The Clerik can also block a narrow passage by useing sanctuarry and dodge, i made my DM cry with that combo.
A bit off topic, but I did something similar with a paladin/ranger/life cleric/dragon sorcerer; heavy armor + shield using Dodge and shield, and rearranging higher leveled slots into lower ones (2 level 3s make 3 level 1 slots with Font of Magic). This character was higher level, 8th I believe.
My DM asked me how to beat it because he was having difficulty challenging our group, so I told him to grapple my character and pull it out of the way. Next encounter, he did that, and all the lightly-armored characters' players began to freak out. It was great. 😆
1. (Parties fight two or three times a day.) 2. (If every time they fight, having a tank is presumed to be contingent on the cleric having a second level slot for mirror image, a first level slot for shield of faith, and concentration maintained on the shield, and the first two turns of each combat used to set up)... 3.(well, I don’t think that cleric would be a jerk to say “no, that’s ridiculous, just put on some armor and your AC is as good as mine!”) 4. (No room to ever cast hold person, spiritual weapon, hardly room to heal... a cleric just has too much important stuff to do to be screwing around wasting spells to prevent themselves being hit.)
5.Just put on some better armor, take crossbow Expert before sharpshooter, and multiclass ranger with battle master fighter to be a melee range bow user who catches up on feats.
1. Maybe. Not for sure. Sometimes its 0 fights sometimes its 7.
2. It is only contingent on the cleric having a shield. Ranger AC as it stands 15. Cleric AC 17.
3. There is no telling when or if they will be able to get better armor. The cleric hiding behind others is being a jerk not the other way around. The math easily shows the cleric is better at avoiding hits. With or without buff spells.
4. The cleric can do what it wants with its spells. This specific cleric is still a better option for a front line when compared to this ranger.
5. All of which the OP has stated they do not want to do. They have spoken to the DM and the players and nothing has changed. This is a bad position to be in and you seem to agree with the other players with a suck it up buttercup mentality.
The thread was started to ask “how can this ranger be a tank”? I have provided several alternatives, one of which even involves remaining a bow user. Your contribution has been “don’t.”
One of us is indeed in a bad position. I’d suggest it’s the one who refuses to engage with the premise of the thread.
Just want to point out that now everyone is saying about the Cleric the opposite of what they were saying about the Ranger. By the same token that the Ranger should not have to completely redo their build on the fly to become a tank they didn't want to, the same is also true of the Cleric. Looking at the Cleric's loadout, it's pretty obvious they never intended to be a front-liner. All of their spells are control spells in one way or another. It's really just the inherent features to the Trickery Domain that everybody seems to be running away with.
I completely agree that with regards to this party, the Cleric is better suited to tanking than the Ranger. But it's pretty clear that neither of them want to fill that role. The Cleric simply has better innate tools to handle it if forced, instead of the Ranger. Frankly, either one of the players needs to roll a second character to become the party meatshield, or the DM needs to do it.
The thread was started to ask “how can this ranger be a tank”? I have provided several alternatives, one of which even involves remaining a bow user. Your contribution has been “don’t.”
One of us is indeed in a bad position. I’d suggest it’s the one who refuses to engage with the premise of the thread.
The issue provided in the opening post is that the OP's character is being forced into an undesired role. OP is considering options to fill it, but OP would rather play the character as originally intended, as a ranged attacking ranger, not a tank.
My advice is to not bend to the others' wills. If the game is not going to be fun, then it has lost its primary purpose. Let everyone learn how about how proper positioning works and how to get out of undesirable situations. Letting them walk all over you teaches them that they can do whatever they want to you without consequence.
While I totally agree the cleric is the better tank and it's awful to force the ranger to do it, let me point out again that the ideas of "tank" and "progression" don't really exist in D&D. No one has to do it. You'll be fine without a frontline fighter. It might be a bit harder now and then, but it's okay!
The Cleric can temporarily tank by choosing new spells each morning, a key feature of Clerics that is inherent to their class and makes them adaptable.
The ranger can tank by permanently changing their character by taking feats and spending gold to get new equipment.
Both are possible, but one is much more reasonable.
/If/ the party needs a tank they could get the Cleric to take over for now and the DM can write in an NPC or something to join the party and fill the role.
/If/ the party needs a tank they could get the Cleric to take over for now and the DM can write in an NPC or something to join the party and fill the role.
I would agree, however, OP made it pretty clear that the other players don't see a problem, and if the other players don't see a problem the DM doesn't see a problem. So in the end OP will either be forced to go along with what everyone else wants, or to leave the group.
I'd still try one more time, if I were OP, to tell the rest of the group that I'd have a lot less fun with a character change. That's all the reason they should need not to bug them about it. (That said, I always game with friends or, rarely, LGS groups...if these are online randoms, you might have it a bit harder.)
from what OP has said, the DM has basically told them "oh, you just need to be flexible and learn to compromise" at this point i don't think they care if anyone's "having fun" because they want "roles" to be filled and they've chosen the ranger to fill that role they're either going to get what they want, OP's going to tell them off about being inconsiderate and they'll open their eyes to what's going on (which is unlikely) or OP is going to leave the group and find one that takes what they want to do with their characters into consideration
4 different options that fill your needs in different ways. First, a consideration on armor: Medium armor gets 14 or 15 + max 2 dex (max 3 with medium armor Master fear). Studded Leather armor gives 12 + dex mod, which is currently +3. Getting +1 dex at 4 equals the AC for Scale Mail AND breastplate, without buying expensive gear. If they want you to be the tank and get better gear, maybe they should help pay for it? Otherwise, medium armor is only better if you get MAM, especially once you get 20 dex. This leads to option 1.
Fighter 1 or 2. Fighter 1 can get defensive fighting style (+1 AC) and Second Wind as an emergency heal. Fighter 2 can get Action Surge that can be an emergency dodge during the same round that you equip a shield (or attack or anything else that uses an action). Solid complimentary options for your ranger without getting too far off the rails.
Rogue 2-3
Sneak attack to fill the void from hunter's mark at 1, Cunning Action for bonus action disengage when you get swarmed and need to escape (can be done early or late).
If going 3 levels, consider Swashbuckler (for when you pull your melee weapon to attack an enemy to get a mini disengage from them), arcane trickster (for Booming blade, mage hand, and perhaps something like mold earth or minor image that can have some defensive applications), or Mastermind for the bonus action help to couple with a main action dodge. This can be mixed with the fighter.
Monk- Kensai, 3 levels. Your AC with unarmored defense at ranger 4 monk 1 if you went +1 dex +1 wis with your AC would be 17. You could still hold your bow while dealing d4 damage with unarmed strikes and could use your ki for bonus action dodges. At 3 select a 1 hand weapon to draw for your melee kensai weapon to activate Agile Parry for +2 AC while making an unarmed strike (Ranger or Monk 5 would give you extra attack to make a normal weapon attack and an unarmed strike to activate Agile Parry. However, when you're not in melee, you can use your bonus action to deal an extra 1d4 damage on all of your attacks made that round and it stacks with hunters mark (but would conflict with it when you needed to cast or move HM). Works with rogue, but doesn't worth with defensive style from fighter, meaning that dip would have to include dueling fighting style to really make sense.
Druid- I was primarily thinking of using summons as meatshields with this thought, but most of the benefits from that with shepherd don't come online until 6th level, which is a bit more than I'd suggest unless you wanted to continue forward as a druid. The spell slot progression and totems could give some fine defensive and control options to compliment. However, you would be changing your character concept quite a bit.
Bonus option- offense is the best defense. Sharpshooter against low AC creatures almost ensures that they die. Killing creatures faster means fewer enemies to kill you.
Mobile gives you more speed to and the same mini disengage that swashbuckler has. Plus you can cross difficult terrain no problem.
Many of these options can be mixed and matched. The EK option for fighter would be another that was mentioned and works expand on the fighter benefits mentioned. Shield is a great spell for that as is Magic Missile. Booming Blade or Green Flame Blade give your melee attacks more punch. Just avoid any spells that use your intelligence to make attacks or force saves to avoid problems with your lower int (which is the same advice for the AT rogue).
Much of these tactics are designed for you to slow the ranks and retreat after an attack or two instead of hanging tough.
Finally, Dodge is your friend. With your 15 AC, a +5 attack will hit you on a 10 or better (55% of the time). Dodge forces those attacks to be made at Disadvantage meaning that they'd have to roll that 10 or better twice to succeed, which lowers that success rate to around 30% which is the equivalent of a +5 AC (25% reduction at 5% per AC). This means that you can keep stacking that dex to improve your AC and your offense, dodge when needed to tank, and benefit even more.
Disclaimer: I didn't check the feywanderer subclass to see if anything meshed with it. Consider the bonus actions and other limited resources when considering the advice.
A bit off topic, but I did something similar with a paladin/ranger/life cleric/dragon sorcerer; heavy armor + shield using Dodge and shield, and rearranging higher leveled slots into lower ones (2 level 3s make 3 level 1 slots with Font of Magic). This character was higher level, 8th I believe.
My DM asked me how to beat it because he was having difficulty challenging our group, so I told him to grapple my character and pull it out of the way. Next encounter, he did that, and all the lightly-armored characters' players began to freak out. It was great. 😆
1. Maybe. Not for sure. Sometimes its 0 fights sometimes its 7.
2. It is only contingent on the cleric having a shield. Ranger AC as it stands 15. Cleric AC 17.
3. There is no telling when or if they will be able to get better armor. The cleric hiding behind others is being a jerk not the other way around. The math easily shows the cleric is better at avoiding hits. With or without buff spells.
4. The cleric can do what it wants with its spells. This specific cleric is still a better option for a front line when compared to this ranger.
5. All of which the OP has stated they do not want to do. They have spoken to the DM and the players and nothing has changed. This is a bad position to be in and you seem to agree with the other players with a suck it up buttercup mentality.
The thread was started to ask “how can this ranger be a tank”? I have provided several alternatives, one of which even involves remaining a bow user. Your contribution has been “don’t.”
One of us is indeed in a bad position. I’d suggest it’s the one who refuses to engage with the premise of the thread.
dndbeyond.com forum tags
I'm going to make this way harder than it needs to be.
Just want to point out that now everyone is saying about the Cleric the opposite of what they were saying about the Ranger. By the same token that the Ranger should not have to completely redo their build on the fly to become a tank they didn't want to, the same is also true of the Cleric. Looking at the Cleric's loadout, it's pretty obvious they never intended to be a front-liner. All of their spells are control spells in one way or another. It's really just the inherent features to the Trickery Domain that everybody seems to be running away with.
I completely agree that with regards to this party, the Cleric is better suited to tanking than the Ranger. But it's pretty clear that neither of them want to fill that role. The Cleric simply has better innate tools to handle it if forced, instead of the Ranger. Frankly, either one of the players needs to roll a second character to become the party meatshield, or the DM needs to do it.
The issue provided in the opening post is that the OP's character is being forced into an undesired role. OP is considering options to fill it, but OP would rather play the character as originally intended, as a ranged attacking ranger, not a tank.
My advice is to not bend to the others' wills. If the game is not going to be fun, then it has lost its primary purpose. Let everyone learn how about how proper positioning works and how to get out of undesirable situations. Letting them walk all over you teaches them that they can do whatever they want to you without consequence.
While I totally agree the cleric is the better tank and it's awful to force the ranger to do it, let me point out again that the ideas of "tank" and "progression" don't really exist in D&D. No one has to do it. You'll be fine without a frontline fighter. It might be a bit harder now and then, but it's okay!
Wizard (Gandalf) of the Tolkien Club
The Cleric can temporarily tank by choosing new spells each morning, a key feature of Clerics that is inherent to their class and makes them adaptable.
The ranger can tank by permanently changing their character by taking feats and spending gold to get new equipment.
Both are possible, but one is much more reasonable.
/If/ the party needs a tank they could get the Cleric to take over for now and the DM can write in an NPC or something to join the party and fill the role.
I would agree, however, OP made it pretty clear that the other players don't see a problem, and if the other players don't see a problem the DM doesn't see a problem. So in the end OP will either be forced to go along with what everyone else wants, or to leave the group.
I'd still try one more time, if I were OP, to tell the rest of the group that I'd have a lot less fun with a character change. That's all the reason they should need not to bug them about it. (That said, I always game with friends or, rarely, LGS groups...if these are online randoms, you might have it a bit harder.)
Wizard (Gandalf) of the Tolkien Club
from what OP has said, the DM has basically told them "oh, you just need to be flexible and learn to compromise"
at this point i don't think they care if anyone's "having fun" because they want "roles" to be filled and they've chosen the ranger to fill that role
they're either going to get what they want, OP's going to tell them off about being inconsiderate and they'll open their eyes to what's going on (which is unlikely)
or OP is going to leave the group and find one that takes what they want to do with their characters into consideration
4 different options that fill your needs in different ways. First, a consideration on armor: Medium armor gets 14 or 15 + max 2 dex (max 3 with medium armor Master fear). Studded Leather armor gives 12 + dex mod, which is currently +3. Getting +1 dex at 4 equals the AC for Scale Mail AND breastplate, without buying expensive gear. If they want you to be the tank and get better gear, maybe they should help pay for it? Otherwise, medium armor is only better if you get MAM, especially once you get 20 dex. This leads to option 1.
Fighter 1 or 2. Fighter 1 can get defensive fighting style (+1 AC) and Second Wind as an emergency heal. Fighter 2 can get Action Surge that can be an emergency dodge during the same round that you equip a shield (or attack or anything else that uses an action). Solid complimentary options for your ranger without getting too far off the rails.
Rogue 2-3
Sneak attack to fill the void from hunter's mark at 1, Cunning Action for bonus action disengage when you get swarmed and need to escape (can be done early or late).
If going 3 levels, consider Swashbuckler (for when you pull your melee weapon to attack an enemy to get a mini disengage from them), arcane trickster (for Booming blade, mage hand, and perhaps something like mold earth or minor image that can have some defensive applications), or Mastermind for the bonus action help to couple with a main action dodge. This can be mixed with the fighter.
Monk- Kensai, 3 levels. Your AC with unarmored defense at ranger 4 monk 1 if you went +1 dex +1 wis with your AC would be 17. You could still hold your bow while dealing d4 damage with unarmed strikes and could use your ki for bonus action dodges. At 3 select a 1 hand weapon to draw for your melee kensai weapon to activate Agile Parry for +2 AC while making an unarmed strike (Ranger or Monk 5 would give you extra attack to make a normal weapon attack and an unarmed strike to activate Agile Parry. However, when you're not in melee, you can use your bonus action to deal an extra 1d4 damage on all of your attacks made that round and it stacks with hunters mark (but would conflict with it when you needed to cast or move HM). Works with rogue, but doesn't worth with defensive style from fighter, meaning that dip would have to include dueling fighting style to really make sense.
Druid- I was primarily thinking of using summons as meatshields with this thought, but most of the benefits from that with shepherd don't come online until 6th level, which is a bit more than I'd suggest unless you wanted to continue forward as a druid. The spell slot progression and totems could give some fine defensive and control options to compliment. However, you would be changing your character concept quite a bit.
Bonus option- offense is the best defense. Sharpshooter against low AC creatures almost ensures that they die. Killing creatures faster means fewer enemies to kill you.
Mobile gives you more speed to and the same mini disengage that swashbuckler has. Plus you can cross difficult terrain no problem.
Many of these options can be mixed and matched. The EK option for fighter would be another that was mentioned and works expand on the fighter benefits mentioned. Shield is a great spell for that as is Magic Missile. Booming Blade or Green Flame Blade give your melee attacks more punch. Just avoid any spells that use your intelligence to make attacks or force saves to avoid problems with your lower int (which is the same advice for the AT rogue).
Much of these tactics are designed for you to slow the ranks and retreat after an attack or two instead of hanging tough.
Finally, Dodge is your friend. With your 15 AC, a +5 attack will hit you on a 10 or better (55% of the time). Dodge forces those attacks to be made at Disadvantage meaning that they'd have to roll that 10 or better twice to succeed, which lowers that success rate to around 30% which is the equivalent of a +5 AC (25% reduction at 5% per AC). This means that you can keep stacking that dex to improve your AC and your offense, dodge when needed to tank, and benefit even more.
Disclaimer: I didn't check the feywanderer subclass to see if anything meshed with it. Consider the bonus actions and other limited resources when considering the advice.
A lizard folk cleric ought to be able to stand on the front line with you, and buff you to be more durable.
Alternatively, you can work with the other spellcasters to see if you can use aoe and control spells to make kiting possible for the whole team.