Even with super OP stats and a homebrew class, it would still get walked by a bear totem barbarian with sentinel, circle of the moon druid, or basically any wizard (invulnerability is a sick spell). And that's without having 4 attributes at 20 which isn't reasonable anyway.
You can't take any feat, including Resilient, more than once unless it says you can.
Secondly, You have a .01% chance to roll 3 18's... let alone 4.
Highest at least
One
Two
Three
18
9.34%
0.38%
0.01%
17
30.07%
4.03%
0.34%
16
56.76%
17.85%
3.26%
15
79.40%
42.16%
14.13%
14
92.80%
69.01%
36.29%
Trying to show off an OP character with statistical analogies is just a little pointless. YES! You can build to same character with a .001% chance of success! This line of reasoning is why most DM's have switched to a Point Buy or Standard array. That is also why OP builds are based off of feats and abilities and not ability scores.
OP Character, I rolled all 18's for my ability scores. +1 to all stats for human and my DM let me find ALL the manuals for each stat and a belt of Storm giant strength and a sword with Wishes in it at Level 1!
OP Build vs OP Campaign. Like I said, Interesting Character. But not an OP Build.
Any race 20th level battlecaster, any specialty. Heavy Armor Mastery feat, plate armor, physical shield, Defensive Duelist feat, rapier. Prof bonus now +6, base AC 20. With the DD feat, AC 26, almost impossible to hit. Add other stuff like haste, shield of faith, etc, even better for you.
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Rogue Shadow, the DM (and occasional) PC with schemes of inventive thinking
V human fighter, take Alert feat. get two 18s and two 15s (the other two don't matter) Make 19 Dex, and 19 Int, wis or cha; the other two 15 each. Go fighter 8 levels (archetype doesn't matter), then (not in this order): 4 lvls ranger, go gloom stalker; 4 lvls rogue, go swashbuckler; 4 lvls wizard, go chronurgy. Put all ASIs into maxing dex, int, wis, and cha to 20 each. You should have a character with a +25 to initiative. Get epic boons past lvl 20, max those four to 30 each, you get an unreal +45 to initiative. Crazy, right? You'll almost never be surprised ever again, and you'll always top the initiative list in every encounter. Insane.
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Rogue Shadow, the DM (and occasional) PC with schemes of inventive thinking
that isn't very fun for your characters. they play and play and play but never get to play those last spells and abilities.
I have been playing for a long time but have never gotten to lvl 20 so my gm is playing a one off next week as a bonus game and letting us be lvl 20. I am so excited. you should let your players get to 20 sometime.
I'd prefer if we steered away from the "rolled X 18s" bit, as that's not as applicable to most forms of PC builds that you can expect; actually rolling them in front of a DM is highly unlikely, AL flat-out disallows rolled stats and most setups are just as fine with point-buy, especially with TCoE's custom lineage rules (looking at you, mountain dwarves and half-elves). I'd also avoid including magic items from these, as they are heavily adventure- and/or DM-dependant.
I'd say one of my strongest builds was a Dex-based Devotion Paladin X/Dragon Sorcerer 1: 15/13/13/13/10/9 standard human. Unarmored AC was 18 with a shield and, between bless and Channel Divinity, melee to-hit bonus was +8 to 11. Fire bolt covered fliers without ammo limits and let us force melee enemies to approach us or flee. 14 Strength and being unarmored let me carry more loot from lairs (DM was very picky about details like carrying loads, especially with our min-maxed Thief Rogue). This was at level 4.
I'd prefer if we steered away from the "rolled three or more 18s" bit, as that's not as applicable to most forms of PC builds that you can expect; actually rolling them in front of a DM is highly unlikely, AL flat-out disallows rolled stats and most setups are just as fine with point-buy, especially with TCoE's custom lineage rules (looking at you, mountain dwarves and half-elves). I'd also avoid including magic items from these, as they are heavily adventure- and/or DM-dependant.
I'd say one of my strongest builds was a Dex-based Devotion Paladin X/Dragon Sorcerer 1: 15/13/13/13/10/9 standard human. Unarmored AC was 18 with a shield and, between bless and Channel Divinity, melee to-hit bonus was +8 to 11. Fire bolt covered fliers without ammo limits and let us force melee enemies to approach us or flee. 14 Strength and being unarmored let me carry more loot from lairs (DM was very picky about details like carrying loads, especially with our min-maxed Thief Rogue). This was at level 3.
How are you even multiclassed with a 9 CHA? I see the 15 str (which the numbers are ....interesting) I'm very confused by this.
Those were the numbers I went with, not their distribution. My character's point-buy stats were 13/15/13/9/10/13. Those get bumped up to 14/16/14/10/11/14 for being a human. Sorry for the confusion.
All the wizard needs is the Shield spell, Invulnerability spell, and a basic blasting spell/cantrip, and they win.
Paladins multiclassed can deal much more damage. Especially Battlemaster Fighters 12, Heroism Paladin 5, and Zealot Barbarian 3
That is not true, at all. A wizard with even 20 dexterity, mage armor, and shield as a spell mastery would have an ac of 23. A vengeance paladin can get +11 and advantage, which averages +5, for a 16. they have to roll a 7 or higher to hit. And they have extra attack, so the wizard has to choose which attack to take. With divine smite, the wizard dies within 3 rounds. His spells aren't strong enough to deal enough damage for him to finish him off with high level magic.
And as for invulnerability, that lasts 10 minutes that the paladin can waste dancing around, taking direct hits. Then he heals himself with lay on hands. the wizard will run out of spell slots before the paladin loses a single hit point.
The paladin will run out of both healing & hp before the wizard runs out of invulnerability. 10 minutes is 100 rounds and most builds won't be able to deal with 100 rounds of pure blasting.
It is possible to make a build to out-regen any damage the wizard does, but that's a very specific build that's kind of terrible at anything else resulting in the issue of what to do after Invulnerably. Also the wizard can just do Wish + Simulacrum instead of Invulnerability which allows you to do Forcecage + Sickening Radiance, most people call this cheating but... well yeah it's kind of cheating.
Edit: Also- this is getting sort of off-topic. When most people are discussing overpowered builds, normally they mean in the context of... normal D&D play. Not player vs player duels, since those always tend to be unfair with stuff like the above existing.
Those were the numbers I went with, not their distribution. My character's point-buy stats were 13/15/13/9/10/13. Those get bumped up to 14/16/14/10/11/14 for being a human. Sorry for the confusion.
If a wizard has enough time it is by far the most broken class. Due to the fact that true polymorph is the most broken spell. Want the ultimate cheese?
-step one make a wizard and make it to level 17.
-step 2, encounter a Red dragon wyrmling and a ghost... you dont have to beat it, you just have to encounter it
-step 3 find a decent sized rock
-step 4 true polymorph the rock into a red dragon wyrmling (and treat it well)
-step 5 hold concentration for a hour so the spell becomes PERMENANT
-step 6 true polymorph yourself into a ghost and horrifying visage it (age it) until it is an ancient red dragon
-step 7 rinse and repeat and you have an "infinite" army of red dragons. (you can make them brass dragons so then they can shape change to look like normal people)
-step 8 after this is done you can proceed to true polymorph them into anything with a cr of 24 or less (so you could have an "airforce" of dragons, "navy" of krakens, and "army" of Pit fiends.
-step 9, walk up to any kingdom literally ANY kingdom, even a kingdom of 1000 lvl 20 palidans and just watch as your "INFINITE" dragons burn the city and everything they loved to the ground
I'd be a bit skeptical about that strategy; I'd certainly count scaring the bejesus out of a dragon wyrmling as a hostile action, and how long does it take for a dragon to die of old age, again?
If a spellcaster were to find out about the true nature of these manufactured dragons, it becomes startlingly easy to thwart: dispel magic targets the spell effect of true polymorph, not the dragons themselves, so their legendary saves will not protect them. A typical priest has that spell prepared regularly, a mage can likely prepare it, and some locations are teeming with adventurers, like Faerûn's Sword Coast's Waterdeep. What's more, dragons tend to exert dominance over their territories once they outgrow being wyrmlings, so it wouldn't be long before a scout catches wind of one in the area and reports it to a local authority.
If we're talking about most OP builds in the 3.5 sense of the word, Lung Wang is pretty close. Bear in mind though that he's a white-room build. No DM would possibly allow him in a real game
If we're talking about most OP builds in the 3.5 sense of the word, Lung Wang is pretty close. Bear in mind though that he's a white-room build. No DM would possibly allow him in a real game
I would allow it, but getting him to that point alive is another story entirely! Definitely one for the books! 😆
Half-orc Zelot barbarian. My friend tested it against the Tarasqu (or however you spell it) he was 13th level and killed it. (He did die as well though). To be fair, he did have a +3 great axe but that was it.
Even with super OP stats and a homebrew class, it would still get walked by a bear totem barbarian with sentinel, circle of the moon druid, or basically any wizard (invulnerability is a sick spell). And that's without having 4 attributes at 20 which isn't reasonable anyway.
Ok, Sure. Its possible.
But First, you cant take Resilient twice.
Trying to show off an OP character with statistical analogies is just a little pointless. YES! You can build to same character with a .001% chance of success! This line of reasoning is why most DM's have switched to a Point Buy or Standard array. That is also why OP builds are based off of feats and abilities and not ability scores.
OP Character, I rolled all 18's for my ability scores. +1 to all stats for human and my DM let me find ALL the manuals for each stat and a belt of Storm giant strength and a sword with Wishes in it at Level 1!
OP Build vs OP Campaign. Like I said, Interesting Character. But not an OP Build.
on battlecaster again, I just thought of this:
Any race 20th level battlecaster, any specialty. Heavy Armor Mastery feat, plate armor, physical shield, Defensive Duelist feat, rapier. Prof bonus now +6, base AC 20. With the DD feat, AC 26, almost impossible to hit. Add other stuff like haste, shield of faith, etc, even better for you.
Rogue Shadow, the DM (and occasional) PC with schemes of inventive thinking
Sorc-lock.
I’ve seen ‘em do things.
here is another crazy one
V human fighter, take Alert feat. get two 18s and two 15s (the other two don't matter) Make 19 Dex, and 19 Int, wis or cha; the other two 15 each. Go fighter 8 levels (archetype doesn't matter), then (not in this order): 4 lvls ranger, go gloom stalker; 4 lvls rogue, go swashbuckler; 4 lvls wizard, go chronurgy. Put all ASIs into maxing dex, int, wis, and cha to 20 each. You should have a character with a +25 to initiative. Get epic boons past lvl 20, max those four to 30 each, you get an unreal +45 to initiative. Crazy, right? You'll almost never be surprised ever again, and you'll always top the initiative list in every encounter. Insane.
Rogue Shadow, the DM (and occasional) PC with schemes of inventive thinking
that isn't very fun for your characters. they play and play and play but never get to play those last spells and abilities.
I have been playing for a long time but have never gotten to lvl 20 so my gm is playing a one off next week as a bonus game and letting us be lvl 20. I am so excited. you should let your players get to 20 sometime.
I'd prefer if we steered away from the "rolled X 18s" bit, as that's not as applicable to most forms of PC builds that you can expect; actually rolling them in front of a DM is highly unlikely, AL flat-out disallows rolled stats and most setups are just as fine with point-buy, especially with TCoE's custom lineage rules (looking at you, mountain dwarves and half-elves). I'd also avoid including magic items from these, as they are heavily adventure- and/or DM-dependant.
I'd say one of my strongest builds was a Dex-based Devotion Paladin X/Dragon Sorcerer 1: 15/13/13/13/10/9 standard human. Unarmored AC was 18 with a shield and, between bless and Channel Divinity, melee to-hit bonus was +8 to 11. Fire bolt covered fliers without ammo limits and let us force melee enemies to approach us or flee. 14 Strength and being unarmored let me carry more loot from lairs (DM was very picky about details like carrying loads, especially with our min-maxed Thief Rogue). This was at level 4.
How are you even multiclassed with a 9 CHA? I see the 15 str (which the numbers are ....interesting) I'm very confused by this.
Those were the numbers I went with, not their distribution. My character's point-buy stats were 13/15/13/9/10/13. Those get bumped up to 14/16/14/10/11/14 for being a human. Sorry for the confusion.
That is not true, at all. A wizard with even 20 dexterity, mage armor, and shield as a spell mastery would have an ac of 23. A vengeance paladin can get +11 and advantage, which averages +5, for a 16. they have to roll a 7 or higher to hit. And they have extra attack, so the wizard has to choose which attack to take. With divine smite, the wizard dies within 3 rounds. His spells aren't strong enough to deal enough damage for him to finish him off with high level magic.
And as for invulnerability, that lasts 10 minutes that the paladin can waste dancing around, taking direct hits. Then he heals himself with lay on hands. the wizard will run out of spell slots before the paladin loses a single hit point.
The paladin will run out of both healing & hp before the wizard runs out of invulnerability. 10 minutes is 100 rounds and most builds won't be able to deal with 100 rounds of pure blasting.
It is possible to make a build to out-regen any damage the wizard does, but that's a very specific build that's kind of terrible at anything else resulting in the issue of what to do after Invulnerably. Also the wizard can just do Wish + Simulacrum instead of Invulnerability which allows you to do Forcecage + Sickening Radiance, most people call this cheating but... well yeah it's kind of cheating.
Edit: Also- this is getting sort of off-topic. When most people are discussing overpowered builds, normally they mean in the context of... normal D&D play. Not player vs player duels, since those always tend to be unfair with stuff like the above existing.
if I edit a message, most of the time it's because of grammar. The rest of the time I'll put "Edit:" at the bottom.
ahhh ok thanks that makes way more sense.
A caster with flight or some other means of damage avoidance, polymorph, and six spell slots wins. Kite and polymorph until the other guy fails.
If a wizard has enough time it is by far the most broken class. Due to the fact that true polymorph is the most broken spell. Want the ultimate cheese?
-step one make a wizard and make it to level 17.
-step 2, encounter a Red dragon wyrmling and a ghost... you dont have to beat it, you just have to encounter it
-step 3 find a decent sized rock
-step 4 true polymorph the rock into a red dragon wyrmling (and treat it well)
-step 5 hold concentration for a hour so the spell becomes PERMENANT
-step 6 true polymorph yourself into a ghost and horrifying visage it (age it) until it is an ancient red dragon
-step 7 rinse and repeat and you have an "infinite" army of red dragons. (you can make them brass dragons so then they can shape change to look like normal people)
-step 8 after this is done you can proceed to true polymorph them into anything with a cr of 24 or less (so you could have an "airforce" of dragons, "navy" of krakens, and "army" of Pit fiends.
-step 9, walk up to any kingdom literally ANY kingdom, even a kingdom of 1000 lvl 20 palidans and just watch as your "INFINITE" dragons burn the city and everything they loved to the ground
I'd be a bit skeptical about that strategy; I'd certainly count scaring the bejesus out of a dragon wyrmling as a hostile action, and how long does it take for a dragon to die of old age, again?
If a spellcaster were to find out about the true nature of these manufactured dragons, it becomes startlingly easy to thwart: dispel magic targets the spell effect of true polymorph, not the dragons themselves, so their legendary saves will not protect them. A typical priest has that spell prepared regularly, a mage can likely prepare it, and some locations are teeming with adventurers, like Faerûn's Sword Coast's Waterdeep. What's more, dragons tend to exert dominance over their territories once they outgrow being wyrmlings, so it wouldn't be long before a scout catches wind of one in the area and reports it to a local authority.
If we're talking about most OP builds in the 3.5 sense of the word, Lung Wang is pretty close. Bear in mind though that he's a white-room build. No DM would possibly allow him in a real game
I would allow it, but getting him to that point alive is another story entirely! Definitely one for the books! 😆
Half-orc Zelot barbarian. My friend tested it against the Tarasqu (or however you spell it) he was 13th level and killed it. (He did die as well though). To be fair, he did have a +3 great axe but that was it.
Ever heard of the wish spell??? Yeah, problem solved.
The wizard can just wish the Paladin out of existence.