Ever heard of the wish spell??? Yeah, problem solved. The wizard can just wish the Paladin out of existence.
It’s almost like the wish spell description address that....:
“For example, wishing that a villain were dead might propel you forward in time to a period when that villain is no longer alive, effectively removing you from the game.”
I believe there's a rules paradox involving transformed creatures and disintegrate (most notably level 20 Circle of the Moon Druids) where a creature simultaneously reverts to its true form and gets turned to dust from being reduced to 0 hit points. A similar instance can be found in some of the power word spells, with a special focus on power word: kill.
Using the former spell, you can pair it with School of Divination Wizard's Portent to possibly force a failed saving throw and likely delete a BBEG.
Ever heard of the wish spell??? Yeah, problem solved. The wizard can just wish the Paladin out of existence.
It’s almost like the wish spell description address that....:
“For example, wishing that a villain were dead might propel you forward in time to a period when that villain is no longer alive, effectively removing you from the game.”
Problem solved indeed.
Not necessarily, if you word the spell right, it will work.
If the DM isn’t one of those people that make a wish go wrong no matter what.
Ever heard of the wish spell??? Yeah, problem solved. The wizard can just wish the Paladin out of existence.
It’s almost like the wish spell description address that....:
“For example, wishing that a villain were dead might propel you forward in time to a period when that villain is no longer alive, effectively removing you from the game.”
Problem solved indeed.
Not necessarily, if you word the spell right, it will work.
If the DM isn’t one of those people that make a wish go wrong no matter what.
I am going off your wording of “wish the paladin out of existence”.
Ever heard of the wish spell??? Yeah, problem solved. The wizard can just wish the Paladin out of existence.
It’s almost like the wish spell description address that....:
“For example, wishing that a villain were dead might propel you forward in time to a period when that villain is no longer alive, effectively removing you from the game.”
Problem solved indeed.
Not necessarily, if you word the spell right, it will work.
If the DM isn’t one of those people that make a wish go wrong no matter what.
I am going off your wording of “wish the paladin out of existence”.
for my response.
"The GM has great latitude in ruling what occurs in such an instance; the greater the wish, the greater the likelihood that something goes wrong. This spell might simply fail, the effect you desire might only be partly achieved, or you might suffer some unforeseen consequence as a result of how you worded the wish."
This is from wish. The DM can say the spell fails.
Ever heard of the wish spell??? Yeah, problem solved. The wizard can just wish the Paladin out of existence.
It’s almost like the wish spell description address that....:
“For example, wishing that a villain were dead might propel you forward in time to a period when that villain is no longer alive, effectively removing you from the game.”
Problem solved indeed.
Not necessarily, if you word the spell right, it will work.
If the DM isn’t one of those people that make a wish go wrong no matter what.
I am going off your wording of “wish the paladin out of existence”.
for my response.
"The GM has great latitude in ruling what occurs in such an instance; the greater the wish, the greater the likelihood that something goes wrong. This spell might simply fail, the effect you desire might only be partly achieved, or you might suffer some unforeseen consequence as a result of how you worded the wish."
This is from wish. The DM can say the spell fails.
Yes, I know that. You don’t have to site evidence from the book I’ve practically memorized.
I believe there's a rules paradox involving transformed creatures and disintegrate (most notably level 20 Circle of the Moon Druids) where a creature simultaneously reverts to its true form and gets turned to dust from being reduced to 0 hit points. A similar instance can be found in some of the power word spells, with a special focus on power word: kill.
Using the former spell, you can pair it with School of Divination Wizard's Portent to possibly force a failed saving throw and likely delete a BBEG.
There is a sage advice and errata on that very topic that when a shapechanged or polymophed creature hits 0 they do not turn to dust, just revert to their other form and the remaining HP spills over to the other form. Now if that form then goes to 0 with the remaining disintegrate amount then yes they turn to dust. There was HUGE debate on this on ENWorld a while ago and was not settled until the sage advice and errata came out.
I see the change. It used to say when a creature is reduced to 0 HP, but now it says when the creature is left with 0. A polymorphed PC turned into a tortoise won't just get dusted anymore. Thanks for the reminder!
I have only used this build once in a one shot and have never found a GM that would use it in an actual campaign because it's rather game breaking. That being said it does have some severe downsides, as well as some fun role play opportunities built in.
Devine Soul Sorcerer 9/Warlock 9 (any subclass but I prefer the Hexblade because of the Hex Warrior feature.)/ 2 levels in any class. Needs the Greater Restoration spell and at least one healing spell from the Sorcerer, the Pact of the Tome and Aspect of the Moon eldritch invocation* from the Warlock. Basically, it lets you store extra spell slots indefinitely. Stop taking long rests and instead take multiple short rests; using the Greater Restoration spell to remove the level of exhaustion you will get from not taking long rests. Then convert sorcery points onto spell slots, convert warlock spell slots into sorcery points and take short rests to restore your warlock spell slots. Rinse and repeat.
Upsides:
Has potentially hundreds of spell slots.
Has access to the spell lists of the Sorcerer, Cleric and Warlock classes.
Downsides:
Only has up to 5 th level spell slots which can make some encounters difficult.
Has a substantial daily gold requirement in spell components.
Needs to use spells to heal because your health and hit dice aren’t restored by long rests.
As for role playing opportunities I would play the extra magic and use of the Grater Restoration spell as an addiction, the spell components for Greater Restoration could be stolen or you could run out and have to find more, also you are basically stealing and hoarding magic from your Warlock Patron and it could get angry and start sending things after you.
*It doesn’t technically need the Pact of the Tome and Aspect of the Moon eldritch invocation. It’s mostly there so the GM can’t say that the character goes crazy from lack of sleep.
Devine Soul Sorcerer 9/Warlock 9 (any subclass but I prefer the Hexblade because of the Hex Warrior feature.)/ 2 levels in any class. Needs the Greater Restoration spell and at least one healing spell from the Sorcerer, the Pact of the Tome and Aspect of the Moon eldritch invocation* from the Warlock. Basically, it lets you store extra spell slots indefinitely. Stop taking long rests and instead take multiple short rests; using the Greater Restoration spell to remove the level of exhaustion you will get from not taking long rests. Then convert sorcery points onto spell slots, convert warlock spell slots into sorcery points and take short rests to restore your warlock spell slots. Rinse and repeat.
I remember coffeelock. I did something similar, but with a Life Cleric 1/Druid 1 (or Ranger 2). The berries from goodberry last 24 hours, so it's possible to have all the healing a party would need in a belt pouch while you use your long-rest-refreshed spell slots for other things.
Coffeelock has an issue when the DM decides to not throw an encounter at the party for a period of time and says "Alright everyone, you all benefit from a long rest!" All that effort to build up your slots ends up for naught.
Best I ever heard of for a super-amazing, single target, what-shouldn't-this-kill Nova round, was an Assassin Rogue 3/Paladin 2/Fighter 2/Swords Bard 12.
Best I ever heard of for a super-amazing, single target, what-shouldn't-this-kill Nova round, was an Assassin Rogue 3/Paladin 2/Fighter 2/Swords Bard 12.
Enlighten us, how does this work? I recall a paladin2/BM fighter5/sorcererX lead with hold person and proceed to pound it in with Action Surge, crit smites using Great Weapon Master's bonus action attack with a greatsword and topping each attack with a superiority die.
Best I ever heard of for a super-amazing, single target, what-shouldn't-this-kill Nova round, was an Assassin Rogue 3/Paladin 2/Fighter 2/Swords Bard 12.
Enlighten us, how does this work? I recall a paladin2/BM fighter5/sorcererX lead with hold person and proceed to pound it in with Action Surge, crit smites using Great Weapon Master's bonus action attack with a greatsword and topping each attack with a superiority die.
It has something to do with the Assassinate ability. Get the drop on your target, get advantage on attack rolls for that round, and all hits are critical hits, so all dice rolled are doubled. 4 (extra attack+action surge) sneak attacking smites using 4th level spell slots is a ton of dice to be rolling for damage, plus it was supposed to be BattleMaster 3, not fighter 2, so you got a BattleMaster die mixed in there, as well as some swords bard inspiration die. I don't think they counted any potential poison on the weapon (prisoner's kit), and I forget what feats were taken.
The build is on YouTube, by Treantmonk's Temple (though another person made it), if you want to search for it - it might say something like "1000 damage build" in the title.
Personally, I would consider going Paladin 6 and Divine Soul Sorcerer 8 instead of Paladin2 and Swords12; while you lose out on a lot of bardic features and 7th level spell slot, you would still have extra attack, one favored by the gods attack roll bonus to help a hit, and could possibly quicken a booming blade for a 5th critical smiting attack...
You have static AC of 21, lowest save is +5, and you have Counterspell, Shield, Absorb Elements for defense.
You have smites for damage and of course spells. You can summon animate objects and deal average 45 points of damage just from your BA while you smite with your action.
For utility you have the entire cleric list to pick from so you have enhance ability, guidance, etc....
Basically it fulfills just about any role in a party from blaster to front line to controller to face.
I did something like this with a Strength-based paladin2/life cleric1/ranger2/sorcererX. A previous night's worth of rearranged 1st and 2nd level cleric-boosted goodberry provided a ton of healing, high AC from plate+shield+defenseFS and shield, booming blade+smite with action, bonus action and reaction with Twinned/Quickened Spell MMs and PAM+WC with a spear, and finally way too many 1st level slots from Font of Magic.
I did something like this with a Strength-based paladin2/life cleric1/ranger2/sorcererX. A previous night's worth of rearranged 1st and 2nd level cleric-boosted goodberry provided a ton of healing, high AC from plate+shield+defenseFS and shield, booming blade+smite with action, bonus action and reaction with Twinned/Quickened Spell MMs and PAM+WC with a spear, and finally way too many 1st level slots from Font of Magic.
I think a level 20 Wizard could quite easily beat a level 20 Paladin.
Level 20 oath of the ancients have resistance to magic making spells all do half damage, huge bonuses to their saving throws, magic weapon (which you can cast as a bonus action), decent spells, high AC's my (5th level one has a ac of 21 defensive fighting style + shield + plate armor), teleportation options, dispel magic, cleansing touch, AND the elder champion feature.
Yeah it would heavily depend on who went first as the wizard could Maze the paladin away and then pull the simulacrum/wish combo to get a second wizard to help out.
Maze is amazing. If forces and Intelligence check, so Aura of Protection has no use against it.
However, there is one little caveat: minotaurs automatically succeed against it. Suddenly, the minotaur race, the one that gets a lot of flak for being too natural-weapon-focused, can just say "nah."
Now, this build violates the rule about Bonus Action spells, however, I always ignore that rule as a DM. If your DM does the same thing, then the build is:
Take the Metamagic Adept Feat from Tasha's Cauldron, take quickened spell.
Here's the fun part.
Cast prismatic wall in a sphere above them. Then, as a quickened spell, cast reverse gravity. Then, Action Surge and cast sunburst. Including fall damage, this does 222d6, + another 8 if wild magic surge casts fireball. 230d6 damage, averaging 805, and maxing 1380. However, all of those spells are AoE, so you can hit multiple targets. As well as all that damage, there is the chance of prismatic wall making them restrained, petrified, and blinded, and teleported to a different plane of existence. I think this is better than everything else here that I've seen, though it is technically illegal.
One player I've seen themed their sorcerer off of a djinni, leading with a quickened whirlwind and moving it with his action to wreak havoc. On following turns he'd quicken chain lightning or thunderwave, depending on if every enemy was caught in the vortex or not, then run over whoever was on the ground with the action again!
It’s almost like the wish spell description address that....:
“For example, wishing that a villain were dead might propel you forward in time to a period when that villain is no longer alive, effectively removing you from the game.”
Problem solved indeed.
Blank
I believe there's a rules paradox involving transformed creatures and disintegrate (most notably level 20 Circle of the Moon Druids) where a creature simultaneously reverts to its true form and gets turned to dust from being reduced to 0 hit points. A similar instance can be found in some of the power word spells, with a special focus on power word: kill.
Using the former spell, you can pair it with School of Divination Wizard's Portent to possibly force a failed saving throw and likely delete a BBEG.
Not necessarily, if you word the spell right, it will work.
If the DM isn’t one of those people that make a wish go wrong no matter what.
I am going off your wording of “wish the paladin out of existence”.
for my response.
Blank
"The GM has great latitude in ruling what occurs in such an instance; the greater the wish, the greater the likelihood that something goes wrong. This spell might simply fail, the effect you desire might only be partly achieved, or you might suffer some unforeseen consequence as a result of how you worded the wish."
This is from wish. The DM can say the spell fails.
Yes, I know that. You don’t have to site evidence from the book I’ve practically memorized.
There is a sage advice and errata on that very topic that when a shapechanged or polymophed creature hits 0 they do not turn to dust, just revert to their other form and the remaining HP spills over to the other form. Now if that form then goes to 0 with the remaining disintegrate amount then yes they turn to dust. There was HUGE debate on this on ENWorld a while ago and was not settled until the sage advice and errata came out.
I see the change. It used to say when a creature is reduced to 0 HP, but now it says when the creature is left with 0. A polymorphed PC turned into a tortoise won't just get dusted anymore. Thanks for the reminder!
I have only used this build once in a one shot and have never found a GM that would use it in an actual campaign because it's rather game breaking. That being said it does have some severe downsides, as well as some fun role play opportunities built in.
Devine Soul Sorcerer 9/Warlock 9 (any subclass but I prefer the Hexblade because of the Hex Warrior feature.)/ 2 levels in any class. Needs the Greater Restoration spell and at least one healing spell from the Sorcerer, the Pact of the Tome and Aspect of the Moon eldritch invocation* from the Warlock. Basically, it lets you store extra spell slots indefinitely. Stop taking long rests and instead take multiple short rests; using the Greater Restoration spell to remove the level of exhaustion you will get from not taking long rests. Then convert sorcery points onto spell slots, convert warlock spell slots into sorcery points and take short rests to restore your warlock spell slots. Rinse and repeat.
Upsides:
Downsides:
As for role playing opportunities I would play the extra magic and use of the Grater Restoration spell as an addiction, the spell components for Greater Restoration could be stolen or you could run out and have to find more, also you are basically stealing and hoarding magic from your Warlock Patron and it could get angry and start sending things after you.
*It doesn’t technically need the Pact of the Tome and Aspect of the Moon eldritch invocation. It’s mostly there so the GM can’t say that the character goes crazy from lack of sleep.
Edit: Spelling, grammar and a few changes.
I remember coffeelock. I did something similar, but with a Life Cleric 1/Druid 1 (or Ranger 2). The berries from goodberry last 24 hours, so it's possible to have all the healing a party would need in a belt pouch while you use your long-rest-refreshed spell slots for other things.
Coffeelock has an issue when the DM decides to not throw an encounter at the party for a period of time and says "Alright everyone, you all benefit from a long rest!" All that effort to build up your slots ends up for naught.
Best I ever heard of for a super-amazing, single target, what-shouldn't-this-kill Nova round, was an Assassin Rogue 3/Paladin 2/Fighter 2/Swords Bard 12.
Enlighten us, how does this work? I recall a paladin2/BM fighter5/sorcererX lead with hold person and proceed to pound it in with Action Surge, crit smites using Great Weapon Master's bonus action attack with a greatsword and topping each attack with a superiority die.
It has something to do with the Assassinate ability. Get the drop on your target, get advantage on attack rolls for that round, and all hits are critical hits, so all dice rolled are doubled. 4 (extra attack+action surge) sneak attacking smites using 4th level spell slots is a ton of dice to be rolling for damage, plus it was supposed to be BattleMaster 3, not fighter 2, so you got a BattleMaster die mixed in there, as well as some swords bard inspiration die. I don't think they counted any potential poison on the weapon (prisoner's kit), and I forget what feats were taken.
The build is on YouTube, by Treantmonk's Temple (though another person made it), if you want to search for it - it might say something like "1000 damage build" in the title.
Personally, I would consider going Paladin 6 and Divine Soul Sorcerer 8 instead of Paladin2 and Swords12; while you lose out on a lot of bardic features and 7th level spell slot, you would still have extra attack, one favored by the gods attack roll bonus to help a hit, and could possibly quicken a booming blade for a 5th critical smiting attack...
I like the Paladin/Sorcerer/Warlock build myself.
https://www.dndbeyond.com/profile/OptimusGrimus/characters/28913993
You have static AC of 21, lowest save is +5, and you have Counterspell, Shield, Absorb Elements for defense.
You have smites for damage and of course spells. You can summon animate objects and deal average 45 points of damage just from your BA while you smite with your action.
For utility you have the entire cleric list to pick from so you have enhance ability, guidance, etc....
Basically it fulfills just about any role in a party from blaster to front line to controller to face.
I did something like this with a Strength-based paladin2/life cleric1/ranger2/sorcererX. A previous night's worth of rearranged 1st and 2nd level cleric-boosted goodberry provided a ton of healing, high AC from plate+shield+defenseFS and shield, booming blade+smite with action, bonus action and reaction with Twinned/Quickened Spell MMs and PAM+WC with a spear, and finally way too many 1st level slots from Font of Magic.
Love this one too as you get the mass heals
Yeah it would heavily depend on who went first as the wizard could Maze the paladin away and then pull the simulacrum/wish combo to get a second wizard to help out.
Overall it would be pretty close!
Maze is amazing. If forces and Intelligence check, so Aura of Protection has no use against it.
However, there is one little caveat: minotaurs automatically succeed against it. Suddenly, the minotaur race, the one that gets a lot of flak for being too natural-weapon-focused, can just say "nah."
Now, this build violates the rule about Bonus Action spells, however, I always ignore that rule as a DM. If your DM does the same thing, then the build is:
Abjuration Wizard 17/Fighter 2/ Wild Magic Sorceror 1
Take the Metamagic Adept Feat from Tasha's Cauldron, take quickened spell.
Here's the fun part.
Cast prismatic wall in a sphere above them. Then, as a quickened spell, cast reverse gravity. Then, Action Surge and cast sunburst. Including fall damage, this does 222d6, + another 8 if wild magic surge casts fireball. 230d6 damage, averaging 805, and maxing 1380. However, all of those spells are AoE, so you can hit multiple targets. As well as all that damage, there is the chance of prismatic wall making them restrained, petrified, and blinded, and teleported to a different plane of existence. I think this is better than everything else here that I've seen, though it is technically illegal.
One player I've seen themed their sorcerer off of a djinni, leading with a quickened whirlwind and moving it with his action to wreak havoc. On following turns he'd quicken chain lightning or thunderwave, depending on if every enemy was caught in the vortex or not, then run over whoever was on the ground with the action again!