would be so weak for so many levels that they are basically forced to carry the player all the way. There's a girl in the campaign that I play who prioritises her own safety so strongly that one fight she literally just jumped out of a castle window when we found ourselves in a trap (and does this often). The result? Her character (not the player) was nearly kicked from the party, and when consumable loot is divided up, cannot be trusted to hold it. This is frustrating for her, and sad for the rest of us but we can't give healing potions to a character who flees every fight. The same applies here.
hmm.... what if....
what if I created a "paired character"?
The little brain big protector trope?
Like Ferra/Tor, or any cliche tiny braniac villain with a huge henchman.
Except less Moral Kombat, less cliche, and more unique character setup.
So my actual character doing the every class thing for the given story reasons, and the brute that follows him around for whatever story reason I come up with (I wont want him/her to just be hired, that's too simple/easy).
That'll give you something to do in combat. I'd keep the companion very simple, either barbarian or fighter, or possibly the warrior sidekick. Then the every class character, I would make the ranged support version. If you went with the mastermind rogue version, you could keep it even simpler by having the brute only attack what you attack, use the help action on, or is attacking you. He'll keep attacking unless you are attacked. If you didn't go mastermind, you could figure out something similar.
My suggestions:
- Play as a variant human. You'll need that feat and the extra skill is also helpful.
- Start as Rogue for the Expertise which will make you useful for the group, Paladin or Fighter for high starting HP and Heavy Armour profiency. Spell slinging in Chainmail is pretty darn good.
- For me, other mandatory levels would be Bard 2 for Jack of All Trades and probably as many fighter levels as possible for hit points and ASIs. If you roll for stats and rolled well this becomes less important. A third level of bard would net you a bunch more proficiences and two more skills with Expertise. Fighter also seem like a logical reason to start, every society has people that punch other people for a living.
All in all, even though I would focus on Fighter levels I probably wouldn't play this as a very combat oriented character but rather more like a literal "jack of all trades". It's a person who has dabbled in a little bit of everything but can't be bothered to focus on one thing. I wouldn't mind this character using metal armour despite the level in druid with the motivation that "well, that's one of the reasons I'm not a druid anymore".
In combat I would focus mainly on supporting others with guidance and maybe chucking a sacred flame or Eldritch bla-est or two. Outside of combat you can be pretty darn good thanks to your many proficiences and at least two skills with Expertise.
With point buy I would make something like this:
Variant Human. Starting Feat Obersvant (+1 Wisdom).
STR 13
DEX 13+1
CON 10
INT 13
WIS 13 (+1 from Observant)
CHA 13+ 1
My first ASI would go towards getting the "Tough" feat (you gotta be tough to survive what you've gone through to end up where you are), the second one would either go into Dex or Charisma (to make you better in combat) or Strength and Charisma to round of your skills. if you go with 8 levels of fighter to get a third ASI I would pick whichever I didn't pick for the second ASI.