So i was playing a Rogue/Warlock in a game and he died at lv.6 just last week. The DM said make a new one and we will put you in next week but i had a idea about my character coming back from death as a Full Warlock of the Great Old One. The DM like this idea and said it would be like a different person took over my body and he is Lawful Evil but has most of my characters Memories. Question is i dont really know how to play Lawful Evil around other characters. So any tips would be cool.
It isn't too hard to figure out. Lawful Evil is somebody who still understands discipline, order, and rules. Evil is possibly selfish, harmful, lacking compassion.
Example would be Darth Vader - follows order but blows up planets for information. Longshanks - expects discipline from self and others but will have his archers fire into a melee even if it will kill his own troops. Not kicking random puppies, only the puppies of your foes.
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"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
These people played by the rules, albeit without mercy or compassion, and only obeyed laws out of fear of punishment. While they wouldn't break a promise, they seldom "gave their word" or put themselves on the line, unless it would clearly help them come out ahead. Many lawful evil characters had personal codes of conduct that they self-justifiably circumvented, such as not personally taking a life in cold blood, but had underlings that kill without discretion. These "rules" served their selfish, twisted view on morality.
It can be difficult for a party of mixed alignments to get along, but as long as the group has a clear objective, then you shouldn't have any major problems. As a Lawful Evil character, you "play nice" because you are obligated to, but every decision you make will be self-serving and apathetic to the needs of others.
When it comes time to split loot, you might try to claim more than your share. (You get what you can negotiate, not what is "fair".)
If a child is being beaten on the side of the road, your primary concern is not getting blood splattered on your new cloak. (Other people's problem are their own. Unless you see an opportunity to benefit.)
Your party is a tool for your own success. You understand the value of keeping your companions happy, but you expect fierce loyalty and support in return. (No free lunches.)
The world is cruel, and only the strong survive. Respect your superiors while they are in power, but as soon as they are vulnerable, you are ready to crush them and fill the power vacuum.
Being evil can easily translate to being an "*******", so be careful to walk that line between playing your character and screwing over your friends. Go ahead an step on toes, but build in some weaknesses that the other players can recognize and exploit to keep you in check.
For example, if your Warlock has low intelligence, then they might be a ruthless negotiator, but also really bad at appraising the value of treasure. Unless another player expresses interest in an item, you'll probably demand whatever gold is available, because it's easier to understand. (Once players realize your flaw, they can pretend to be disappointed in the selection, to "trick" you into letting them have what they really want.)
As long as your fellow players know how to manipulate you in-game, then being evil can be endearing, rather than an obstacle.
Lawful Evil is the alignment of the person who knows all the rules and uses them to benefit themselves and harm others. They're the type who gloats at any chance to engage in acts of bureaucratic tyranny against those weaker than themselves. They're believers in the zero-sum game: a victory for themselves requires a loss for someone else. They'll always follow their word but only obey the letter of the contract, never the spirit. They're perfectly happy kicking puppies, but only if they follow protocol while doing so.
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Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
From the Player's Handbook: "Lawful evil (LE) creatures methodically take what they want, within the limits of a code of tradition, loyalty, or order. Devils, blue dragons, and hobgoblins are lawful evil." Think in terms of Organized Crime, as a classic "real world" example.
How your character treats the other members of the party can vary. You're going to want to know who the boss is. You're going to expect those beneath you to obey you. You may consider other party members to be friends and be strictly loyal to them until the end, but even that won't keep you from delivering painful or even fatal punishment to them if they get in the way of you getting what you want.
It’s good your DM is on board, but you should have an out of character chat with the rest of your table. Depending on how evil you end up getting. Make sure you don’t cross any lines that people might find offensive irl. Get out ahead of it so they understand what your trying to do, and so you can stop that sort of thing before your hurt someone (even if you do it accidentally).
Id also say you should keep that door open, and tell them about it. Make sure they know that if you do cross a line, you want them to tell you about it so it doesn’t happen again.
The important thing which previous posts have touched on is that Lawful Evil does not mean you cannot work well with the other party members. LE Warlock is actually a great combination, which I'm currently playing at our table. You can be the face of the group, which suits Lawful Evil greatly. What better way to ensure a course of action when you are calling the shots?
The main thing to understand is that while alignments dictate morality, pc's have objectives that they work towards as a group. Ask the other characters in my group and they would tell you my warlock is pompous, self serving, and uncaring. He's also the one negotiating for the benefit of the party, willing to take on the enemy without remorse, and he follows the plan implicitly.
Kiss up, kick down. The law is the thing that says "I win and everyone else loses." If you were born on third base, tell everyone you hit a triple and do everything in your power to make sure no one else gets born on third base who might take what belongs to you, you're Lawful Evil.
Most Lawful Evil people would be deeply deeply insulted to be told that they're Lawful Evil. They're upholding tradition, or they're playing by the rules, or the rules are wrong because of tradition, or whatever. If the rules need to be upended to preserve their ill-gotten gains or privileges, they do it in a second and tell themselves they're following a 'higher law.'
Palpatine is more of an example of Neutral Evil. He doesn't really care about order or chaos, he just wants to increase the power of the Dark Side.
I disagree since he used his power in the Senate to get himself elected Emperor so he could increase the power of the Dark Side. A very Lawful Evil move, working within the law to subvert the law.
Palpatine is more of an example of Neutral Evil. He doesn't really care about order or chaos, he just wants to increase the power of the Dark Side.
I disagree since he used his power in the Senate to get himself elected Emperor so he could increase the power of the Dark Side. A very Lawful Evil move, working within the law to subvert the law.
Just because he was willing to use the law for his own ends doesn't automatically make him lawful. To Palpatine, getting through the senate was never more than a tool to be used and then discarded once it was no longer needed, same as the Trade Federation or his troops on Endor.
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Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
Palpatine is more of an example of Neutral Evil. He doesn't really care about order or chaos, he just wants to increase the power of the Dark Side.
I disagree since he used his power in the Senate to get himself elected Emperor so he could increase the power of the Dark Side. A very Lawful Evil move, working within the law to subvert the law.
Just because he was willing to use the law for his own ends doesn't automatically make him lawful. To Palpatine, getting through the senate was never more than a tool to be used and then discarded once it was no longer needed, same as the Trade Federation or his troops on Endor.
True, but we wasn't being evil just to be evil. He had a goal for his believes and "society" (the Sith) and worked towards that. So he does show characteristics of both Lawful and Neutral evil. Agree to disagree? :)
Palpatine is more of an example of Neutral Evil. He doesn't really care about order or chaos, he just wants to increase the power of the Dark Side.
I disagree since he used his power in the Senate to get himself elected Emperor so he could increase the power of the Dark Side. A very Lawful Evil move, working within the law to subvert the law.
Just because he was willing to use the law for his own ends doesn't automatically make him lawful. To Palpatine, getting through the senate was never more than a tool to be used and then discarded once it was no longer needed, same as the Trade Federation or his troops on Endor.
Not automatically, but it is an indication. Chaotic would be to assassinate opposition until there was nobody to go against him. Snoke was more chaotic.
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"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
Lawful evil means that you are a villain, but more professional and controlled than say, a rage monster. You kill without feelings, but at least you do so in a professional manner; you don't brutally maul them beyond recognition.
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Rogue Shadow, the DM (and occasional) PC with schemes of inventive thinking
The Old Republic was very much influenced by the Jedi code and principles, and it was a society that valued both Justice (a very Lawful construct) and Freedom (the essence of Chaos). It was a benevolent system, dedicated to promoting peace and prosperity. I'd call it Neutral Good. I think that makes something of a case for the Light Side of the Force to be Neutral Good.
We don't really know much about Palpatine's personal goals and motivations. We don't see a lot of him. We have to judge him by his works. He worked his way into the Senate, climbed the ladder of power by means both fair and foul, and once he got into power, what did he do? He replaced the Republic with an oppressive police state where might makes right and freedom must be crushed at all costs.
Since the Light Side of the Force seems to be neutral in the struggle between Law and Chaos, it stands to reason that the Dark Side of the Force would be similar. This would tend to indicate that Palpatine's very Lawful Empire is so because that's what he wants, and not just because he's a servant of the Dark Side. That's why I think of Palpatine as Lawful Evil.
Alignment is one of those topics that generates page after page of argument, but we are straying wildly out of topic when discussing the Alignment of fictional characters. It isn't going to provide the Original Poster with tips on how to play their Lawful Evil character around their party, no matter how much fun it may be. And yes, I'm just as guilty as anyone else in that respect.
So i was playing a Rogue/Warlock in a game and he died at lv.6 just last week. The DM said make a new one and we will put you in next week but i had a idea about my character coming back from death as a Full Warlock of the Great Old One. The DM like this idea and said it would be like a different person took over my body and he is Lawful Evil but has most of my characters Memories. Question is i dont really know how to play Lawful Evil around other characters. So any tips would be cool.
Michael (or Vito) Corleone from the Godfather would be a good example. He's not actually an unpleasant or mean person but if he has to he won't hesitate to murder people to get what he wants. He's a criminal but he believes in a code and keeping your word. He loves his family but if his brothers go too far he doesn't hesitate to get rid of them either.
If you want a more brutish example then certain versions of the Punisher would qualify. He believs in justice and protecting the innocent but he has no qualms about murder, torture and other horrible things as long as it is done to the right (or wrong, depending on how you look at it) people.
A more villanous example would be the Operative from the Serenity movie or perhaps the Sheriff of Nottingham. Just remember, just because you are evil doesn't mean you have to be an *******.
If you want a more brutish example then certain versions of the Punisher would qualify. He believs in justice and protecting the innocent but he has no qualms about murder, torture and other horrible things as long as it is done to the right (or wrong, depending on how you look at it) people.
A more villanous example would be the Operative from the Serenity movie or perhaps the Sheriff of Nottingham. Just remember, just because you are evil doesn't mean you have to be an *******.
The Operative from Serenity devoted his life to a cause and believed that his actions would make the world a better place, which would make him Lawful Good. Essentially a clandestine Paladin. One can be good and also be wrong. What matters is what you do when you know better. Two "good" parties can still be hostile to one another.
Similarly, Punisher is an anti-hero. He isn't necessarily trying to make the world a better place, but he is trying to compensate for what he perceives as evil, at his own expense. This would likely make him a blood-soaked Neutral.
Insanity and ignorance are amoral qualities that can heavily obscure the almighty "ought".
It's true that "evil" doesn't equate to "*******". Serial killers are often quite charismatic. However, the underlying principle of "evil" is being self-serving at the expense of others, and it's only a matter of time for that other shoe to drop.
Alignment is one of those topics that generates page after page of argument, but we are straying wildly out of topic when discussing the Alignment of fictional characters. It isn't going to provide the Original Poster with tips on how to play their Lawful Evil character around their party, no matter how much fun it may be. And yes, I'm just as guilty as anyone else in that respect.
The idea is to present the OP with examples to draw from. You can explain a subject in a certain way, but if you present a pop culture reference that the person can relate to then the explanation becomes easier to understand.
So given several examples, the OP can draw from these and ask themselves, "What would X do?"
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"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
If you want a more brutish example then certain versions of the Punisher would qualify. He believs in justice and protecting the innocent but he has no qualms about murder, torture and other horrible things as long as it is done to the right (or wrong, depending on how you look at it) people.
A more villanous example would be the Operative from the Serenity movie or perhaps the Sheriff of Nottingham. Just remember, just because you are evil doesn't mean you have to be an *******.
The Operative from Serenity devoted his life to a cause and believed that his actions would make the world a better place, which would make him Lawful Good. Essentially a clandestine Paladin. One can be good and also be wrong. What matters is what you do when you know better. Two "good" parties can still be hostile to one another.
No, since he commited objectively evil acts. He himself even admits that he is not good.
Similarly, Punisher is an anti-hero. He isn't necessarily trying to make the world a better place, but he is trying to compensate for what he perceives as evil, at his own expense. This would likely make him a blood-soaked Neutral.
Besides the fact that you are wrong in that Frank Castle is trying to make the world a better place by "punishing the bad", thus contradicting yourself by claiming that the Operative is good while Frank is not, I was specifically talking about the cases where Frank is show to have gone further down into his madness.
Insanity and ignorance are amoral qualities that can heavily obscure the almighty "ought".
It's true that "evil" doesn't equate to "*******". Serial killers are often quite charismatic. However, the underlying principle of "evil" is being self-serving at the expense of others, and it's only a matter of time for that other shoe to drop.
Not sure what that has anything to with anything, especially not with the topic of the thread but now we know what you think about that.
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So i was playing a Rogue/Warlock in a game and he died at lv.6 just last week. The DM said make a new one and we will put you in next week but i had a idea about my character coming back from death as a Full Warlock of the Great Old One. The DM like this idea and said it would be like a different person took over my body and he is Lawful Evil but has most of my characters Memories. Question is i dont really know how to play Lawful Evil around other characters. So any tips would be cool.
It isn't too hard to figure out. Lawful Evil is somebody who still understands discipline, order, and rules. Evil is possibly selfish, harmful, lacking compassion.
Example would be Darth Vader - follows order but blows up planets for information. Longshanks - expects discipline from self and others but will have his archers fire into a melee even if it will kill his own troops. Not kicking random puppies, only the puppies of your foes.
"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
-Ilyara Thundertale
From Forgotten Realms:
It can be difficult for a party of mixed alignments to get along, but as long as the group has a clear objective, then you shouldn't have any major problems. As a Lawful Evil character, you "play nice" because you are obligated to, but every decision you make will be self-serving and apathetic to the needs of others.
When it comes time to split loot, you might try to claim more than your share. (You get what you can negotiate, not what is "fair".)
If a child is being beaten on the side of the road, your primary concern is not getting blood splattered on your new cloak. (Other people's problem are their own. Unless you see an opportunity to benefit.)
Your party is a tool for your own success. You understand the value of keeping your companions happy, but you expect fierce loyalty and support in return. (No free lunches.)
The world is cruel, and only the strong survive. Respect your superiors while they are in power, but as soon as they are vulnerable, you are ready to crush them and fill the power vacuum.
Being evil can easily translate to being an "*******", so be careful to walk that line between playing your character and screwing over your friends. Go ahead an step on toes, but build in some weaknesses that the other players can recognize and exploit to keep you in check.
For example, if your Warlock has low intelligence, then they might be a ruthless negotiator, but also really bad at appraising the value of treasure. Unless another player expresses interest in an item, you'll probably demand whatever gold is available, because it's easier to understand. (Once players realize your flaw, they can pretend to be disappointed in the selection, to "trick" you into letting them have what they really want.)
As long as your fellow players know how to manipulate you in-game, then being evil can be endearing, rather than an obstacle.
Lawful Evil is the alignment of the person who knows all the rules and uses them to benefit themselves and harm others. They're the type who gloats at any chance to engage in acts of bureaucratic tyranny against those weaker than themselves. They're believers in the zero-sum game: a victory for themselves requires a loss for someone else. They'll always follow their word but only obey the letter of the contract, never the spirit. They're perfectly happy kicking puppies, but only if they follow protocol while doing so.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
From the Player's Handbook: "Lawful evil (LE) creatures methodically take what they want, within the limits of a code of tradition, loyalty, or order. Devils, blue dragons, and hobgoblins are lawful evil." Think in terms of Organized Crime, as a classic "real world" example.
How your character treats the other members of the party can vary. You're going to want to know who the boss is. You're going to expect those beneath you to obey you. You may consider other party members to be friends and be strictly loyal to them until the end, but even that won't keep you from delivering painful or even fatal punishment to them if they get in the way of you getting what you want.
<Insert clever signature here>
It’s good your DM is on board, but you should have an out of character chat with the rest of your table. Depending on how evil you end up getting. Make sure you don’t cross any lines that people might find offensive irl. Get out ahead of it so they understand what your trying to do, and so you can stop that sort of thing before your hurt someone (even if you do it accidentally).
Id also say you should keep that door open, and tell them about it. Make sure they know that if you do cross a line, you want them to tell you about it so it doesn’t happen again.
The important thing which previous posts have touched on is that Lawful Evil does not mean you cannot work well with the other party members. LE Warlock is actually a great combination, which I'm currently playing at our table. You can be the face of the group, which suits Lawful Evil greatly. What better way to ensure a course of action when you are calling the shots?
The main thing to understand is that while alignments dictate morality, pc's have objectives that they work towards as a group. Ask the other characters in my group and they would tell you my warlock is pompous, self serving, and uncaring. He's also the one negotiating for the benefit of the party, willing to take on the enemy without remorse, and he follows the plan implicitly.
Yes, I was going to say Vader. Palpatine as well. Lord Soth from Dragonlance is also a great example.
Palpatine is more of an example of Neutral Evil. He doesn't really care about order or chaos, he just wants to increase the power of the Dark Side.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
Kiss up, kick down. The law is the thing that says "I win and everyone else loses." If you were born on third base, tell everyone you hit a triple and do everything in your power to make sure no one else gets born on third base who might take what belongs to you, you're Lawful Evil.
Most Lawful Evil people would be deeply deeply insulted to be told that they're Lawful Evil. They're upholding tradition, or they're playing by the rules, or the rules are wrong because of tradition, or whatever. If the rules need to be upended to preserve their ill-gotten gains or privileges, they do it in a second and tell themselves they're following a 'higher law.'
I disagree since he used his power in the Senate to get himself elected Emperor so he could increase the power of the Dark Side. A very Lawful Evil move, working within the law to subvert the law.
Just because he was willing to use the law for his own ends doesn't automatically make him lawful. To Palpatine, getting through the senate was never more than a tool to be used and then discarded once it was no longer needed, same as the Trade Federation or his troops on Endor.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
True, but we wasn't being evil just to be evil. He had a goal for his believes and "society" (the Sith) and worked towards that. So he does show characteristics of both Lawful and Neutral evil. Agree to disagree? :)
Not automatically, but it is an indication. Chaotic would be to assassinate opposition until there was nobody to go against him. Snoke was more chaotic.
"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
-Ilyara Thundertale
Lawful evil means that you are a villain, but more professional and controlled than say, a rage monster. You kill without feelings, but at least you do so in a professional manner; you don't brutally maul them beyond recognition.
Rogue Shadow, the DM (and occasional) PC with schemes of inventive thinking
The Old Republic was very much influenced by the Jedi code and principles, and it was a society that valued both Justice (a very Lawful construct) and Freedom (the essence of Chaos). It was a benevolent system, dedicated to promoting peace and prosperity. I'd call it Neutral Good. I think that makes something of a case for the Light Side of the Force to be Neutral Good.
We don't really know much about Palpatine's personal goals and motivations. We don't see a lot of him. We have to judge him by his works. He worked his way into the Senate, climbed the ladder of power by means both fair and foul, and once he got into power, what did he do? He replaced the Republic with an oppressive police state where might makes right and freedom must be crushed at all costs.
Since the Light Side of the Force seems to be neutral in the struggle between Law and Chaos, it stands to reason that the Dark Side of the Force would be similar. This would tend to indicate that Palpatine's very Lawful Empire is so because that's what he wants, and not just because he's a servant of the Dark Side. That's why I think of Palpatine as Lawful Evil.
Alignment is one of those topics that generates page after page of argument, but we are straying wildly out of topic when discussing the Alignment of fictional characters. It isn't going to provide the Original Poster with tips on how to play their Lawful Evil character around their party, no matter how much fun it may be. And yes, I'm just as guilty as anyone else in that respect.
Bad Geann! Bad! Bad! No biscuit!
<Insert clever signature here>
Michael (or Vito) Corleone from the Godfather would be a good example. He's not actually an unpleasant or mean person but if he has to he won't hesitate to murder people to get what he wants. He's a criminal but he believes in a code and keeping your word. He loves his family but if his brothers go too far he doesn't hesitate to get rid of them either.
If you want a more brutish example then certain versions of the Punisher would qualify. He believs in justice and protecting the innocent but he has no qualms about murder, torture and other horrible things as long as it is done to the right (or wrong, depending on how you look at it) people.
A more villanous example would be the Operative from the Serenity movie or perhaps the Sheriff of Nottingham. Just remember, just because you are evil doesn't mean you have to be an *******.
The Operative from Serenity devoted his life to a cause and believed that his actions would make the world a better place, which would make him Lawful Good. Essentially a clandestine Paladin. One can be good and also be wrong. What matters is what you do when you know better. Two "good" parties can still be hostile to one another.
Similarly, Punisher is an anti-hero. He isn't necessarily trying to make the world a better place, but he is trying to compensate for what he perceives as evil, at his own expense. This would likely make him a blood-soaked Neutral.
Insanity and ignorance are amoral qualities that can heavily obscure the almighty "ought".
It's true that "evil" doesn't equate to "*******". Serial killers are often quite charismatic. However, the underlying principle of "evil" is being self-serving at the expense of others, and it's only a matter of time for that other shoe to drop.
The idea is to present the OP with examples to draw from. You can explain a subject in a certain way, but if you present a pop culture reference that the person can relate to then the explanation becomes easier to understand.
So given several examples, the OP can draw from these and ask themselves, "What would X do?"
"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
-Ilyara Thundertale
No, since he commited objectively evil acts. He himself even admits that he is not good.
Besides the fact that you are wrong in that Frank Castle is trying to make the world a better place by "punishing the bad", thus contradicting yourself by claiming that the Operative is good while Frank is not, I was specifically talking about the cases where Frank is show to have gone further down into his madness.
Not sure what that has anything to with anything, especially not with the topic of the thread but now we know what you think about that.