Hello! I know that the many people see a necromancer as that evil guy that controll an army of zombies. However there must be much more interesting ways to play a necromancer by using skeletons that has a decent int of 7 (slightly below most barbarians I have had in my party). I have a couple of ideas but I would love to hear if you guys have anything else. Please correct me if you see flaws in any of my ideas, I am not a rule expert in DnD.
- Put on clothes or armor to "disguise" the skeleton to pass as a servant or a guard. Roleplay situations could improve when you are not visibly having undeads as companions.
- As skeletons can use martial weapons, equip them with longbows or crossbows. The damage is not super great, but everything that differs them from the picture of a "normal" skeleton will increase their chance to pass as a guard.
- Slap on a scale mail and shield on a skeleton and let it run up to stand next to the rogue, to give him sneak attacks. As the skeletons attacks are crap compared to the roggs, so have the skeleton take the dodge action each round (=AC 18, attacks against it is made with disadvantage) to make it survive a bit longer
- Have the skeletons use the dash action to rush an enemy. When in melee (not the same round as the dash action), grapple it. When the creature is restrained, cast cloudkill.
- Use skeletons as porters. As they do not get tired they can follow with a permanent dash action, giving effective movement of 60 feet per round.
- Use skeletons as guards when taking a long rest = noone in the party needs to stand guard and disturb their sleep.
- Use as a digging crew. 7 int, 10 str and never getting tired or having to stop to eat makes a quite efficient "working crew", as long as their tasks are simple.
- Use a skeleton as "combat medic" to run up to an unconcious player and pour a healing potion down their throught.
Human. Male. Possibly. Don't be a divider. My characters' backgrounds are written like instruction manuals rather than stories. My opinion and preferences don't mean you're wrong. I am 99.7603% convinced that the digital dice are messing with me. I roll high when nobody's looking and low when anyone else can see.🎲 “It's a bit early to be thinking about an epitaph. No?” will be my epitaph.
The only armor proficiency skeletons have is armor scraps and the only weapon proficiencies are shortswords and shortbows.
The other ideas are pretty good.
I think a good necromancer should take mold earth both as a way to quickly find corpses and as a way to hide the summoned undead (just bury them temporarily). That sort of eliminates the need for diggers. Miners on the other hand...
I totally love the idea about move earth to hide undeads! A true horror movie armbush, with undeads crawing their way out of the ground... :)
As I read the rules RAW a skelton can equip armor and use different weapons. Look at the text at page 272 in the monster manual. "A skeleton can fight with weapons and wear armor"
I totally love the idea about move earth to hide undeads! A true horror movie armbush, with undeads crawing their way out of the ground... :)
As I read the rules RAW a skelton can equip armor and use different weapons. Look at the text at page 272 in the monster manual. "A skeleton can fight with weapons and wear armor"
I've been pondering shenanigans involving summoned undead and a ring of spell storing. You could definitely give your minions each a familiar, but I'm not sure how useful that would be outside of scouting perhaps. Maybe you could order your minions to order their familiars to follow your verbal instructions.
Skeletons explicitly "can fight with weapons and wear armor" per the Obedient Servants heading in their creature description. The Equipment section of the MM provides that:
Equipment
A stat block rarely refers to equipment, other than armor or weapons used by a monster. A creature that customarily wears clothes, such as a humanoid, is assumed to be dressed appropriately.
You can equip monsters with additional gear and trinkets however you like, using the equipment chapter of the Player’s Handbook for inspiration, and you decide how much of a monster’s equipment is recoverable after the creature is slain and whether any of that equipment is still usable. A battered suit of armor made for a monster is rarely usable by someone else, for instance.
If a spellcasting monster needs material components to cast its spells, assume that it has the material components it needs to cast the spells in its stat block.
ARMOR, WEAPON, AND TOOL PROFICIENCIES
Assume that a creature is proficient with its armor, weapons, and tools. If you swap them out, you decide whether the creature is proficient with its new equipment.
For example, a hill giant typically wears hide armor and wields a greatclub. You could equip a hill giant with chain mail and a greataxe instead, and assume the giant is proficient with both, one or the other, or neither.
See the Player’s Handbook for rules on using armor or weapons without proficiency.
So, (1) a creature is always proficient with the armor/weapons/tools; (2) even when giving new items, a DM can decide that they are proficient with those as well; and (3) the Skeleton entry specifically tells us that they can "fight with weapons and wear armor" in general. I think there's a strong argument for giving Skeleton proficiency in all weapons and armor as a result, attacking at +2 to hit/+0 damage with Strength weapons and +4 to hit/+2 damage with Finesse or Ranged weapons.
Zombie, less so. "A zombie armed with a weapon uses it" per Mindless Soldiers, so there's that arguing in favor of it, but they're also described as so dumb that they won't pick it back up if they drop it, and are so clumsy that they don't even apply their proficiency bonus to their own slam attack that is printed in their block. It may be that Zombies have a proficiency bonus of +0, or maybe they have a special -2 penalty to their attacks, I don't know mechanically what exactly they have going on. Without proficiency they'd attack at +1 to hit/+1 damage with Strength weapons and (if they're even smart enough to use them) -2 to hit/-2 damage with Ranged weapons. Making them wear unproficient armor would result in "disadvantage on any ability check, saving throw, or attack roll that involves Strength or Dexterity."
Back to the original question, other uses? Just physically being bodies in squares is one overlooked use, because:
"you can move through a hostile creature's space only if the creature is at least two sizes larger or smaller than you;"
"another creature's space is difficult terrain for you;"
"you can't willingly end your move in its space."
"A target with half cover has a +2 bonus to AC and Dexterity saving throws. A target has half cover if an obstacle blocks at least half of its body. The obstacle might be a low wall, a large piece of furniture, a narrow tree trunk, or a creature, whether that creature is an enemy or a friend."
Regarding proficiency, I'd suggest to DMs to give the skeleton proficiency with the weapons that it had in life. If it would have used Simple weapons, it gets prof in that, if it's usually using Martial weapons, it can use those. Light Crossbows seem like a good bet.
Other uses for skeletons:
Walk 20 feet ahead of the party in dungeons to trip every pressure trap they can come across
Perform as entertainers for an exotic display
Send them to burgle shops or houses without having to go inside yourself
Get on hands and knees and serve as a really slow mount when you really can't be bothered to walk
Carry explosives right up to the enemy
Cover their heads in clay or otherwise disguise them to look like people so that they appear like a legitimate threat in group fights (get the whole party to dress up in hoods, long cloaks and baggy clothing to this even more confusing)
The only armor proficiency skeletons have is armor scraps and the only weapon proficiencies are shortswords and shortbows.
The other ideas are pretty good.
I think a good necromancer should take mold earth both as a way to quickly find corpses and as a way to hide the summoned undead (just bury them temporarily). That sort of eliminates the need for diggers. Miners on the other hand...
Armor Proficiency: Anyone can put on a suit of armor or strap a Shield to an arm. Only those proficient in the armor’s use know how to wear it effectively, however. Your class gives you proficiency with certain types of armor. If you wear armor that you lack proficiency with, you have disadvantage on any ability check, saving throw, or Attack roll that involves Strength or Dexterity, and you can’t cast Spells.
you could have the skeleton wear whatever and dodge, and it will still work as OP suggested specifically for the standing there and dodging only aspect.
The only armor proficiency skeletons have is armor scraps and the only weapon proficiencies are shortswords and shortbows.
The other ideas are pretty good.
I think a good necromancer should take mold earth both as a way to quickly find corpses and as a way to hide the summoned undead (just bury them temporarily). That sort of eliminates the need for diggers. Miners on the other hand...
Armor Proficiency: Anyone can put on a suit of armor or strap a Shield to an arm. Only those proficient in the armor’s use know how to wear it effectively, however. Your class gives you proficiency with certain types of armor. If you wear armor that you lack proficiency with, you have disadvantage on any ability check, saving throw, or Attack roll that involves Strength or Dexterity, and you can’t cast Spells.
you could have the skeleton wear whatever and dodge, and it will still work as OP suggested specifically for the standing there and dodging only aspect.
The only armor proficiency skeletons have is armor scraps and the only weapon proficiencies are shortswords and shortbows.
pwhimp's observation is primarily about skeletons that are found in the world. These aren't actually proficiencies as much as what kind of gear that they have on them by default. It doesn't say how the skeletons came about them.
Chicken_Champ's comment that I quoted tells that there is more to be found in the Monster Manual, the passage that he mentions mostly in passing says that they are capable of fighting with more. What they start with will be left up to the DM's ruling on any rules found in the spells that animate the skeletons, potentially leaving them with nothing or having very nice magical arms and armor (subject to the location from which the skeletons were raised, could vary within the same campaign let alone from table to table). Any upgrades from those starting arms and armor would be the responsibility of the necromancer/party. To be noted, the passage doesn't necessarily give them proficiency with all arms and armor. That's left to the DM to rule upon.
Finally, EightPackKilla's notion that the Skeleton can wear whatever and dodge is spot on. The lack of proficiency will not affect the AC that the skeleton will have. Any strength or dexterity saving throw will be subject to disadvantage and grappling will be a challenge if the DM rules that the skeleton is not proficient for any reason. The attacks that are made against you when you dodge are made with disadvantage (as long as you can see the attacker), so there would be no consequences there barring DM fiat.
Dodge
When you take the Dodge action, you focus entirely on avoiding attacks. Until the start of your next turn, any attack roll made against you has disadvantage if you can see the attacker, and you make Dexterity saving throws with advantage. You lose this benefit if you are incapacitated or if your speed drops to 0.
Being able to make Dexterity saving throws with advantage would cancel out the disadvantage that was gained for not being proficient, so it would be straight rolls for the Fireballs and other similar spells coming their way.
Something to point out that hasn't been mentioned yet that deals particularly with heavy armor:
Heavy Armor. Heavier armor interferes with the wearer's ability to move quickly, stealthily, and freely. If the Armor table shows "Str 13" or "Str 15" in the Strength column for an armor type, the armor reduces the wearer's speed by 10 feet unless the wearer has a Strength score equal to or higher than the listed score.
Since the Skeleton's strength is 10, it wouldn't qualify for the strength requirement for the heavy armor that isn't Ring Mail and thus would be moving at 20 ft instead of 30 ft. A DM may handwave this to 25 ft if you are working specifically with dwarven skeletons, but there is no guarantee on that.
The only armor proficiency skeletons have is armor scraps and the only weapon proficiencies are shortswords and shortbows.
The other ideas are pretty good.
I think a good necromancer should take mold earth both as a way to quickly find corpses and as a way to hide the summoned undead (just bury them temporarily). That sort of eliminates the need for diggers. Miners on the other hand...
Armor Proficiency: Anyone can put on a suit of armor or strap a Shield to an arm. Only those proficient in the armor’s use know how to wear it effectively, however. Your class gives you proficiency with certain types of armor. If you wear armor that you lack proficiency with, you have disadvantage on any ability check, saving throw, or Attack roll that involves Strength or Dexterity, and you can’t cast Spells.
you could have the skeleton wear whatever and dodge, and it will still work as OP suggested specifically for the standing there and dodging only aspect.
The only armor proficiency skeletons have is armor scraps and the only weapon proficiencies are shortswords and shortbows.
pwhimp's observation is primarily about skeletons that are found in the world. These aren't actually proficiencies as much as what kind of gear that they have on them by default. It doesn't say how the skeletons came about them.
Chicken_Champ's comment that I quoted tells that there is more to be found in the Monster Manual, the passage that he mentions mostly in passing says that they are capable of fighting with more. What they start with will be left up to the DM's ruling on any rules found in the spells that animate the skeletons, potentially leaving them with nothing or having very nice magical arms and armor (subject to the location from which the skeletons were raised, could vary within the same campaign let alone from table to table). Any upgrades from those starting arms and armor would be the responsibility of the necromancer/party. To be noted, the passage doesn't necessarily give them proficiency with all arms and armor. That's left to the DM to rule upon.
Finally, EightPackKilla's notion that the Skeleton can wear whatever and dodge is spot on. The lack of proficiency will not affect the AC that the skeleton will have. Any strength or dexterity saving throw will be subject to disadvantage and grappling will be a challenge if the DM rules that the skeleton is not proficient for any reason. The attacks that are made against you when you dodge are made with disadvantage (as long as you can see the attacker), so there would be no consequences there barring DM fiat.
Dodge
When you take the Dodge action, you focus entirely on avoiding attacks. Until the start of your next turn, any attack roll made against you has disadvantage if you can see the attacker, and you make Dexterity saving throws with advantage. You lose this benefit if you are incapacitated or if your speed drops to 0.
Being able to make Dexterity saving throws with advantage would cancel out the disadvantage that was gained for not being proficient, so it would be straight rolls for the Fireballs and other similar spells coming their way.
Something to point out that hasn't been mentioned yet that deals particularly with heavy armor:
Heavy Armor. Heavier armor interferes with the wearer's ability to move quickly, stealthily, and freely. If the Armor table shows "Str 13" or "Str 15" in the Strength column for an armor type, the armor reduces the wearer's speed by 10 feet unless the wearer has a Strength score equal to or higher than the listed score.
Since the Skeleton's strength is 10, it wouldn't qualify for the strength requirement for the heavy armor that isn't Ring Mail and thus would be moving at 20 ft instead of 30 ft. A DM may handwave this to 25 ft if you are working specifically with dwarven skeletons, but there is no guarantee on that.
Platemail and shielded skeletons just out there dodging and getting grappled to the ground.
what more could you ask for as a distraction to protect your squishy wizard?
Platemail and shielded skeletons just out there dodging and getting grappled to the ground.
what more could you ask for as a distraction to protect your squishy wizard?
Standard skeleton has a STR of 10, no plate armor by the 5e rules (need STR 15).
I like your thinking though! :D
They can wear plate, they just lose 10 movement doing so. That rule was quoted in the comment that he quoted that response to. See the weapons and armor section of the PHB or basic rules.
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Hello!
I know that the many people see a necromancer as that evil guy that controll an army of zombies. However there must be much more interesting ways to play a necromancer by using skeletons that has a decent int of 7 (slightly below most barbarians I have had in my party). I have a couple of ideas but I would love to hear if you guys have anything else. Please correct me if you see flaws in any of my ideas, I am not a rule expert in DnD.
- Put on clothes or armor to "disguise" the skeleton to pass as a servant or a guard. Roleplay situations could improve when you are not visibly having undeads as companions.
- As skeletons can use martial weapons, equip them with longbows or crossbows. The damage is not super great, but everything that differs them from the picture of a "normal" skeleton will increase their chance to pass as a guard.
- Slap on a scale mail and shield on a skeleton and let it run up to stand next to the rogue, to give him sneak attacks. As the skeletons attacks are crap compared to the roggs, so have the skeleton take the dodge action each round (=AC 18, attacks against it is made with disadvantage) to make it survive a bit longer
- Have the skeletons use the dash action to rush an enemy. When in melee (not the same round as the dash action), grapple it. When the creature is restrained, cast cloudkill.
- Use skeletons as porters. As they do not get tired they can follow with a permanent dash action, giving effective movement of 60 feet per round.
- Use skeletons as guards when taking a long rest = noone in the party needs to stand guard and disturb their sleep.
- Use as a digging crew. 7 int, 10 str and never getting tired or having to stop to eat makes a quite efficient "working crew", as long as their tasks are simple.
- Use a skeleton as "combat medic" to run up to an unconcious player and pour a healing potion down their throught.
Other ideas are very welcome!
Musicians. Built in xylophones and washboards.
Human. Male. Possibly. Don't be a divider.
My characters' backgrounds are written like instruction manuals rather than stories. My opinion and preferences don't mean you're wrong.
I am 99.7603% convinced that the digital dice are messing with me. I roll high when nobody's looking and low when anyone else can see.🎲
“It's a bit early to be thinking about an epitaph. No?” will be my epitaph.
The only armor proficiency skeletons have is armor scraps and the only weapon proficiencies are shortswords and shortbows.
The other ideas are pretty good.
I think a good necromancer should take mold earth both as a way to quickly find corpses and as a way to hide the summoned undead (just bury them temporarily). That sort of eliminates the need for diggers. Miners on the other hand...
I totally love the idea about move earth to hide undeads! A true horror movie armbush, with undeads crawing their way out of the ground... :)
As I read the rules RAW a skelton can equip armor and use different weapons. Look at the text at page 272 in the monster manual. "A skeleton can fight with weapons and wear armor"
Maybe you're right but this was the last I read about it.
I've been pondering shenanigans involving summoned undead and a ring of spell storing. You could definitely give your minions each a familiar, but I'm not sure how useful that would be outside of scouting perhaps. Maybe you could order your minions to order their familiars to follow your verbal instructions.
Skeletons explicitly "can fight with weapons and wear armor" per the Obedient Servants heading in their creature description. The Equipment section of the MM provides that:
So, (1) a creature is always proficient with the armor/weapons/tools; (2) even when giving new items, a DM can decide that they are proficient with those as well; and (3) the Skeleton entry specifically tells us that they can "fight with weapons and wear armor" in general. I think there's a strong argument for giving Skeleton proficiency in all weapons and armor as a result, attacking at +2 to hit/+0 damage with Strength weapons and +4 to hit/+2 damage with Finesse or Ranged weapons.
Zombie, less so. "A zombie armed with a weapon uses it" per Mindless Soldiers, so there's that arguing in favor of it, but they're also described as so dumb that they won't pick it back up if they drop it, and are so clumsy that they don't even apply their proficiency bonus to their own slam attack that is printed in their block. It may be that Zombies have a proficiency bonus of +0, or maybe they have a special -2 penalty to their attacks, I don't know mechanically what exactly they have going on. Without proficiency they'd attack at +1 to hit/+1 damage with Strength weapons and (if they're even smart enough to use them) -2 to hit/-2 damage with Ranged weapons. Making them wear unproficient armor would result in "disadvantage on any ability check, saving throw, or attack roll that involves Strength or Dexterity."
dndbeyond.com forum tags
I'm going to make this way harder than it needs to be.
Back to the original question, other uses? Just physically being bodies in squares is one overlooked use, because:
dndbeyond.com forum tags
I'm going to make this way harder than it needs to be.
Regarding proficiency, I'd suggest to DMs to give the skeleton proficiency with the weapons that it had in life. If it would have used Simple weapons, it gets prof in that, if it's usually using Martial weapons, it can use those. Light Crossbows seem like a good bet.
Other uses for skeletons:
use them as a ladder
Guide to the Five Factions (PWYW)
Deck of Decks
Armor Proficiency: Anyone can put on a suit of armor or strap a Shield to an arm. Only those proficient in the armor’s use know how to wear it effectively, however. Your class gives you proficiency with certain types of armor. If you wear armor that you lack proficiency with, you have disadvantage on any ability check, saving throw, or Attack roll that involves Strength or Dexterity, and you can’t cast Spells.
you could have the skeleton wear whatever and dodge, and it will still work as OP suggested specifically for the standing there and dodging only aspect.
Blank
pwhimp's observation is primarily about skeletons that are found in the world. These aren't actually proficiencies as much as what kind of gear that they have on them by default. It doesn't say how the skeletons came about them.
Chicken_Champ's comment that I quoted tells that there is more to be found in the Monster Manual, the passage that he mentions mostly in passing says that they are capable of fighting with more. What they start with will be left up to the DM's ruling on any rules found in the spells that animate the skeletons, potentially leaving them with nothing or having very nice magical arms and armor (subject to the location from which the skeletons were raised, could vary within the same campaign let alone from table to table). Any upgrades from those starting arms and armor would be the responsibility of the necromancer/party. To be noted, the passage doesn't necessarily give them proficiency with all arms and armor. That's left to the DM to rule upon.
Finally, EightPackKilla's notion that the Skeleton can wear whatever and dodge is spot on. The lack of proficiency will not affect the AC that the skeleton will have. Any strength or dexterity saving throw will be subject to disadvantage and grappling will be a challenge if the DM rules that the skeleton is not proficient for any reason. The attacks that are made against you when you dodge are made with disadvantage (as long as you can see the attacker), so there would be no consequences there barring DM fiat.
Dodge
When you take the Dodge action, you focus entirely on avoiding attacks. Until the start of your next turn, any attack roll made against you has disadvantage if you can see the attacker, and you make Dexterity saving throws with advantage. You lose this benefit if you are incapacitated or if your speed drops to 0.
Being able to make Dexterity saving throws with advantage would cancel out the disadvantage that was gained for not being proficient, so it would be straight rolls for the Fireballs and other similar spells coming their way.
Something to point out that hasn't been mentioned yet that deals particularly with heavy armor:
Heavy Armor. Heavier armor interferes with the wearer's ability to move quickly, stealthily, and freely. If the Armor table shows "Str 13" or "Str 15" in the Strength column for an armor type, the armor reduces the wearer's speed by 10 feet unless the wearer has a Strength score equal to or higher than the listed score.
Since the Skeleton's strength is 10, it wouldn't qualify for the strength requirement for the heavy armor that isn't Ring Mail and thus would be moving at 20 ft instead of 30 ft. A DM may handwave this to 25 ft if you are working specifically with dwarven skeletons, but there is no guarantee on that.
Platemail and shielded skeletons just out there dodging and getting grappled to the ground.
what more could you ask for as a distraction to protect your squishy wizard?
Blank
Rowers on your galley.
Bridge.
Frame for a Tent.
Camp Furniture.
"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
-Ilyara Thundertale
Ahhh, you readed my thoughts there.... hahahaha
Do you know in Catalonia we play ""Human towers"", just to see how high we can reach ???
My Ready-to-rock&roll chars:
Dertinus Tristany // Amilcar Barca // Vicenç Sacrarius // Oriol Deulofeu // Grovtuk
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But that makes them last a very short time.
"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
-Ilyara Thundertale
You have trouble finding fresh skeletons? Enlist a Tabaxi swashbuckler. Then your party will have no shortage of skeletons for your necromancer.
Blank
Takes a bit to get skeletons. Zombies are easier. The OP was asking about skeletons.
"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
-Ilyara Thundertale
Standard skeleton has a STR of 10, no plate armor by the 5e rules (need STR 15).
I like your thinking though! :D
...cryptographic randomness!
They can wear plate, they just lose 10 movement doing so. That rule was quoted in the comment that he quoted that response to. See the weapons and armor section of the PHB or basic rules.